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#995985 --- 03/17/09 04:37 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: Della]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Judge: NYC suit against Mastic smoke shops can proceedBY ROBERT E. KESSLER | robert.kessler@newsday.com
March 17, 2009
A federal judge ruled yesterday that New York City can continue a lawsuit seeking nearly $200 million in back cigarette taxes from eight smoke shops on the Poospatuck Indian Reservation in Mastic.

The city claims that by selling huge quantities of untaxed cigarettes in the five boroughs, the smoke shops are a major source of cheap, bootlegged cigarettes.

In her ruling rejecting arguments by the smoke shops, U.S. District Judge Carol Amon in Brooklyn said the shops are not sovereign Indian entities and might be compelled to follow state and city law on the sale of cigarettes. She further said the shops could be sued under federal law because the reservation is not recognized as Indian land.

But Amon's ruling also said that however the overall issue of tribal sovereignty might be decided in the courts, the smoke shops are not integral parts of the tribe. The profits from the smoke shops do not go to the tribe itself, but to the shops' owners, Amon said.



The city sued the eight smoke shops in 2008, claiming that the untaxed cigarettes sold by them deprived the city of $195 million in taxes and the state of $525 million. Indian residents of reservations are permitted to purchase untaxed cigarettes for their own use. In its suit the city said that the eight shops had sold almost 24 million cartons of untaxed cigarettes since 2004, or 19,200 each day for the 300 residents of the 55-acre reservation.

"The $195 million in uncollected cigarette tax revenue we are suing to collect could be used to modernize a public hospital, or hire nearly 3,000 new police officers, firefighters or teachers," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said yesterday. "As we all pull together to do more with less, it's just grossly unfair to hardworking taxpayers to allow any company to shirk their responsibilities."

Leo Barnes, lead defense attorney for the smoke shops and who represents the Smoke and Rolls shop, said yesterday he had not read the suit and could not comment. Dan Nobel, attorney for another shop being sued, the Peace Pipe, also said he could not comment because he had not read the decision.

But Harry Wallace, chief of the Unkechaug Indians who live on the reservation, yesterday called the decision "the first in a long litigious history. Ultimately, our legitimate business entities will prevail."

The next hearing in the city's suit is scheduled for May.
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#996072 --- 03/17/09 08:11 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
SilverFox Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6483
Loc: Waterloo
[quote=bluezone]

But Harry Wallace, chief of the Unkechaug Indians who live on the reservation, yesterday called the decision "the first in a long litigious history. Ultimately, our legitimate business entities will prevail."



Another Indian out of touch with reality. The decision was already handed down by the U.S. Supreme Court in favor of the States.
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#996422 --- 03/18/09 06:45 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: SilverFox]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
Another Indian out of touch with reality. The decision was already handed down by the U.S. Supreme Court in favor of the States.


It seems the only time the tribe "gets it" is when the smokeshops are raided.


.
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#999261 --- 03/25/09 09:39 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
"This has been a problem for 30-years and what we think we're going to do is look at our department of taxation in terms of creating a way in which those who do business with those entities will not get, in other words, cooperation from New York state. Because it's killing our small businesses ," the Governor said.


Keep side steping the issue Mr. Paterson.
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#999747 --- 03/26/09 09:22 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
FELONY charges.
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#1000258 --- 03/27/09 03:04 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: RedGreen]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: RedGreen

Actually, it`s been moved up to April 3rd.

"The Cayugas have appealed that decision, and an appellate court will hear the case on April 3. The case was originally scheduled for a hearing in late May."

http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2009/03/05/local_news/news03.txt



Do they really want to hear the verdict?
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#1001228 --- 03/30/09 07:14 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Paterson needs to act.
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#1001901 --- 03/31/09 01:40 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot

No replies yet? I even cited a link earlier where one can research all the treaties.

LaughinWillow Are you going to honor their original treaties? No?
LW - you are full of bunk. Cite ANY treaty phrase in ANY treaty with a New York tribe that has been broken except by the tribes themselves!

LaughinWillow I can compile a list, but I feel like this is pretty common knowledge.
LW - You cannot compile one phrase in one treaty and obviously have no common knowledge. Your common knowledge is based on the Big Lie theory.

EVERY act of Congress supersedes a treaty.

