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#843222 --- 07/16/08 08:53 PM FISA Unlimited spying....
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Tell Congress: Fix FISA, Defend the Constitution!

I am absolutely outraged that the "Protect America Act" allows for no meaningful oversight by either Congress or the courts of interception of my private emails and phone calls.

It's unbelievable that it leaves decisions about the collection, mining and use of information up to the Bush Administration's Attorney General and Director of National Intelligence. Please do everything in your power to protect my rights before you consider making ANY of the powers in the "Protect America Act" permanent.It's also critical that Congress not grant immunity to telecommunications companies for past violations of the law, or grant government spying operations direct and unfettered access to the internet backbone and telecommunications infrastructure.

Legislation that's passed must protect my privacy and restore checks and balances.

Before leaving for August recess, Congress caved in to President Bush and his demand for out-of-control authority to spy on Americans' emails and phone calls by passing the so-called "Protect America Act." We're calling this bill the "Police America Act," because it allows for the massive, untargeted collection of Americans international communications without court order.

The only good news about this bill is that it's set to expire 6 months after it was signed into law. But Congress is rushing forward. Critical votes happening this week that could permanently grant vast new spying powers to Bush and all future presidents, with no meaningful oversight by Congress or any court.

http://www.aclu.org/
go to ACTIONS and e-sign acopy of a letter like this one then CLICK send...make a difference. Thanks.

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#843542 --- 07/17/08 12:26 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
It is absurd that you are so concerned with this. First, if you are so concerned about people listening to your phone calls, maybe you should think about what you are saying. More importantly, when you are trying to find the money to pay your heating bill this winter, will this be very important? Criminals can access your phone calls and email with absolutely zero checks and balances. Get over it.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#843543 --- 07/17/08 12:30 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Greymane]
Duude Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Seneca Falls
Exactly. Afterall, just because the government can eavesdrop on you without any warrant or probable cause does not mean you are any less free.

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Right?
(I think Stalin probably used that phrase at some point.)
_________________________
"History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is."
Thomas Jefferson

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#843545 --- 07/17/08 12:37 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Duude]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
I believe it only allows for unwarranmted tapping for 7 days, after that a warrant is required for further tapping. Of course the article from the ACLU didnt mention that part.
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#843546 --- 07/17/08 12:42 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
La Revolucion Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Waterloo
I agree with senecamom completely. And the "if your doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" arguement is flawed. What if the people in the government who are doing this monitoring, are the ones who need to be monitored? Who are these people? How do we know they are not a bunch of low life sumbags? (Which I believe they are.)

And Greymane, ee are supposed to have the right to say whatever we feel like saying in our private conversations. What right do you have to tell someone they should "watch what they say" in a private phone conversation? How dare you, my good sir. No one has that right.

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#843776 --- 07/17/08 06:43 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: La Revolucion]
threeputt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/01
Posts: 2800
Loc: Waterloo
Obama's vote on this cost him my support. I cannot believe anyone could think this is OK in America. When St. Ronnie called the Soviet Union an "evil empire" he was referring in part to the repression of their own people using the same techniques FISA allows. I visited the Soviet Union in 1975 (with a group of other professionals) and our Intourist guide was asked about this very issue (spying on their citizens, secret police, etc) and she was surprisingly candid that yes indeed, the state did do these things. Why? NATIONAL SECURITY. The irony is that if dubya wants to spy on people in complete secrecy, he can. There is already a mechanism in place to obtain a warrant quickly if need be. But, of course, that raises the possibility he could be turned down. Those of you who are unconcerned about this have apparently forgotten what it is to live in a society free from unwarranted government intrusion.

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#843794 --- 07/17/08 07:24 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: threeputt]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: threeputt
Obama's vote on this cost him my support. I cannot believe anyone could think this is OK in America. When St. Ronnie called the Soviet Union an "evil empire" he was referring in part to the repression of their own people using the same techniques FISA allows. I visited the Soviet Union in 1975 (with a group of other professionals) and our Intourist guide was asked about this very issue (spying on their citizens, secret police, etc) and she was surprisingly candid that yes indeed, the state did do these things. Why? NATIONAL SECURITY. The irony is that if dubya wants to spy on people in complete secrecy, he can. There is already a mechanism in place to obtain a warrant quickly if need be. But, of course, that raises the possibility he could be turned down. Those of you who are unconcerned about this have apparently forgotten what it is to live in a society free from unwarranted government intrusion.


Freedom....
Is the Government concerned about security-or is it about power?

