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#1003253 --- 04/02/09 08:48 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SFisWonderful]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SFisWonderful
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I'm a fan of jest myself. Just how did I express surprise?


there are facial icons above were you type your post. Pick any expression you desire. \:\) \:\( \:D ;\)


Thanks - technology is not my strongest suit.

I would say public relations isnt as well, this also applies to the Cayuga Nations, especially with a hothead like Alcott making bold statements. How do you expect public support acting bold and brassy?

YOU are the one that came on here and announced yourself as the chief operating officer of the Cayuga Nation. By doing that, you put yourself in the position of representing the Cayuga Nation and not your own ideas.

FACT:
Lakeside Trading stores and Pullens are not on reservations. As I said before, the simple act of buying a business from someone who followed all applicable NYS laws does not make the land sovereign.

FACT:
You have said pullens COLLECTS and REMITS all NYS sales tax and Lakeside Trading stores do not.

Questions:
-Why would the Cayuga Nation make such a big deal about following the laws for Lakeside but comply with the laws for Pullens?

-You stated they pay and remit NYS sales tax for Pullens, what about the Cayuga County portion?

-Are all the lawsuits about making absurd profits on gas and cigs? If not, then why doesnt Lakeside Trading stores follow the laws as you do with Pullens Towing and Repair? Neither are reservations, as you know, your a smart woman BJ.

Just My Opinions:
-I feel as though the lawsuits and your fight for a sovereign nation are only about making ridiculous profits on gas and cigs.
-The Cayuga Nation could give two craps about its ancestoral heritage as they are exploiting their ancestory to the max in the name of money.
-I would be ashamed to work for such a company, the Cayuga Nation's pity-me ploy has wore out its welcome with many.
-Why do the tribal governments feel the need to keep its people confined to a reservation. There isnt any laws stating they cant join society and make their own way.


Admittedly neither technology or public relations are my strong suits. Developing and operating businesses is, which is what I get paid to do. I have learned accurately citing people's words is not yours. Let's take this one at a time:

Public support has never been my goal by participating here. I will say, for the umpteenth time, my goal has been to provide facts. So to answer your question - no I don't expect it - I don't even solicit it.

I never "announced" myself as Chief Operating Officer. I believe I created a user name that is my name. I verified my name and position, as I recall, because YOU pointed it out. More a confirmation than an announcement.

Thanks for calling me smart. You seem smart as well. Smart enough to know that I will not answers most of your questions. The one I will answer is that Pullens collects and remits sales tax. NYS's portion as well as the county's.

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#1003279 --- 04/02/09 09:30 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Well that's sad! You proved RedGreen wrong as he said you could bring something to the table. I was really looking forward to having my questions answered. I guess I will have to wait to see how the court feels as to what can and cant be done on reservation land, what/where reservations are, and if the Cayuga Nation legally exist.

JMO:
If your job is to develop and operate business you do a poor job at it, and that is giving you a compliment and stating it nicely.

My understanding of developing and operating is to keep the negative PR to a minimum and the good PR to a maximum. As you dont/wont answer questions, I can only ask myself and the OPINIONS of others, why spend so much time on the business of selling cigs and gas tax free? Would the native americans ancestors be proud of this? Is this what the native american culture represents? I know its not but you fight so hard that it is the only thing people see and hear about.

Did it ever occur to you that you might gain, lets say 99.999%, of New Yorker's support if you lobbied for lower taxation/no taxation of all races and not just one race. IMO - that would win support of all races and not just the people that want to save money on gas and cigs.

Instead, you choose to do as your told and play the we were treated so badly 200 years ago card to the max. SAD!

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#1003289 --- 04/02/09 10:12 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SFisWonderful]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
BJR - Currently Lakeside is unable to sell cigarettes per the ruling by the judge. Should the same apply to the gas as sales taxes are not being paid by the tribe either and the land is not in trust?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1003306 --- 04/02/09 11:24 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: bluezone
BJR - Currently Lakeside is unable to sell cigarettes per the ruling by the judge. Should the same apply to the gas as sales taxes are not being paid by the tribe either and the land is not in trust?


