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#948705 --- 01/02/09 07:19 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
SkySoldier Offline
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Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
“As of its Sept. 1, 2008, statement,” the suit alleges, “[National Wholesale Supply’s] outstanding balance, with late payment interest, was $18,451,475.96.”

The lawsuit demands that Native Wholesale pay the owed amount and provide the government the information required by the settlement act. "


!8 million doesn/t seem like so much when trillions are being handed out to the big business elite by our "representatives".
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#950638 --- 01/05/09 10:43 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: SkySoldier]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot



My stats come from the US Census, BIA, NIGC, SBA and Dept. of Labor. Of course their stats are never "current". But from 1989 to 2003 percentage of household income increase for whites was 5%, Asian 6%, Hispanic 7%, Black 17%, and American Indian 32%. From 2000 to 2004 the American Indian population increased 23% from 2.2 to 2.7 million; federal spending on Indian programs increased 58% from $3.6 billion to $5.7 billion ; and tribal revenue from gambling increased 207% from $6.3 billion to $19.4 billion. American Indians moved from 4th to 3rd out of the five ethnic distinctions, ahead of Hispanic and Black.

Lets see - 19.4 billion in just gambling added to $5.7 billion in tax funded freebies = $25.1 billion for 2.7 million American Indians, or $929 million per Indian each YEAR . Even just using the $5.7 billion in taxes comes to $211 Million per Indian per year. This leads me to believe that your statement of the rich getting richer may be true, but your adding "not Native Americans" is false.



-----------------------------------------



The HHS is the Indian Health Service, an agency that serves the needs of the 1.8 million members of the 560 federally recognized tribes. The Indian Health Service has 15,102 employees and in 2008 operated under a budget of $4.3 billion . I.H.S. oversees 46 hospitals, 324 health centers, 309 health stations, and 34 urban Indian health programs.


---------------------------------------


Is the $4.3 billion for the HHS included in the $5.7 billion for federal indian programs?



.
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#954535 --- 01/10/09 05:29 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Duude
Why honor any Treaty now when you never have before?


What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?



.


?????



.
Still waiting?????


Just name one aspect of a treaty that was broken.


.




.













still looking ???????



.


...
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#954539 --- 01/10/09 05:33 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Daily Policy Digest

State & Local Issues / State & Local taxes

Tuesday, January 13, 2004

Once a gambling enriched-tribe acquires land, the new "reservation" becomes a sovereign nation, exempt from all local and state laws, zoning ordinances, labor rules, environmental reviews, and American rules of due process and fair play in law enforcement, says Jan Golab. In addition, the "reservation" and business built on it, including a casino, has complete tax exemption. This policy erodes the local tax base and reduces government revenues.

Because of the numbers of casinos established in California, this poses a serious problem for the state's struggling economy:


In 2002, revenues from newly built casinos in California soared to $5 billion per year -- but the casinos paid virtually nothing to the state.
The Supreme Court has ruled that Indians must collect sales tax from customers who are not Indians, but nearly all tribal businesses ignore this rule, resulting in the undercutting of competing non-Indian businesses.
Although they pay little in taxes, gaming tribes seek to influence the political process -- spending over $120 million to push their candidates and ballot initiatives in recent years. That is more than George W. Bush spent nationwide to be elected President.

The impact is just as grave in other states, says Golab:


In Oklahoma, $580 million in annual sales and property taxes are lost to Indians in the state.




New York lost $895 million in 2002 by failing to collect taxes on cigarettes sold by Indians.




Because of the erosion of state and local tax base, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken on the Indian gaming industry in California and is asking that they contribute 25 percent of their earnings to the state, or approximately $1 billion.

Source: Jan Golab, "Arnold Schwarzenegger Girds For Indian War," American Enterprise, January/February 2004, American Enterprise Institute.

For more on American Enterprise
http://www.taemag.com

For more on State & Local taxes
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/sta/

___________________________________



...
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#960717 --- 01/17/09 08:56 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Paterson to discuss the issue.
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#960747 --- 01/17/09 09:49 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
HarleyBobT Offline
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Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5106
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Paterson to discuss the issue.
Big deal, you must be one big racist, because that's the only thing you whine about is the nations.


