FingerLakes1.com Forums
Page 9 of 110 < 1 2 ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... 109 110 >
Topic Options
#886458 --- 09/21/08 07:57 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Paterson you will need to get the tribal taxes.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
FingerLakes1.com
#890196 --- 09/28/08 11:25 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
enforce the laws.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#890322 --- 09/28/08 06:05 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Why should tribes honor agreements with you, when their agreements weren't honored?

As BZ asked - WHAT treaty are you referring to? Surely NOT the Treaty of Canandaigua in which was recognized the right of the tribes to sell their remaining lands, which they did. OH, THAT was the treaty where the Seneca guaranteed FREE passage across their State Reservation and then charged the state for the Thruway when it was built and billed the state last year for the vehicles using it? You mean THAT treaty that the TRIBE broke?
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
The vast majority of treaties that the US signed with native tribes have NEVER been honored. I mean, if you really want, I can compile a list, but I feel like this is pretty common knowledge. Seems a bit hypocritical to say anything about natives simply following in the footsteps of your own "great" country.

Your COMMON knowledge only holds water in the movies. FACT is you can NOT name ONE treaty with a New York tribe that was not honored by the state and U.S.
Talk about hypocritical? To argue that enforcing the law would cause a loss of jobs or closure of businesses is a bit hypocritical. The tribes making those arguments closed down competitors and took jobs from legitimate tax paying businesses by intimidating the state to selectively enforce the law against everyone else. What about those people's rights?

Generalizations are meaningless in an effort to brainwash the masses that do not know. Do not JUST name a treaty, state the clause that was not honored and I can show you where it was either honored or ruled upon contrary to your opinion.

Originally Posted By: Sausage
Should we force the elimination of American Indian Reservations because they did not pay their fair share of taxes to New York State Almighty?

No. We should merely demand that our Governor enforce the laws.
Originally Posted By: Sausage
Why do you hate American Indians?

There are many UCE members with Indian heritage. Without them, we would not be nearly as effective as we are. The quest for equality under the law merely demands our own government to uphold the Constitution and laws of the land without regard to race. Most Indians are not tribal members.
Originally Posted By: FL1 Mod 2
Debate this issue all you want, but if your dont control yourselves with the personal bickering the thread will be shut down.

Originally Posted By: Sausage
Hey it doesnt matter to me...go for it.

Of course one who has lost the argument and resorted to name calling would love to have the facts removed from public display.
I do agree, back and forth posts serve no purpose.
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
Is there any links you know of radily available to research what has to be hundreds of US Government / Native American treaties? Gotta be hundreds of them.

Yes, the CERA web site has a file which includes all the U.S. treaties but not the vast number of agreements made between the U. S. Government and Indian tribes after the close of the treaty period in 1871. These agreements altered many of the earlier treaties. Go to http://www.citizensalliance.org/ Click on Major Issues in the left hand column and then scroll down to Treaty Issues and click on the Native American Indian Treaties link. The treaties are listed by tribe, so treaties listed that include more than one tribe have the same listed under each tribe. I.E: 1794 Treaty of Canandaigua is listed as the TREATY WITH THE SIX NATIONS, 1794.
Originally Posted By: Duude
Why honor any Treaty now when you never have before?

Originally Posted By: bluezone
[quote=Duude][quote=bluezone] What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?

Strangely, BZ cannot seem to get that question answered. Could it beeee the only ones that have not honored the treaties HERE are the tribes? I will NOT argue that the U.S. has not broken treaties with western tribes - they did.

Top
#890801 --- 09/29/08 01:27 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Thanks RT.


I have asked the same question over and over again when ever someone states that NY has broken a treaty with a tribe. But for some strange reason the poster seems to disappear and fails to respond as to what treaty was broken.


I will conclude that not only has NY NOT broken a treaty with a tribe but all the laws that the tribes fail to obey in NY and the taxes they fail to pay are all a scam.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#890802 --- 09/29/08 01:29 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Go get 'em Mr. Bloomberg.................

----------------------------------------


NEW YORK (AP) — New York City is suing eight smoke shops that have been selling tax-free cigarettes on an Indian reservation.