Blue zone - this ? puts me in a position where you will see my answer as my opinion and truth be told, based on the legal landscape of the moment, it is. I am going to answer it anyway! In my experience, many people use a difference of opinion as an excuse to forget their manners. You strongly disagree with me yet haven't forgotten yours and I appreciate it.
I do not agree with Judge Fisher's ruling so I would tell you the Cayugas should be able to sell cigs, gas and other items as they have in the past, free of state excise and sales tax.

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#1003307 --- 04/02/09 11:37 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SFisWonderful]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SFisWonderful
Well that's sad! You proved RedGreen wrong as he said you could bring something to the table. I was really looking forward to having my questions answered. I guess I will have to wait to see how the court feels as to what can and cant be done on reservation land, what/where reservations are, and if the Cayuga Nation legally exist.

JMO:
If your job is to develop and operate business you do a poor job at it, and that is giving you a compliment and stating it nicely.

My understanding of developing and operating is to keep the negative PR to a minimum and the good PR to a maximum. As you dont/wont answer questions, I can only ask myself and the OPINIONS of others, why spend so much time on the business of selling cigs and gas tax free? Would the native americans ancestors be proud of this? Is this what the native american culture represents? I know its not but you fight so hard that it is the only thing people see and hear about.

Did it ever occur to you that you might gain, lets say 99.999%, of New Yorker's support if you lobbied for lower taxation/no taxation of all races and not just one race. IMO - that would win support of all races and not just the people that want to save money on gas and cigs.

Instead, you choose to do as your told and play the we were treated so badly 200 years ago card to the max. SAD!


Last I checked the COO (and everyone else I know with this title)is responsible for generating income. Although the Cayuga Nation's finances are not made public, I can assure you I am successful at my job.
I can not speak for native ancestors and culture. As I said, I am caucasian.
Gaining support is not my mission.
Do I do as my boss tells me? Absolutely! Isn't that how one keeps a job?
I am playing no cards - I have not mentioned treatment of the Cayugas in one single post!

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#1003315 --- 04/03/09 12:59 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I do not agree with Judge Fisher's ruling so I would tell you the Cayugas should be able to sell cigs, gas and other items as they have in the past, free of state excise and sales tax.


To clear up my confusion, on what basis do you feel the Cayuga Nation "should be able to sell cigs, gas and other items as they have in the past, free of state excise and sales tax?"

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#1003316 --- 04/03/09 01:14 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Last I checked the COO (and everyone else I know with this title)is responsible for generating income.

And how far do you go to generate income?

Do you willingly advise a company that abuses their ancestors by exploiting their history for money?

Does it make you happy that you knowingly divide the country which you claim to be apart of? In case you forgot, its the United States of America not the Divided States of America with the tribal governments scattered throughout.

Why would you support something that kills people with cancer? Is that your main goal in life, to get cheap cigs to addicted smokers?

Be honest, if not for me or anyone else, for yourself.

I dont expect answers to my questions, it least not honest and direct ones. Maybe when your NOT trying to screw over the system and kill everyone with cancer in the process, you can think to yourself what your real purpose is in life and who you should help with your talents.

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#1003457 --- 04/03/09 07:29 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
... I can assure you I am successful at my job.
I can not speak for native ancestors and culture.


No discredit to you but it would be rather easy to be successful when one operates above the laws that all others must follow.

Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Do I do as my boss tells me? Absolutely! Isn't that how one keeps a job?


If an employee is told to do illegal actions then does the employee perform the task(s)?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1003466 --- 04/03/09 07:35 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
In my experience, many people use a difference of opinion as an excuse to forget their manners.

If people treat me with respect they receive it back.
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
You strongly disagree with me.

I cannot say that I disagree with you as you are only an employee but rather the manner that the Cayuga's choose the laws that suit them.
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I do not agree with Judge Fisher's ruling so I would tell you the Cayugas should be able to sell cigs, gas and other items as they have in the past, free of state excise and sales tax.