EVERY ruling by SCOTUS applies to the whole country and also supersedes treaties.

A treaty being the law of the land is no different than any other law.

Tribes are wards of the federal government. Tribal members are citizens of the U.S. AND the State in which they reside.

The only treaties ever broken in New York were broken by the tribes.

Honor the treaties? Remit the sales and excise taxes. SCOTUS has ruled that such exclusion was not and is not in any treaty. It would not matter if these were reservation lands. These same tax laws apply.


LaughinWillow failed to give any valid reply.
Say it ain't so..................


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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1002513 --- 04/01/09 01:20 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: SkySoldier]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
How many times must we "give back" what we already paid for ... how many times?

And to whom do we give it to?


Since the legitimate tribe is in Canada .... and has been for 300 years.


good question.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1002910 --- 04/02/09 06:59 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Judge: NYC suit against Mastic smoke shops can proceedBY ROBERT E. KESSLER | robert.kessler@newsday.com
March 17, 2009
A federal judge ruled yesterday that New York City can continue a lawsuit seeking nearly $200 million in back cigarette taxes from eight smoke shops on the Poospatuck Indian Reservation in Mastic.

The city claims that by selling huge quantities of untaxed cigarettes in the five boroughs, the smoke shops are a major source of cheap, bootlegged cigarettes.

In her ruling rejecting arguments by the smoke shops, U.S. District Judge Carol Amon in Brooklyn said the shops are not sovereign Indian entities and might be compelled to follow state and city law on the sale of cigarettes. She further said the shops could be sued under federal law because the reservation is not recognized as Indian land.

But Amon's ruling also said that however the overall issue of tribal sovereignty might be decided in the courts, the smoke shops are not integral parts of the tribe. The profits from the smoke shops do not go to the tribe itself, but to the shops' owners, Amon said.



The city sued the eight smoke shops in 2008, claiming that the untaxed cigarettes sold by them deprived the city of $195 million in taxes and the state of $525 million. Indian residents of reservations are permitted to purchase untaxed cigarettes for their own use. In its suit the city said that the eight shops had sold almost 24 million cartons of untaxed cigarettes since 2004, or 19,200 each day for the 300 residents of the 55-acre reservation.

"The $195 million in uncollected cigarette tax revenue we are suing to collect could be used to modernize a public hospital, or hire nearly 3,000 new police officers, firefighters or teachers," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said yesterday. "As we all pull together to do more with less, it's just grossly unfair to hardworking taxpayers to allow any company to shirk their responsibilities."

Leo Barnes, lead defense attorney for the smoke shops and who represents the Smoke and Rolls shop, said yesterday he had not read the suit and could not comment. Dan Nobel, attorney for another shop being sued, the Peace Pipe, also said he could not comment because he had not read the decision.

But Harry Wallace, chief of the Unkechaug Indians who live on the reservation, yesterday called the decision "the first in a long litigious history. Ultimately, our legitimate business entities will prevail."

The next hearing in the city's suit is scheduled for May.

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1006859 --- 04/09/09 06:06 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Tobacco profits to go up in smoke?
Updated: 04/09/2009 05:53 AM
By: Britt Godshalk

ALBANY, N.Y. -- "It is just ludicrous," said Jim Calvin, the president of the New York Association of Convenient Stores. "How can the state justify increasing a fee on any small business by 900 percent or 4,900 percent?"

The folks at NYACS have smoke coming out of their ears. The cost to sell cigarettes in New York just went from $100 annually per store, to $1000, $2,500, even $5,000, depending on the store's gross sales of all products.

"Many of them are going to make the calculation that it's not worth it," said Calvin. “And actually the goal of this higher fee."

In a statement, the state Department of Budget said, "This public health initiative will help decrease the availability of tobacco products, which cost the lives of thousands of New Yorkers each year. Additionally, it will provide critical resources to fund health care programs."

Tobacco profits to go up in smoke?
A measure passed in this year's state budget has sparked a hot debate, this time over an increase to the state's fee on cigarette and tobacco retailers. Our Britt Godshalk takes a look.

"To say that if our stores have to stop selling tobacco, there won't be any more tobacco and people won't have access to it, no, that's baloney. They are just going to go to these unregulated outlets that are beyond the reach of New York State Regulation and Taxation," said Calvin.

