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#748833 --- 02/08/08 07:16 AM Five shot to death at City Council meeting
AnneSmile Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
# NEW: Newspaper: Gunman had filed lawsuit on right to speak at meetings
# NEW: Gunman's brother says "my brother went to war tonight"
# Gunman who opens fire at meeting also killed
# Two of those killed were police officers; three were city employees

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/07/city.council.shooting/index.html

....
A correspondent for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Janet McNichols, who was in the city council meeting when the shooting took place, identified the gunman as Charles Lee Thornton, the newspaper reported.

Thornton sued the city of Kirkwood after he was arrested twice for disorderly conduct at two council meetings in 2006. He was later convicted, according to the First Amendment Center, a group that says it works to preserve First Amendment freedoms.

According to a Thursday article written by the center -- before the shooting -- Thornton asked to speak during public-comment portions of 2006 meetings on specific topics, but instead spoke on what he alleged was harassment of him by city officials.
....
In the lawsuit, Thornton said his First Amendment rights had been violated. However, U.S. District Judge Catherine Perry said in a January 28 ruling that the public-comment portion of a meeting could be reserved for certain groups and topics of discussion.
....


Edited by AnneSmile (02/08/08 07:19 AM)
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#748834 --- 02/08/08 08:07 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
I guess he showed 'em. They won't be pushing him around anymore. No siree.
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#748995 --- 02/08/08 02:35 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
stargatersg1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 993
Loc: Geneva, NY


Nothing or no place is safe anymore. A person has to watch out what they say or do to anyone now....Jeez..now I know why i don't like guns, but of course, guns don't kill people..people kill people....

Strange scary world today...
....


Edited by stargatersg1 (02/08/08 02:35 PM)
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#749010 --- 02/08/08 03:02 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: stargatersg1]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
This could happen anywhere.
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Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#749092 --- 02/08/08 05:40 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Taxpayer14456]
dbig Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 799
Loc: Geneva
Saw headlines, but this was not Geneva council!!

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#749236 --- 02/08/08 09:00 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: dbig]
AnneSmile Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
No it was not in Geneva or even NY; it was in MO. I posted it because it could happen anywhere and a sad story.

Heated arguments getting out of control, understatement I know.

Tempers flare and people not listening to each other and only hearing what they want to hear, sound familiar?
_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#749460 --- 02/09/08 01:26 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
Sweetcakes Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3031
Loc: Southeast of Disorder
Thought that only happen in the postal world.

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#749549 --- 02/09/08 03:18 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
No it was not in Geneva or even NY; it was in MO. I posted it because it could happen anywhere and a sad story.

Heated arguments getting out of control, understatement I know.

Tempers flare and people not listening to each other and only hearing what they want to hear, sound familiar?


Thornton was listening. He apparently didn't like what he heard, though.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#749554 --- 02/09/08 03:24 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: stargatersg1]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"guns don't kill people..people kill people"

Exactly right. In this case, the person was named Thornton, not Sam Colt. If he hadn't had a gun, he could have used a bomb, a machete, or a great, huge, freakin' SUV, for a little sidewalk bowling.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#749558 --- 02/09/08 03:34 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: VM Smith]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
What I do not understand is how do people become so upset and frustrated that they feel the 'need' to go to extremes and kill innocent people. Almost happened at the Superbowl but the man came to his 'senses' and turned himself over to the authorities.

Apparently he had issues with the Mayor and Board members but instead of discussing the issues he would engage in personal attacks on the city officials. How does that help any and what was the point?

No matter what his issue was, why kill innocent people? I know this is an old story and unfortunately we will continue to see this type of crime, I just wanted to here people's thoughts and opinions on it.

Have you ever been so angered that you went into a blind rage?
_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#749572 --- 02/09/08 04:03 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"Have you ever been so angered that you went into a blind rage?"

No, but some people have 6 blind rages before breakfast.

"What I do not understand is how do people become so upset and frustrated that they feel the 'need' to go to extremes and kill innocent people."

If you're sane, and most people are, you never will understand it.

