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#699002 --- 11/30/07 07:19 AM Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade
newsman38 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4945
Loc: Fourth Estate
Study rips failing public-defender systems in some Upstate counties

Public defenders in some Upstate counties are failing to provide adequate legal representation to the poor, an advocacy group charged Thursday.

Niagara, Ontario, Schuyler, Tioga, Washington and Cattaraugus counties were all given failing grades in an assessment of their ability to provide quality legal counsel to the poor accused of crimes in a study by the National Legal Aid and Defender Association.

Schuyler County received an “F” for training public defenders because the county's public defenders “are not provided with nor required to have any training in either criminal defense or family law,” according to the report.

“Neither the county nor the state has specific dedicated funding for continuing legal education of public defense attorneys,” according to the report.


The full report is available at http://www.nysda.org

By Dan Osburn
Gannett News Service
Originally published November 30, 2007

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#699105 --- 11/30/07 09:58 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: newsman38]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
How dare they criticize Schuyler County! This is all just a bunch of lies! Hypocrites! Double-dealers! Witch hunters! Assasins!

It's time to erect roadblocks at the County line. Nobody enters or leaves without permission.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#699172 --- 11/30/07 12:39 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: AbuDhabi]
esmeralda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 89
Loc: fingerlakes
Thats Schuyler county for you...there is a handful of people in Watkins Glen that run the show and it has been this way for the last 20 - 25 years that I have been working in the area...they don't want change...no gravel mine, didn't want WalMart, just a bunch of villagers and politicians who want everything handed to them on a silver platter, preferably with grants and tax payers money...and don't expect them to be accountable for anything!!!
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Today is yesterday's tomorrow!

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#699183 --- 11/30/07 12:58 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: esmeralda]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: esmeralda
Thats Schuyler county for you...there is a handful of people in Watkins Glen that run the show and it has been this way for the last 20 - 25 years


Well, it ain't that way any more! WE are running things now. Tell those bums to shove over.
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"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#699188 --- 11/30/07 01:11 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: AbuDhabi]
esmeralda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 89
Loc: fingerlakes
Good Luck moving them over!!!!!!!! Their Christmas Parade is next week, Friday the 7th at 6:30pm...not bad for a small town.
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Today is yesterday's tomorrow!

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#699503 --- 11/30/07 09:39 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: esmeralda]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: esmeralda
Good Luck moving them over!!!!!!!! Their Christmas Parade is next week, Friday the 7th at 6:30pm...not bad for a small town.


We'll send Al Kida.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#699556 --- 11/30/07 10:28 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: AbuDhabi]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
I've almost got the Ford Pinto ready for him. It's now a multi-fuel vehicle. It's got the original exploding gas tank, plus a whole bunch of propane tanks, in the trunk and on the seats. NYS is not going to give him a driver's license after all, but he won't really need it for such a short mission.


Edited by VM Smith (11/30/07 10:30 PM)
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#699671 --- 12/01/07 08:47 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
Al Kida Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 3102
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
I've almost got the Ford Pinto ready for him. It's now a multi-fuel vehicle. It's got the original exploding gas tank, plus a whole bunch of propane tanks, in the trunk and on the seats. NYS is not going to give him a driver's license after all, but he won't really need it for such a short mission.



They should!!!

I am no longer an illegal alien!!!

I am simply an "undocumented immigrant"!!!

If I broke into store and took things I would be "undocumented customer"!!!
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#699672 --- 12/01/07 08:48 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: AbuDhabi]
Al Kida Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 3102
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: esmeralda
Good Luck moving them over!!!!!!!! Their Christmas Parade is next week, Friday the 7th at 6:30pm...not bad for a small town.


We'll send Al Kida.



I can not participate in such pagan rituals of the great Satin!!!
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#699761 --- 12/01/07 11:54 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: Al Kida]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Without the proper documents, you're illegal. You must learn our country's laws, even if you'll only have an intact body until the Christmas parade. Meanwhile, 40 lashes for not showing proper respect to the US legal code!
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#699771 --- 12/01/07 12:23 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
esmeralda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 89
Loc: fingerlakes
Save the Pinto from destruction!!!!! They are cute...very rare...and should be on the endangered species list!!!!! And we have won numerous dust collectors and all that stuff drag racing them...amazing how fast they can go...and illegal...ill eagle...isn't that a sick bird?
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Today is yesterday's tomorrow!