Why are some fighting so hard for retroactive immunity? The answer, I believe, is that immunity means secrecy, and secrecy means power.
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843844 --- 07/17/08 08:53 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
La Revolucion Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Waterloo
As threeputt stated, those of you who are perfectly OK with this unwarranted, uncalled for spying have forgotten what it means to live in a free society. You republicans always praise how free you are in this country, not even realising we are all becoming prisoners. You republicans consider yourselves true Americans right? Well apparently you've forgotten that this is the exact sort of government the founding fathers fought against. This is exactly what they wanted to rid themselves of, a tyrant government and too much governmental control. Perhaps it is YOU who have forgotten what it means to be American.

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#843859 --- 07/17/08 09:14 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: La Revolucion]
threeputt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/01
Posts: 2800
Loc: Waterloo
There has been a "shadow government" in America since dubya took over. There is so much secrecy that no one can even guess how much there is. Why? People who abuse their power need to protect themselves from the light of truth. Historians are going to have a field day when the current White House occupant is sent on his way.

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#843915 --- 07/17/08 10:15 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: threeputt]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Its only unwarranted for up to 7 days, after that they need a warrant. I can understand needing some time in immediate situations is they are tipped off about something. 7 days is fair to me. Its not like they are able to do it unlimited.

Dubya is leaving in 6 months, I doubt he cares to spy on anyone.
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#843918 --- 07/17/08 10:19 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: La Revolucion]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
I am the one who posted oppisition....I started this thread to end the invasions of privacy....
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843920 --- 07/17/08 10:26 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Originally Posted By: senecamom
I am the one who posted oppisition....I started this thread to end the invasions of privacy....


You think this thread on a finger lakes web forum is going to end this?? hahahaha Thats about as useless as sitting in a tree without food for days to stop global warming.

You Internet activists are a joke. How about spend your time doing something that will actually have results such as getting into local government where the difference is most made.



_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843921 --- 07/17/08 10:27 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: La Revolucion]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: La Revolucion
As threeputt stated, those of you who are perfectly OK with this unwarranted, uncalled for spying have forgotten what it means to live in a free society. You republicans always praise how free you are in this country, not even realising we are all becoming prisoners. You republicans consider yourselves true Americans right? Well apparently you've forgotten that this is the exact sort of government the founding fathers fought against. This is exactly what they wanted to rid themselves of, a tyrant government and too much governmental control. Perhaps it is YOU who have forgotten what it means to be American.


I know exactly what it means to be an American, I started the thread.....AGAINST FISA........geesh \:\(
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843922 --- 07/17/08 10:31 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Originally Posted By: senecamom
I am the one who posted oppisition....I started this thread to end the invasions of privacy....


You think this thread on a finger lakes web forum is going to end this?? hahahaha Thats aboput as useless as sitting in a tree without food for days to stop global warming.





Just tried to get some folks to sign a document opposing the FISA Act before the Legislature goes on August break and the bills are passed without restrictions, and maybe some restrictions being lifted...
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843924 --- 07/17/08 10:36 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
What I dont understand is what your major problem with a 7 day unwarranted wiretap is? What is the big deal if its just for a few days? Unlimited I would be against 100%, but a few days while waiting for a warrant in a situation that could be extremely important I can deal with. With the warrant still needed there is a check on the executive branch by the judicial branch just like the constitution intented.

I could give a damn what the government hears me say on the phone anyway, if they want to hear me talk dirty to my wife then thats their problem.

_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843928 --- 07/17/08 10:53 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
That was someone elses post, gawd.

I NEVER said anything about 7 days!


I am against the passing of the FISA ACT!
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843929 --- 07/17/08 10:56 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Originally Posted By: senecamom
That was someone elses post, gawd.

I NEVER said anything about 7 days!


I am against the passing of the FISA ACT!


Wait a second, you are whining about the new FISA act yet the new FISA act does not allow for unlimited unwarranted wiretapping, it allows for 7 days of unwarranted wiretapping.

