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#690371 --- 11/16/07 07:03 PM To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ??
almostrelieved Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Waterloo, NY
Ok here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071116/ap_on_re_us/shots_getting_tough


What do you think about this article? Was just wondering what people's opinion about getting their child(ren) vaccianted for school.

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#690685 --- 11/17/07 11:27 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: almostrelieved]
goingcrazyinny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1632
Loc: NY
NOT!!!!!!
http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/newyork.htm
Vaccinations (PLEASE do not call them immunizations, they do NOT guarantee immunity) actually weaken your immune system. Not only do they contain DNA particles and any number of other cross-contaminants, they contain preservatives like ANTIFREEZE, ALUMINUM, and FORMELDAHYDE (sp?). And sure, they say they don't make vaccines with MERCURY anymore, but the ones that WERE made with mercury are still out there and being used up- just not on my children ;\)

Even if they could make a vaccine without any of these preservatives or additives, I personally still would not inject my children with them. Our immune systems become stronger as they develop their own naturally formed antibodies.


Many people credit modern medicine with improved maternity rates and disease control. This is really not modern medicine's doing! It's because of the improvements in basic sanitation, standards of living, and general health. If you look back at ANY disease throughout history, they all have their own natural pattern of rising and falling, and the diseases that are typically vaccinated against today were already on the natural decline when the vaccines came into use. Yes, vaccines may have sped up the decline process, but at what cost? Weakened immune systems, allergic reactions, autism, learning disabilities?

And WTF is with the chicken pox vaccine people?!?! Seriously. It has one of the lowest effectivity rates, and what little bit of 'immunity' it may provide is only a TEMPORARY immunity. A chicken pox vaccine means that to continue to receive 'protection' your child will need booster shots for his or her whole life. Now let's be honest here: as an adult, when's the last time you've gone in for a booster shot? Children vaccinated with the chicken pox vaccine are not going to be likely to keep up on it as adults, and because the 'protection' the shot gives is only temporary, they will be left with little defenses against it as an adult, and we all know that chicken pox is MUCH more serious to catch as an adult, as opposed to catching it when you're a child, which is typically pretty mild. Chicken pox was a 'right of passage,' if you will, for my generation and generations before mine; why we are vaccinating against this normal, common, rarely deadly childhood disease?

Also, most people forget that you don't need to be actively sick to have acheived natural immunity.

So, back to where I started: you do NOT need to have your child vaccinated for school. We ALL have federally guaranteed rights that allow us to make our own medical decisions and practice our own beliefs. Federally guaranteed rights trump any state laws (which all have exemptions anyways). Many states won't 'allow' for a philosophical exemption, but it is worth noting that there have been numerous cases where parents' personal beliefs have been considered acceptable for religious exemption, and you don't need to be a member of an organized religion for a religious exemption, either.

It just amazes- and scares- me how many people don't realize this. You DO have a choice, and there's a REASON you have choice: because there are very real risks that come along with choosing to vaccinate. Everyone has to make the choices that are right for their own family. I don't look down on anyone who chooses to vaccinate because they feel it's best for their family, and I don't expect to be looked down on by anyone because we choose not to vaccinate because that's what we feel is safest for our family. But I do feel badly for anyone who 'chooses' to vaccinate without all of the information, and for anyone who doesn't realize that they even have a choice or reason to need to choose.
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#691418 --- 11/18/07 06:53 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: goingcrazyinny]
~Ellie~ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/28/00
Posts: 8233
Loc: FL1 Auxiliary Member 506
Get the facts not opinions before you decide:

Before Polio vaccination was available, 13,000 to 20,000 cases were reported each year in the U.S. None were reported in 2000.

Measles is one of the most infectious diseases in the world, and is frequently imported into the U.S. If vaccinations were stopped, 2.7 million measles deaths worldwide could be expected.

Before the vaccination, Hib meningitis killed 600 children a year, and infected 20,000. If we were to stop immunizing, we would likely return to the pre-vaccine numbers of infections and deaths.

Whooping Cough-Before immunization, up to 260,000 cases were reported in the U.S. each year, with up to 9,000 deaths. Pertussis still occurs worldwide.

Rubella-Before the 1965 vaccination was used routinely in the U.S., rubella resulted in an estimated 20,000 infants born with CRS, 2,100 neonatal deaths and 11,250 miscarriages in a two-year time span.