Edited by HarleyBobT (01/17/09 09:49 PM)
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#960752 --- 01/17/09 09:53 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Paterson to discuss the issue.
Big deal, you must be one big racist, because that's the only thing you whine about is the nations.


How does wanting everyone to be treated equally make one a racist?
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#966010 --- 01/25/09 12:22 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Paterson to discuss the issue.
Big deal, you must be one big racist, because that's the only thing you whine about is the nations .



Nations?

Tribes!

;\)
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#966011 --- 01/25/09 12:24 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Duude
Why honor any Treaty now when you never have before?

What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?
.

?????
.
Still waiting?????
Just name one aspect of a treaty that was broken.
.




still looking ???????
.

.


Harley can you answer the above question?

.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#966013 --- 01/25/09 12:27 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot



My stats come from the US Census, BIA, NIGC, SBA and Dept. of Labor. Of course their stats are never "current". But from 1989 to 2003 percentage of household income increase for whites was 5%, Asian 6%, Hispanic 7%, Black 17%, and American Indian 32%. From 2000 to 2004 the American Indian population increased 23% from 2.2 to 2.7 million; federal spending on Indian programs increased 58% from $3.6 billion to $5.7 billion ; and tribal revenue from gambling increased 207% from $6.3 billion to $19.4 billion. American Indians moved from 4th to 3rd out of the five ethnic distinctions, ahead of Hispanic and Black.

Lets see - 19.4 billion in just gambling added to $5.7 billion in tax funded freebies = $25.1 billion for 2.7 million American Indians, or $929 million per Indian each YEAR . Even just using the $5.7 billion in taxes comes to $211 Million per Indian per year. This leads me to believe that your statement of the rich getting richer may be true, but your adding "not Native Americans" is false.



Harley how about you send me a yearly check for $929 million?


.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#966194 --- 01/25/09 12:47 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Post-raid sales spike
Store owners say Lake Side closing has made huge difference

By DAVID L. SHAW, Finger Lakes Times
Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:11 AM CST

SENECA FALLS — Cigarette sales have surged for area convenience stores since the Cayuga Indian Nation closed its Seneca Falls store Dec. 10.

Owners of four stores have reported a tripling or quadrupling of business since the tribe’s Lake Shore Trading store on Route 89 closed shortly after a Nov. 25 law enforcement raid seized all of their untaxed cigarettes.

Now, the tribe’s lawyers have been able to get a temporary injunction to prevent criminal tax evasion charges until an appeal of the legality of the raid is decided in May or June. The five-judge state Appellate Division Court that granted the injunction also said the Cayugas could seek to have the seized cigarettes returned, if State Supreme Court Judge Kenneth R. Fisher agrees.

If that happens, the Nation may reopen its store.

And that worries non-Indian convenience store owners who’ve benefited from the closure.

Howard Strader, owner of D & M Grocery Store on Swift Street in Waterloo the past 11 years, said the numbers are startling.

“The increase in our business at this little store has been huge,’’ Strader said.

He said when the Lake Side Trading Store was open and selling untaxed cigarettes at deep discounts, his store sold about 165 cartons of cigarettes a week.

Since they closed, he’s been selling an average of 415 cartons a week. Each carton generates $31.20 in pre-paid state excise tax, plus 8 percent sales tax.

Half of that goes to the state and the other half goes to Seneca County.

“That increase has produced an increase in tax to the state from $5,230 to $13,155 a week, a difference of more than $7,000. That’s for one small neighborhood store,’’ Strader said.

He said tobacco customers who come to his store also end up buying other items — milk, soda, beer, snacks and groceries.

He said lottery sales are flat, speculating that smokers are having to pay more for cigarettes and don’t have that extra cash they might spend on tickets.

Strader said his store did $90,200 worth of business in December 2007. In December 2008, that number jumped to $184,000.

“I’ll be bummed out big time if they reopen the Cayuga store and they continue to sell untaxed cigarettes again,’’ Strader said. He said the Cayugas should either pay the same taxes as he does or not be able to reopen and sell untaxed cigarettes, especially in light of a new law signed by the governor.

Jack Kahn runs the Express Gas Plus Convenience Store on Auburn Road in Seneca Falls.

“I have definitely benefited from the Indian store being closed, as have many others in this area. I’d say cigarette sales alone are triple what they were before the store closed,’’ Kahn said.

