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#601628 --- 07/10/07 09:19 AM $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Daily Policy Digest

State & Local Issues / State & Local taxes

Tuesday, January 13, 2004

Once a gambling enriched-tribe acquires land, the new "reservation" becomes a sovereign nation, exempt from all local and state laws, zoning ordinances, labor rules, environmental reviews, and American rules of due process and fair play in law enforcement, says Jan Golab. In addition, the "reservation" and business built on it, including a casino, has complete tax exemption. This policy erodes the local tax base and reduces government revenues.

Because of the numbers of casinos established in California, this poses a serious problem for the state's struggling economy:


In 2002, revenues from newly built casinos in California soared to $5 billion per year -- but the casinos paid virtually nothing to the state.
The Supreme Court has ruled that Indians must collect sales tax from customers who are not Indians, but nearly all tribal businesses ignore this rule, resulting in the undercutting of competing non-Indian businesses.
Although they pay little in taxes, gaming tribes seek to influence the political process -- spending over $120 million to push their candidates and ballot initiatives in recent years. That is more than George W. Bush spent nationwide to be elected President.

The impact is just as grave in other states, says Golab:


In Oklahoma, $580 million in annual sales and property taxes are lost to Indians in the state.




New York lost $895 million in 2002 by failing to collect taxes on cigarettes sold by Indians.




Because of the erosion of state and local tax base, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken on the Indian gaming industry in California and is asking that they contribute 25 percent of their earnings to the state, or approximately $1 billion.

Source: Jan Golab, "Arnold Schwarzenegger Girds For Indian War," American Enterprise, January/February 2004, American Enterprise Institute.

For more on American Enterprise
http://www.taemag.com

For more on State & Local taxes
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/sta/

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#602784 --- 07/12/07 07:46 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
VOTE NO on the deal!!!!
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#602857 --- 07/12/07 10:51 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
LaughinWillow Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/12/01
Posts: 1950
Loc: State of Emergency
Don't you people ever think it's, well, IRONIC to complain about what you're "owed" by native peoples? I mean, really - isn't it the height of arrogance to demand that people who were driven to the edge of absolute extinction, stripped of their lands and culture, and cheated out of what they were promised in almost every single treaty your country signed with them pay you anything EVER??? Are you going to honor their original treaties? No? Then maybe you should quit your whining. God.
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#603041 --- 07/13/07 10:16 AM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
How far does the pendulum swing? So the few remaining ancestors rake in billions in profits and go unchecked? Hell, if they want sovereign territory, give them a chunk of land and let them build their own country. Hell, give them the island of Manhattan back! I sure don't want it. And, for that matter, they can have California, too. Apparently, we are done with it since we are giving it to the Mexicans.

What our ancestors did was unexcusable. We have lost a great deal of the cultural wealth of this land. But, we are not paying back the people who were harmed. Most true native Americans don't want the money and certainly don't want the casinos. The people who want this deal are the fat cats who sleep in the same overpriced beds that your representatives sleep in down in DC.
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#603075 --- 07/13/07 10:58 AM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Don't you people ever think it's, well, IRONIC to complain about what you're "owed" by native peoples? I mean, really - isn't it the height of arrogance to demand that people who were driven to the edge of absolute extinction, stripped of their lands and culture, and cheated out of what they were promised in almost every single treaty your country signed with them pay you anything EVER??? Are you going to honor their original treaties? No? Then maybe you should quit your whining. God.


Do you plan on using that sympathy tactic for another 200 years?

You post is a prime example of the whiner. Take your own advice and stop whining.
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#603077 --- 07/13/07 11:00 AM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Don't you people ever think it's, well, IRONIC to complain about what you're "owed" by native peoples? I mean, really - isn't it the height of arrogance to demand that people who were driven to the edge of absolute extinction, stripped of their lands and culture, and cheated out of what they were promised in almost every single treaty your country signed with them pay you anything EVER??? Are you going to honor their original treaties? No? Then maybe you should quit your whining. God.



Are you saying that the tribes have never ever broke a treaty?

Why are the senecas now trying to charge NY for the thruway?


What treaty said that you are tax exempt off the rez?