The lawsuit accuses the small cluster of shops on the Poospatuck (POOS'-puh-tuhk) Indian Reservation of breaking state and federal law by selling massive quantities of cigarettes to bootleggers, who then smuggle the cartons off the Long Island reservation and resell them throughout the metropolitan area.

The practice has existed for years, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg's administration says it costs the city and state hundreds of millions of dollars a year in lost tax revenue.

Tribal authorities have long acknowledged that smuggling is a problem, but they defend the right of the shops to sell cigarettes without collecting state tobacco taxes.

Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#892028 --- 10/01/08 04:19 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Duude
Why honor any Treaty now when you never have before?


What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?



.


Still waiting?????


Just name one aspect of a treaty that was broken.


.




.









still looking???????????????/




_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#892031 --- 10/01/08 04:21 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
..."As much as we don't want to stoop to their level, it's time for the Cayugas and other Iroquois tribes to stand up and say this is enough," he said. ...

And what would be stooping to their level?

-----Obey NY laws and paying your taxes?

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#893357 --- 10/03/08 08:01 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
..."As much as we don't want to stoop to their level, it's time for the Cayugas and other Iroquois tribes to stand up and say this is enough," Clint Halftown said. ...


Try paying your fair share and a motorcade will not be needed.



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#894413 --- 10/05/08 10:14 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Paterson needs to act.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#895859 --- 10/08/08 07:17 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Duude
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Paterson why cut programs when you could tax the tribes and have a surplus?
Why honor any Treaty now when you never have before?


What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?



.



Is this simple question too hard for you?




.


Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot

Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot


My stats come from the US Census, BIA, NIGC, SBA and Dept. of Labor. Of course their stats are never "current". But from 1989 to 2003 percentage of household income increase for whites was 5%, Asian 6%, Hispanic 7%, Black 17%, and American Indian 32%. From 2000 to 2004 the American Indian population increased 23% from 2.2 to 2.7 million; federal spending on Indian programs increased 58% from $3.6 billion to $5.7 billion; and tribal revenue from gambling increased 207% from $6.3 billion to $19.4 billion. American Indians moved from 4th to 3rd out of the five ethnic distinctions, ahead of Hispanic and Black.

Lets see - 19.4 billion in just gambling added to $5.7 billion in tax funded freebies = $25.1 billion for 2.7 million American Indians, or $929 million per Indian each YEAR. Even just using the $5.7 billion in taxes comes to $211 Million per Indian per year. This leads me to believe that your statement of the rich getting richer may be true, but your adding "not Native Americans" is false.

... trust lands don't apply to New York State.




What treaty included these programs?



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#896376 --- 10/09/08 07:17 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
U.S. wants constitutional issues dropped
By JODY McNICHOL, Dispatch Staff Writer
10/08/2008

New Interior Department motion in land-into-trust appeal to be heard Nov. 7


WAMPSVILLE -The United States doesn't want to argue the Constitution.

The Department of Interior is asking the Second Circuit Court of Appeals to dismiss any complaint in the land into trust lawsuits that refer to the U.S. Constitution. The DOI made the decision to take 13,004 acres of land in Oneida and Madison counties into trust for the Oneida Indian Nation. Following that decision, the state, counties and some private organizations filed lawsuits against the DOI.


For the state and the counties of Madison and Oneida, the motion to dismiss refers to the first, second, and the 17th complaints, according to Rochester Attorney Dave Shraver.


Litigation expert on Indian affairs from the firm Nixon Peabody, Shraver gave a brief update on the land into trust lawsuits before the Madison County Native American Affairs Committee went into closed-door executive session Tuesday.


The first complaint says the delegation of authority from Congress to the Bureau of Indian Affairs is unconstitutional.


The second also refers to the delegation of authority, this time as it relates to the Tenth Amendment in the Constitution.


The amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."


County Attorney S. John Campanie said that the DOI's plan to take the acreage from New York state is contrary to the amendment.


The 17th complaint in the suit relates to the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, which requires a two-step process. The state is arguing that the decision exceeds the authority of the DOI and that the decision cannot be made without the governor of the state and the secretary of the interior agreeing.


