FingerLakes1.com Forums
Page 6 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#1005001 --- 04/06/09 08:20 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: HighC]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: HighC
I was posting to this topic and haven't participated in a couple of days. Why? Because I have been evaluating the posts by BJRadford. I was surprised that she would take the approach of posting here.

I have talked with the real BJ, she is a very direct and knowledgeable businesswoman. The posts on this thread are somewhat knowledgeable but are very coy, NOT the directness or knowledge that she would have. Posts are usually reflections of someone's personality.

It's really me! Anyone who wonders - call me at 568-6457 and I will verify - tough to escpe this gravelly voice I have! Thanks for the compliment.

I would agree that my posts are somewhat guarded. I have stated, I run the risk of posters thinking I speak for the Nation, which I do not. I'm sure you can understand. If you worked for a controversial company would you not think carefully before posting about them?

I also, again as I have already said, really think that this is a great opportunity for people to voice their opinions and maybe even vent. I don't feel a need to do either.

I have been frustrated over the years at the assumptions people make about the Nation. What I percieve to be a lack of desire to learn the facts, just a willingness to assume that because they disagree with the Nation's position, the Nation must do everything wrong (at least in their opinion!) I entered the forum to hadle those issues.

I have learned things as a result of my involvement here, which I am always anxious to do, and for that I thank the posters. The thing I do find frustrating about this arena is the anonymity of the posters. I realize that's the point, but I am a direct person - I'd be happy to know anyone's identity who is willing to offer their's up!


I do believe that the poster is employed by by the Cayugas, but not the real BJRadford.

JMHO. I will retract my statement and verify that it is the true BJRadford if challenged. I do not believe this is a violation of this sites terms of use because this poster is representing to be a real persons identity.

Top
FingerLakes1.com
#1005003 --- 04/06/09 08:23 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I guess I would rather wait for the Appellate's court decision on that than take your opinion. Your opinions, although I generally feel come from a well researched position, are not relevant as it relates to my employer/employee relationship.


I owe you an apology. in the rereading, my post sounds a little snappy. Not my intention. The content is true but my delivery wasn't great. I was in a hurry and didn't choose my words well.

Top
#1005301 --- 04/06/09 04:51 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I suppose that depends on what your definition of sales tax is.
I believe SCOTUS defined what the definition of sales tax was when the state won the right to collect those taxes at tribal businesses.



BJR must have missed that SCOTUS decision.


Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
The feds can't take state sovereign lands without the state's permission.


There should be no reason for NY to give up NY land.

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#1005303 --- 04/06/09 04:55 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Originally Posted By: bluezone
BJR - Currently Lakeside is unable to sell cigarettes per the ruling by the judge. Should the same apply to the gas as sales taxes are not being paid by the tribe either and the land is not in trust?


I do not agree with Judge Fisher's ruling so I would tell you the Cayugas should be able to sell cigs, gas and other items as they have in the past, free of state excise and sales tax.


Then you must also not agree with the SCOTUS decison regarding Sherrill. Land purchased by the tribe is not sovereign land.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#1005624 --- 04/07/09 08:26 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
BJ: "I do not believe that my employer has asked me to do anything illegal."

Big mistake.



Did she read the Sherrill ruling? ;\)
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#1006010 --- 04/07/09 06:12 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Originally Posted By: HighC
I was posting to this topic and haven't participated in a couple of days. Why? Because I have been evaluating the posts by BJRadford. I was surprised that she would take the approach of posting here.

I have talked with the real BJ, she is a very direct and knowledgeable businesswoman. The posts on this thread are somewhat knowledgeable but are very coy, NOT the directness or knowledge that she would have. Posts are usually reflections of someone's personality.

It's really me! Anyone who wonders - call me at 568-6457 and I will verify - tough to escpe this gravelly voice I have! Thanks for the compliment.

I would agree that my posts are somewhat guarded. I have stated, I run the risk of posters thinking I speak for the Nation, which I do not. I'm sure you can understand. If you worked for a controversial company would you not think carefully before posting about them?

I also, again as I have already said, really think that this is a great opportunity for people to voice their opinions and maybe even vent. I don't feel a need to do either.

I have been frustrated over the years at the assumptions people make about the Nation. What I percieve to be a lack of desire to learn the facts, just a willingness to assume that because they disagree with the Nation's position, the Nation must do everything wrong (at least in their opinion!) I entered the forum to hadle those issues.

I have learned things as a result of my involvement here, which I am always anxious to do, and for that I thank the posters. The thing I do find frustrating about this arena is the anonymity of the posters. I realize that's the point, but I am a direct person - I'd be happy to know anyone's identity who is willing to offer their's up!


I do believe that the poster is employed by by the Cayugas, but not the real BJRadford.