Are you against a 7 day window period where a warrant is not required?
_________________________
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On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843931 --- 07/17/08 10:58 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
6/19/2008--Introduced.
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008 or FISA Amendments Act of 2008 - Amends the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) to authorize the Attorney General (AG) and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) to jointly authorize the targeting (electronic surveillance) of persons located outside the United States in order to acquire foreign intelligence information, subject to specified requirements, including:
(1) prior certification to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Court); and
(2) certain targeting and minimization procedures. Authorizes:
(1) the AG and DNI to direct an electronic communication service provider (provider) to provide the government with all necessary assistance to accomplish the acquisition of information from targeted persons; and
(2) the provider to challenge such a directive through the Court. Requires the AG and DNI to conduct semiannual assessments of compliance with targeting and minimization procedures. Provides Court jurisdiction for approving the targeting of a U.S. person located outside the United States when the acquisition is conducted within the United States. Allows the AG to authorize an emergency acquisition of such a target in certain circumstances, upon application within seven days for a Court order authorizing the surveillance. Provides similar Court jurisdiction and outlines similar procedures for the acquisition (and emergency acquisition) of a physical search. Authorizes:
(1) joint applications and concurrent approvals of requests for acquisitions proposed to be conducted both inside and outside the United States; and
(2) concurrent authorizations of electronic surveillance and physical searches. Directs the AG to report semiannually to the intelligence and judiciary committees concerning the implementation of information acquisition requirements. States that, other than by express statutory authorization, FISA and the procedures of chapters 119 (Wire and Electronic Communications Interception and Interception of Oral Communications), 121 (Stored Wire and Electronic Communications and Transactional Records Access), and 206 (Pen Registers and Trap and Trace Devices) of the federal criminal code shall be the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance and the interception of domestic wire, oral, or electronic communications may be conducted. Requires the AG to submit semiannually to the intelligence committees copies of any orders of the Court or the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review that include significant construction or interpretation of FISA, including any such orders issued during the five-year period before the enactment of this Act. Requires the AG, after authorizing the installation and use of a pen register or trap and trace device on an emergency basis, to apply to the Court for an authorization order within seven days (current law requires 48 hours) after the emergency installation and use. Authorizes the Court to sit en banc when:
(1) necessary to secure or maintain uniformity of Court decisions; or
(2) the proceeding involves a question of exceptional importance. Authorizes the acquisition of foreign intelligence information from an entity not substantially composed of U.S. persons that is engaged in the international proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Provides certain protections for entities (including a provider, custodian, or landlord) providing surveillance assistance at the request of the AG or the intelligence community. Requires the review of surveillance actions conducted during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007.
_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843934 --- 07/17/08 11:04 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
THE GUTTING OF FISA SAFEGUARDS
For five years, on presidential orders, the National Security Agency has been reading email and tapping phones without a warrant - actions explicitly forbidden by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.
Despite this 30-year precedent, Congress and the president colluded in a last-minute Patriot-Act-style vote just before the 2007 summer recess. The resulting legislation lifts longstanding protections between government spying and Americans international communications. Congress' "Police America Act" now gives the NSA a blank check to wiretap Americans without judicial oversight.

I am all for protecting America but the changes made to the original provisions are too much power without checks and balances....that's all
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843937 --- 07/17/08 11:14 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Originally Posted By: senecamom
I am against the passing of the FISA ACT!


The FISA amendment of 2008 alreadsy did pass. The Protect America Act of 2007 expired in Febuary of 2008 so I dont get why you are talking about it in your first post.

The new bill right now is the 2008 amendment to the FISA law which has already beed passed through the house, senate, and signed into law by the president. It allows for 7 days of unwarranted wiretapping, after that a warrant is required. Before it was passed last week we were allowed only 48 hours according to the previous version on FISA.

I find it funny that you arent even talking about the right bill, lol. You are rallying against the bill from last year that already expired. Way to go, lol. Good demonstration of pure internet, copy and paste activism.

Get you facts straight then come back and try to make your arguement, which judging by this thread you will have a hard time doing.


_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843942 --- 07/17/08 11:34 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
All I am saying is that the continual stripping of the Fourth amendment is collectivley what is chipping away at what our Founding Fathers had in mind. The idea that government can straddle the definitions and use statements such as " reasonable suspicion", and that without any oversight, checks and balances, to keep them within the context of the Constitution, we are sacrificing what we as a nation have been fighting for all along. That is all I am worried about...
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is one of the provisions included in the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, and was designed as a response to the controversial writs of assistance (a type of general search warrant), which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution.

Toward that end, the amendment specifies that judicially sanctioned search and arrest warrants must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a peace officer) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court.
End of story, the bill passed.
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843945 --- 07/17/08 11:40 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Originally Posted By: senecamom
All I am saying is that the continual stripping of the Fourth amendment is collectivley what is chipping away at what our Founding Fathers had in mind. The idea that government can straddle the definitions and use statements such as " reasonable suspicion", and that without any oversight, checks and balances, to keep them within the context of the Constitution, we are sacrificing what we as a nation have been fighting for all along. That is all I am worried about...
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is one of the provisions included in the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, and was designed as a response to the controversial writs of assistance (a type of general search warrant), which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution.

