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#580451 --- 05/22/07 09:55 PM Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ?
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Received a call from the Auburn Citizen tonight asking what my comment was on the 10,000 acres limit on a Cayuga reservation and casino deal regarding their fee to trust applications.

Seems there has been MORE behind closed door negotiations after the fact without a land claim to even settle.

I told her there was no land claim to settle and IGRA didn't have a casino exception for trust applications on lands purchased after 1988. The Citizen replied that the Cayuga tribe claims their land claim is still alive, that it was only settled in the courts.

It would seem humerous if it weren't for the idiot politcians in this state that want to screw us over for a dollar and a dream.

Then there are those that are scared if we don't make a deal, we might lose it all. Hmmmm. I've heard that before.

Seems the Harris Beach law firm didn't make enough money on the land claim that only lasted 26 years.

Reply to uce@rochester.rr.com

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#580604 --- 05/23/07 08:34 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Mysteryman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/08/04
Posts: 2173
Loc: laughing in your face
Not for nothing but it was inevitable that there would be a settlement.

The revenue from this hopefully will relieve some of the burden on the taxpayers.

There is no state income tax in the state of Nevada.

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#580798 --- 05/23/07 02:48 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
justaxme Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
"I expected more development, more spin-offs," he said. "This is a small, depressed city (Niagara falls, NY). There are no jobs; the young people leave. Nobody wants to invest here."

We, and now Seneca and Cayuga counties can look forward to the same.

http://www.news-register.net/News/articles.asp?articleID=19780

Professional lifetime politicians, a few indian chiefs, lawyers and a couple developers are the only winners.


Edited by justaxme (05/23/07 02:49 PM)
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#580839 --- 05/23/07 03:27 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
LittleKing Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 168
This deal may not save the counties but I somehow doubt the fifteen million will make them worse off.

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#580901 --- 05/23/07 06:03 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: LittleKing]
Laker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/13/00
Posts: 239
Loc: SF, NY USA
folks - not again. this governor is as dumb as the last.

Doesn't any one get it. Casinos are just another means of taxing you. Go stick your nickel/quarter into a slot machine and the state and tribe will collect it from you. I guess you must feel better about paying the tax than getting the bill in the mail and writing a check.

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#580911 --- 05/23/07 06:35 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Laker]
justaxme Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Originally Posted By: Laker
folks - not again. this governor is as dumb as the last.

Doesn't any one get it. Casinos are just another means of taxing you. Go stick your nickel/quarter into a slot machine and the state and tribe will collect it from you. I guess you must feel better about paying the tax than getting the bill in the mail and writing a check.


And who are these clowns that have negotiated a "deal" in secret with no public input, behind closed doors (with their hands out) and that they will now be trying to cram down our throats?
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#580931 --- 05/23/07 07:44 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
Driver8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/00
Posts: 1081
Loc: Seneca Falls
A prediction: the rednecks and bigots will find a way to torpedo this deal. The Cayugas will then turn around, apply to the federal government and get the casino anyway. The only difference will be that instead of $15 million we won't get anything.

Talcott, Richie and the rest will pat themselves on the back for screwing the rest of us out of this money and then move out of state when their property taxes get too high.

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#580937 --- 05/23/07 08:11 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Driver8]
justaxme Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
i love the responses from the pro casino folks. If you aren't for the casinos your a "redneck or bigot".
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#580955 --- 05/23/07 08:50 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: justaxme
And who are these clowns that have negotiated a "deal" in secret with no public input, behind closed doors (with their hands out) and that they will now be trying to cram down our throats?


UCE is working on an official press release that may be a few days before finalized. All I've had to work with is the official "joint" press release and newspaper articles. Neither the Cayuga Co. attorney, chairman, or legislators were involved and were only handed a summary three days ago by Harris Beach. None of them have even seen the proposal and the devil is always in the details.

Hopefully they'll have a chance to read it before being asked to vote on it, UNlike the proposed settlements of yesteryear.

I know Dave Dresser, the Seneca Co. Land Claim Committee Chairman, is in favor of it. I'm guessing Harris Beach was paid by the state to work out another casino deal.

