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#885923 --- 09/20/08 03:36 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: bluezone]
RedGreen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 8679
Loc: Charlotte
Not sure what parcels were included.
Paperwork might not yet be available online I`ll have to look.

I heard it from Clint Halftown the Cayuga Nation leader when I talked to him last weekend so I`m thinking it`s true.

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#885929 --- 09/20/08 03:43 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: RedGreen]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#885938 --- 09/20/08 03:59 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: RedGreen]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Originally Posted By: RedGreen
Not sure what parcels were included.
Paperwork might not yet be available online I`ll have to look.

I heard it from Clint Halftown the Cayuga Nation leader when I talked to him last weekend so I`m thinking it`s true.


Well if all this land went into trust, this is the end of the United States as we know it! So long Old Glory.

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#886018 --- 09/20/08 06:48 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: SFisWonderful]
sassyone Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 11439
Loc: Seneca Falls,NY,
Now I guess we all might as well just leave the country and let the Indians tear it down.

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#886021 --- 09/20/08 06:54 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: sassyone]
RedGreen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 8679
Loc: Charlotte
Yeah Sassy it`s gonna be like the wild west days again here in Seneca Falls, Injuns and cowboys riding around on horses like on Bonanza shooting guns off.
Gimme a break.

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#886147 --- 09/20/08 09:39 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: RedGreen]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: RedGreen
Last week the Oneida Nation got trust approval on land.
The first such in N.Y. state.
Lots more will follow, the precedent has been set.
There are over 57 million acres of land in the U.S. in trust owned by various Native Tribes,
it was only a matter of time.
How can they ( the Federal Government) turn down the N.Y. tribes when they said yes everyplace else.
Mountain Man - there is no reservation. Trust applications can be applied for anywhere. They have nothing to do with the non-existent land claim. But they don't apply to New York State and the lawsuits will prove that.

Red Green - the state may well be trying to cut a deal, but the lawsuits filed would preclude any trust land being granted. That's why the citizen groups filed lawsuits. The state can't just cut a deal. In fact I have a couple headlines where the state settled the Cayuga Indian Land Claim.

Maybe Clint dreamed it?

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#886211 --- 09/21/08 07:19 AM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Mountain Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 2432
Loc: out there
Rich and RedGreen, so you're saying, in essence , that all they have to do is apply for this status of land in trust and every acre they buy becomes something they can use against the state and citizens of NY? That's terrible.

Between this and our government bailing out fiscal thievery to the good old boys, there will be nothing left for poor slobs like me to do except my increasing debt load until it crushes me.

Maybe if I steal a lot I can get a bail out.
_________________________
Some people never go crazy, What truly horrible lives they must live--Charles Bukowski

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#886291 --- 09/21/08 11:59 AM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: Mountain Man]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
It's not that easy. Tribes can buy land anywhere and apply to have it placed into trust.

The BIA / DOI work for the benefit of tribes but are limited in their scope more than they want to be. They will approve applications that do not qualify.

The trust benefits were part of the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act. To qualify, tribes had to accept the Act. The Iroquois tribes all rejected the Act.

The DOI is wrongly attempting to apply the IRA provisions
Checkerboard reservations create jurisdictional nightmares and are seldom approved.

The DOI has failed to apply an unbiased and fair analysis of the fee to trust applications which require full compliance with the regulations governing that provide for administrative safeguards to protect the diverse interests of the non-Indian community. The DOI has also failed to comply with the National Environmental Policy Act.

Based on the plain reading of the Constitution and the rulings in Sherrill and Cayuga, the DOI has no authority to create federal public domain lands in New York State, which has retained its preemptive rights.

In Sherrill, SCOTUS ruled "the Tribe cannot unilaterally revive its ancient sovereignty, in whole or in part, over the parcels at issue. The Oneidas long ago relinquished the reins of government and cannot regain them through open market purchases from current title holders."

There are questions whether the tribes are even federally recognized under the IRA.

There was a provision in the Act introduced allowing tribes to purchase property to be placed into trust. Congress expressly removed that provision and placed a limit of $2 million a year to be approved by Congress for any lands to be placed into trust to prevent tribes from doing what they have been attempting.

There are several lawsuit filed at the following url. They explain much more than I have here.
http://www.upstate-citizens.org/UCE-v-United-States.htm

Trust lawsuits - yes there are several but only THREE that speak for the "people". Those are by NYSFBA, CERA, and UCE. The rest are government entities, a utility company and a tribe. For them as in the Cayuga land claim, when UCE lobbied hard to speak for the people, they can be persuaded with baseless promises and money. The outcome in the Oneida area will apply here as well. That's why we had to file the lawsuit when we did. There can be no land accepted into trust until the lawsuits are expended. So the state can not make a deal and drop their lawsuit without the lawsuits by those representing the people getting in the way. Without your support, we cannot support you.

That's the scary part. Donations are welcome.

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#886326 --- 09/21/08 02:32 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It's not that easy. Tribes can buy land anywhere and apply to have it placed into trust.

The BIA / DOI work for the benefit of tribes but are limited in their scope more than they want to be. They will approve applications that do not qualify.

The trust benefits were part of the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act. To qualify, tribes had to accept the Act. The Iroquois tribes all rejected the Act.

The DOI is wrongly attempting to apply the IRA provisions
Checkerboard reservations create jurisdictional nightmares and are seldom approved.