You have raised the Sherrill decision in prior posts and the fact that the Cayuga's are applying for trust simply states that the reservation is non-existent in NY unless one looks in Canada as you have already confirmed.

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1003483 --- 04/03/09 08:01 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
... I can assure you I am successful at my job.
I can not speak for native ancestors and culture.


No discredit to you but it would be rather easy to be successful when one operates above the laws tha all others must follow.

No discredit taken - and your point is valid. That said, my job is far from easy!

Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Do I do as my boss tells me? Absolutely! Isn't that how one keeps a job?


If an employee is told to do illegal actions then does the employee perform the task(s)?


I suppose that is up to the individual. Personally I would not. I do not believe that my employer has asked me to do anything illegal.

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#1003484 --- 04/03/09 08:06 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
... That said, my job is far from easy!



Speaking more about the highly profitable operation rather then the job to be performed.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1003960 --- 04/04/09 03:50 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
Cigarette decision still in limbo
By Nate Robson / The Citizen

Friday, April 3, 2009 11:47 PM EDT

ROCHESTER - It will still be another couple of weeks before an appeals court will rule on the legality of a pending felony tax evasion case against the Cayuga Nation for possessing untaxed cigarettes at two of its convenience stores.
Five state Appellate Division judges spent a half-hour Friday listening to arguments and questioning attorneys from the tribe and Cayuga and Seneca counties in preparation for their decision, which could set a precedent for how cigarette excise taxes are collected from nation-owned businesses statewide.

The hearing was the most recent in a series of appeals filed between the tribe and the counties after state Supreme Court Judge Kenneth Fisher ruled on Dec. 9 that the counties could file felony tax evasion charges against the nation for possessing nearly 3 million untaxed cigarettes.

The cigarettes were seized during joint raids of the nation-owned Lake Side Trading stores in Union Springs and Seneca Falls on Nov. 25. Fisher is the same judge who signed the warrants authorizing those raids.

Ian Gershengorn, an attorney for the nation, was the first one placed in the hot seat when Judge Samuel Green asked him what would happen if the court decided that a 2006 case, which Green helped write a decision for, did not apply in the tribe's situation.

In that case, the court ruled that the state can not collect excise taxes on purchases made within a reservation because a coupon system had not been implemented by the state to exempt tribal members from paying those taxes.

While that case dealt with the sale of untaxed cigarettes and the case against the Cayugas only deals with possession, Gershengorn said they both revolved around the coupons.

“Logic requires the same holding here even if they are different on that aspect,” Gershengorn said. “Without the coupons, taxation can't be enforced. (In the other case) they were in the same position as the Cayugas are now.”

With the counties believing they can file charges against the nation because their stores are not on a reservation, justices John Centra and Erin Peradotto asked Philip Spellane, an

attorney representing the counties, how taxes could be collected if the court ruled against his clients and said the stores are on sovereign land.

With an injunction placed on the only law meant to collect taxes from on-reservation purchases, Spellane said the counties current case would no longer be valid because they are currently charging the tribe under a law meant for off-reservation purchases.

Even if the court were to decide the stores are on a reservation, Spellane said the Cayugas could be told to use two different inventories; one of cigarettes with a tax stamp and one without a stamp. Cigarettes without a stamp would only be sold to Cayuga Nation members while taxed cigarettes would be sold to non-tribe members.

But Lee Alcott, an attorney for the Cayugas, said that system would still need coupons to work.

“If the county makes up a system involving two piles of cigarettes, the only way to determine how many untaxed cigarettes the store can sell will have to involve coupons of some type,” Alcott said. “So everything comes back to the state and tax departments policy of forbearance.”

While Cayuga County District Attorney Jon Budelmann said he believes the judges did a fair and thorough job questioning the attorneys, he said some of the questions did concern him.

“I was a little discouraged about them asking use to assume there is a reservation, and what then,” Budelmann said. “It's like asking us to assume there is going to be red snow tomorrow. There just isn't going to be, and there isn't a reservation.”

