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#929902 --- 12/03/08 01:49 PM Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Judge delays ruling on Indian tax case

A state Supreme Court decision on whether or not Cayuga and Seneca county law enforcement agencies legally raided two Cayuga Nation-owned businesses last week will not be released until next week.
Given the complexity and the volume of the information provided by representatives for the Cayuga and Seneca county district attorneys' and sheriffs' offices and the tribe's lawyers, Supreme Court Judge Kenneth Fisher said on Wednesday that he would go over all of the information before making a decision.

The hearing focused on whether or not the Lake Side Trading stores in Union Springs and Seneca Falls are on recognized reservations, and if the counties have a right to impose state cigarette excise tax laws on the businesses.

Both businesses were simultaneously raided by deputies on Nov. 25 after Fisher signed a warrant authorizing the search and seizure of any untaxed cigarettes and any related evidence. Nearly 3.5 million untaxed cigarettes were collected between the two stores.

Lawyers for the Cayuga Nation argued the search was illegal because there are no applicable tax laws to collect the money from the nation because it is on a reservation.

Representatives for the district attorneys' and sheriffs' offices argued that the stores were not on a recognized reservation and that there have always been laws requiring the collection of excise tax on purchases made between American Indians and state residents.

According to state laws, only sales between American Indians are tax exempt.

Both Seneca County District Attorney Richard Swinehart and Cayuga County District Attorney Jon Budelmann agreed not to file felony tax evasion charges against the nation until after Fisher issues a decision.

B.J. Radford, the chief operating officer for the store in Cayuga County, said that the businesses have not restocked their cigarettes.

By: Nate Robson / The Citizen

Wednesday, December 3, 2008 2:38 PM EST

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#929949 --- 12/03/08 03:27 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: newsman38]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32650
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: newsman38


Lawyers for the Cayuga Nation argued the search was illegal because there are no applicable tax laws to collect the money from the nation because it is on a reservation.




The Cayugas applied to have their lands taken into trust in April 2005 after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in "City of Sherrill vs. Oneida Indian Nation" that the Oneidas could not purchase land and unilaterally declare it tax free or sovereign from local control.

Originally Posted By: newsman38

Both Seneca County District Attorney Richard Swinehart and Cayuga County District Attorney Jon Budelmann agreed not to file felony tax evasion charges against the nation until after Fisher issues a decision.


Halftown and Twogun have a week to enjoy their freedom.



.
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#929963 --- 12/03/08 03:40 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: bluezone]
reilley Offline
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Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
i hope the Indians win ...


if the Indians close shop no one gets money ,but the Indians and the all workers will be able to collect unemployment and SS.
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#930121 --- 12/03/08 06:37 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reilley
i hope the Indians win ...


if the Indians close shop no one gets money ,but the Indians and the all workers will be able to collect unemployment and SS.


At least one gas station closed in Seneca Falls due to the Indians. It is likely to reopen if the illegal Indian operation is forced to close.
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#930172 --- 12/03/08 07:03 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: trump]
Rigatoni Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 163
Loc: On a plate
Originally Posted By: trump
Originally Posted By: reilley
i hope the Indians win ...


if the Indians close shop no one gets money ,but the Indians and the all workers will be able to collect unemployment and SS.


At least one gas station closed in Seneca Falls due to the Indians. It is likely to reopen if the illegal Indian operation is forced to close.

If you mean J&T`s it can not reopen because the old tanks leaked and it is an environmental nightmare.All the old tanks and soil would have to be removed for that place to open again.

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#930300 --- 12/03/08 09:10 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Reilley, NOBODY is asking or telling the Cayuga tribe to close their businesses or lay off their employees. That's what they've forced four other businesses to do since 2003.

The Cayuga tribe is free to purchase ALL the cigarettes in the WORLD and sell them to you or anyone else, JUST like any OTHER business providing they purchase cigs with tax stamps on. IF they had complied with the law in the first place, they wouldn't have had their illegal wares confiscated.

But YOU will have to pay the tax when you purchase them there.

If they close their business or lay off anyone it's ONLY because they WANT to.

Now REALLY Reilley, is your sympathy about the employees or is it for yourself at having to pay the tax?

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#930348 --- 12/03/08 10:35 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
the employees, if i want to smoke I will pay tax, or have my hubby get them out of state


Edited by reilley (12/03/08 10:37 PM)
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#930682 --- 12/04/08 08:33 AM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32650
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reilley
the employees, if i want to smoke I will pay tax, or have my hubby get them out of state


With the millions of dollars that the tribe has illegally pocketed over the years why not have the tribe help out their employees?


.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#930784 --- 12/04/08 10:52 AM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reilley
the employees, if i want to smoke I will pay tax, or have my hubby get them out of state


If the Indians paid their just taxes, their employees would have jobs. The USA was founded on the principal that all men are created equal. That means the same rules apply to all Americans. That includes tax laws. The only thing I don't understand is why our leaders let this illegal operation go on for so long before taking action.
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#930837 --- 12/04/08 12:04 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: trump]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
Trump,
Nothing in America is equal. That is why justice is blind and always will be . Just ask the rich . They will tell you how fair it is until they have no loop holes . Then they will scream.
We all know its unfair. Until the US Govn't (Wahington)makes it equal for all don't start with the little guy.
_________________________
remember the smile



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#931140 --- 12/04/08 08:08 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Letter to the editor:

Upstate Citizens for Equality extends a sincere thank you and appreciation to District Attorneys Richard Swinehart and Jon Budelmann and Sheriffs Jack Stenberg and David Gould for implementing a superbly coordinated uneventful raid.