Chickenpox was responsible for an estimated 4 million cases, 11,000 hospitalizations and 100 deaths each year before the licensing of the chickenpox vaccine in 1995.

Hepatitis B-Approximately 25% of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis are expected to die of a related disease as adults. In addition to the 12,000 infants infected by their mother during birth, approximately 33,000 children under the age of 10 were infected before the vaccination.

Diphtheria-The death rate before vaccinations was up to 20% in the young and elderly. Although Diphtheria is primarily in other countries, international travels make it easy to contract. In 1921, a diphtheria outbreak caused 12,230 deaths in the U.S. Only one case was reported in 1998, due to vaccinations.

Tetanus-Approximately 30% of reported cases of tetanus end in death. Tetanus kills 300,000 newborns and 30,000 birth mothers worldwide, from lack of immunization. Tetanus is not contagious, and can only be prevented by immunization. People of all ages can be infected.

Mumps-Before the vaccination was developed in 1967, an estimated 212,000 cases occurred in the U.S. annually. In 1986 and 1987, there was a resurgence of mumps with 12,848 cases reported. Since 1989, the incidence has declined, with a total of 323 cases last year.

WHO summaries
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#691503 --- 11/18/07 10:13 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: ~Ellie~]
Della Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 16305
Loc: Seneca Falls
Thanks Ellie... it's easy to not vaccinate when you haven't lived in an era that didn't have the option.
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#691550 --- 11/18/07 11:46 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: Della]
Red High Heels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 453
Loc: Geneva, NY
I immunized all of my children, my three daughters got the chicken pox - my boys didn't have them before school so they had to have the immunization. While I'm not all for the chicken pox immunization I didn't argue with the doctor or school about having it done. The more protected my kids are - the better I feel. I would not want to be the one to live with the guilt if my child developed whooping cough and it turned fatal.

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#691557 --- 11/18/07 12:11 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: Red High Heels]
Della Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 16305
Loc: Seneca Falls
My only problem w/the chickenpox vaccine is how long does it last? You hear how bad chicken pox is for adults. What if all these kids don't get the boosters and get it at 30?
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#691676 --- 11/18/07 04:51 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Della]
Thena Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/01
Posts: 2445
Loc: The places of my mind
i think pumping infant fulls of vaxes before giving their bodies a chance to start building their own immunization is assicine.

i have 3 children, and it's only been in the last few moths has my position on vaxes has changed. While, i think they can/are important... i think waiting till a child is older, but maybe not yet in school, to give shots, and then 1 at a time and not 4 or 5 together.

And for those who don't want them all together - that is their right. a child can always go and gets vaxes as an adult as they see fit... but you can't undo getting vaxes.

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#691692 --- 11/18/07 05:44 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
MAKOLLIG JEZVAHTED Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/17/00
Posts: 4467
Loc: Five Points C25, upon return c...
Parents that do not get immunizations for their Children in my mind are committing passive child abuse. The data and facts are not disputable as to the risk/safety of getting immunized versus "waiting" to see what happens or "waiting" for them to get older.

If a parent ever took a Tylenol for a headache to me it is hypocritical not to get their children immunized.

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#691716 --- 11/18/07 06:43 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ?? [Re: Della]
Sunshine2007 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 81
Loc: My little slice of heaven
Originally Posted By: Della
My only problem w/the chickenpox vaccine is how long does it last? You hear how bad chicken pox is for adults. What if all these kids don't get the boosters and get it at 30?


Indeed! Adult Chicken POX is horrible. I thought I had it as a baby, but come to find out it was the measles. I caught it from my son when he started kindergarten. It was so painful! Took me out of work for 3 weeks.

It had just been released when they were asking if I wanted to give it to my kids. I decided not to for the very reason you state Della...there was no data available on the long term. I would much rather my kids went through what they did which was nothing compared to what I had as an adult.

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#691739 --- 11/18/07 07:55 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
almostrelieved Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Waterloo, NY
Not sure if you know Thena but some vaccines are combined now so the child doesn't have to get poked 4 or 5 times. I just heard there is a new vaccine out for the stomach bug, given when the child is only a few months old. Good grief! My daughter currently has a stomach bug-fever and vomiting. She's been on the couch all day except for getting up and going to the bathroom. Poor kid. I hate it when she's sick but it's kinda good for her to have her body build up antibodies to help ward off the next time it comes around, or at least so it won't be as bad. I was vaccinated as well as my 2 younger brothers. We all survived. Of course that was years and years ago. I would hate to have whooping cough or even the measles now. I know of 2 people who had the chicken pox when they were older-one was in high school (we had to take a Regents Chem test and she was just gettin gover it) and the other is my hubby who had it in college. No thanks. He said it was horrible! I know shingles is even worse and very painful.