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#581288 --- 05/24/07 01:11 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Don Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/12/00
Posts: 1854
Loc: Seneca Falls, NY
This is crap. The Supreme Court rules one way so the Cayugas go back door to the BIA. I say we fight them again tooth and nail. Everytime they try to find a loophole we should be there to shut it down. A lawsuit against the federal government might be in order. Instead, our politicians are figuring out how to divvy up $15 million.

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#581332 --- 05/24/07 02:41 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: LittleKing]
justaxme Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
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Originally Posted By: LittleKing
This deal may not save the counties but I somehow doubt the fifteen million will make them worse off.


Better make sure you know where this $15 million (pocket change) is going:

"When the Seneca Niagara came to his community, Anderson said, he saw it as an opportunity to fix the streets and sidewalks of the decaying city. In September, the Seneca Nation presented New York state officials with more than $68 million as part of the state’s revenue share payment agreement. But Anderson said “politics” have kept that money from helping the city."
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#581498 --- 05/24/07 11:06 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Don
This is crap. I say we fight them again tooth and nail.


Don, I'm with you and we're not alone. As Wisner Kinne said, "Fight Like Hell".

This proposal has so many holes in it, one couldn't hit it with a shotgun. Details later - not enough minutes in a day.

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#581980 --- 05/26/07 07:34 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Gio Offline
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Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 16476
Loc: Cleveland
What is the economic condition of the non-indian businesses and residents in the imediate area of Turning Stone? How did the school district that Turning Stone is in make out with having the casino? How many new jobs and "support" businesses were created when Turning Stone started?
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#582385 --- 05/28/07 05:50 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Gio]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
What is the economic condition of the non-indian businesses and residents in the imediate area of Turning Stone? How did the school district that Turning Stone is in make out with having the casino? How many new jobs and "support" businesses were created when Turning Stone started?
_________________________

The non-Indian businesses in the immediate area, convenience stores have all either been shut down or bought off by the tribe. Locally, the one in Union Springs lost 84% of it's business, which is why it will not reopen thanks to Governor Spitzer. The restaurants were also affected and some have been bought by the tribe. Grocery stores are also losing business. No non-tribal marinas on the end of the lake the Turning Stone is on sell gas anymore. The county coroner's business is booming and he sometimes needs help, but he's been told not to brag about all the new business he's received thanks to the Turning Stone.

As to "support" businesses, well let's see, they all received letters telling them they had to support Halbritter's applications to place 17,000 acres into federal trust or lose their business with the resort. Assemblywoman RoAnn DeStito's husband got a contract with the tribe, that's one job created. Maybe that's why she isn't as vocal as Townsend. Oh, and the sales tax there is ten percent now to make up for the businesses that were lost that used to pay into the tax structure and loss in property taxes. The school distrrict get silver trinket awards donated to it at a fraction of what the taxes would be and such donations have been witheld in the past.

Two days ago, Assemblyman Townsend held a news conference at Arnott's grocery store at the corner of Route 31 and Main Street in Verona, urging the Nation to "start paying property taxes" and appealing to Gov. Eliot Spitzer to follow through on his plan to collect sales taxes from Indian enterprises across the state.

He said the Arnott's site was selected for the news conference as "just an example of a...family business trying to stay alive...hang on," while paying regular taxes in the face of the Nation's competitive advantage from not making such payments.

"This is costing local residents and businesses millions and millions of dollars," Townsend said. "We are calling on Ray Halbritter to finally live up to his words as a good neighbor and start paying property taxes they owe."

Townsend said the nation owes $248 million in property and sales taxes.

Also speaking in agreement with Townsend were county legislator Michael Hennessy, D-2, Sherrill, and representatives of Citizens Equal Rights Alliance, Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association and Central New York Fair Business Association.

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#582655 --- 05/29/07 06:34 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don]
Laker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/13/00
Posts: 239
Loc: SF, NY USA
There's a difference this time," said Cayuga attorney Dan French.

"When the courts threw out the Cayuga judgment and land claim, they also took away the Seneca-Cayugas' standing as a successor in interest," said French.

"There is no claim. You can't be a successor of interest to nothing," French said .


