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#772399 --- 03/17/08 03:38 AM You decide
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
What should be done with these parents:

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A state witness on Friday took the stand at the sentencing hearing for woman who kept her teenage son caged in her Jacksonville home and called the incident the worst case of child abuse she's ever seen.

Last month, Brenda Sullivan pleaded guilty to three counts of aggravated child abuse. Prosecutors agreed to drop lesser child-neglect charges.

On Friday, her sentencing trial began.

She and her late husband had claimed they put the adopted boy in a caged crib at night on the advice of a doctor in Ohio, where the couple once lived.

Prosecutors said the boy at age 17 weighed less than 49 pounds when he was taken from the Sullivans' custody.

A police report said the boy was starving and suffered psychosocial dwarfism -- a lack of physical and emotional growth caused by abuse. Authorities also say he was forced to wear a diaper.

In court, assistant state attorney Julie Schlax said Sullivan constructed a wood lid to put on top of a Pedia-Crib and she claimed Sullivan would lock her son inside.

"She did not give them education and love, but most importantly she starved them," Sullivan said.

Prosecutors said Sullivan's adopted son weighed 49 pounds when he moved in with her at age 7. In 2005, 10 years later, they said he weighed less than 49 pounds.

Since her arrest, Sullivan has insisted a doctor prescribed the Pedia-Crib to keep what she called her unruly son under control.

That doctor took the stand on Friday and told the court the crib was recommended, but he said that was only for at night, for short periods of time when her son was a child. The doctor also said the crib never should have a homemade lid on it or been used for a teenager.

The lawyer appointed by the state to oversee Sullivan's children told the judge this is the worst case of abuse she has ever seen.

"They will never live a normal life. They will never live a life free from fear. They will never cease to be haunted by the memories of what was done to them," said guardian ad-litem Janet Wilkerson.

Prosecutors said the teen has made remarkable strides since being removed from Sullivan's home.

Sullivan faces up to 20 years in prison.
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#772406 --- 03/17/08 03:43 AM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
AnneSmile Offline
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OMG, only twenty years?

I am at a loss for words, this is just too horrific.
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#772407 --- 03/17/08 03:44 AM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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20 years in prison....I cannot write what I would do to them on here, but it would be painful and humiliating at the least...
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#772413 --- 03/17/08 04:13 AM Re: You decide [Re: AnneSmile]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
OMG, only twenty years?

I am at a loss for words, this is just too horrific.


Well, if you can't decide, they'll just have to be let go. Is that your final answer?
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#772421 --- 03/17/08 04:47 AM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
AbuDhabi Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
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Loc: Doha, Qatar
I would not advocate that she be kept in a cage herself for the same amount of time that she locked up the boy. RF would accuse me of being sadistic and cruel.
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#772422 --- 03/17/08 04:55 AM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
AnneSmile Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
OMG, only twenty years?

I am at a loss for words, this is just too horrific.


Well, if you can't decide, they'll just have to be let go. Is that your final answer?


No it is not, I know 20 years is nothing compared to what she did. There is nothing that could be done to her that would compare to the years of torture this poor child went through.

Life in prison perhaps, she took his life (not by death, some would say worse then death). I could think of other ways that are not court approved but then my post would be deleted.


Edited by AnneSmile (03/17/08 04:57 AM)
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One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#772426 --- 03/17/08 05:44 AM Re: You decide [Re: AnneSmile]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
It seems as if we might as well say anything at all, sometimes, because lately, there doesn't seem to be any ryhmn or reason, or rule to remember, to explain why some posts are deleted. I've seen several posters left in a bewildered state.

I had one deleted; it could have been seen to have contained an expletive, but I used 2 asterisks so that it wasn't even a real word, and that got zapped.

I'd tell you what I think, but then it would amount to the waste of a perfectly good title, "YOU decide", which I'd been saving; I hadn't even taken it out of the box until today.
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#772499 --- 03/17/08 12:33 PM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
FL1 Mod 2 Offline

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Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 340
Loc: Finger Lakes
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
It seems as if we might as well say anything at all, sometimes, because lately, there doesn't seem to be any ryhmn or reason, or rule to remember, to explain why some posts are deleted. I've seen several posters left in a bewildered state.

