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#850891 --- 07/30/08 09:34 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: VM Smith]
Fluff Offline
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Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 400
Loc: waterloo
I had a whole reply typed and I deleted it because I do not want to sink to your level. I am done...you win, congratulations!
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#850906 --- 07/30/08 09:57 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Bing Bong]
sparky's back Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 9386
Loc: At Home..in the kitchen!!
Originally Posted By: Bing Bong
Originally Posted By: threeputt
If there are autistic children out there who go undiagnosed and thus untreated, the disorder is UNDER DIAGNOSED. If there are children out there who are diagnosed and are thus treated for it when in fact they do not have the disorder, then it is OVER DIAGNOSED. Take your pick.


Would you settle for "misdiagnosed"?


My son who is 6 was diagnosed at the age of 3 of being Autistic. Being my 7th child I knew something was not right. He spoke very little,had no eye contact,could spin circles for 20 minutes at a time,hated loud noises and crowds.Through ARC,where our Doctor recommended, Max was tested and we were told he is Autistic. Early intervention at Happiness House for 2 years was amazing,he began to speak,make eye contact,and his life was just improving. Now, after he has completed Kindergarten he is tested again and the school board is wondering if was ever really Autistic at all. He shows no signs of being Autistic at all and tested above average on each test he was given. He is a grade ahead on reading,which I take credit for,as I read to him EVERY day,he has his own library So now he will be tested again in the near future by ARC again.
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#850907 --- 07/30/08 09:59 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Fluff]
Bing Bong Offline
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Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2482
Loc: the road to hell
Originally Posted By: Fluff
I had a whole reply typed and I deleted it because I do not want to sink to your level. I am done...you win, congratulations!


Proving, beyond a doubt, that you

"...have become a better person; more patient, understanding, sympathetic, and a believer of small miracles."

Thanks for that!

LOL!!
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#850925 --- 07/30/08 11:58 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Bing Bong]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
I like to think I had a hand in the improvement. I mean, just a few posts ago, she was argumentative, condescending, dismissive, ignorant, and arrogant; Now she's a kinder, gentler autism industry shill.
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#850928 --- 07/31/08 12:51 AM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: VM Smith]
Yetta Nother Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
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No kidding.
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#851005 --- 07/31/08 08:54 AM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Yetta Nother]
HeavenlyPlaces Offline
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Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 21990
Loc: Someplace Else
Really good editorial on the subject in our local paper.

I found it on a blog site as well: http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080720/OPINION/807200379/1015/OPINION

Thomas Sowell: Autism diagnosis overused, often harmful for children


"New Ways to Diagnose Autism Earlier" read a recent headline in the Wall Street Journal. There is no question that you can diagnose anything as early as you want. The real question is whether the diagnosis will turn out to be correct.
Advertisement

My own awareness of how easy it is to make false diagnoses of autism grew out of experiences with a group of parents of late-talking children that I formed back in 1993.

A number of those children were diagnosed as autistic. But the passing years have shown most of the diagnoses to have been false, as most of these children have not only begun talking but have developed socially.

Some parents have even said, "Now I wish he would shut up."

I did absolutely nothing to produce these results. As a layman, I refused to diagnose these children, much less suggest any treatment, even though many parents wanted such advice.

As word of my group spread, various parents would write to ask if they could bring their child to me to seek my impression or advice. I declined every time.

Yet, if I had concocted some half-baked method of diagnosing and treating these children, I could now claim a high rate of success in "curing" autism, based on case studies. Perhaps my success rate would be as high as that claimed by various programs being touted in the media.

If a child is not autistic to begin with, almost anything will "cure" him with the passage of time.

My work brought me into contact with Professor Stephen Camarata of Vanderbilt University, who has specialized in the study of late-talking children - and who is qualified to diagnose autism.

Professor Camarata has organized his own group of parents of late-talking children, which has grown to hundreds, as compared to the several dozen children in my group. Yet the kinds of children and the kinds of families are remarkably similar in the two groups, in ways spelled out in my book "The Einstein Syndrome."

The difference is that Professor Camarata is not a layman but a dedicated professional, with decades of experience - and he too has expressed dismay at the number of false diagnoses of autism that he has encountered.

What Camarata has also encountered is something that I encountered in my smaller group - parents who have been told to allow their child to be diagnosed as autistic, in order to become eligible for government money that is available, and can be used for speech therapy or whatever other treatment the child might need.

How much this may have contributed to the soaring statistics on the number of children diagnosed as autistic is something that nobody knows - and apparently not many people are talking about it.