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#699789 --- 12/01/07 01:30 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: esmeralda]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
They try to save the darn things, but every time they put one in a museum, it blows up! It's as if Stephen King had been on that design team.

"and illegal...ill eagle...isn't that a sick bird?"

Correct; "ill eagle" is a sick bird; it's now our national bird.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#699805 --- 12/01/07 01:58 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
Al Kida Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 3102
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Without the proper documents, you're illegal.



Excuse please!!!

You must not have heard!!!

Originally Posted By: MKB
AK

If you prefer the hyberbolic "alien" and "illegal," that is your choice, but if you enter the legal or legislative arena, undocumented is what they are.

MKB
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#699812 --- 12/01/07 02:07 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: Al Kida]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
I believe that to be mere sophistry; it's illegal to be undocumented; that's the law.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#700546 --- 12/03/07 12:24 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
I believe that to be mere sophistry; it's illegal to be undocumented; that's the law.


The law in Schuyler County is exactly what we say it is, neither more nor less. I say NO ILLEGALS / INDOCUMENTADOS / MOJADOS, nothing. They make too much noise coming and going in their trucks.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#700550 --- 12/03/07 12:35 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: AbuDhabi]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
I'd been thinking of building a wall around it, but then I remembered that some of the fruit pickers bring their own ladders. If we defoliate the place with AO, the illegals would be easier to spot. Or we could offer a combination big game license,with a tag for illegals.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#700660 --- 12/03/07 07:40 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Or we could offer a combination big game license,with a tag for illegals.


Some would call that "cruel and unusual". But if we made the season 365 days per year, it wouldn't be unusual at all.

Now I'm not saying that's a good idea, but it is worth thinking about.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#700912 --- 12/03/07 01:39 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: AbuDhabi]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Maybe my idea was as a little extreme; some might call it retrogradely assholian, and perhaps even uncivilized and barbaric. I was just thinking that it would offer an outlet for some of the more passionate ridge-runners, and might cut down on wife-beating, ax-murdering, crank abuse, etc..

Okay, how about a catch and release bounty program, where they are required to release them at the INS shop, either for cash or for, perhaps, new shag carpet for the trailer? One of those inflatable swimming pools?

The reward possibilities are endless, but whatever, all those low MPG pickups would actually be being used for a patriotic purpose, instead of driving around with an empty bed, or containing the occasional jacked deer.


Edited by VM Smith (12/03/07 01:41 PM)
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#700923 --- 12/03/07 01:57 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
ovidtech Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 2848
Loc: Between.
Okay, how about a catch and release bounty program
I think they have a traing program for this. I beleive it's called the Border Patrol.
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We now have a goverment of the feckless, by the crooked, for the connected.

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#701324 --- 12/03/07 09:47 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: esmeralda]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: esmeralda
Save the Pinto from destruction!!!!! They are cute...very rare...and should be on the endangered species list!!!!! And we have won numerous dust collectors and all that stuff drag racing them...amazing how fast they can go...and illegal...ill eagle...isn't that a sick bird?


Especially if it's brown and a 76... ;\)


Edited by bigbeast (12/03/07 09:47 PM)

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#701341 --- 12/03/07 10:01 PM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: VM Smith]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
The reward possibilities are endless,


...a carton of Luckies...

Quote:
but whatever, all those low MPG pickups would actually be being used for a patriotic purpose, instead of driving around with an empty bed, or containing the occasional jacked deer.


They need those trucks to shift the double-wides around when the river rises.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#1162198 --- 03/21/10 11:37 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: newsman38]
newsman38 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4945
Loc: Fourth Estate
Key New York Suit Calls Public Defender Programs Inadequate

A class-action suit to be argued next week in New York’s highest court has become a test of a national strategy by civil liberties groups to challenge what they say are failed public defender programs in many states.