"Whether it's a guy on the street in NYC, or the Internet, Native Americans, even Vermont," said Christian King, who owns a chain of convenience stores in the Albany area. "We're pushing people towards these alternative sources."

"Those customers who stop coming through the door, not only are they not buying tobacco products any longer, but they aren't buying other products either, a soda, a coffee, a newspaper," said Calvin.

NYACS says many customers who come in to buy cigarettes pick up a lottery ticket on the way out as well, but if they don't come in to buy cigarettes, they won't buy lottery tickets either. The lottery provides dollars for the state education budget, dollars that NYACS says will now go up in smoke.

"Even as little of a one percent drop in lottery sales would translate to a loss of more revenue than this license fee increase would generate," said Calvin. "So the state has done its homework on how this is going to impact the budget as a whole."

The fees will come due in September.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


copyright 2008 TWEAN News Channel of Syracuse, LLC, d/b/a News 10 Now.
All Rights Reserved.





Paterson are you for REAL?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1006865 --- 04/09/09 06:17 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot

No replies yet? I even cited a link earlier where one can research all the treaties.

LaughinWillow Are you going to honor their original treaties? No?
LW - you are full of bunk. Cite ANY treaty phrase in ANY treaty with a New York tribe that has been broken except by the tribes themselves!

LaughinWillow I can compile a list, but I feel like this is pretty common knowledge.
LW - You cannot compile one phrase in one treaty and obviously have no common knowledge. Your common knowledge is based on the Big Lie theory.

EVERY act of Congress supersedes a treaty.

EVERY ruling by SCOTUS applies to the whole country and also supersedes treaties.

A treaty being the law of the land is no different than any other law.

Tribes are wards of the federal government. Tribal members are citizens of the U.S. AND the State in which they reside.

The only treaties ever broken in New York were broken by the tribes.

Honor the treaties? Remit the sales and excise taxes. SCOTUS has ruled that such exclusion was not and is not in any treaty. It would not matter if these were reservation lands. These same tax laws apply.

LaughinWillow failed to give any valid reply.
Say it ain't so..................

Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
my name really is BJ Radford and I really am the Chief Operating Officer of LakeSide Enterprises, the Cayuga Nation's business arm...

Originally Posted By: BJ Radford

Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
So.......in regards to the Treaty of Canandaigua, NYS has not broken it.

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1006869 --- 04/09/09 06:29 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4613
Loc: New York State
Our politicians learned nothing from prohibition. Here they are creating similar conditions that led to those many years of lawlessness. You think our cost for law enforcement is high now, give it time.


Then again, maybe they did learn from those days and decided they can line their pockets and still appear to be a crusader for the public good.

Politicians are also trying to add an obesity tax on sodas.

What next, a tax on beef because meat adds to our cholestral and leads to heart attack? How about charging a fee to farmers for raising these products? Just think of the lives that will be saved and how much cholestral tests are adding to our health costs?

Do any of you wonder why the Indians are fighting so hard to gain tax free status to profit from all of this?

I know,this is getting off topic, yet there seems to be a pattern here.

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#1006881 --- 04/09/09 06:44 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
If they collect the tribal taxes then the other taxes would not have to increase.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1007342 --- 04/10/09 07:30 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA

UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1011902 --- 04/20/09 08:47 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: grinch
Do any of you wonder why the Indians are fighting so hard to gain tax free status to profit from all of this?


Is it not about the land as they so "claim"?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1013231 --- 04/22/09 04:44 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone

UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND



More money to the county every day.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1042115 --- 06/23/09 02:10 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
How many times must we "give back" what we already paid for ... how many times?

And to whom do we give it to?


Since the legitimate tribe is in Canada .... and has been for 300 years.



good question.


BJR - how about a reply?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1042118 --- 06/23/09 02:35 PM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: bluezone]
HarleyBobT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5106
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: bluezone

UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND



Nice spam job idiot..
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Kristin Davis for NY State Governor,a hard working girl and the hottest candidate NY has ever seen.

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#1042362 --- 06/24/09 04:43 AM Re: LAKE SIDE TRADING STORES ARE CLOSED [Re: HarleyBobT]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HarleyBobT
Originally Posted By: bluezone

UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND
UNITED WE STAND



Nice spam job idiot..


Is that what our forefathers meant by the statement?
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