Another factor in the great increase in the number of children diagnosed as autistic is a growing practice of referring to children as being on "the autistic spectrum."

In other words, a child may not actually be autistic but has a number of characteristics common among autistic children. The problem with this approach is that lots of children who are not autistic have characteristics that are common among autistic children.

For example, a study of high-IQ children by Professor Ellen Winner of Boston College found these children to have "obsessive interests" and "often play alone and enjoy solitude," as well as being children who "seem to march to their own drummer" and have "prodigious memories." Many of the children in my group and in Professor Camarata's group have these characteristics.

Those who diagnose children by running down a checklist of "symptoms" can find many apparently "autistic" children or children on "the autism spectrum."

Parents need to be spared the emotional trauma of false diagnoses and children need to be spared stressful treatments that follow false diagnoses. Yet the "autism spectrum" concept provides lots of wiggle room for those who are making false diagnoses.

Real autism may not get as much money as it needs if much of that money is dissipated on children who are not in fact autistic. But money is money to those who are running research projects - and a gullible media helps them get that money.
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#851122 --- 07/31/08 12:49 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: HeavenlyPlaces]
Offline
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Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 17154
Diagnosing autism is much more than "going down a list of symptoms" and it is not diagnosed by any single person. Anyone who has any experience with an autistic child knows what the long arduous road to diagnosis is truly like. It is not a diagnosis that is made lightly. It can take what seems like forever ruling out other possibilities.

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#851123 --- 07/31/08 12:49 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: HeavenlyPlaces]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Excellent post, with some new info and things to consider.

However, Sowell mentions Prof. Camarata, but is he, or Sowell, for that matter, "a better person; more patient, understanding, sympathetic, and a believer of small miracles."?

And please remember this, HP: "Posting others work and opinions means nothing. If you have not had direct relationships with an autistic individual or been involved with the treating of a child with autism, your opinion is not valid.".

Translation: "I'm Fluff, and you're all stupid and ignorant, so just shut up and listen to your superior!".

ROTFLMAO!!
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#851192 --- 07/31/08 03:20 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: VM Smith]
Yetta Nother Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 17682
Loc: Sunny and warm
Cause she knows....I mean after all there could not possibly be a single misdiagnosed person in the world. I love those kinds of people....btw....your post was priceless.
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#851348 --- 07/31/08 06:29 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: VM Smith]
HeavenlyPlaces Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 21990
Loc: Someplace Else
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Excellent post, with some new info and things to consider.

However, Sowell mentions Prof. Camarata, but is he, or Sowell, for that matter, "a better person; more patient, understanding, sympathetic, and a believer of small miracles."?

And please remember this, HP: "Posting others work and opinions means nothing. If you have not had direct relationships with an autistic individual or been involved with the treating of a child with autism, your opinion is not valid.".

Translation: "I'm Fluff, and you're all stupid and ignorant, so just shut up and listen to your superior!".

ROTFLMAO!!


OOPS! My bad
\:\/
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#851498 --- 07/31/08 09:07 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: ]
Bing Bong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2482
Loc: the road to hell
Originally Posted By: Festus!
Diagnosing autism is much more than "going down a list of symptoms" and it is not diagnosed by any single person. Anyone who has any experience with an autistic child knows what the long arduous road to diagnosis is truly like. It is not a diagnosis that is made lightly. It can take what seems like forever ruling out other possibilities.


Do they rule out the possibility that some people are just different without being pathological at all? "There's clearly something wrong here, but we can't quite figure out what it is."

When I think back on the path to socialization that I was taken down, I have to wonder how any of us with any sensitivity survive at all. I have to wonder what potentials get erased in the quest to turn normal children into "normal children".
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#851501 --- 07/31/08 09:15 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Bing Bong]
Bing Bong Offline
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Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2482
Loc: the road to hell
One thing keeps coming back to me: When you have a cold, they can find the virus that caused it. When you've got cancer, there it is, right there for all the world to see. When you fry your brain with meth, they can see it in your EEG. But when you act a little different, they have to look up your behavior in the DSM because there ain't nothing else to see. A disorder that is defined by behavior alone is a very strange animal, especially given the fact that different behaviors are more or less acceptable in different times and places.
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#851507 --- 07/31/08 09:26 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Bing Bong]
Offline
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Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 17154
That's precisely why the diagnosis takes so long. To be sure, it is sometimes misdiagnosed - both ways. But then, Alzheimer's and emphysema (and a myriad of other things) are often misdiagnosed.

How many times have you heard of cancer being misdiagnosed - both ways?

I'll edit this to add that a good friend of mine was diagnosed with pneumonia at least 4 times before his lung cancer was properly diagnosed.