I had one deleted; it could have been seen to have contained an expletive, but I used 2 asterisks so that it wasn't even a real word, and that got zapped.

I'd tell you what I think, but then it would amount to the waste of a perfectly good title, "YOU decide", which I'd been saving; I hadn't even taken it out of the box until today.


There's always a reason, either a complaint from a fellow poster of it being offensive, the use of language or even the implied or abbreviated use of some words. Are you sure you didn’t quote something that was deleted previously? What’s really sad is when someone has something important to say on a subject matter and because they can not muster the brain power to use adjectives other than swear words, the post gets canned. I personally have been very patient with editing people, changing the offensive words or phrases while still leaving the message intact. But there are times when it is easier to delete the whole post.

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#772533 --- 03/17/08 02:01 PM Re: You decide [Re: AbuDhabi]
SkySoldier Offline
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Registered: 08/18/01
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Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
I would not advocate that she be kept in a cage herself for the same amount of time that she locked up the boy. RF would accuse me of being sadistic and cruel.


But, you ARE sadistic and cruel.





;\)
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We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

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#772534 --- 03/17/08 02:05 PM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
Jelloshot Offline
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Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 11043
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First of all there's only one parent left the other died. 20 years in prison? 40 would be better. Have her work released to work (supervised of course) with severly handicapped children for the rest of her life.

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#772609 --- 03/17/08 03:37 PM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
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Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Unless your on the jury...you won't be deciding anything.
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#772700 --- 03/17/08 07:41 PM Re: You decide [Re: FL1 Mod 2]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"What’s really sad is when someone has something important to say on a subject matter and because they can not muster the brain power to use adjectives other than swear words, the post gets canned. I personally have been very patient with editing people, changing the offensive words or phrases while still leaving the message intact. But there are times when it is easier to delete the whole post."

You didn't delete the whole post, thank you, and you've given an answer to a question many have wondered about; thanks again.

I haven't had much deleted, and so haven't much complaint, but others have, and many have wondered if there's a new policy.

In my own case, people were discussing the Spitzer case, and how expensive the girl was. Scottie2hottie opined that he could have hired her for $737, or some similar price. I immediately thought of "frequent flyer miles", and in the context of the discussion, I thought it'd be funny to replace "flyer' with the Maximum Anglo Saxon Expletive. MASE, if you will.

I replaced 2 letters wih asterisks, because I'd often seen that allowed, or thought I had; perhaps you just missed all those instances, and it wasn't allowed all along. I'm sorry if I offended you.

In this particular case, I like to believe that it didn't demonstrate a lack of brain power, but the presence of wit; the use of the word, in the context of the subject of the bantering discussion, WAS the joke, and it could only be done that way.

I agree that the word, when used constantly as an adjective, is unnecessary, aggressively offensive, and unimaginative, but I don't agree that the mere use of slang to describe that act is, per se, offensive, nor do I think sex is "dirty", or that it shouldn't ever be referred to; it's a common and normal human activity.

I would also agree that the use of such unnecessary, confrontational, insulting phrases as "FU" should be forbidden. However, I think such phrases as "And as a result, he's now truly f*****" are not offensive.

It's a powerful word, and should be used sparingly, if for no other reason than that we need powerful words in the language, so why unnecessarily dilute their power by overuse and familiarity?

Those are my opinions, but I realize that I don't own the business, and that you must do as you see proper.


Edited by VM Smith (03/17/08 07:47 PM)
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#772706 --- 03/17/08 07:51 PM Re: You decide [Re: SkySoldier]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
I would not advocate that she be kept in a cage herself for the same amount of time that she locked up the boy. RF would accuse me of being sadistic and cruel.


But, you ARE sadistic and cruel.





;\)


Call a spade a spade, I say.

Relax, everyone; that was a card metaphor, and not a use of racial slang. No need to get excited; nothing to see here.
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#772780 --- 03/17/08 10:25 PM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
boxer Offline
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Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 468
Loc: Seneca Falls
Ha! \:D
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#773117 --- 03/18/08 10:34 AM Re: You decide [Re: SkySoldier]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
I would not advocate that she be kept in a cage herself for the same amount of time that she locked up the boy. RF would accuse me of being sadistic and cruel.


