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#907286 --- 10/29/08 03:33 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Wally]
hummm Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 235
Loc: new york
How about getting rid of the gas station and putting building 12 there. \:\) And developing the lakefront to attract ecotourists!!!

With hotels, maybe small "botique" hotels in some of the vacant buildings, etc. in downtown and the lakefront virtually under-developed and enhanced to attract more wildlife. Wintertime is great for ecotourists here with all the ducks flocking throughout those dark dreary months, but it must be supported with a vital downtown. and summer with walkways for hiking, docks, etc. also needs a vibrant downtown. think about developing downtown and stop trying to do what everyone else is doing around us. let's bust out and try something new and green. That lakefront is just too beautiful to trash-up with developments that profit a few. try something different that will benefit all of Geneva.

(Note: At present, downtown has quite a few "antique" or "thrift" shops. People go from one to the other. This theme might be developed. It does presently attract a lot of people. Just ask the folks in The Second Hand Shop, or the shops on Exchange Street.)

Here is ecotourism from Wikipedia:

"According to the definition and principles of ecotourism established by The International Ecotourism Society (TIES) in 1990, ecotourism is "Responsible travel to natural areas that conserves the environment and improves the well-being of local people." (TIES, 1990). Those who implement and participate in ecotourism activities should follow the following ecotourism principles:

minimize impact
build environmental and cultural awareness and respect
provide positive experiences for both visitors and hosts
provide financial benefits and empowerment for local people."

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#907300 --- 10/29/08 03:57 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: hummm]
VIKING33NY Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 88
I think Jackie's problem is that she keeps trying to keep Geneva's interest at heart. Shame on you Jackie!

If you take the time to listen to what she says and why she (Jackie says it, you'll understand) most people won't or don't.

She has a very decent point of view about Geneva..Personally I like her plan.

Jackie, Keep up the good work!

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#907405 --- 10/29/08 04:57 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Qwill Pen]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: caseyseneca
They are taxed different until tax law than other residential property and would not make the tax base increase the way developers would like us to believe.



These will not be condos like you see near the lake in Canandaigua.

Call them what you like but anyways you will have residential space on the top floor of a commercial building. The entire building will assessed accordingly and there will not be a seperate assessment between the commercial part and the residential part.

I got a flyer stuck to my front door awhile back that said condos are assessed differently. It was an apparent attempt to mislead people.

Residential units on top of commercial buildings...sound familiar? Sounds like buildings we already have downtown. There is no assessment difference between the commercial part of the building and the residential part.
_________________________
Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#907422 --- 10/29/08 05:12 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Back in the 80's the 5&20 highway was moved in order to make way for lakefront development. I do believe us taxpayers are still to this day paying on that debt.

In those presented plans the lakefront development is minor. It's a small space between the Ramada and the Chamber with the rest of it being left open.

A long time city resident told me that lakefront development talks have been going on for 40 YEARS. 40 YEARS!

Council can't seem to make a decision on an old run down gas station. The old Cookery block was sold, the buyer was going to demolish it and then what...the city gave the guy his money back and now its been torn down. I am guessing it was a cost to us taxpayers.

So does anyone really think the city can get any type of this development going? I don't. I don't think I will see it in my lifetime.

And for you people who are so bent on seeing the lake as you drive by...don't worry. It will be like the way it is now for many more years. Empty and the burden will continue to be on the taxpayers.
_________________________
Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#907516 --- 10/29/08 06:32 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Taxpayer14456]
metsno1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 738
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456
Originally Posted By: caseyseneca
They are taxed different until tax law than other residential property and would not make the tax base increase the way developers would like us to believe.



These will not be condos like you see near the lake in Canandaigua.

Call them what you like but anyways you will have residential space on the top floor of a commercial building. The entire building will assessed accordingly and there will not be a seperate assessment between the commercial part and the residential part.

I got a flyer stuck to my front door awhile back that said condos are assessed differently. It was an apparent attempt to mislead people.