If the court decides against the county, Budelmann said his office will have to talk to the county to decide if they want to spend more money and appeal.

If the tribe loses, Alcott said they will file an appeal, which will likely move the case up to the state's Court of Appeals.

“I think either side will file an appeal if they lose,” Alcott said. “We can't just file an appeal though, we will have to have a reason.”

Staff writer Nate Robson can be reached at 253-5311 ext. 248 or nathan.robson@lee.net
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1003972 --- 04/04/09 04:05 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
Will all the landowners get their taxes back if they say that this is a reservation?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1004529 --- 04/05/09 06:38 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32598
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
But Lee Alcott, an attorney for the Cayugas, said that system would still need coupons to work.


And when the coupons are handed out the tribe will have to comply.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1004590 --- 04/05/09 10:10 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: BJ Radford]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I suppose that depends on what your definition of sales tax is.
I believe SCOTUS defined what the definition of sales tax was when the state won the right to collect those taxes at tribal businesses.

SCOTUS also defined what the word "now" means in the Rhode Island case. That was a "statutory" ruling, meaning Congress could change - with a great degree of work - the impact of the ruling.

HOWEVER, the SCOTUS ruling on Hawaii, I think it was Tuesday, cinched it! The feds can't take state sovereign lands without the state's permission. The Hawaii ruling is a Constitutional ruling and cannot be overturned by Congress,

Have a nice day. Just got back from D.C. and was at the House hearing pertaining to Rhode Island. \:\)

Then again, one COULD ask what the definition of the word "is" means. LOL

It's a new ball game !!!! Have a nice day.

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#1004597 --- 04/05/09 10:22 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
BJ: "I do not believe that my employer has asked me to do anything illegal."

Big mistake.

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#1004604 --- 04/05/09 10:30 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
I guess I would rather wait for the Appellate's court decision on that than take your opinion. Your opinions, although I generally feel come from a well researched position, are not relevant as it relates to my employer/employee relationship.

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#1004617 --- 04/05/09 11:19 AM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It's a new ball game !!!! Have a nice day.


Great news Rich. I am glad our local elected officals didn't cave into them.
_________________________
http://www.nocayugalandintotrust.net

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#1004648 --- 04/05/09 01:48 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
I suppose that depends on what your definition of sales tax is.
I believe SCOTUS defined what the definition of sales tax was when the state won the right to collect those taxes at tribal businesses.

SCOTUS also defined what the word "now" means in the Rhode Island case. That was a "statutory" ruling, meaning Congress could change - with a great degree of work - the impact of the ruling.

HOWEVER, the SCOTUS ruling on Hawaii, I think it was Tuesday, cinched it! The feds can't take state sovereign lands without the state's permission. The Hawaii ruling is a Constitutional ruling and cannot be overturned by Congress,

Have a nice day. Just got back from D.C. and was at the House hearing pertaining to Rhode Island. \:\)

Then again, one COULD ask what the definition of the word "is" means. LOL

It's a new ball game !!!! Have a nice day.


Somebody please lock Gov. Paterson in a closet so he can't agree to any negotiated deals that give away NYS land. \:\(
_________________________



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#1004698 --- 04/05/09 04:08 PM Re: Judge: Cayugas can't sell tax-free cigarettes [Re: SilverFox]
HighC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Out of my mind
I was posting to this topic and haven't participated in a couple of days. Why? Because I have been evaluating the posts by BJRadford. I was surprised that she would take the approach of posting here.

I have talked with the real BJ, she is a very direct and knowledgeable businesswoman. The posts on this thread are somewhat knowledgeable but are very coy, NOT the directness or knowledge that she would have. Posts are usually reflections of someone's personality.

I do believe that the poster is employed by by the Cayugas, but not the real BJRadford.

JMHO. I will retract my statement and verify that it is the true BJRadford if challenged. I do not believe this is a violation of this sites terms of use because this poster is representing to be a real persons identity.

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