Toward that end, the amendment specifies that judicially sanctioned search and arrest warrants must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a peace officer) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court.
End of story, the bill passed.


Thats not all you said. You came in here with a copy/paste from the ACLU site about opposition to a bill that passed last year and expired 6 months ago, lol. If you cant even get your own facts and claims straight why should anybody take you seriously?

Everyone wants to be an Internet activist around here. How about you go read the new FISA act and then make a decision instead of just reading what you see on TV and the Internet? The maybe you will be more informed and not come off as a fool.

And if you read the new act (which you obviously didnt) there is checks and balances, its called the need for the warrant after 7 days. That is a judicial branch check on the executive branch. The only thing up for debate really is the 7 day window and even that debate is done because the bill is now law.

The left hates this law but the best part is the lord barack obama, the savior of the left, voted for it. Hows that for change you can believe in?
_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843948 --- 07/17/08 11:49 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
There is much more up for debate and if you read it you would know the controversey is not only 7 days....

I am only ONE of the 65,000 people so far who are active in preserving OUR rights.

Your kids will be thankful for patriots like me A**HOLE
_________________________
~Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.~

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#843950 --- 07/17/08 11:51 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Duude]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: Duude
Exactly. Afterall, just because the government can eavesdrop on you without any warrant or probable cause does not mean you are any less free.

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Right?
(I think Stalin probably used that phrase at some point.)


"Conservatives will repeat endlessly that Americans who are doing nothing wrong have nothing to fear. If this argument held any water, there would have been no point in the Founding Fathers writing the Constitution." -- Paul Craig Roberts.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#843953 --- 07/17/08 11:55 PM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Senecamom]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Originally Posted By: senecamom
There is much more up for debate and if you read it you would know the controversey is not only 7 days....

I am only ONE of the 65,000 people so far who are active in preserving OUR rights.

Your kids will be thankful for patriots like me A**HOLE


If I read it? Are you serious? You couldnt even figure out which bill you were so against. Dont be mad at me because you couldnt even get the right bill.

I bet you are real active in preserving rights because posting threads with the wrong bills on the local web forum is real activist of you along with clicking petitions on the internet. The founders would be proud.

What else is up for debate from the new FISA bill then since now all of a sudden you know all about that? The amendments purpose was to establish the 7 day window and that was pretty much all it did so what else is to debate about it? Come on enlighten me please. Or will you resort to call me an a**hole again?

Patriot, lol, if thats what you call posting your thoughts from behind a keyboard on a web forum.
_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843958 --- 07/18/08 12:14 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Here is the introduced bill again in case you missed it. What other points would you like to inquire about?




6/19/2008--Introduced.
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008 or FISA Amendments Act of 2008 - Amends the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) to authorize the Attorney General (AG) and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) to jointly authorize the targeting (electronic surveillance) of persons located outside the United States in order to acquire foreign intelligence information, subject to specified requirements, including:
(1) prior certification to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Court); and
(2) certain targeting and minimization procedures. Authorizes:
(1) the AG and DNI to direct an electronic communication service provider (provider) to provide the government with all necessary assistance to accomplish the acquisition of information from targeted persons; and
(2) the provider to challenge such a directive through the Court. Requires the AG and DNI to conduct semiannual assessments of compliance with targeting and minimization procedures. Provides Court jurisdiction for approving the targeting of a U.S. person located outside the United States when the acquisition is conducted within the United States. Allows the AG to authorize an emergency acquisition of such a target in certain circumstances, upon application within seven days for a Court order authorizing the surveillance. Provides similar Court jurisdiction and outlines similar procedures for the acquisition (and emergency acquisition) of a physical search. Authorizes:
(1) joint applications and concurrent approvals of requests for acquisitions proposed to be conducted both inside and outside the United States; and
(2) concurrent authorizations of electronic surveillance and physical searches. Directs the AG to report semiannually to the intelligence and judiciary committees concerning the implementation of information acquisition requirements. States that, other than by express statutory authorization, FISA and the procedures of chapters 119 (Wire and Electronic Communications Interception and Interception of Oral Communications), 121 (Stored Wire and Electronic Communications and Transactional Records Access), and 206 (Pen Registers and Trap and Trace Devices) of the federal criminal code shall be the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance and the interception of domestic wire, oral, or electronic communications may be conducted. Requires the AG to submit semiannually to the intelligence committees copies of any orders of the Court or the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review that include significant construction or interpretation of FISA, including any such orders issued during the five-year period before the enactment of this Act. Requires the AG, after authorizing the installation and use of a pen register or trap and trace device on an emergency basis, to apply to the Court for an authorization order within seven days (current law requires 48 hours) after the emergency installation and use. Authorizes the Court to sit en banc when:
(1) necessary to secure or maintain uniformity of Court decisions; or
(2) the proceeding involves a question of exceptional importance. Authorizes the acquisition of foreign intelligence information from an entity not substantially composed of U.S. persons that is engaged in the international proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Provides certain protections for entities (including a provider, custodian, or landlord) providing surveillance assistance at the request of the AG or the intelligence community. Requires the review of surveillance actions conducted during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007.
_________________________
http://www.fingerlakescomputer.com
On Site and In Store Services for Homes and Businesses

