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#767788 --- 03/09/08 07:30 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: lncooper]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anyone claim it's a government plot yet. . . not everyone who chooses not to vaccinate is an extremist or conspirarcy theorist."

You didn't miss it; you just hadn't waited long enough:

"or who may not have considered researching what they put in their child's body at the recommendation of government forces."

Next, they'll have legions of evil doctors practicing mind control.
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#768027 --- 03/10/08 07:06 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: goingcrazyinny]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: goingcrazyinny
Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
I understand that, VM. I also think Goingcrazy needs to realize just because we choose to vaccinate our children, does not mean we did not educate ourselves on the vaccinations.

I'm so sorry SBJ. I didn't realize that something I post on a public forum should be directed to you and only as it applies to you. And here I was under the impression that something posted here could be read by numerous people, some of whom have not yet developed an opinion, or who may not have considered researching what they put in their child's body at the recommendation of government forces.


I never said it was directed at only me, Goingcrazy. I said "we", meaning those who do choose to vaccinate their children. Not just those who read this board or are replying to the posts. You were assuming that every person who gets their child vaccinated is not educated on the subject.


Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
I understand that, VM. I also think Goingcrazy needs to realize just because we choose to vaccinate our children, does not mean we did not educate ourselves on the vaccinations.

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#768101 --- 03/10/08 10:05 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
TRD_Tacoma Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 12952
Loc: Rochester
Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
I would not want to watch my children suffer.


Therefore, a very good reason to ensure your kids are vaccinated against deadly or permenently disabling illnesses.
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#768166 --- 03/10/08 12:38 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
goingcrazyinny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1632
Loc: NY
I am not assuming that people who vaccinate are not educated on the subject. What I am assuming is that there are more people who go along with immunizations because the doctor says so, than those who research and make an informed decision. In my experience that is a pretty safe assumption. If parents feel that vaccinations are in the best interest of their kids, great for them, but it is often the case that parents do not know all the details, or even that they have a choice to immunize or not.
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#768195 --- 03/10/08 01:25 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: TRD_Tacoma
Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
I would not want to watch my children suffer.


Therefore, a very good reason to ensure your kids are vaccinated against deadly or permenently disabling illnesses.


Exactly.

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#768396 --- 03/10/08 06:53 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
But face it, SJ; we're not going to convince them;


I don't need to be convinced to vaccinate, just like you don't need to be convinced to NOT vaccinate. The only thing ANY of us need to do is do what we feel is best for our children, period. We've each done that. May not be the same thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean either of us is wrong. No need to 'convince' one way or the other.

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
they'll continue to put their children and other people at risk.


Who else are we putting at risk? If your child is vaccinated, and you are that confident in the vaccines, then what harm are we doing to anyone else?

Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
I understand that, VM. I also think Goingcrazy needs to realize just because we choose to vaccinate our children, does not mean we did not educate ourselves on the vaccinations.


I know this wasn't directed at me, but I agree that vaccination does not necessarily equate being uneducated, but I think you would agree that most people don't realize that they do have a choice, or the right and responsibility to look into the risks vs benefits of whether or not to vaccinate.

Risks vs benefits aside, do most people you know know that they have a choice in the matter? If they do, then great! But in my personal experience, most of the people I know do not know they have a choice, or reason to look into the risks and benefits of their vaccination decisions.

Are there any typos there you'd like to pick on? I'm sorry if there are. It's hard to type with a wiggly baby on one's lap. . . must be the lack of vaccines making him so unruly! Or maybe it's just my neglectful parenting; since I don't vaccinate, I'm *obviously* a neglectful, bad, ignorant parent, eh? ;\) :P \:\) Now go ahead and say something witty and original about how you think I am!

Seriously people, lighten up! It's just the internet ;\) \:\) Each side understands where the other is coming from. . . can we just agree to disagree and let it go? There really isn't any need to keep bickering over this. . .

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#768503 --- 03/10/08 08:27 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: lncooper]
TRD_Tacoma Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 12952
Loc: Rochester
Who else are you putting to risk?

One answer I can come up with is your future grandchildren. By failing to innoculate your kids against measles, they could very possibly contract it as adults especially if they visit other countries. I know you will say it is a big "if", but in the event they get pregnant and have the measles, the birth defects can be pretty devestating.
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#768619 --- 03/10/08 10:04 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: TRD_Tacoma
Who else are you putting to risk?

One answer I can come up with is your future grandchildren. By failing to innoculate your kids against measles, they could very possibly contract it as adults especially if they visit other countries. I know you will say it is a big "if", but in the event they get pregnant and have the measles, the birth defects can be pretty devestating.


It's not like my kids aren't going to know they haven't been vaccinated. I'll raise them the way I see best, just as any other parent, but when they are adults they can make their own decisions for themselves. If *they* feel that it is too big of a risk to not be vaccinated and it fits in with their set of beliefs, then they can choose to get the vaccines any time in their adult life.

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#768913 --- 03/11/08 11:15 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: lncooper]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
They had two Mother's on the Today show. One was a mother who had three children, she had vaccinated the first two and they were healthy. She chose not to vaccinate the last one, that child went to a birthday party and was exposed to meningitis, luckily her doctor was very astute and they caught it early enough she will not have any lasting problems. The mother now advocates for vaccinations.

