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#750673 --- 02/11/08 12:05 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Eomer]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
I am not an authority on anything, I was asking others for ideas.

Originally Posted By: Eomer
True, but those people had mental health issues to begin with.

Popular culture does not cause it, popular culture is one part of the environment in which a bad seed is nourished and begins to grow.


What are some of the other factors besides popular culture that nourish the crazies?

Maybe no one has the answer and that is why I wasted 4 pages on trying to find them with discussion.

All I wanted to know is why do people think killing innocent others and themselves will help anything, where did they get that ignorant idea?

As for the killer kitty, thought is was funny, in a sarcastic way, due to the subject at hand.
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One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#750681 --- 02/11/08 12:18 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
Eomer Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 12903
Loc: Temporarily Assigned
Message boards?

Am I getting warm?
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Temporarily reassigned.

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#750685 --- 02/11/08 12:21 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Eomer]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
Smart Alec LOL
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One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#750773 --- 02/11/08 04:23 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
sorry, you must be educated by monkeys, wait they could follow.

If you don't understand then why continue to read this thread, go throw poop, it is legal for monkeys to do so so the PYPD would not bother you


Hey! That's more like it. Welcome to the forums.
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"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#750777 --- 02/11/08 04:28 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
I am not an authority on anything, I was asking others for ideas.

Originally Posted By: Eomer
True, but those people had mental health issues to begin with.

Popular culture does not cause it, popular culture is one part of the environment in which a bad seed is nourished and begins to grow.


What are some of the other factors besides popular culture that nourish the crazies?


I think that all of this builds on a foundation of natural, inborn tendencies: We tend to be defensive, to overgeneralize others' behavior as threatening, etc. Look at a group of toddlers playing; what you see there is what is inside all of us. As we mature, we learn to moderate the tendency to act out our feelings -- or we don't. It takes a lot of guidance to reach social maturity successfully. A lot of people don't get that guidance.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#750790 --- 02/11/08 06:31 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"what do you think causes people to kill innocent people and why do they feel justified in doing so"

There's probably a behavioral "why?", but maybe there doesn't have to be a justification. Maybe that's just how we are, and how we act. Do we worry about how the other apes justify their behavior, even though we guess that we know why they do things"

"Justify" has to do with "justice" and the concept of justice is very recently acquired, in our species of ape; a very thin and tenuous veneer over a very rough piece of wood. It's sort of like putting lipstick on an ape and expecting it to stay neat and presentable.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#750817 --- 02/11/08 08:20 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: VM Smith]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
"what do you think causes people to kill innocent people and why do they feel justified in doing so"

There's probably a behavioral "why?", but maybe there doesn't have to be a justification. Maybe that's just how we are, and how we act. Do we worry about how the other apes justify their behavior, even though we guess that we know why they do things"

"Justify" has to do with "justice" and the concept of justice is very recently acquired, in our species of ape; a very thin and tenuous veneer over a very rough piece of wood. It's sort of like putting lipstick on an ape and expecting it to stay neat and presentable.


That's a perspective that explains a lot. I think that a lot of us, socialized as we are, forget that what we can see is only the top layer.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#751121 --- 02/11/08 06:57 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi


It takes a lot of guidance to reach social maturity successfully. A lot of people don't get that guidance.


So then how do we give and get the guidance? Or is this a lost cause since there are so many more people now in the world.

I know there will always be, sad to say, violence in the world and since there are more people in the world we see more violence.

Originally Posted By: VM Smith


There's probably a behavioral "why?", but maybe there doesn't have to be a justification. Maybe that's just how we are, and how we act. Do we worry about how the other apes justify their behavior, even though we guess that we know why they do things"

"Justify" has to do with "justice" and the concept of justice is very recently acquired, in our species of ape; a very thin and tenuous veneer over a very rough piece of wood. It's sort of like putting lipstick on an ape and expecting it to stay neat and presentable.


Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi

That's a perspective that explains a lot. I think that a lot of us, socialized as we are, forget that what we can see is only the top layer.


This scares me too, "maybe it is just who we are"

The top layer is so deceiving, I know people have thought I was this or that just by looking at me and they were so wrong. Don't judge a book by its cover they say. But we do, and as we all know it gets us in trouble. We judge someone who may not dress as we would so he must be a criminal, or the guy in a suit we think must have it together. When in actuality they poorly dressed man is the good one and the one in the suit is the killer.

Maybe we are all apes wearing lipstick.
_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#751124 --- 02/11/08 07:02 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
Eomer Offline
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Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 12903
Loc: Temporarily Assigned
I only see Abu and Makolig? are there more?
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#751132 --- 02/11/08 07:11 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi


It takes a lot of guidance to reach social maturity successfully. A lot of people don't get that guidance.


So then how do we give and get the guidance? Or is this a lost cause since there are so many more people now in the world.


Door number two. I cannot believe that mankind will ever find a way to get itself out of the traps set by its own nature. There is hope for individuals, but not for the great mass. We cannot stop being what we are. And evolution only aims at helping us reproduce; it does not aim at making us happy.
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"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#751133 --- 02/11/08 07:13 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Eomer]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: Eomer
I only see Abu and Makolig? are there more?