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#843962 --- 07/18/08 12:47 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
La Revolucion Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Waterloo
Yea, thats how they get their foot in the door of your personal life with this 7 day BS. After that they will find a reason to spy on you more, even if it means making something up.

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#843966 --- 07/18/08 01:32 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: La Revolucion]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Speaking here at a political conference on Friday, Barr focused almost exclusively on privacy and eavesdropping–and argued that both major parties are far too surveillance-happy. “Both of them will continue down the same track,” Barr said, noting that both McCain and Obama supported last week’s bill to immunize telecommunications companies that illegally opened their networks to government snoops.

Congress’ legislative rewrite of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) is “not about surveilling al-Qaida,” Barr said. “It’s about surveilling U.S. citizens in America.” He added, for good measure: “This administration is the most anti-privacy, the most anti-individual freedom, in our nation’s history, certainly in my lifetime.”
[...]
Barr also likes to swipe at the Real ID Act, a law creating a federalized identity card that’s effectively on hold until December 31. “It was passed by the Congress not as a national ID, which it is in every way except a name,” he said. “It is a national ID for the first time in our nation’s history…If certain people were elected president, it would not go into effect.”

During the Libertarian Party’s presidential debate in Denver, the candidates were asked what they’d do about Real ID and the Patriot Act. Barr’s reply was captured on video by C-SPAN: “Fear has become the driving force behind all public policy in our country…(For the Patriot Act), I’d drive a stake through its heart, shoot it, burn it, cut off its head, burn it again, and scatter its ashes to the four corners of the world.”
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#843968 --- 07/18/08 01:49 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29709
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Thats not all you said. You came in here with a copy/paste from the ACLU site about opposition to a bill that passed last year and expired 6 months ago, lol. If you cant even get your own facts and claims straight why should anybody take you seriously?


senecamom ONLY cuts and pastes. And she doesn't bother citing sources, either. For example:

Originally Posted By: senecamom
All I am saying is that the continual stripping of the Fourth amendment is collectivley what is chipping away at what our Founding Fathers had in mind. The idea that government can straddle the definitions and use statements such as " reasonable suspicion", and that without any oversight, checks and balances, to keep them within the context of the Constitution, we are sacrificing what we as a nation have been fighting for all along. That is all I am worried about...
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is one of the provisions included in the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, and was designed as a response to the controversial writs of assistance (a type of general search warrant), which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution.

Toward that end, the amendment specifies that judicially sanctioned search and arrest warrants must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a peace officer) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court.
End of story, the bill passed.


...is a lot of stuff from MY FAVORITE, Wikipedia.

Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Everyone wants to be an Internet activist around here.


Including you, Mr. Yahoo-Internet-Search Results, Mr. Wikipedia-Citation-Boy.

Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
How about you go read the new FISA act and then make a decision instead of just reading what you see on TV and the Internet? The maybe you will be more informed and not come off as a fool.


Please don't ruin my fun!

She won't - I already asked her to post ONE THING that wasn't written by someone else. Still waiting.
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#843969 --- 07/18/08 01:50 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29709
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Patriot, lol, if thats what you call posting your thoughts from behind a keyboard on a web forum.


As opposed to writing anonymously on paper ?
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#843974 --- 07/18/08 02:29 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: past tense]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"
"Silence Dogood" has been pointed to as the mother of a rich history of anonymity in American journalism. What is true is that between April and October of 1722 New England Courant Publisher James Franklin printed 14 articles that had been slipped under his door.