Gasoline sales are also up slightly, but cigarette sales have generated more profit and sales tax income for the state and county than ever before.

“It would not be fair if they reopened and go back to doing what the judge has said is illegal all over again,’’ Kahn said.

“If they reopen and pay the taxes like everyone else, I have no problem with that,’’ he said. “Or if they exempt all stores from paying the taxes, which isn’t likely.”

Edward Feek, manager of the Nice N’ Easy convenience store on Fall Street, Seneca Falls, said his cigarette business also has tripled since Dec. 10, with other sales also up slightly.

Robert and Mary Plate took over Jean Jean’s Store on Washington Street in Waterloo 21⁄2 years ago.

Rob Plate said it was never a big volume store while Lake Side Trading was open, making enough to pay the bills and earn a small profit.

“But we’ve done very well since they closed. Cigarette sales in particular,’’ Plate said.

The store did about $300 worth of cigarette sales a week before Dec. 10. It’s been about $1,200 a week since.

“Sales of soda, beer, snacks are also up. Our profits are up. We’re seeing new smokers and smokers who left us to go to the tribe’s store coming back,’’ Plate said.

Daniel French, a lawyer for the Cayuga Nation, said the tribe’s plans for the store, along with a similar store in Union Springs, Cayuga County, may be announced Monday.

Options are to apply to Fisher for an order to return the seized cigarettes or to reach an agreement with Seneca and Cayuga county officials to return the items or buy new stock.

Sheriff’s deputies seized more than 17,000 cartons of untaxed cigarettes in the raids on the two Lake Side Trading stores.

“It would be wrong to go back to the way it was,’’ said Plate. “It’s not a level playing field. We’d lose back what we’ve gained.”

dshaw@fltimes.com
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#968980 --- 01/28/09 03:29 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
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#969158 --- 01/28/09 05:53 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
HarleyBobT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5106
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: bluezone


Would you like a little cheese with your whine...sir.
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Kristin Davis for NY State Governor,a hard working girl and the hottest candidate NY has ever seen.

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#969164 --- 01/28/09 06:01 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
jkjason Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 79
Loc: waterloo
burn any non-tax paying stores to the ground until they comply. that'll get their attention... problem is no one of stature wants to fight the battles the old fashion way anymore... for the most part we let the minority rule our country any more. I am not talking race or nationality... just politics... everyone starts on the same page. no more no less... you pay your dues earn it or lose it on your own merits...

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#969185 --- 01/28/09 06:51 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: jkjason]
HarleyBobT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5106
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: jkjason
burn any non-tax paying stores to the ground until they comply. that'll get their attention... problem is no one of stature wants to fight the battles the old fashion way anymore... for the most part we let the minority rule our country any more. I am not talking race or nationality... just politics... everyone starts on the same page. no more no less... you pay your dues earn it or lose it on your own merits...

What ever!!
_________________________
Kristin Davis for NY State Governor,a hard working girl and the hottest candidate NY has ever seen.

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#969186 --- 01/28/09 06:53 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT

Would you like a little cheese with your whine...sir.



Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot



My stats come from the US Census, BIA, NIGC, SBA and Dept. of Labor. Of course their stats are never "current". But from 1989 to 2003 percentage of household income increase for whites was 5%, Asian 6%, Hispanic 7%, Black 17%, and American Indian 32%. From 2000 to 2004 the American Indian population increased 23% from 2.2 to 2.7 million; federal spending on Indian programs increased 58% from $3.6 billion to $5.7 billion ; and tribal revenue from gambling increased 207% from $6.3 billion to $19.4 billion. American Indians moved from 4th to 3rd out of the five ethnic distinctions, ahead of Hispanic and Black.

Lets see - 19.4 billion in just gambling added to $5.7 billion in tax funded freebies = $25.1 billion for 2.7 million American Indians, or $929 million per Indian each YEAR . Even just using the $5.7 billion in taxes comes to $211 Million per Indian per year. This leads me to believe that your statement of the rich getting richer may be true, but your adding "not Native Americans" is false.




Harley how about you send me a yearly check for $929 million?

Or is it in the mail



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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#969188 --- 01/28/09 06:55 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT
Originally Posted By: jkjason
burn any non-tax paying stores to the ground until they comply. that'll get their attention... problem is no one of stature wants to fight the battles the old fashion way anymore... for the most part we let the minority rule our country any more. I am not talking race or nationality... just politics... everyone starts on the same page. no more no less... you pay your dues earn it or lose it on your own merits...