Edited by almostrelieved (11/18/07 07:56 PM)

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#691910 --- 11/18/07 09:55 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: almostrelieved]
goingcrazyinny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1632
Loc: NY
I STRONGLY disagree with vaxes for children for something like the flu, or chicken pox, and especially a bug. Of course if a child gets sick they will be miserable, and it's an inconvenience for the parent, but I would rather my children build up a natural immunity instead of getting injected with some fake crap that won't last, has side effects, and isn't guaranteed anyway (not to mention the toxins and preservatives that would put into my children's systems!!).
I have no issue with parents having their kids immunized- I just want them to realize they do have a choice and need to do their research first.
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#691917 --- 11/18/07 11:26 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: almostrelieved]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
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Sickness and death from vaccine-preventable diseases has fallen to an all-time low in the U.S., according to researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Last year, there were no reported deaths in the U.S. from measles, diphtheria, mumps, polio, or rubella (German measles), according to research published this week in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). The number of deaths for tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), and Hib disease (a major cause of meningitis) had all fallen more than 99% since vaccines were introduced against them. Vaccines have cut the number of deaths from hepatitis A, acute hepatitis B, and chickenpox by more than 80% each. And deaths from invasive pneumococcal disease (a cause of pneumonia, meningitis, and blood infection) have been cut by a quarter. Smallpox has been eradicated worldwide.
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Why, then, is there so much concern about vaccines? In the U.S., few health issues get people as riled up as the persistent, though almost completely discredited, argument that routine childhood immunizations cause autism. In the U.K., doctors and policy makers are debating whether to encourage universal vaccination against chickenpox, a step that U.S. medical authorities took in 1995. Even that debate — focused not on the vaccine's safety, but on whether it's really necessary — has become surprisingly bitter.

Vaccines, like any drug, do carry some risk — but in healthy children, that risk is minute. A very small number of immunized children will have an allergic reaction to the vaccine, sometimes so severe it kills them. The trouble is that people are very bad at translating the practical danger from such miniscule statistical risks. Most people, given the choice to vaccinate their kids and run a tiny risk of an allergic reaction, or not to vaccinate their kids and — as in the case of polio — face a risk of contracting a crippling, sometimes lethal disease, can't figure out what to do: So, they'll ask a doctor. And doctors know that most people can't assess the risks clearly, which is why they get frustrated when a parent refuses to vaccinate a child.

The JAMA authors note their study is not a cost-benefit analysis of any of the vaccines that it analyzes. But the figures do put immunization debates in perspective. "Vaccines," the authors write, "are one of the greatest achievements of biomedical science and public health." The authors cite a 2001 paper, estimating that every year, seven of the 12 routine childhood vaccinations given in the U.S. prevent 14 million disease cases and 33,000 deaths. The JAMA authors believe their own death-rate reduction figures may in fact underestimate the true benefits of vaccination. The numbers don't account for chronic disease averted because of a prevented infection: Hepatitis B, for example, is a major risk factor for liver cancer.

The potential gains of vaccination aren't limited to infants and children, say the CDC researchers. Adults can ask their doctors whether they're good candidates for immunization against shingles, meningococcal illnesses, the human papillomavirus (a cause of cervical cancer in women), and, of course, the flu, among other diseases. "By improving vaccine coverage to adolescents and adults, there could be much greater public health benefit," says co-author Sandra Roush.
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#692157 --- 11/19/07 12:36 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: VM Smith]
Yetta Nother Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 17682
Loc: Sunny and warm
To not vaccinate is just playing with your childs life. Vaccinating is far less dangerous than actually getting the disease itself.
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#692373 --- 11/19/07 06:02 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Yetta Nother]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: Yetta Nother
To not vaccinate is just playing with your childs life. Vaccinating is far less dangerous than actually getting the disease itself.