JMHO. I will retract my statement and verify that it is the true BJRadford if challenged. I do not believe this is a violation of this sites terms of use because this poster is representing to be a real persons identity.

It would have been nice if you could have separated your post and HighC's post, no worries, I figured it out.

I'll be honest, for as much I post on here about the Cayugas, to some (Harley, Izzy, RG, reilly, and others) it really sounds like I hate them and as some would say - RACIST!

It's not that. . .its just the way you (BJ) and your company come across. Just a few points that make me feel this way:

-I honestly cant see where your millions of $$$ in profit has helped any tribe members besides the top level tribal government leaders. Let's not forget the lawyers, you have provided an outstanding paycheck for all the lawyers you keep busy. I cant even keep track of all lawyers you hire, as I hear a different names all the time.

-The only reason you push so hard for a reservation status is to continue selling cigs and gas.

-Everything is about the handouts and taxbreaks, the tribal governments are always looking for the next handout or the next tax break. Dont get me wrong, I feel overtaxed but I do understand that taxes are needed for this country to survive (the tax money that is wasted is another story). If you dont understand how come taxes are needed. . .good luck driving to Rochester or Syracuse on any highway as a bridge might be rusted out and your car goes careening off the edge.

-The tribal governments never seem concerned with their heritage until it comes time for payback of what happened 200 years ago.

-I know people that have a strong native american heritage and they choose not to live on a res or be part of this give-me give-me look for hand outs and tax break operation. They live normal lives, work normal jobs and they pay what the government tells them to pay.

-I could support your stance on the outrages taxes IF you werent putting so much time and effort into making it about a select group of people. This select group of people isnt even native americans-it's TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS!

-Many of the people on this forum that support the so called "tax free right" of the tribal governments only do so because it saves them money on cigs. If the tribal govs sold only tax free dreamcatchers, I am willing to bet your support wouldnt even be HALF of what it is. This probably wouldnt even be in court if dreamcatchers were being sold. You know cigs and gas are a hot item and know the profits are OUT OF SIGHT-this is what fuels the Cayugas drive and financial means of fighting this in court.

-I am surprised the tribal governments dont open stores that sell fireworks as they are 200% sure they are right that NYS laws do not apply to them

-The world has changed immensely in 200 years. Doctors and scientist had little knowledge on the side effects of smoking. This is 2009, a lot has changed and we are less ignorant of many things. I really think its time the native american tribal governments join the rest of society IN 2009, not the 1700's.

Top
#1006164 --- 04/07/09 10:57 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
BJ: "I do not believe that my employer has asked me to do anything illegal."

Big mistake.



Did she read the Sherrill ruling? ;\)
She gets paid to not know.

Hopefully the judges will read the Sherrill ruling before they issue a decision.

Top
#1006200 --- 04/08/09 03:56 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
BJ: "I do not believe that my employer has asked me to do anything illegal."

Big mistake.



Did she read the Sherrill ruling? ;\)


Yes she did. My interpretation of that ruling is that it dealt with the issue of sovereignty - not reservation status. The issues currently before the Appellate court deal with 471E and reservation status. I was in court Friday and I don't recall anyone using the word sovereignty. How do you see the Sherrill decision as relevant?

Top
#1006201 --- 04/08/09 04:07 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SFisWonderful]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
I agree I should have separated my post from High C's. I just can't figure out how to do it! Not the best at figuring the buttons out!

I have not called one person on these posts a racist.

I agree the county, like every other, needs tax revenue to survive. One of the reasons I am so pro-settlement. I believe the settlement offer of two years ago provided more revenue to the county than they could ever have expected to collect in property taxes from the involved properties.

I agree that way too much money is being paid to lawyers here - both Nation and county lawyers.

I disagree that only tribal leaders benefit. I have seen many benefits Cayugas benefit from the Nation's business revenues.

Every Cayuga I know is very interested in their heritage.

I agree that if we sold only tax free dreamcatchers business would be drastically reduced and we wouldn't be in court. The reason we wouldn't be in court is because the counties would never have bothered to raid the stores.

Top
#1006310 --- 04/08/09 06:34 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Yes she did. My interpretation of that ruling is that it dealt with the issue of sovereignty - not reservation status. The issues currently before the Appellate court deal with 471E and reservation status. I was in court Friday and I don't recall anyone using the word sovereignty. How do you see the Sherrill decision as relevant?


Did the Sherrill ruling state that the tribes cannot buy land and call it sovereign/establish a reservation?
If the smokeshops are on a reservation then why does the tribe pay property taxes on them?
471e states that the tribe must pay the sales taxes (collect and remit per your words) for non-native purchases.
You also stated that the tribe closed their bingo hall because the county passed a law against it. Is that how reservation land operates by the rules of the county?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#1006322 --- 04/08/09 07:20 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I agree I should have separated my post from High C's. I just can't figure out how to do it! Not the best at figuring the buttons out!