The state will respond that the points are valid, forcing the DOI to argue those issues before the rest of the complaints are addressed.


"If we win on one of those points, we win the whole case. If we lose, the case is still alive because the issues are still on the table," Campanie said.


Also, County Administrator Paul Miller briefed the committee on the New York State Association of Counties Conference held in Niagara Falls recently. Miller said NYSAC has committed to support legislation requiring the state to collect taxes on gasoline and cigarettes sold by Indian tribes. "More people are talking about it than I have ever heard at a conference before," Miller said.


The request to dismiss the complaints that argue the constitutionality of the DOI decision is scheduled to be heard by Judge Lawrence Kahn in Albany on Nov. 7.




©The Oneida Daily Dispatch 2008
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#900398 --- 10/17/08 03:58 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Duude]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Duude
You can easily research so many Treaties that were broken. But why don't you list some Treaties that were honored and upheld?


Why don't show where a NY tribe has had a treaty broken?
Do not use another tribes example as it would not apply to NY or NY tribes.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#900401 --- 10/17/08 04:00 PM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Duude]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Woman charged with tax evasion
By The Citizen staff report

Friday, October 17, 2008 8:06 AM EDT




A local woman who traveled from Onondaga County to buy cigarettes in Union Springs was arrested for tax evasion after she was pulled over for running a red light, a trooper with the New York State Police said.

Gay Breed, 44, of Lysander, was driving home from Lake Side Trading convenience store in Union Springs when she turned left at a red light at the intersection of Routes 5 and 90, troopers said.

When the troopers pulled her over, they discovered that she had just purchased five boxes of untaxed cigarettes from Lake Side, a Cayuga Nation-owned business.

Cayuga County District Attorney Jon Budelmann said that knowingly purchasing more than two boxes of untaxed cigarettes was classified as a misdemeanor crime.

Each box contained 200 cigarettes.

But Breed's daughter, Victoria Breed, said her mother was not aware that her actions were against the law. When the officer asked to see what she had purchased, she just handed it right over without thinking anything was wrong, Victoria Breed said.

“I have just never heard of anything quite like that in my life,” she said, before adding that her mother was very shaken up after being arrested.

There is no law that would prevent the store from selling more than two boxes, Budelmann said.

And while people may not know that buying more than two boxes is tax evasion, Budelmann said they go to the trading post for the cheaper products that are not taxed.

Troopers said Breed was issued an Oct. 21 appearance ticket for Town of Aurelius Court.




-------------------------------------------


Enforce the laws at the source!



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#901260 --- 10/19/08 05:11 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
;\)
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#901269 --- 10/19/08 05:44 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
The Mask Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 13788
Loc: Hidden Harbor

Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes

That is a lot of little old ladies.
_________________________
i eat sunshine and i drink rivers
i wear meadows and I fly with the wind

Top
#902391 --- 10/21/08 07:11 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: The Mask]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#906075 --- 10/28/08 08:21 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Gov. David Paterson is getting ready to bring New Yorkers up to date about the state's financial problems -- and he's using words like "dismal" and "unfortunate."

During a stop in Buffalo today, Paterson says he will detail the state's budget deficit for this year and next on Tuesday. He says this year's budget deficit is in the neighborhood of $1.5 billion -- which is even more than the $1.2 billion he was projecting just a few weeks ago.

The governor says nothing will be off the table when the state Legislature meets next month to address the crisis. He's asked lawmakers to return to Albany Nov. 18 to cut spending.





--------------------------------------------------------

Howz about collecting the overdue monies from the tribes?


problem solved---------------------------------
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#906999 --- 10/29/08 08:47 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
City Tries to Curtail Cigarette Sales From Reservation


By STEPHANIE SAUL
Published: October 28, 2008
Bootleg cigarette traffic from Long Island’s tiny Poospatuck reservation to New York City is brisk, so much so that some cigarette dealers on the reservation don’t even bother to set up storefronts, according to a motion filed in federal court on Tuesday.

Instead, the dealers take telephone orders for bulk shipments of untaxed cigarettes. Millions of them are delivered to the city by van and distributed through an underground network that dramatically undercuts tax collection, the city alleged.