Even the whackos probably never understand why they do these things; they just listen to the voices.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#749584 --- 02/09/08 04:24 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: VM Smith]
AnneSmile Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9955
Loc: Amusement
It just seems to happen more and more. I used to try and tell myself that with mass media and internet that we just hear about it more.
_________________________
One resolution I have made, and try always to keep, is this: To rise above the little things.

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#749604 --- 02/09/08 06:03 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
Sweetcakes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3031
Loc: Southeast of Disorder
No just more people in the world!
You are right though. Nothing seems hush hush any more.

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#749605 --- 02/09/08 06:30 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Here's the biggest school killing to date, which happened in 1927, when the US population was 119,000,000. It's now over 300,000,000, so there are even more whackos around:

Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, USA, on May 18, 1927, which killed 45 people and injured 58. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7-12 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history. The perpetrator was school board member Andrew Kehoe, who was upset by a property tax that had been levied to fund the construction of the school building. He blamed the additional tax for financial hardships which led to foreclosure proceedings against his farm. These events apparently provoked Kehoe to plan his attack.

On the morning of May 18, Kehoe first killed his wife and then set his farm buildings on fire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many of the people inside. Kehoe used a detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers started gathering at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and detonated a bomb inside his shrapnel-filled vehicle, killing himself and the school superintendent, and killing and injuring several others. During the rescue efforts, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the school's south wing.
Contents
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#749639 --- 02/09/08 09:00 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AnneSmile]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
What I do not understand is how do people become so upset and frustrated that they feel the 'need' to go to extremes and kill innocent people.


One factor, I believe, is that the rage, frustration, and self-righteousness are fed by our culture. Look at the number of movies where "the good guy" gets pissed off and does some damage.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#749643 --- 02/09/08 09:05 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
Eomer Offline
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Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 12903
Loc: Temporarily Assigned
True, but those people had mental health issues to begin with.

Popular culture does not cause it, popular culture is one part of the environment in which a bad seed is nourished and begins to grow.
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Temporarily reassigned.

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#749678 --- 02/09/08 11:54 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Eomer]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: Eomer
True, but those people had mental health issues to begin with.

Popular culture does not cause it, popular culture is one part of the environment in which a bad seed is nourished and begins to grow.


I think we also have to tecognize that a large proportion of our population gets the greater part of their education from televison and movies. And most shooters seem to be fairly young; they don't have much real-world experience to balance out the foolishness that they see on the tube. Also, I think that a lot of people grow up thinking that what they see in the media is real life.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#749679 --- 02/09/08 11:55 AM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: Eomer]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: Eomer
True, but those people had mental health issues to begin with.


Then why aren't they getting help?
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#749712 --- 02/09/08 01:36 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
Eomer Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 12903
Loc: Temporarily Assigned
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: Eomer
True, but those people had mental health issues to begin with.

Popular culture does not cause it, popular culture is one part of the environment in which a bad seed is nourished and begins to grow.


I think we also have to tecognize that a large proportion of our population gets the greater part of their education from televison and movies. And most shooters seem to be fairly young; they don't have much real-world experience to balance out the foolishness that they see on the tube. Also, I think that a lot of people grow up thinking that what they see in the media is real life.


Agreed, and in part answers your question in your second post.

A fals sense of reality makes it difficult to recognize there is a problem.
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#749795 --- 02/09/08 05:17 PM Re: Five shot to death at City Council meeting [Re: AbuDhabi]
Reinhart Faust Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/19/03
Posts: 6953
Loc: This Island Earth
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: AnneSmile
What I do not understand is how do people become so upset and frustrated that they feel the 'need' to go to extremes and kill innocent people.


One factor, I believe, is that the rage, frustration, and self-righteousness are fed by our culture. Look at the number of movies where "the good guy" gets pissed off and does some damage.


Good point. It's been a long time since I've seen a movie or show where the hero wasn't expected to bust heads once in a while. Whatever happened to heroes like Atticus Finch? Today, a movie like To Kill a Mockingbird would be a critical success, but would tank at the box office. The average American doesn't want quiet, dignified, intelligent, non-violent heroes. People want Rambo, John McClane and the 300 Spartans. Is it a surprise that nearly a quarter of Americans think that it's acceptable to use violence to get what they want?
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