It is evident that two Lakeside convenience stores were not remitting taxes on over 175,000 packs of cigarettes a week. That's a loss of $495,250 in taxes every week and it isn't even tourist season. That's close to twenty six million dollars a year.

Since 2003, four local tax paying convenience stores have gone out of business and another burned down that wouldn't rebuild because they can't compete with the state SELECTIVELY enforcing the law.

The state is acting no differently than the strong arm of a mob by ignoring tribal businesses and enforcing the laws on their competitors.

It is evident that the Governor's estimates of lost taxes are grossly underestimated. The State won the right to collect taxes on reservations from the U.S. Supreme Court in 1995. I fully do not understand why, even in retrospect of the riots, ALL people that break the law are not merely dealt with EQUALLY REGARDLESS of race.

Our Governors have outright refused to enforce the laws they swore to uphold. We are thankful that District Attorneys Swinehart and Budelmann aren't afraid to treat everyone equally under their jurisdiction.

Properties purchased by the Cayuga tribe are the same as anyone else's privately owned property. If they were a qualified reservation, the tribe would not have a trust application filed.

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#931151 --- 12/04/08 08:16 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Gio Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 16476
Loc: Cleveland
I do not understand why they have not shut them completely down. They still are breaking the law.
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#931156 --- 12/04/08 08:19 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Originally Posted By: reilley
Trump,
Nothing in America is equal. That is why justice is blind and always will be . Just ask the rich . They will tell you how fair it is until they have no loop holes . Then they will scream.
We all know its unfair. Until the US Govn't (Wahington)makes it equal for all don't start with the little guy.





You steped in it now. How you been Reilly
_________________________

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#931183 --- 12/04/08 08:39 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: sworldt]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
Originally Posted By: sworldt
Originally Posted By: reilley
Trump,
Nothing in America is equal. That is why justice is blind and always will be . Just ask the rich . They will tell you how fair it is until they have no loop holes . Then they will scream.
We all know its unfair. Until the US Govn't (Wahington)makes it equal for all don't start with the little guy.





You steped in it now. How you been Reilly


Yeah I know , but sometimes I get sick of people blameing the Indians for what ever comes down the pike. We all know that what ever money collected if any WILL NOT BE USED to HELP the TAXPAYERS!

I have been good sworldt... how bout you ...
we should get together for coffee/tea ...
_________________________
remember the smile



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#931203 --- 12/04/08 09:06 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Originally Posted By: reilley
Originally Posted By: sworldt
Originally Posted By: reilley
Trump,
Nothing in America is equal. That is why justice is blind and always will be . Just ask the rich . They will tell you how fair it is until they have no loop holes . Then they will scream.
We all know its unfair. Until the US Govn't (Wahington)makes it equal for all don't start with the little guy.





You steped in it now. How you been Reilly


Yeah I know , but sometimes I get sick of people blameing the Indians for what ever comes down the pike. We all know that what ever money collected if any WILL NOT BE USED to HELP the TAXPAYERS!

I have been good sworldt... how bout you ...
we should get together for coffee/tea ...



I'm going to have to send you to the time out room. lmao

Seriously i do understand what your saying. Personaly as a tax payer of this county i wish all sides would come together and work out something that will benefit everyone and put this behind us. Other wise this mess will handed be down to our kids.
All because we couldn't settle our differances. OK UCE come get me.
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#931233 --- 12/04/08 10:18 PM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: sworldt]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
Originally Posted By: sworldt
Originally Posted By: reilley
Originally Posted By: sworldt
Originally Posted By: reilley
Trump,
Nothing in America is equal. That is why justice is blind and always will be . Just ask the rich . They will tell you how fair it is until they have no loop holes . Then they will scream.
We all know its unfair. Until the US Govn't (Wahington)makes it equal for all don't start with the little guy.





You steped in it now. How you been Reilly


Yeah I know , but sometimes I get sick of people blameing the Indians for what ever comes down the pike. We all know that what ever money collected if any WILL NOT BE USED to HELP the TAXPAYERS!

I have been good sworldt... how bout you ...
we should get together for coffee/tea ...



I'm going to have to send you to the time out room. lmao

Seriously i do understand what your saying. Personaly as a tax payer of this county i wish all sides would come together and work out something that will benefit everyone and put this behind us. Other wise this mess will handed be down to our kids.
All because we couldn't settle our differances. OK UCE come get me.


I agree with you sworldt,but I don't see that in the near future
it will always be unequal.
I think it will be handed down to our great grand kids..
after what you just wrote ... I will see you in the time out room also! lol
_________________________
remember the smile



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#931334 --- 12/05/08 05:52 AM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: sworldt]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32650
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sworldt
... Personaly as a tax payer of this county i wish all sides would come together and work out something that will benefit everyone and put this behind us...


Find that reservation yet?
Paid 8 times and still want to be above the laws?

;\)
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#931337 --- 12/05/08 05:54 AM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32650
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reilley



if the Indians close shop no one gets money ,but the Indians and the all workers will be able to collect unemployment and SS.


How will the indians be able to collect unemployment and SS if they are sovereign or on a reservation?


.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#931420 --- 12/05/08 07:46 AM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: bluezone]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
because if they get paychecks with all the goodies taken out they can ..even if they don't they can GET SS
_________________________
remember the smile



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#931451 --- 12/05/08 08:35 AM Re: Decision Delayed in Indian Tax Case [Re: reilley]
trump Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 887
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reilley
because if they get paychecks with all the goodies taken out they can ..even if they don't they can GET SS


And why would they take all the goodies out if this is sovereign Indian land? Are the part of the USA or not? They can't have it both ways!
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