The DOI has failed to apply an unbiased and fair analysis of the fee to trust applications which require full compliance with the regulations governing that provide for administrative safeguards to protect the diverse interests of the non-Indian community. The DOI has also failed to comply with the National Environmental Policy Act.

Based on the plain reading of the Constitution and the rulings in Sherrill and Cayuga, the DOI has no authority to create federal public domain lands in New York State, which has retained its preemptive rights.

In Sherrill, SCOTUS ruled "the Tribe cannot unilaterally revive its ancient sovereignty, in whole or in part, over the parcels at issue. The Oneidas long ago relinquished the reins of government and cannot regain them through open market purchases from current title holders."

There are questions whether the tribes are even federally recognized under the IRA.

There was a provision in the Act introduced allowing tribes to purchase property to be placed into trust. Congress expressly removed that provision and placed a limit of $2 million a year to be approved by Congress for any lands to be placed into trust to prevent tribes from doing what they have been attempting.

There are several lawsuit filed at the following url. They explain much more than I have here.
http://www.upstate-citizens.org/UCE-v-United-States.htm

Trust lawsuits - yes there are several but only THREE that speak for the "people". Those are by NYSFBA, CERA, and UCE. The rest are government entities, a utility company and a tribe. For them as in the Cayuga land claim, when UCE lobbied hard to speak for the people, they can be persuaded with baseless promises and money. The outcome in the Oneida area will apply here as well. That's why we had to file the lawsuit when we did. There can be no land accepted into trust until the lawsuits are expended. So the state can not make a deal and drop their lawsuit without the lawsuits by those representing the people getting in the way. Without your support, we cannot support you.

That's the scary part. Donations are welcome.


The even scarier part is that the Indians continue to make millions every hour while NYS drags its butt on making a ruling. Groups that are looking out for the better of the average citizen such as the UCE, have a hard time making a stance because they are not invlolved in illegal businesses that make millions of illegal dollars.

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#886359 --- 09/21/08 04:32 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: SFisWonderful]
RedGreen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 8679
Loc: Charlotte
OK lets all agree to end this thread right now.
The Cayugas in all likelyhood will open the stand previously known as " Bodines " next year.

# 1 : There is no tax on produce in N.Y. State so don`t even go there.

# 2 : The Cayuga Nation pays property tax on this parcel so it`s the same as you or I owning it and running it.

There are enough other threads all about around the forum for all the "other" discussions, this was asked about the place that was Bodines.

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#886452 --- 09/21/08 07:50 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: RedGreen]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: RedGreen
OK lets all agree to end this thread right now.



as soon as the the tribes pay their taxes and obey NY laws.

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#886455 --- 09/21/08 07:51 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: RedGreen]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: RedGreen

I heard it from Clint Halftown the Cayuga Nation leader when I talked to him last weekend so I`m thinking it`s true.


Was he pumping gas?
The fumes may have got to his thinking.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#886456 --- 09/21/08 07:53 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: bluezone]
RedGreen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 8679
Loc: Charlotte
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: RedGreen

I heard it from Clint Halftown the Cayuga Nation leader when I talked to him last weekend so I`m thinking it`s true.


Was he pumping gas?
The fumes may have got to his thinking.

That`s exactly where it was,
and he was pumping gas.
50 cents a gallon off last weekend , and Clint was out there for anyone to talk to.

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#886501 --- 09/21/08 09:06 PM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: RedGreen]
SFisWonderful Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 1928
Loc: NEW YORK
Originally Posted By: RedGreen
OK lets all agree to end this thread right now.
The Cayugas in all likelyhood will open the stand previously known as " Bodines " next year.

# 1 : There is no tax on produce in N.Y. State so don`t even go there.

# 2 : The Cayuga Nation pays property tax on this parcel so it`s the same as you or I owning it and running it.

There are enough other threads all about around the forum for all the "other" discussions, this was asked about the place that was Bodines.


I would love to end this discussion but thats what the Indians want! They dont want the public to know about their sneaky illegal business practices. They just want this to go away so they can continue running their big scam operations.

Sure, they might be paying taxes on the property now (who knows) but are they trying to put the land into trust and get it off the tax rolls. I read RT's post where the landclaim is nonexistent-does this mean no more land will go into trust. WTH is a trust anyways and why are we still considering this BS? Everytime I hear something it raises more questions than answers.

I am still p.o.'d the government doesnt stop this BS so we can move on with more pressing issues. Why does the government favor Indian owned businesses but raise hell when a non-minority owner does the same thing.

And I am sure everyone that was pumping gas had nothing bad to say to Halfwit. I am sure they all thought he was a god.

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#886602 --- 09/22/08 05:15 AM Re: know when the Indians Veggie Stand will open? [Re: SFisWonderful]
Mountain Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 2432
Loc: out there
I didn't know that property taxes were being paid. I bet lots of people don't. I am not in favor of creating these zones of unequal competition in our communities that destroys the businesses and opportunities of those who have worked hard to make a go of it.

Paying property taxes isn't enough though. The only thing a citizen can do is vote with one's wallet. I don't buy gas there. Not because I want t give NYS more cash to blow but because I want to have some level of personal ethics for my neighbors not given the loophole and who struggle in the presence of the inequality.
_________________________
Some people never go crazy, What truly horrible lives they must live--Charles Bukowski

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