To reply to someone, push "quote" rather than "reply" to show their message in your message. I think you are already doing that. Then just be sure you only type your reply after the last word {/quote} in brackets in their message.

Once you figure this out I can explain how to include only part of their message but that is a little tricker as you often see posters on here messing that up.

_________________________
http://www.nocayugalandintotrust.net

Top
#1006326 --- 04/08/09 07:27 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: trump]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: trump
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I agree I should have separated my post from High C's. I just can't figure out how to do it! Not the best at figuring the buttons out!

To reply to someone, push "quote" rather than "reply" to show their message in your message. I think you are already doing that. Then just be sure you only type your reply after the last word {/quote} in brackets in their message.

Once you figure this out I can explain how to include only part of their message but that is a little tricker as you often see posters on here messing that up.

Thanks trump. Let's see if it worked!

Top
#1006327 --- 04/08/09 07:27 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford

I have seen many benefits Cayugas benefit from the Nation's business revenues.


Is that why the Cayuga's had to ask the Federal Government for HUD money to build them a housing complex?

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#1006607 --- 04/08/09 05:04 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
What you fail to understand/acknowledge is the fact that SCOTUS already ruled the states have a right to collect sales tax on sales to non-Natives regardless of whether it is on a reservation or not. That means even if the Cayugas had a reservation they would still be liable for the sales tax collection and payment to the state. The highest court in the U.S. already ruled. How can they continue to appeal? There is no where else to appeal.

As for Sovereignty, that only applies to sales to members of the Cayuga tribe, not all members of other tribes. Example: an Onandaga Indian goes to the Seneca Reservation and buys cigarettes he/she has to pay the sales tax. That same Onandaga Indian goes to his own Onandaga reservation he can buy cigarettes tax free. Sovereignty is specific to each reservation and grants the right to that paticular tribe to conduct it's own business and tribal governmental affairs within the boundries of their own reservation with only their own tribe members without interference. Off their reservation they are subject to the same laws the rest of us have to follow regardless of the fact they are Native American. I hope I explained that clearly enough to be understood. Sovereignty is not as broad based, do whatever you want to because you are Native American, as people believe.

As for wasting money in court, it is the Cayugas that are responsible for that because they will not accept SCOTUS decisions and continue to disobey the law. They would only be sovereign on their own reservation (which was a NYS reservation and they sold it back to NYS 200 years ago) or on Trust Land which they don't have at this time. It is the opinion of many that they do not meet the qualifications for Trust Land because they never had a FederalReservation.
_________________________



Top
#1006630 --- 04/08/09 06:16 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SilverFox]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Great thread, SilverFox. East to read and very informative.
_________________________
http://www.nocayugalandintotrust.net

Top
#1006872 --- 04/09/09 06:36 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SilverFox]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
What you fail to understand/acknowledge is the fact that SCOTUS already ruled the states have a right to collect sales tax on sales to non-Natives regardless of whether it is on a reservation or not...


Some will just never understand....
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#1006965 --- 04/09/09 10:25 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Not because they can't understand. It is because they don't want to understand.
_________________________



Top
#1006966 --- 04/09/09 10:28 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SilverFox]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
What you fail to understand/acknowledge is the fact that SCOTUS already ruled the states have a right to collect sales tax on sales to non-Natives regardless of whether it is on a reservation or not. That means even if the Cayugas had a reservation they would still be liable for the sales tax collection and payment to the state. The highest court in the U.S. already ruled. How can they continue to appeal? There is no where else to appeal.


Why I don't understand is if this is the case why our elected officals don't enforce the law? Isn't that why we elected them?
_________________________
http://www.nocayugalandintotrust.net

Top
#1006973 --- 04/09/09 10:48 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: trump]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
I think it is because years ago when the governor tried to enforce it the Indians burned tires on the thruway. It was easier to let it slide then to enforce it. Just like a parent that doesn't discipline a child.

Personally, I don't agree with the coupon system either. I see too much room for abuse of a coupon system. I think it should be done strictly by tribal membership cards like it is done in California. These tribes know how many registered tribe members they have. They should be required to submitt these registers to the state and ID cards issued on those names only.
_________________________



Top
#1006979 --- 04/09/09 11:13 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SilverFox]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
I think it is because years ago when the governor tried to enforce it the Indians burned tires on the thruway. It was easier to let it slide then to enforce it. Just like a parent that doesn't discipline a child.

A lot of people are upset about the current NY state budget. If they all got together and burned some tires and said they were not going to file state income tax returns for this year, what would happen? They would all be charged with a crime for not filing income tax returns. I don't see where the Indians have some much more power than the rest of us. It just baffles me that they have got away with this for so long.
_________________________
http://www.nocayugalandintotrust.net

Top
Page 6 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >