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#766423 --- 03/07/08 10:45 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Red High Heels]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
I have a small scar on my left arm. My children do not. It is from a smallpox vaccination. I would much rather have that small scar than had to have faced that dreadful disease. Fortunatley, for now, my kids and I did not have to worry about them getting that disease.

In the age of possible bio-chemical warfare, how much longer before they may need to bring that vaccine back?

I am glad my children and my grandchildren are protected from the diseases covered by the vaccines. NONE of my children have questioned the vaccinations and told me they regretted my following through with them.

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#766430 --- 03/07/08 10:58 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
TRD_Tacoma Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 12952
Loc: Rochester
I think the peace of mind a vaccine brings is all the reason a parent would need to ensure their children get vaccinated.
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#766431 --- 03/07/08 11:03 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
sparky's back Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 9386
Loc: At Home..in the kitchen!!
My kids have had all the vaccines offered to then from their doctors. My last child is Autistic,and never once did it enter my mind that it was from his shots...Happy to say he has out grown most of his Autisum.
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#766432 --- 03/07/08 11:03 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam

Smallpox and polio come to mind. Eradicated because of the advent of vaccines.


All diseases have their own natural rise and fall! It is NOT solely BECAUSE of vaccines.

Improved standards of living and general health are the REAL cause for when a disease is eradicated. It is also the best form of prevention of any disease.

Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
The suffering those infants, children and families went through in those days because there were no vaccines at the time, I could not imagine, nor want to.


No one is saying that those families didn't suffer from these conditions, and I agree that I can't even imagine how awful it must have been for them. It certainly wasn't because there were no vaccines though- it was because living conditions weren't as good as they are today, and not as much was known about general good sanitation, how germs and diseases are spread, not as easy access to good nutirition, etc.

Hand washing wasn't seen as important! A doctor would go from performing an autopsy to catching a baby to examining a child with a fever without once washing his hands. No wonder those diseases ran rampant at the time!



I am willing to bet that it is going to be practically impossible to pin many of these conditions such as autism, ADHD, etc to any one thing because THERE IS SO MUCH THAT MESSES WITH OUR BODIES and our cellular make-up, starting when we are forming.

Whatever toxins our mothers were exposed to before conceiving, or before knowing they'd conceived.

Tests and drugs and toxins our mothers were exposed to while gestating. Think: ultrasounds, prescriptions, etc. All with risks.

Drugs and interventions in birth. Think ultrasounds, artificial pitocin, antibiotics, narcotics, opioids, need I go on? Not even to mention the ramifications of instrumental birth, or the ramifications of when a baby is born by cesarean, and the way THAT affects an infants' body functions and systems (something to think about when 1 in 3 babies is born by cesarean today). All with risks.

Antibiotic eye drops and an injection of vitamin K at birth. With risks.

The breastfeeding vs. formula feeding debate, that I won't even get into here \:\)

Additives in vaccines. Whether you are pro- or anti- vaccines, I don't know of ANYONE who thinks it's a GOOD thing to inject a child with thimerosol, formeldahyde, aluminum, etc. All with risks.

Chemical exposure through foods. All with risks.

Flouridated water. With risks.

All homes have some forms of mold, mildew and bacteria; countless people still live in housing with asbestos and lead present. With risks.

SO much affects the individual health, immune system, and behaviors of each person, that it would be impossible to blame one thing for a particular problem; which also means it would be impossible to give credit to just one thing like vaccines for eradicating certain diseases.


I said it before, and I'll say it again:

Originally Posted By: lncooper

There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer for vaccination. We could debate it all we want but I can guarantee we'd all never agree. Maybe what we could all agree on though is that it's the parents' right and responsibility to make an educated, informed decision on what they feel is in the best interests of their children. ;\)

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#766434 --- 03/07/08 11:06 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: TRD_Tacoma
I think the peace of mind a vaccine brings is all the reason a parent would need to ensure their children get vaccinated.


They're not a guarantee, and they're not risk-free. It's not a choice between guaranteed health and sure death.

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#766436 --- 03/07/08 11:10 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: AbuDhabi]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: Thena
i think pumping infant fulls of vaxes before giving their bodies a chance to start building their own immunization is assicine.


Assicine? There goes your credibility, with one swift keystroke. Good thing, too, because you medical Luddites are all wrong.

VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN, PEOPLE!! IT'S NOT A GOVERNMENT PLOT.


I think it's awfully petty to say what someone says isn't credible based on a typo ;\)

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anyone claim it's a government plot yet. . . not everyone who chooses not to vaccinate is an extremist or conspirarcy theorist.

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#766437 --- 03/07/08 11:12 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: Strawberry Jam
I have a small scar on my left arm. My children do not. It is from a smallpox vaccination. I would much rather have that small scar than had to have faced that dreadful disease.


It's not a choice of A) vaccine and maybe a small scar from the shot but guaranteed health or B) no vaccine and definite illness. There is an option C) no vaccine and still have a high likelihood of not getting the illness, especially when you take good care of your general health.

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#766438 --- 03/07/08 11:18 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Double post, sorry. Site was messing up.


Edited by lncooper (03/07/08 11:25 AM)

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#766444 --- 03/07/08 11:38 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: VM Smith]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: Yetta Nother
To not vaccinate is just playing with your childs life. Vaccinating is far less dangerous than actually getting the disease itself.


For you, that's a no-brainer, but some don't understand how to evaluate relative risk, so they panic and don't vaccinate.

http://www.metrokc.gov/health/immunization/compare.htm


I don't pressume that people who do vaccinate are ignorant, and I'd hope that people who do vaccinate don't think of me as ignorant because I choose not to.

It's not just about relative risks. . .

I wasn't going to get into this, but on top of my concerns about risks vs. benefits, there are many of us who have serious moral, religious, and philosophical reservations and objections to vaccines. For us, we are Christian, and part of our beliefs are that God made us in His imagine, just the way that He intended us to be. He gave us what He wanted us to have; if He wanted us to have these automatic abilities to be immune to disease, then we'd be born with such. We also believe the body He gave us is sacred, and doubting His abilities by injecting artifical chemicals, animal and human matter, and other cross-contaminants is going against His will.

That's not to say that everyone who believes in God or is Christian feels the same way or should feel that way, but it was a HUGE factor in our decision to not vaccinate. . . among other things, which certainly DID include researching the relative risks and benefits of both vaccinating or not. It certainly was not an easy decision, or one based on ignorance or panic.

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#766462 --- 03/07/08 12:20 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: lncooper]
stargatersg1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 993
Loc: Geneva, NY
For us, we are Christian, and part of our beliefs are that God made us in His imagine, just the way that He intended us to be. He gave us what He wanted us to have; if He wanted us to have these automatic abilities to be immune to disease, then we'd be born with such.

We are born with it ..it's called your immune system, but with all of the crap in the world today, our immune systems need help sometimes. Especially those who are unfortunate enough to have weak immunbe systems. I am a Christian also , and I beleive in God, but God also saw the importance of Doctors to help us. He has answered many prayers through the working of others, Doctors, Nurses etc.
In a similar context, a child born with a defective heart. This may be the way God intended, But should we just not do anything and let the child die or should we use the toos avaliable to us to cure the child?
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#766465 --- 03/07/08 12:21 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: lncooper]
Coach64 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 3120
Loc: Houghton, MI
If he gave you everything, he also gave you these immunizations.
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"Every man dies, not every man truly lives"

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#766474 --- 03/07/08 12:40 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Coach64]
TRD_Tacoma Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 12952
Loc: Rochester
I guess they must have been born with cloths, a house, an education, a career, eye glasses, etc etc etc.
_________________________
It's hard for a gay man to feel bad about himself when his urologist asks him out on a date!

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#766476 --- 03/07/08 12:43 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
Coach64 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 3120
Loc: Houghton, MI
TMTH
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"Every man dies, not every man truly lives"

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#766478 --- 03/07/08 12:44 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: stargatersg1]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: stargatersg1

We are born with it ..it's called your immune system, but with all of the crap in the world today, our immune systems need help sometimes. Especially those who are unfortunate enough to have weak immunbe systems. I am a Christian also , and I beleive in God, but God also saw the importance of Doctors to help us. He has answered many prayers through the working of others, Doctors, Nurses etc.
In a similar context, a child born with a defective heart. This may be the way God intended, But should we just not do anything and let the child die or should we use the toos avaliable to us to cure the child?


Yes, I completely understand and agree that sometimes, God works through humans, sometimes in the form of doctors or knowledge and access to modern medicine or alternative medicines. I agree that God did see the importance of various care providers to help us- when we can't help ourselves.

We don't totally reject modern medicine, but we feel there is a definite difference between using what He has given us access to to fix a medical problem, and overusing it in the name of prevention and 'just in case.' Kind of like having an entire pie in front of you. . . you can eat the entire thing because it looks and tastes good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy, or that you should.

FWIW, my oldest daughter was born with a birth defect that would have been fatal without the assistance of modern medicine, and my husband is insulin-dependant diabetic. I am thankful for the work that God does through humans *when we need it.* In our beliefs, 'just in case' is not a matter of necessity, especially when we are given other tools to maximize prevention non-interventatively.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong- vaccine or religion-wise- not at all! I see what you're saying on the religion/modern medicine point and I respect your beliefs and choices, but I'm just trying to clarify a little bit of our beliefs and how we came to our decision not to vaccinate. \:\)

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#766486 --- 03/07/08 12:51 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: lncooper]
Red High Heels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 453
Loc: Geneva, NY
We're also very Christian and while everybody has their own beliefs or opinions I'm not here to bash that. God Bless You and your family - I guess the way I look at it is Jesus was able to heal people. While he did this in miraculous ways I believe he meant for us to be able to heal each other also and this is the way we can accomplish this. If that makes sense (???) Oh well, to me it does \:o

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#766489 --- 03/07/08 12:54 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: TRD_Tacoma]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Look. This is why I didn't even want to get into how our beliefs influenced our decision. I don't appreciate the remarks implying that my religious beliefs are wrong. I'm not saying they're right for everyone; you (generally speaking) believe whatever you believe in and do it with all your heart, and if you do that, then that's what's right for you. I'd really rather not continue with a great religious debate just to have others tell me what I should or should not believe in, just as I'd really appreciate others not telling me what to do to my children concerning whether or not to vaccinate.

I was just trying to clarify that just because someone chooses not to vaccinate doesn't mean they are ignorant or selective in the information they take in.

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#766492 --- 03/07/08 12:55 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Red High Heels]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: Red High Heels
If that makes sense (???) Oh well, to me it does \:o


If it makes sense to you and is what's right for your family, then yes, it does make sense and that's all that matters \:\)

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#766494 --- 03/07/08 01:00 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Red High Heels]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: Red High Heels
Jesus was able to heal people. While he did this in miraculous ways I believe he meant for us to be able to heal each other also and this is the way we can accomplish this.


*Healing* is different than *prevention* in my book \:\)

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#766526 --- 03/07/08 01:51 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: lncooper]
stargatersg1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 993
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: lncooper
Originally Posted By: Red High Heels
Jesus was able to heal people. While he did this in miraculous ways I believe he meant for us to be able to heal each other also and this is the way we can accomplish this.


*Healing* is different than *prevention* in my book \:\)


That's true. Prevention doesn't always mean vaccinations etc either. I think a lot of the present day "ailments" are because of our lazy life styles. If we took more pride in the bodies God gave us, we would be far better off.Diabetes and Obesity are two life style diseases that could be prevented by making smart choices.
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Some of us go to the grave with our music still in us!!!

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#766528 --- 03/07/08 01:57 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: lncooper]
stargatersg1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 993
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: lncooper
Originally Posted By: Red High Heels
If that makes sense (???) Oh well, to me it does \:o


If it makes sense to you and is what's right for your family, then yes, it does make sense and that's all that matters \:\)


That's right. We make decisions based on our experience and knowledge and beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. It would be a pretty weird world if we all thought alike lol.
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Some of us go to the grave with our music still in us!!!

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