.
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#603394 --- 07/13/07 08:58 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
LaughinWillow Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/12/01
Posts: 1950
Loc: State of Emergency
Why should tribes honor agreements with you, when their agreements weren't honored?
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#603694 --- 07/14/07 01:43 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Why should tribes honor agreements with you, when their agreements weren't honored?


What specific aspect of the treaty that was with your tribe was not honor?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#604299 --- 07/15/07 05:18 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
LaughinWillow Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/12/01
Posts: 1950
Loc: State of Emergency
Are you joking? The vast majority of treaties that the US signed with native tribes have NEVER been honored. I mean, if you really want, I can compile a list, but I feel like this is pretty common knowledge. I just don't get why you or anyone else thinks you're "owed" anything from native tribes. It's just hilarious. And the notion that because there are "fat cat" leaders profiting in the tribes, therefore they should pay taxes is ridiculous. You don't even require your own wealthy to pay the taxes they should - why not start with them instead of hassling indians? Seems a bit hypocritical to say anything about natives simply following in the footsteps of your own "great" country.
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War with civilization begins...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGxBizeiL3s

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#604326 --- 07/15/07 05:41 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
I will ask the question again.

What specific aspect of your treaty did the US not honor?
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#604745 --- 07/16/07 01:35 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
I will ask the question again.

What specific aspect of your treaty did the US not honor?



??????????????????????
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#605599 --- 07/18/07 07:23 AM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Are you joking?


It appears that you are the joke.
You seem to post drizzle without backing it up.
You are unable to answer a simple question.
I read thru a few of your other posts and am confused as you make comments about "your" governement (US) but then you turn around and represent the US government as your enemy.

Do you have split personalities?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#605601 --- 07/18/07 07:24 AM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
I will ask the question again.

What specific aspect of your treaty did the US not honor?



??????????????????????


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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#612464 --- 08/01/07 02:22 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Are you joking?


It appears that you are the joke.
You seem to post drizzle without backing it up.
You are unable to answer a simple question.
I read thru a few of your other posts and am confused as you make comments about "your" governement (US) but then you turn around and represent the US government as your enemy.

Do you have split personalities?




\:D \:D \:D







.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#646357 --- 09/22/07 01:39 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
When will the taxpayers get reimbursed for title insurance due to the fake land claims?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#646380 --- 09/22/07 02:23 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Greymane]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"Apparently, we are done with it since we are giving it to the Mexicans."

One could also phrase that. "....giving it BACK to the Mexicans.".

U.S. Grant:

"For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war [with Mexico] which resulted as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation."
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#648180 --- 09/25/07 02:19 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: VM Smith]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Who would win if it came down to the Mex or the tribe going to battle?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#648197 --- 09/25/07 02:54 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: LaughinWillow]
stargatersg1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 993
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: LaughinWillow
Are you joking? The vast majority of treaties that the US signed with native tribes have NEVER been honored. I mean, if you really want, I can compile a list, but I feel like this is pretty common knowledge. I just don't get why you or anyone else thinks you're "owed" anything from native tribes. It's just hilarious. And the notion that because there are "fat cat" leaders profiting in the tribes, therefore they should pay taxes is ridiculous. You don't even require your own wealthy to pay the taxes they should - why not start with them instead of hassling indians? Seems a bit hypocritical to say anything about natives simply following in the footsteps of your own "great" country.



So what is the solution? Do we go back in history and UNDO all of the wars fought and won/lost and give what was taken back to the "original" owner. Man that would be a lot of work.I believe in equality for all. They can live whereever they want but let them pay taxes and be treated like everyone else. This treaty crap is a joke. They LOST the war get over it and go forward. No special treatment.
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#648866 --- 09/26/07 09:14 AM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: stargatersg1]
SkySoldier Offline
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Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
My family was captured and enslaved centuries ago by Rome, the Huns and the Vikings.






I want reparations.
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We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

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#650583 --- 09/28/07 04:49 PM Re: $895 Million Owed NY by Tribes [Re: SkySoldier]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SkySoldier
My family was captured and enslaved centuries ago by Rome, the Huns and the Vikings.






I want reparations.


Would that mean that everyone owes something to everyone else?

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