For you, that's a no-brainer, but some don't understand how to evaluate relative risk, so they panic and don't vaccinate.

http://www.metrokc.gov/health/immunization/compare.htm
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#692407 --- 11/19/07 06:39 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: VM Smith]
goingcrazyinny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1632
Loc: NY
Unfortunatley it is very rare to find info that is not biased in one direction or another (all depends on who puts it out). Any kind of statistics can be stretched to suit the purpose of either side of the debate no matter which way you look at it. This is a topic that ultimatly comes down to personal choice and/or religious beliefs. Not anything that you will find on the internet. Just educate yourself as much as possible from a variety of sources that look at both sides of the issue and make a decision you can lve with.
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#692516 --- 11/19/07 08:28 PM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: goingcrazyinny]
Thena Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/01
Posts: 2445
Loc: The places of my mind
Originally Posted By: goingcrazyinny
Unfortunatley it is very rare to find info that is not biased in one direction or another (all depends on who puts it out). Any kind of statistics can be stretched to suit the purpose of either side of the debate no matter which way you look at it. This is a topic that ultimatly comes down to personal choice and/or religious beliefs. Not anything that you will find on the internet. Just educate yourself as much as possible from a variety of sources that look at both sides of the issue and make a decision you can lve with.


exactually

i know my post come off very anti-vax (i'm not).. i just believe bombarding little new bodies before they have a chance to grow and develop is insane.

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#765773 --- 03/06/08 11:00 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
lncooper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 68
We don't vaccinate. It is a combination of moral, philosophical, religious, and lifestyle reasoning that we don't. There are certain risks and benefits to both vaccinating and not vaccinating.

My oldest was vaccinated, but not my younger two, and I can tell you that an even bigger problem than the additives and contanimanates in the vaccines is the lack of true informed consent and refusal in the vaccine process (or most medical treatments, for that matter). With my oldest, I can tell you without a doubt that I was never told the truth about vaccines not being mandatory, and I was never explained the risks involved.

What many people forget to take into consideration is that most of what is vaccinated for today is not as deadly as it was when the vaccine for it was introduced. This is not because of the vaccines; this is due to better standards of living. Remember, things like the flu and diarrhea used to kill people. These things can still kill people in higher risk health situations, like the immuno-depressed, but for most of the general public these things are common (although still unpleasant), but not life-threatening in and of itself.

Most illnesses that vaccines are developed for are already on the decline by the time they become implemented routinely. ALL diseases have a natural rise and decline. The elimination of a disease may be sped up due to vaccines, but it certainly is not the CAUSE for its elimination.

I personally do not agree with routine vaccines (or eye drops and vitamin K injections at birth) for a variety of reasons that I will not get in to, BUT I am thankful that they exist for those families who choose to have them for their children. Just because *I* don't agree with them doesn't mean I don't think anyone should have access to them if they make an informed choice to do so.

There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer for vaccination. We could debate it all we want but I can guarantee we'd all never agree. Maybe what we could all agree on though is that it's the parents' right and responsibility to make an educated, informed decision on what they feel is in the best interests of their children. ;\)

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#765798 --- 03/06/08 11:55 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Thena]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: Thena
i think pumping infant fulls of vaxes before giving their bodies a chance to start building their own immunization is assicine.


Assicine? There goes your credibility, with one swift keystroke. Good thing, too, because you medical Luddites are all wrong.

VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN, PEOPLE!! IT'S NOT A GOVERNMENT PLOT.
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#766269 --- 03/07/08 06:48 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: AbuDhabi]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: AbuDhabi
Originally Posted By: Thena
i think pumping infant fulls of vaxes before giving their bodies a chance to start building their own immunization is assicine.


Assicine? There goes your credibility, with one swift keystroke. Good thing, too, because you medical Luddites are all wrong.

VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN, PEOPLE!! IT'S NOT A GOVERNMENT PLOT.


AMEN!

Smallpox and polio come to mind. Eradicated because of the advent of vaccines. The suffering those infants, children and families went through in those days because there were no vaccines at the time, I could not imagine, nor want to.

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#766402 --- 03/07/08 10:22 AM Re: To vaccinate or not to vaccinate-that is the ? [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Red High Heels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 453
Loc: Geneva, NY
And to sit there and argue the whole MMR being linked to Autism. I was so glad to read the article where the little girl was diagnosed with autism and they are still pro-vaccine. I'd much rather have a child with autism than lose a child to such a devastating illness and watch them suffer. Now, the next smarta@# don't ask a question about me having a child w/ autism - I do and he was born that way!!!

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