Residential units on top of commercial buildings...sound familiar? Sounds like buildings we already have downtown. There is no assessment difference between the commercial part of the building and the residential part.


The difference is that the residential units downtown are not privately owned, but rather rented. Those buildings constitute single taxable entities. My understanding is that the condos would be individually owned by their occupants, making them taxable on a separate basis.

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#907535 --- 10/29/08 06:50 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: hummm]
hummm Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 235
Loc: new york
Further to my post on eco-tourism, there is agri-tourism where people come to rural areas to experience farm life. it is conceivable people might come to Geneva, stay in the city, and be driven (either van, car or buggy) to the farms for a few hours to enjoy farm life. Then taken to a restaurant that serves good country food, or any restaurant, or vineyard, of their choice. Similar to what is offered by the Amish in Pennsylvania, etc. only scaled to Geneva which has much more to offer because of the lake and the historic elements.

Along with the farm experience, the nature experience (eco-) would include a trip around, along, or on our beautiful lake to view the wildlife (no, not the bar crowd). Guides would point out subjects of interest on the lake. Along with this would be a historic tour of our area. We do have many historic buildings and this would tie the Geneva experience together.

We have much to offer eco- and agri- tourists if you think about it and it preserves and develops this area in a way that is good for all. Building big buildings and condos on the lake is old stuff, most tourists have been there, done that over and over again.

The world is changing. Food is being grown locally again. Community is being re-discovered. We are surrounded by large cities with many families who long to experience the outdoors. And wow! does Geneva have outdoors!!! And an exciting history, and vineyards, and farms, and if we develop the downtown antique shop theme, and discover some other themes, it spells a wonderful summer or winter trip with the family. This sounds much better to me than looking at a developed or over-developed lakefront and lots of bars to accommodate bored tourists.

This would be my dream. Just a dream, I fear...

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#907590 --- 10/29/08 08:09 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: hummm]
mackey Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 137
Loc: geneva
Hate to say it but Hummm has a point with the old gas station. Maybe this will please everyone.

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#907624 --- 10/29/08 08:39 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: metsno1]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: metsno1
The difference is that the residential units downtown are not privately owned, but rather rented. Those buildings constitute single taxable entities. My understanding is that the condos would be individually owned by their occupants, making them taxable on a separate basis.



If that's the case then it's a win-win for the city. The building itself will have an assessed value for taxes and the condos, so to speak, will also be taxed. If that's the plan then I am more for it now then I was before.
_________________________
Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#907884 --- 10/30/08 07:25 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Genevan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1914
Loc: Geneva
Wow, suddenly Taxpayer14456 supports more taxes...imagine that...

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#907956 --- 10/30/08 09:20 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: mackey]
Geneva_grl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1313
Loc: G-Town
Here's an idea: Put Building 12 where the eyesore gas station is. It will make everyone happy. They will have their Building 12 and save the gas station (sort of).

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#907973 --- 10/30/08 09:29 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Genevan]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
It's more development and a greater tax base I support. That helps everyone.

I am also support forward thinking. Forward thinking has done wonders for places like Canandaigua and Victor.

It's too bad the negative thinking and the live in the past mentality is what shapes Geneva.
_________________________
Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#908078 --- 10/30/08 11:53 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Taxpayer14456]
TLC127 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 540
I do not believe Canandaigua has it right either. The whole lakeshore has been bought up by Geneco. There are a lot of the property he hasn't done anything with since his purchase. The Lincoln Hill Inn is a good example.

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#908090 --- 10/30/08 12:05 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: TLC127]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Canandaigua development is slated around the park/green space. Much like it would be here in Geneva if people had some positive forward thinking.

Ever see those old homes along Gibson Street? They are fabulous. The positive forward thinking energy is reflected in the way those homes are kept up and maintained.