Edited by Festus! (07/31/08 09:30 PM)

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#851531 --- 07/31/08 11:08 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: ]
Bing Bong Offline
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Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2482
Loc: the road to hell
Originally Posted By: Festus!
That's precisely why the diagnosis takes so long. To be sure, it is sometimes misdiagnosed - both ways. But then, Alzheimer's and emphysema (and a myriad of other things) are often misdiagnosed.

How many times have you heard of cancer being misdiagnosed - both ways?

I'll edit this to add that a good friend of mine was diagnosed with pneumonia at least 4 times before his lung cancer was properly diagnosed.


With cancer or any other organic dysfunction, a misdiagnosis usually means that they didn't do enough tests, they didn't do the right ones, or they didn't understand the results. With psychological disorders, misdiagnosis could mean that there is no problem. Often a diagnosis hinges on the impact that the disorder has on someone's life or on the lives of others; that suggests to me that a psychological disorder may be a social phenomenon, not something that lives inside the client.
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#851568 --- 08/01/08 05:57 AM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Bing Bong]
Nathan Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 227
Loc: up
This is one of those things that you can't fully understand unless you've had a child with autism (of any degree).

I know what it's like.
As they say: "Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt".

I'd rather have a kid that was "just misbehaving".

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#851604 --- 08/01/08 07:15 AM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Bing Bong]
Yetta Nother Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 17682
Loc: Sunny and warm
Originally Posted By: Bing Bong
Originally Posted By: Festus!
Diagnosing autism is much more than "going down a list of symptoms" and it is not diagnosed by any single person. Anyone who has any experience with an autistic child knows what the long arduous road to diagnosis is truly like. It is not a diagnosis that is made lightly. It can take what seems like forever ruling out other possibilities.


Do they rule out the possibility that some people are just different without being pathological at all? "There's clearly something wrong here, but we can't quite figure out what it is."

When I think back on the path to socialization that I was taken down, I have to wonder how any of us with any sensitivity survive at all. I have to wonder what potentials get erased in the quest to turn normal children into "normal children".


Then they get thrown into the the last diagnosis.....learning disabled.
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#851605 --- 08/01/08 07:17 AM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: ]
Yetta Nother Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 17682
Loc: Sunny and warm
Originally Posted By: Festus!
That's precisely why the diagnosis takes so long. To be sure, it is sometimes misdiagnosed - both ways. But then, Alzheimer's and emphysema (and a myriad of other things) are often misdiagnosed.

How many times have you heard of cancer being misdiagnosed - both ways?

I'll edit this to add that a good friend of mine was diagnosed with pneumonia at least 4 times before his lung cancer was properly diagnosed.


True because then.....it is either Alzheimer's...or Dimentia.
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#851763 --- 08/01/08 01:19 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Yetta Nother]
Fluff Offline
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Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 400
Loc: waterloo
Don't you mean "dementia" not "dimentia".
Just giving you a taste of your own!!!!
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#852054 --- 08/01/08 08:52 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Yetta Nother]
threeputt Offline
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Registered: 12/08/01
Posts: 2800
Loc: Waterloo
Fluff.....I think you know my background. Many years ago, autism was a very rare disorder that was in fact considered to be a "mental illnes" and was frequently treated in psychiatric centers. At that time, the definition of autism was very narrow and did not include most children who are today described on the "autism spectrum." Old timers like me have had a somewhat difficult time adapting to the expanded view of autism. I'm not convinced we are better at diagnosing it and thats why there are so many more. I think the expanded view of autism accounts for the major portion the increased numbers of kids being diagnosed. Bottom line....more kids are being treated for a disorder that impairs social functioning, language, learning, etc. whether they are truly autistic as I view it, or whether they fall within the autism spectrum as many others view it. And I think thats a good thing. BTW, keep up the good work I know you do with these kids no matter what we call them!

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#852118 --- 08/01/08 10:04 PM Re: Autism a fraud! [Re: Nathan]
Bing Bong Offline
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Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2482
Loc: the road to hell
Originally Posted By: Nathan
This is one of those things that you can't fully understand unless you've had a child with autism (of any degree).

I know what it's like.
As they say: "Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt".

I'd rather have a kid that was "just misbehaving".


When a kid "just misbehaves" more than we think is normal, we look for a problem to explain the misbehavior -- just like when we sneeze more than we think is normal, we look for an explanation. Once we start looking, we tend to keep looking until we find what we're looking for: an explanation. Autism is a fashionable explanation for all sorts of behaviors. This is one of those things that you can't fully understand unless you have a high tolerance for ambiguity.
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