Edited by Laker (05/29/07 06:38 AM)

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#582810 --- 05/29/07 04:28 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Laker]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
He has it right however he should have expanded on that and included the Cayuga faction out of Buffalo. They have an interest in nothing.

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#583918 --- 05/31/07 09:00 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Upstate Citizens for Equality (UCE) is opposed to the Cayuga Trust Land settlement.

Recently lawyers from Governor Spitzer's office, the Harris Beach law firm that is supposed to be protecting the counties from Indian claims, Cayuga spokesman Clint Halftown's lawyer (Dan French, who by the way is not the lawyer for the Cayuga tribe. The lawyer for the Cayuga tribe is Joe Heath, who is opposing the proposed "deal") and a few others made another behind closed door negotiation to create a 10,000 acre Cayuga reservation in six parcels spread over two counties in exchange for the Cayuga tribe dropping their trust applications and not filing any more.

Some politicians caught the "we can't win disease" and were prescribed Alice in Wonderland's Magic pill and things aren't as they appear. This effort to place a cap on how much trust land a tribe can apply for throws the laundry out with the wash water.

UCE opposes this because the trust land applications circumventing the loss of the Cayuga land claim to create a reservation in an attempt to qualify for a casino can be defeated in the courts. There are lawsuits in process challenging the applicability of trust lands to the colony states that have a good chance of winning. If trust land status is ruled to be illegal in the colony states, any trust land forcibly established in the meantime would be rescinded and revert back to what it was. This deal of allowing the Cayuga tribe 10,000 acres of restricted fee land instead of trust land, which the Cayuga know they could lose in court, would not qualify to revert back to fee simple taxable status when the anti-trust lawsuits win.

Trust lands for tribes were authorized for public domain lands under the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act (IRA). The IRA gave tribes one year, later extended to two years to vote on accepting or rejecting the Act's provision. 258 elections were held, 181 accepted and 77 rejected. Groups rejecting the IRA included the Hopi, who saw it as culturally alien, and the "fiercely independent" Iroquois tribes, which include the Cayuga.

The Commissioner of Indian Affairs, John Collier, warned the tribes that those who reject the Act must reject all of it and do not have the trust period automatically extended. Alleged pro-Communist John Collier was the author of the IRA and was at odds with Congress, which removed or modified most of the original IRA in the Wheeler-Howard Bill authorizing its implementation.

The original IRA authorized landless tribes to use their own funds to purchase lands for trust applications. In the Wheeler-Howard Bill, Congress removed that authorization and limited any purchasing of lands to Congress. Furthermore, the stipulation was included that such tribe must not be affiliated with any tribe that still had land upon which they may settle. The Cayuga have such lands on the Seneca Cattaraugus Reservation.

Congress has appropriated no funds for purchasing lands for the Cayuga. The Cayuga rejected the Act and have lands for their use with an affiliated tribe.

Furthermore, the Secretary of the Interior does not have the authority to impose Indian reservations within this State and Congress, itself, has no Constitutional power to do so. There never were federal public domain lands or federal reservations here to revert back. Plus, the State can't simply give land to an Indian tribe. State law (Section 10) forbids the Governor from diminishing the State's sovereignty for any reason; federal Indian law only allows for land to be given to a tribe if the tribe drops a pending land claim in exchange for such a settlement. There is no land claim.

UCE maintains that the reference in Sherrill to Trust Lands was dictum, and merely showed that the court considered all possibilities. They could not address that issue because it was not part of the lawsuit. That reference made no ruling, gave no such authority, and made no promises. The Court's reasoning for ruling the way it did emphasized the "disruptive" effects that would result from it. Nothing has changed.

Currently, a 1954 permanent easement to the State for the Thruway is being "rescinded" by the Senecas because they feel like taxing cars at $1 per car - despite the finality of the 1954 agreement. There is no such thing as a permanent fix unless and until the government recognizes that all citizens should be equal under the law.

State Assemblyman Dave Townsend recently urged people to send letters to the Oneida tribe requesting they start paying taxes on their lands, as ruled upon by the U.S. Supreme Court. But the tribes aren't so much the problem as are our own local, state and federal officials who promote racial divides and refuse to enforce existing laws. Those letters should have been directed at elected officials.