The other mother has twin boys, they rec'd their 15 month vaccinations.Shortly there after, they were diagnosed with autism. She now advocates for not vaccinating.

The one person on the panel that made any sense was a pediatrician, who cautioned the loose assosciation (not scientifically proven) of vaccinations to Autism should not be preached as fact. He did advocate for more research in to making vaccinations for all children.

Another peditrician who wants to totally associate vaccinations with autism, didn't really help himself. He said it is more a genetic factor that is the root cause of the autism because of a gene that reacts differently to some additives in vaccinations.

I think the first pediatrician is right on the mark: let's put more money into research. Let's becareful of what we pass off as facts.

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#769276 --- 03/11/08 09:40 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Thena Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/01
Posts: 2445
Loc: The places of my mind
i have stayed away from this for a long time... and while i did attempt to post a very long reply, i lost power and therefore lost my post.

I will simply say this:
It is no more right for those who choose to vaccinate their children to bash parents who choose not to, as it is for those who choose not to vaccinate to bash parents who do.

I have made the INFORMED choice to DELAY vaccinations. My oldest was fully vaccinated according to the schedule that was out at her time of birth (late 1998)... and i have seen a change, a push, to do more shots sooner... and i don't think it's good for my children's body to be bombarded with so much so quickly.

I have had a child who has had a bad reaction to a vaccination (my middle child, who is considered a preschooler with special needs, and receives services through the school district for such at our local Head Start). Is it just her, or did something happen with her reaction - i don't know... but i do know i have the chance to reduce the risk of my youngest by delaying even for a short time to give his body time to grow and mature and perhaps better handle it.

So for now i have decided to delay for a time the time frame of shots my middle child reacted to until he is 2... the shot specifically i am thinking of (and gets a lot of press) is the MMR. Originally, it was a shot started at age 2 (was when my oldest was that age)... it's now given at 12 months. Will he get all his shots, yes... he has no received all his "scheduled" shots that are due up to age 12 months. So for the MMR at least - he is getting it for when it was intinally intended to be given at.

And personally - i think too many people put too much stock in vaccinations. They have been known to fail, not take (i personally have experienced, i have received a full course of the Hep B vaccination (a full course is 3 shots over a series of 6 months), had the blood work to see if i was innoculaed and i am not, and had a "booster" to try and see if it would take (so a total of 7 Hep B shots) and i am still not immunized.

Anyways... again i repeat - it's no more right for one side of the fence to bash the other...we are ALL only try to do what we believe is best for your children and families with the information we are given


Edited by Thena (03/11/08 09:54 PM)

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#769340 --- 03/12/08 02:56 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
sparky's back Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 9386
Loc: At Home..in the kitchen!!
Good post Thena
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#769346 --- 03/12/08 03:30 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
" it's no more right for one side of the fence to bash the other."

You're right, it's wrong to flat out bash, but I don't think it's wrong to hold the opinion that vaccinating makes more sense, and most often offers protection, with little risk, and to feel sorry for the children who aren't vaccinated.


Edited by VM Smith (03/12/08 03:30 AM)
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#769470 --- 03/12/08 09:02 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
TRD_Tacoma Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 12952
Loc: Rochester
Thena, it doesn't sound like you are anti-vaccination. I understand your position and where you are coming from. I somehow have a feeling that the reason the recommended age has decreased is because more kids are in daycare at a much younger age then when people my age were. When I was a kid, we didn't go to daycare and really didn't have exposure to many other kids until we started school. By having the vaccines at an earlier age, the doctors are probably hoping to prevent accidental infection due to earlier socialization.
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It's hard for a gay man to feel bad about himself when his urologist asks him out on a date!

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#769512 --- 03/12/08 09:45 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
I think Thena's post shows much education on that matter, not taking things lightly or jumping on the bandwagon to pass rumors on.

That is what I worry the nost, taking something that is not proven to be fact and helping to spread it like wildfire.

Education is key. But, as was pointed about parents not realizing they DO have a choice and going to get vaccinations, it lends to the other way as well.

How many people will hear soemthing "bad" about vaccinations and just decide "nope, not going to do it!" without truly educating themselves at all on the benefits vs the risks? All because people want to say, without scientific proof, vaccinations are harmful.

I commend Thena for taking the steps she has taken.

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#769573 --- 03/12/08 11:32 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Thena Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/01
Posts: 2445
Loc: The places of my mind
Thank you for seeing that SBJ \:\) And i agree with you saying before that more research needs to be done into the making of new vaccinations (for example - at this point i wouldn't give my daughters the HPV vaccinations. Not cause i think it will make them immoral - but i don't believe there is enough research on the safety of this vaccination yet), as well as in the changing of what age a child gets certain vaccinations. While, as TRD pointed out that it maybe to get them in before day care, etc, doesn't mean that it is safe to do so. Research (independent of those who make these vaccinations, IMHO) is badly needed.

Now if only the information that parents have now wasn't always skewed one way or the other and was always truly objective (and i don't mean this just for vaccinations, but other issues, parenting or not, as well) so that everyone can make a true informed choice, true informed consent. Most of the info on vaccinations I've found have been given out by those that make vaccinations (think the little sheet the Dr gives you at the visit, and that is if they given them to you with time to read BEFORE the shot is given), and it's only been through what I've seen and experienced with my own children and taking everything else with a grain of salt that I've gotten to where I am now.

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