What ever!!


But if the tribes shot at NY troopers or burn tires then that is allowable.


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#969199 --- 01/28/09 07:18 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
HarleyBobT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5106
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT
Originally Posted By: jkjason
burn any non-tax paying stores to the ground until they comply. that'll get their attention... problem is no one of stature wants to fight the battles the old fashion way anymore... for the most part we let the minority rule our country any more. I am not talking race or nationality... just politics... everyone starts on the same page. no more no less... you pay your dues earn it or lose it on your own merits...

What ever!!


But if the tribes shot at NY troopers or burn tires then that is allowable.



I'm not letting you suck me into your hatred pal... Give it up, that's all you talk about. You sound like a little kid that think's they got shorted a piece of candy... put a cork in it.
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Kristin Davis for NY State Governor,a hard working girl and the hottest candidate NY has ever seen.

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#969255 --- 01/28/09 09:40 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Is the Supreme Court ruling AGAINST the cayugas due to hate?
Read the Sherrill decision in which the cayugas lost.

Is Michael Bloomberg going after the tribes due to hate?
Or is it because what the tribe is doing is ILLEGAL?

ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL



NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City sued eight Native American reservation stores on Long Island for not collecting the city's cigarette taxes, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said on Monday, demanding the governor enforce the law .

The anti-smoking independent who first developed a national reputation by banning smoking in bars and restaurants, equated cigarettes to murder and said Gov. David Paterson should use the state police and the national guard to collect the taxes.

"I think the governor should go to the reservation and say 'As of tomorrow morning, we are stopping this practice,' and if it requires law enforcement, that's what the governor has the state police for," Bloomberg said.

One reason New York City charges among the highest U.S. cigarette taxes is to encourage smokers to quit, and the mayor noted that kids respond quickly to changes in prices.

"This kills people; it isn't that far-fetched to compare the two," Bloomberg told reporters, drawing a parallel between smoking and murder. A carton of 200 cigarettes can cost as much as $70 and around half of that price is taxes, a city official said.

New York City can only seize cigarettes that lack tax stamps within its borders. The Poospatuck Reservation is located in Mastic, about 65 miles east of New York City on Long Island, and the city filed its suit in the federal court for New York's eastern district, seeking to force the tribe to collect taxes.

A tribal official was not immediately available. Nor were spokesman for the Democratic governor, the Republican Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos, who last week said the state must collect these taxes to help close its deficit, and Democratic Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver.

New York's Native American tribes say their immunity from taxes springs from their status as sovereign nations. For more than a decade they have blocked the state's attempts to enforce the collection of cigarette taxes from reservation convenience stores despite a series of court battles and legislation.

Perhaps the last serious enforcement effort dates back to 1997, when former Republican Gov George Pataki backed down after 12 state troopers were injured during tire-burning protests by two upstate tribes.

Seeking to demonstrate how widespread the practice of reservation stores selling cigarettes to non-Native Americans has become, city spokesman Jason Post estimated that the stores on the Poospatuck Reservation sell 960 packs of cigarettes per day for each of the 260 tribal residents.

New York City says the tribal stores' failure to collect city cigarette taxes cost it $195 million a year. The city and state together lose $720 million a year in tax revenue from reservation sales.

A new federal law strengthens New York City's case because it makes it clear that states and local governments can bring these types of lawsuits, a city official said. He noted the city can take advantage of this provision, unlike a previous and largely unsuccessful lawsuit by a grocery store chain, which argued that the tribal stores were unfairly competing by not charging taxes.

Like the state, the city also must close a big hole in next year's budget, and Bloomberg noted that Wall Street will owe few taxes for several years, as banks and brokerages carry forward huge losses. (Reporting by Joan Gralla; Additional reporting by Edith Honan; Editing by Tom Hals)
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#969257 --- 01/28/09 09:42 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: HarleyBobT]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33253
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT
I'm not letting you suck me into your hatred pal... Give it up, that's all you talk about. You sound like a little kid that think's they got shorted a piece of candy... put a cork in it.



200 year land claims??????



So tell me Harley are the tribes "sovereign"??

?????
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