UCE maintains that tribes in New York could not win a trust land battle in the courts and if it weren't for UCE pushing and a few honorable politicians we wouldn't have defeated the tribe's 1980 land claim lawsuit and won.

The fundamental issue here is not casinos or how much money may go to the counties or state. At issue is the sanctity of our state's sovereignty and the U.S. Constitution. Let the Department of Interior make their decision so we can fight it in the courts.

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#584067 --- 06/01/07 07:45 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
justaxme Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Did King Tim L and his developer buddy go to Albany so they could discuss the Mayors cut in this casino if he helps cram it down our throats? Sounds like he has made this decision without any "OPEN" discussion with the city or county citizens. He is a typical professional lifetime politician that figures he knows what is best for us even though they don't ask or listen.
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#584488 --- 06/01/07 03:50 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Here are a few excerpts from recent Federal and State Court opinions involving sovereign immunity of Indian Tribes. the courts are starting to understand the absurdity of court established sovereign immunity. Things are and will change rapidly as the current Indian doctrine is not sustainable.



"Tribal sovereign immunity - the legal principle that Indian tribal governments, like other sovereigns, may not be sued without their own consent - is under a full frontal attack. Consider these passages from recent federal and state court opinions:

Tribal immunity is ''divorced from the realities of the modern world.''

''[H]opefully [tribes] will eventually conclude that this litigation tactic [of asserting sovereign immunity] is not the best policy to promote a profitable business.''

''[T]he constitutional right of the State to preserve its republican form of government trumps the common law doctrine of tribal immunity""


The Seneca and Cayuga CO Boards of supervisors should pay attention to what is happening in Indian Affairs throughout the country and not be quick to accept proposals being hawked by those who stand to gain by them. That includes the empty promises to provide a cut (bribe) from projected casino revenues to the counties if they agree to the most recent proposal.

For the large amount of revenue being discussed in that proposal to be available it is obvious they will need to locate a casino nearer to a large center of population, NYC for instance. There is no reason to promise Seneca and Cayuga CO any phantom money, remember this is projected money that may never materialize if there is no casino. Offering such sums is a blatant bribe to diffuse local opposition to establishing a land base that would be free of taxes and local law. In essence they are asking for a settlement of a non existent land claim as that is the easiest way they might establish sovereignty that is necessary to open a casino.

And that can create any number of problems for local governmental jurisdictions. Take a moment to read the Indian Times or Today in Indian County and read of the myriad law suits being filed, currently in the courts or recently ruled on by the courts.


The BIA's authority to take land into trust or fee status in New York State is highly suspect and should be tested in court before any proposal to establish sovereignty for individual groups is approved.

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#586287 --- 06/05/07 03:40 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Mr. Dresser chairman of the Indian Affairs committee for Seneca CO recently said and I quote:


"Federal Indian policy is fundamentally flawed. Both law and statute support tribal sovereignty, an arrangement that promotes segregation on the basis of race, deprives Native Americans living on reservations of their constitutional rights and exempts them from following regulations that apply to other citizens. Many feel this special treatment violates the 14th Amendment to our Constitution "

I believe in that statement and I continue to support the concept of racial equality. Reservations are a product of the 1800's and have no place in today's society. It is a disservice to the Indian and to all other citizens of this country.


Many years ago I attended a meeting at the NYSC campus and we were told by the US Justice department to either support the governments position on the Cayuga claim or lose all 64000 acres plus possibly our homes.. In a private conversation when a State official was questioned over one of the many proposals to provide trust land to the Cayuga he remarked" Do not rock the boat".


Many of us did not support that position then and we do not now., Time has proven the government was wrong and the Cayuga Claim was dismissed by the courts.


I hold firm to my belief that Indian sovereignty is wrong, must be curtailed, not expanded.


The authority of the BIA to take New York State land into trust or restricted fee status should be tested in court. By agreeing to the most recent proposal they avoid the crucial court test of that authority.

It is my opinion this latest proposal from those who stand to gain by it is not a compromise, but complete surrender.

The Cayuga have been paid 8 different times for that land and I remain opposed to any offer to the Cayugas.