The author "Silence Dogood" claimed to be the widow of a country minister, but Franklin suspected the name was a pseudonym for someone else. It was common for eighteenth century journalists, including Franklin's, to use pseudonyms when writing articles that the authorities might have been considered to be libelous or illegal.

Historical records infer that James Franklin knew the identities of his other pseudonymous contributors, but not that of "Silence Dogood." That failing was perhaps one of many reckless publishing decisions by Franklin, who soon served jail time for his own writings in the Courant and who the Boston authorities later banned from publishing newspapers. He was meanwhile not amused to learn that "Silence Dogood" was actually his 16-year-old brother and apprentice Benjamin Franklin.

Unlike James Franklin, American Weekly Mercury Publisher Andrew Bradford of Philadelphia knew before publication that "Caelia Shortface" and "Martha Careful" were pseudonyms for Ben Franklin, who had fled Boston and joined Bradford’s employ.

When Franklin himself later became a newspaper publisher, he occasionally published his own articles under the pseudonyms "Anthony Afterwit" and "Alice Addertongue." Yet the "Richard Saunders" of the eponymous book "Poor Richard's Almanac" was probably publisher Ben Franklin's best-known, self-permitted pseudonym.

There is a rich history of pseudonymity in American opinion journalism. Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay wrote "The Federalist Papers" using the pseudonym "Publius," but not without their publisher's prior permission and knowledge of their true identities. A more recent example occurred in 1947 when the publisher of Foreign Affairs granted the Moscow-based American diplomat George Kennan the pseudonym "X" to write the renowned political essay proposing the geographic containment of Communism.

Though I can't think of a current American periodical that regularly grants pseudonyms to its writers, the British publishers of the Financial Times and The Economist regularly grant them for some of their columnists.

In all the examples I've mentioned, the publishers not only knew the pseudonymous writers' true identities but also vetted the writers' submissions before publication. That's a far cry from publishing anonymous blog postings.

Though there is a rich history of pseudonymity in American journalism, there is none of anonymity. It has long been understood that if the publisher of a reputable periodical grants a writer use of a pseudonym, then that publisher knows the writer's true identity and takes responsibility -- legal and otherwise -- for that writer's words."


"A Conversation on Slavery

On January 30, 1770, an annonymous missive, entitled A Conversation on Slavery appeared in the Public Advertiser, a Philadelphia newspaper. Written in the style of three individuals -- an Englishman, an American, and a Scotsman -- having a discussion concerning the problem of slavery and the slave trade, the three present a daming testimony of the moral failings of each participant's society. The American character is forced to deflect criticisms from his two companions about the practice of keeping slaves while still clamoring for political liberty at home, turns the tables on the Scot and Englishman by pointing out that their own societies kept men in bondage in the same manner as Americans kept African-Americans. A Conversation would remain an anonymous writing until 1934, when its authorship was proven to belong to one of America's Founding Fathers: Benjamin Franklin. The Conversation is considered the turning point in Franklin's long relationship with the institution of slavery away from his younger years as a slave owner, to an abolitionist."
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#844036 --- 07/18/08 06:19 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: La Revolucion]
Al Kida Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 3102
Originally Posted By: La Revolucion
You republicans always praise how free you are in this country, not even realising we are all becoming prisoners. You republicans consider yourselves true Americans right?



Yes!!!

Is all republicans fault!!!

Forget fact majority of congress are Democrats!!!

Is republicans fault!!!
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#844075 --- 07/18/08 07:45 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: past tense]
Brad ONeill Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 567
Loc: Seneca Falls NY
Originally Posted By: past tense
Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Patriot, lol, if thats what you call posting your thoughts from behind a keyboard on a web forum.


As opposed to writing anonymously on paper ?


No, as opposed to actually doing something of value.
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#844118 --- 07/18/08 09:54 AM Re: FISA Unlimited spying.... [Re: Brad ONeill]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29709
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Originally Posted By: past tense
Originally Posted By: Brad ONeill
Patriot, lol, if thats what you call posting your thoughts from behind a keyboard on a web forum.


As opposed to writing anonymously on paper ?


No, as opposed to actually doing something of value.


Frankly, you have no idea if she's also doing anything that you would deem "of value" just as none of us have any idea if you are doing anything besides "posting your thoughts from behind a keyboard on a web forum".

Calling the kettle black a lot in this thread, aren't we Brad?
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