I am not wearing lipstick. Not even on special days.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#751134 --- 02/11/08 07:14 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Eomer]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
Originally Posted By: Eomer
I only see Abu and Makolig? are there more?


_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#751139 --- 02/11/08 07:18 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi

Door number two. I cannot believe that mankind will ever find a way to get itself out of the traps set by its own nature. There is hope for individuals, but not for the great mass. We cannot stop being what we are. And evolution only aims at helping us reproduce; it does not aim at making us happy.


Sad but true.

So then, should we expect more killings in small towns and school across the country because we are what we are and the population is so much greater now?
_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#751185 --- 02/11/08 09:06 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
Eomer Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 12903
Loc: Temporarily Assigned
Reminds me of the story about the frog and the scorpion I knew from childhood.

One day a scorpion was looking to cross a stream when he happened upon a frog.

“Frog!” the scorpion called out “Could you carry me to the other side of the stream?”

“No! Scorpion”, replied the frog

“Why, may I ask?” asked the scorpion

“Because you will surly sting me.”, said the frog.

The Scorpion replied, “If I were to sting you, you would sink and I would drown. I would not sting you.

The frog paused in thought and said, “That sounds logical, I would be happy to help you. I’ll come over to the bank, you can climb on board and we will be off to the other side. Perhaps one day you might even return the favor.”

The Scorpion smiled with a reassuring nod and proceeded to climb on board the frog. As the two crossed the river, the frog felt a sense of accomplishment in helping the scorpion. He even felt this may be a great new beginning of brotherhood and camaraderie between all frogs and scorpions.

Suddenly, about half way across the stream, the frog felt a searing pain deep into his back as the scorpion thrust his sharp jagged hook into the his flesh. As he felt his legs go cold and numb, he cried out in agonizing pain, “WHY? WHY WOULD YOU STING ME IF YOU TILL WILL DIE TOO? YOU SAID YOU WOULD NOT STINK ME?

As the scorpion began to sink below the surface atop the back of the convulsing frog he said, “I can’t help it. It’s in my nature”

Without education and self discipline, we are all only animals.
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#751433 --- 02/12/08 04:55 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi

Door number two. I cannot believe that mankind will ever find a way to get itself out of the traps set by its own nature. There is hope for individuals, but not for the great mass. We cannot stop being what we are. And evolution only aims at helping us reproduce; it does not aim at making us happy.


Sad but true.

So then, should we expect more killings in small towns and school across the country because we are what we are and the population is so much greater now?


We should expect more killings because they have become a part of the status quo. "Columbine" and "going postal" are metonyms for a type of personal expression that is swiftly becoming ACCEPTABLE in our culture. The size of the population is not a causal factor, although it will figure in our seeing a higher number of these events.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#751723 --- 02/12/08 06:36 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
So, because it is the status quo there is nothing more that can be done about it?

Do not get me wrong, there have been people who lost their jobs because others felt threatened by them and there was no reason to feel threatened. People are jumpy and have every right to be. Then you have the VT killings, the killer had a history of mental illness and teachers had concerns about him but the police could not do anything since nothing violent or illegal had occurred, to their knowledge.

So I guess there is no easy way to tell the difference between someone is upset with regular frustration from someone who is going to go 'postal'.

I do not know what I am trying to say, I guess I was hoping I was missing something and someone could tell me how we as a society can help the problem instead of becoming desensitized to it all.
_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#751774 --- 02/12/08 08:07 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
So, because it is the status quo there is nothing more that can be done about it?

[...]

I do not know what I am trying to say, I guess I was hoping I was missing something and someone could tell me how we as a society can help the problem instead of becoming desensitized to it all.


The answer to all of our social problems is contained in the notion of "poitical will". Where there is political will, almost anything is possible. We put people up on the moon, didn't we?

And where there is no political will, you may as well be whistlin' Dixie.

Have you heard any of our illustrious presidential wannabes speaking out in favor of a new deal for the mentally ill or of a personal commitment to make safety in our schools the nation's overriding priority?
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"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#751807 --- 02/12/08 09:45 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"Have you heard any of our illustrious presidential wannabes speaking out in favor of a new deal for the mentally ill or of a personal commitment to make safety in our schools the nation's overriding priority?"

Wouldn't that distract us from the gay marriage problem?
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#752026 --- 02/13/08 08:06 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: VM Smith]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
"Have you heard any of our illustrious presidential wannabes speaking out in favor of a new deal for the mentally ill or of a personal commitment to make safety in our schools the nation's overriding priority?"

Wouldn't that distract us from the gay marriage problem?


That and the tax rebate.

One of the reasons our "leaders" can get away with being irresponsible is because we the people are intently focused on nonsense.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#752126 --- 02/13/08 01:18 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
stargatersg1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 993
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
"Have you heard any of our illustrious presidential wannabes speaking out in favor of a new deal for the mentally ill or of a personal commitment to make safety in our schools the nation's overriding priority?"

Wouldn't that distract us from the gay marriage problem?


That and the tax rebate.

One of the reasons our "leaders" can get away with being irresponsible is because we the people are intently focused on nonsense.



The politicians are trying to please EVERYONE that complains to them and eventually they are running around in circles and NOTHING gets done.
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