Next Tuesday, the Court of Appeals is to consider whether the suit can proceed. A half-dozen friend-of-the-court briefs portray the scheduled argument as a critical step in defining the meaning of a landmark decision of the United States Supreme Court in 1963. The decision, Gideon v. Wainwright, declared that the Constitution required states to provide lawyers for indigent defendants.

The New York class-action suit was filed in the name of a Rochester woman, Kimberly Hurell-Harring, and 19 other people who were facing criminal charges in five counties: Onondaga, Ontario, Schuyler, Suffolk and Washington. The question before the Court of Appeals is whether the class action presents an issue that the courts can consider.

The civil liberties case has placed New York officials in the awkward position of defending a $400 million locally financed system that a 2006 commission said did not provide effective representation to “a large portion of those entitled to it.”

Law enforcement officials are divided over the case, with arguments on each side filed by groups of former and current New York prosecutors. Some prosecutors say the case overstates the problems with public defender programs. In some areas, the system is “working well and protecting every right,” said Kathleen B. Hogan, the president of the State District Attorneys Association.

But Corey Stoughton of the Civil Liberties Union, the lead lawyer in the case, said defense programs were chronically starved of money for decades because officials in every branch of government never made the adequate representation of indigents a political priority.

Because of the poor quality of representation, innocent people are convicted and defendants routinely face pressure to plead guilty, Ms. Stoughton said.

“The case-by-case method fails,” she said. “The political method fails. For decades, the State of New York has been on notice that the public defense system is in crisis and fails to meet basic constitutional responsibilities.”


By WILLIAM GLABERSON
Published: March 15, 2010
New York Times

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#1178962 --- 05/07/10 10:42 AM Re: Schuyler Legal System Gets Failing Grade [Re: newsman38]
newsman38 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4945
Loc: Fourth Estate
In 4-3 vote New York State's highest court says indigent defense lawsuit can go forward

New York State's highest court, the Court of Appeals, ruled 4-3 yesterday in Hurrell-Harring v State of New York, that a lawsuit against the state, which is seeking a declaration that the state's system of legal defense for poor people is broken, can go forward. The Court of Appeals' decision overturned a lower court that had voted 3-2 to dismiss the case.

While Judge Lippman acknowledged that the state's arguments had some merit, in the end he believed that the plaintiffs had made a strong case for their lawsuit going forward. Said Lipmann, "While it is defendants' position, and was evidently that of the Appellate Division majority, that the complaint contains only performance-based claims for ineffective assistance, our examination of the pleading leads us to a different conclusion. "

Then Lippman summarized the plaintiffs' complaints about ineffective counsel:

"According to the complaint, ten of the 20 plaintiffs — two from Washington, two from Onondaga, two from Ontario and four from Schuyler County — were altogether without representation at the arraignments held in their underlying criminal proceedings. Eight of these unrepresented plaintiffs were jailed after bail had been set in amounts they could not afford. It is alleged that the experience of these plaintiffs is illustrative of what is a fairly common practice in the aforementioned counties of arraigning defendants without counsel and leaving them, particularly when accused of relatively low level offenses, unrepresented in subsequent proceedings where pleas are taken and other critically important legal transactions take place. One of these plaintiffs remained unrepresented for some five months and it is alleged that the absence of clear and uniform guidelines reasonably related to need has commonly resulted in denials of representation to indigent defendants based on the subjective judgments of individual jurists."

"In addition to the foregoing allegations of outright non-representation, the complaint contains allegations to the effect that although lawyers were eventually nominally appointed for plaintiffs, they were unavailable to their clients — that they conferred with them little, if at all, were often completely unresponsive to their urgent inquiries and requests from jail, sometimes for months on end, waived important rights without consulting them, and ultimately appeared to do little more on their behalf than act as conduits for plea offers, some of which purportedly were highly unfavorable. It is repeatedly alleged that counsel missed court appearances, and that when they did appear they were not prepared to proceed, often because they were entirely new to the case, the matters having previously been handled by other similarly unprepared counse. There are also allegations that the counsel appointed for at least one of the plaintiffs was seriously conflicted and thus unqualified to undertake the representation."

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May 7, 8:04
Daniel Weaver

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