What does Geneva have? Older historic homes owned by the colleges and off the tax rolls and older historic homes converted into welfare apartments. Negative backwards thinking is reflected in Geneva.
_________________________
Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#908128 --- 10/30/08 01:35 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Taxpayer14456]
hereagain Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY
You are so right Taxpayer. We need to have positive thinkers. The Building 12 plan may not be exactly what is needed but something needs to be done. Too many naysayers will just leave all the plans sitting on the shelf for another 40 years and what will we have - NOTHING AGAIN!!!

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#908278 --- 10/30/08 05:07 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Wally]
Miatasportscar Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Geneva, NY
Wally:
Yes, I have traveled, and I'll bet I've been (and stayed) in more lake front cities than you have. I watched the Inner Harbor go up in Baltimore, and I've seen cities where all the lake front had at the focal point of access is grass and beauty. Like I said and you can't see this. There's more than money to think of here. You do NOT destroy natural beauty for dollars. Why? Because there aren't enough dollars in the world to replace the natural beauty of things, such as our lake front. Putting a five story building there is insane, no matter what you or anyone else says. The first impression people (tourists) driving by have is one of natural beauty, unspoiled, and huge. They will stop if you have something for them to stop for, and they will spend money here.The already are spending money here due to the various wine trail attraction. Geneva is a focal point that many times have attracted them to the Finger Lakes in the first place. Advertise the region and it's benefits to tourists. That five story piece of crap at the very spot where a majority of us do not want it is absolutely not needed there. Put it elsewhere. Worried about increasing the tax base? Build things on Exchange Street and other locations, away from the lake front and the view.
As for the gas station, Geneva spent approximately $20,000 to let someone else tell them what the human eye can readily see. The place is tumbling down and needs to be demolished. Spend $20,000 to have someone tell you what any keen eye knows? Ridiculous. Foolish money spent, could have anyone with good eyesight tell this tale....$20,000 worth? Not hardly. Wasted money in an economy where money is king.
Leave the lake front alone, clean it up, keep it attractive, put things in the city for tourists to enjoy, build a better lake front marina complex, sit back and the tourists will come.
I live here and have paid taxes for over 40 years, and I like the lake front for what it is, natural beauty. Anything else is not needed at any cost. You cannot replace natural beauty at any cost, natural beauty only occurs once, then gone forever. Wake up!!!!!


Edited by Miatasportscar (10/30/08 05:12 PM)

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#908402 --- 10/30/08 07:51 PM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Miatasportscar]
hereagain Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY
Good point on the gas station! It's too bad that there are those still on council that listen to the very, very small voal minority on this. Wasn't there some vote a while back to take that eyesore down? Why is it still there? Now the same people say the lakefront process is a sham. My goodnees nothing has been voted on yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#908887 --- 10/31/08 09:29 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Miatasportscar]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Miatasportscar
... I live here and have paid taxes for over 40 years...


Do you live in the town or the city?



.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#908922 --- 10/31/08 10:19 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Taxpayer14456]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1341
Loc: N.Y.
What does the fact that a few rich home owners taking care of their properties have to do with forward thinking ? If true I think the beautifully kept row houses in Geneva blow away Gibson St.

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#908939 --- 10/31/08 10:43 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: tubby]
Miatasportscar Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Geneva, NY
Bluezone:
I live in the town, and I STILL can voice my opinion. As can someone from another state or country can. Opinions are what it takes to save this valuable natural treasure. Everyone no matter WHERE he/she lives can comment, and should. To alter natural beauty for a few extra dollars is insane in my opinion, but the Geneva council will have the final say, along with the very few who will show up for meetings.
Lastly, I owned and paid taxes on a piece of Geneva city property for many years as well, if that answers your question.
Let's SAVE THE LAKE FRONT!!!!!!!!!!

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#908947 --- 10/31/08 10:52 AM Re: Building 12 on the Lakefront [Re: Genevan]
VIKING33NY Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 88
building 12...what's it gonna do for Geneva? Tax wise? Nothing!!

That's what our City Council is worried about!!!

Good for them!!

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