But, you ARE sadistic and cruel.





;\)


Well, okay, put the b**** in a cage, then. Let her atrophy.
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#773300 --- 03/18/08 04:36 PM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
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Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Call a spade a spade, I say.



Or a shovel a shovel or a rake a rake. Garden hose a garden hose.
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#773324 --- 03/18/08 05:07 PM Re: You decide [Re: FL1 Mod 2]
AbuDhabi Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: FL1 Mod 2
There's always a reason, either a complaint from a fellow poster of it being offensive, the use of language or even the implied or abbreviated use of some words.


Implied use of a word? As in gee instead of "Jesus Christ", or freak instead of the f-word? There's a reason why people use euphemisms: It is to avoid use of more explicit language.

And complainers are weenies.
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#773375 --- 03/18/08 06:27 PM Re: You decide [Re: AbuDhabi]
Offline
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Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 17154
There was construction going on near the convent, and the construction workers used lots of profanity. One of the young novices went to see the mother superior because it bothered her. The mother superior said, "Don't be upset, dear, just think of them as men who call a spade a spade."

"No, they don't, they call it a implied word shovel !"

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#773520 --- 03/18/08 09:27 PM Re: You decide [Re: AbuDhabi]
SkySoldier Offline
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Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
I would not advocate that she be kept in a cage herself for the same amount of time that she locked up the boy. RF would accuse me of being sadistic and cruel.


But, you ARE sadistic and cruel.


;\)



Well, okay, put the b**** in a cage, then. Let her atrophy.


How'd I miss this jewel? A cage it is then. \:\)


Would that be with, or without starving rats?
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#773845 --- 03/19/08 06:33 AM Re: You decide [Re: Taxpayer14456]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Call a spade a spade, I say.



Or a shovel a shovel or a rake a rake. Garden hose a garden hose.


You're right, and I made an assumption. I'd capitalize 3 letters there, but it's probably an offense that'll cause a deletion.


Edited by VM Smith (03/19/08 06:41 AM)
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#773848 --- 03/19/08 06:37 AM Re: You decide [Re: AbuDhabi]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: FL1 Mod 2
There's always a reason, either a complaint from a fellow poster of it being offensive, the use of language or even the implied or abbreviated use of some words.


Implied use of a word? As in gee instead of "Jesus Christ", or freak instead of the f-word? There's a reason why people use euphemisms: It is to avoid use of more explicit language.

And complainers are weenies.


Don't forget "gosh", "darn"; they're probably forbidden by the same "logic". In fact, if we can't suggest words, we should probably be careful about even thinking them, simply because they're evil.
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#773849 --- 03/19/08 06:40 AM Re: You decide [Re: ]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
""No, they don't, they call it a implied word shovel !""

Did they get deleted?
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#773897 --- 03/19/08 11:30 AM Re: You decide [Re: VM Smith]
Redbutch Offline
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Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: VM Smith


Sullivan faces up to 20 years in prison.



Sometimes I think we should bring back public hangings. Go ahead, comment away....
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#773956 --- 03/19/08 01:33 PM Re: You decide [Re: Redbutch]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
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Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: Redbutch
Sometimes I think we should bring back public hangings. Go ahead, comment away....



Can you imagine how many state workers it would take to build the gallows? 1 to actually build it and 3 to sit in the truck.
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#774021 --- 03/19/08 03:21 PM Re: You decide [Re: Taxpayer14456]
queenbee Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 1758
Loc: soul quest
FL1 MOd 2 you seem to be doing alot of deleting and splainin lately why is that? A few ppl have noticed and commented on some of these actions, and are these "complainers" always the same ones? If so wouldn't you look at that too? Just askin. How can anyone be offended by the implied use of a word if these complainers didn't already "know" the words how would they know what was being implied? So obviuosly they have heard them before,huh?
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#774036 --- 03/19/08 03:40 PM Re: You decide [Re: queenbee]
FL1 Mod 2 Offline

Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 340
Loc: Finger Lakes
Actually it's been relatively quiet as far as deleting and editing goes.
I've offered explanations simply because I hope that people would learn, and the swearing or implied swearing has decreased dramatically as of late.
The owner has expressed over and over and over what is allowed and what isn’t.
No, the complainers are rarely "the same ones" as you put it.