The Bloomberg administration asked a federal judge in Brooklyn to bar the reservation’s eight largest dealers from selling untaxed cigarettes to the public. Those dealers, named as defendants in a federal lawsuit filed by the city last month, control 95 percent of the sales on the reservation, the city said.

Officials estimate that untaxed cigarette sales by the eight dealers have cut city revenues by nearly $195 million a year, an amount the city can ill afford during a financial crisis. In addition, bootleg cigarette traffic undermines a Bloomberg administration anti-smoking campaign.

“In making off-reservation sales, including bulk transactions in which defendants sell vanloads of cigarettes on a daily basis, which are then trafficked into New York City for resale, defendants grow rich at the expense of tax-paying retailers and city and state taxpayers,” lawyers for the city said in the 43-page memorandum requesting a preliminary injunction against the tribal dealers.

State and city taxes of $4.25 a pack push cigarettes to more than $9 a pack in the city, but the bootleg cigarettes are often sold for $5 by street peddlers, known as $5 men.

The city corporation counsel, Michael A. Cardozo, described the burgeoning cigarette businesses on the reservation in the papers filed in United States District Court in Brooklyn.

The State Department of Taxation and Finance said that the Poospatuck cigarette trade grew to 11.3 million cartons last year, up from 406,000 cartons in 1996. The court papers said that 24 million cartons of cigarettes had been sold by the Poospatuck reservation’s eight largest businesses since 2004.

The cigarette dealers claim they are within their rights because Indian sales are exempt from state taxation. “It’s just interfering and trying to interfere with the lawful retail trade on our land,” said Harry Wallace, chief of the Poospatuck tribe, who attended a hearing Monday on the issue.

But the exemption, city lawyers argue, does not apply to sales to the public, only to reservation residents. Moreover, they say that many of the proprietors are not members of the tribe.

Noting that only 279 Poospatucks live on the reservation, Eric Proshansky, a lawyer for the city, argued in an affidavit filed with the memorandum that, “If defendants’ 2007 purchases of 9,780,469 cartons were disposed of in reservation sales, every man, woman and child on the reservation would have had to consume approximately 960 packs of cigarettes a day, a patent absurdity.”

In the past 10 months, 49 new entities had been established to sell cigarettes from the reservation, the court papers said.

Some of the businesses are owned by the same people, and investigators have suggested that the new businesses were set up to thwart limits on sales established by cigarette manufacturers to allow for age verification.

The court papers detailed several specific shipments from reservation dealers that were observed by either confidential informants or state investigators working with the city.

One of them occurred on July 17, when the Nassau County police intercepted a van containing 1,200 cartons of unstamped cigarettes, apparently on its way to the city. A state investigator saw the van driver pick up the shipment at Smoking Arrow Smoke Shop, one of the larger businesses on the reservation and a defendant in the lawsuit. The owner of Smoking Arrow was not immediately available to respond to the allegations.

Another defendant, TDM Discount Cigarettes, does not maintain a storefront, a fact that indicates that TDM “engaged entirely in bulk sales,” the court papers said. A confidential informant said that TDM made deliveries to a storage location in Queens owned by cigarette resellers in the city, according to the court papers. A lawyer for TDM could not be reached for comment.

In addition to supplying cigarettes, some of the reservation cigarette dealers gave drivers tips for eluding police and, in other cases, provided escorts to help get the distributors off the reservation, the papers say.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#908896 --- 10/31/08 09:39 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: bluezone
What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?

Strangely, BZ cannot seem to get that question answered. Could it beeee the only ones that have not honored the treaties HERE are the tribes? I will NOT argue that the U.S. has not broken treaties with western tribes - they did.


Duude - did you find the answer yet?



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
#908899 --- 10/31/08 09:41 AM Re: $1 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Duude
Why honor any Treaty now when you never have before?


What specific aspect of your treaty has not been honored?



.


?????



.
Still waiting?????


Just name one aspect of a treaty that was broken.


.




.













sill looking ???????



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

Top
Page 9 of 110 < 1 2 ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... 109 110 >