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#774039 --- 03/19/08 03:47 PM Re: You decide [Re: FL1 Mod 2]
queenbee Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 1758
Loc: soul quest
Isn't that like punishing someone for what they "meant" to do?
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#774042 --- 03/19/08 03:52 PM Re: You decide [Re: queenbee]
FL1 Mod 2 Offline

Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 340
Loc: Finger Lakes
If you’re referring to implied words no, they meant to swear, and they did, only they abbreviated it, no difference.

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#774085 --- 03/19/08 05:47 PM Re: You decide [Re: FL1 Mod 2]
AbuDhabi Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: FL1 Mod 2
If you’re referring to implied words no, they meant to swear, and they did, only they abbreviated it, no difference.


I wouldn't want to be accused of ARGUING WITH A MODERATOR, but, yes, there is a difference. Somebody who uses initials or a euphemism is exercising a modicum of self-control in the hope of avoiding giving offense. Somebody who just goes ahead and uses the whole word is saying that s/h/it doesn't care who s/h/it offends. You MUST be able to see that difference - ?
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#774086 --- 03/19/08 05:49 PM Re: You decide [Re: queenbee]
AbuDhabi Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: queenbee
Isn't that like punishing someone for what they "meant" to do?


It's more like punishing someone for what they meant not to do.
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#774090 --- 03/19/08 05:51 PM Re: You decide [Re: AbuDhabi]
The Brain Offline
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Loc: Looking to deport Rappers.
Are people punished in America for plotting to murder someone, or are they allowed to progress as far as they want until they actually murder someone?
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#774206 --- 03/19/08 10:18 PM Re: You decide [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Redbutch Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456
Originally Posted By: Redbutch
Sometimes I think we should bring back public hangings. Go ahead, comment away....



Can you imagine how many state workers it would take to build the gallows? 1 to actually build it and 3 to sit in the truck.


As a state employee I resemble that remark. Of course you forgot the person assigned to do the paperwork. And to mention that the one building it is probably a temporary employee with no benefits. But they would have the prisoners paint it as part of work release.
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#774278 --- 03/20/08 12:41 AM Re: You decide [Re: The Brain]
queenbee Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 1758
Loc: soul quest
Originally Posted By: The Brain
Are people punished in America for plotting to murder someone, or are they allowed to progress as far as they want until they actually murder someone?


Actually Brain I think you can be punished in some way for "plotting" a crime. Is this what we are doing?
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#774280 --- 03/20/08 12:51 AM Re: You decide [Re: The Brain]
AnneSmile Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
Originally Posted By: The Brain
Are people punished in America for plotting to murder someone, or are they allowed to progress as far as they want until they actually murder someone?


Conspiracy to commit murder and it can carry an equal sentence as murder itself, look at Mansion
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One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#774282 --- 03/20/08 12:59 AM Re: You decide [Re: AbuDhabi]
queenbee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 1758
Loc: soul quest
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: FL1 Mod 2
If you’re referring to implied words no, they meant to swear, and they did, only they abbreviated it, no difference.


I wouldn't want to be accused of ARGUING WITH A MODERATOR, but, yes, there is a difference. Somebody who uses initials or a euphemism is exercising a modicum of self-control in the hope of avoiding giving offense. Somebody who just goes ahead and uses the whole word is saying that s/h/it doesn't care who s/h/it offends. You MUST be able to see that difference - ?


Now that is suggesting that you know what that poster was thinking at the time. Not everyone interprets things the same and is it possible to be mistaken---of course. I just don't see letters and symbols as offensive,but maybe some do---obviously.
I was under the impression this was mostly intelligent adults posting but I have been wrong before.
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#774349 --- 03/20/08 04:32 AM Re: You decide [Re: The Brain]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: The Brain
Are people punished in America for plotting to murder someone, or are they allowed to progress as far as they want until they actually murder someone?


Is anybody here plotting a murder?
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