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#586873 --- 06/06/07 02:57 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: grinch]
BraveHeart Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/12/00
Posts: 17740
Loc: TOV Seneca Falls
Time has proven that this "final" deal will not be that.

Once we give them this, they will only demand more.
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#586902 --- 06/06/07 05:27 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: BraveHeart]
Gio Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 16476
Loc: Cleveland
I absolutely agree with you BH. Cave now and it will only keep snowballing.
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#586931 --- 06/06/07 07:54 PM Judge rejects UCE lawsuit [Re: Gio]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Judge rejects land trust suit

A federal judge has tossed out a lawsuit aimed at delaying the Oneida Indian Nation's request to put land into trust.

The lawsuit was filed too early because the federal secretary of the Interior has taken no action on the requests by the Oneidas and five other tribes, U.S. District Judge David Hurd ruled last week. Hurd said a suit can be filed only after a federal agency takes some kind of action.

The citizens groups say the federal government needs to include all the applications in a single environmental study "to assess the cumulative jurisdictional impacts." Federal officials argued that the requests are separate and have no influence on each other.

Six land trust applications are pending in New York. The Oneidas', at 17,370 acres, is the largest. The other requests are for a total of 744 acres and were filed by the Oneidas of Wisconsin, the Cayuga Indian Nation, the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma, the St. Regis Mohawks and the Stockbridge-Munsee Band of Mohican Indians.

Wednesday, June 06, 2007
By Glenn Coin
Staff writer
© 2007 Syracuse Online, LLC.

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#587070 --- 06/07/07 05:43 AM Re: Judge rejects UCE lawsuit [Re: newsman38]
racefan73 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1160
Loc: seneca-cayuga
Where does the Mighty Gov. Elliott Spitzer weigh in on this? Haven't heard what his stand was. As I recall, he wasn't willing to make deals with the Indians during his campaign for governor. What happened to that, did he forget about his promises? No different from the other politicians. I don't understand why our government takes the side of the Indian tribes, not just here but all across the country. I don't know if they vote, but I know we do. We put these politicians in office. We pay the taxes, not he Indians. Most of all, our voice goes un heard or ignored.

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#587333 --- 06/07/07 05:14 PM Re: Judge rejects UCE lawsuit [Re: racefan73]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
you don't have the capital the indians have, most should know, the one that can pay the most wins ;\) \:\(
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#587462 --- 06/08/07 05:52 AM Re: Judge rejects UCE lawsuit [Re: racefan73]
Headless Horseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 213
Originally Posted By: racefan73
Where does the Mighty Gov. Elliott Spitzer weigh in on this? Haven't heard what his stand was. As I recall, he wasn't willing to make deals with the Indians during his campaign for governor.


Spitzer only said he wouldn't make deals with "out of state" tribes. His opponent pointed out what that really meant. He also pointed out that Spitzer was flying around the state in a plane lent to him by a casino developer. But the local yocals here, like the rest of the state, didn't pay attention and followed "the Sheriff of Wall Street" down the primose path.

The counties have lost this one. Take the money and run before we end up like Madison and Oneida counties with nothing at all.

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#587594 --- 06/08/07 09:52 AM Re: Judge rejects UCE lawsuit [Re: newsman38]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
Originally Posted By: newsman38
Judge rejects land trust suit

A federal judge has tossed out a lawsuit aimed at delaying the Oneida Indian Nation's request to put land into trust.

The lawsuit was filed too early because the federal secretary of the Interior has taken no action on the requests by the Oneidas and five other tribes, U.S. District Judge David Hurd ruled last week. Hurd said a suit can be filed only after a federal agency takes some kind of action.

The citizens groups say the federal government needs to include all the applications in a single environmental study "to assess the cumulative jurisdictional impacts." Federal officials argued that the requests are separate and have no influence on each other.

Six land trust applications are pending in New York. The Oneidas', at 17,370 acres, is the largest. The other requests are for a total of 744 acres and were filed by the Oneidas of Wisconsin, the Cayuga Indian Nation, the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma, the St. Regis Mohawks and the Stockbridge-Munsee Band of Mohican Indians.

Wednesday, June 06, 2007
By Glenn Coin
Staff writer
© 2007 Syracuse Online, LLC.


UCE was not a party to this lawsuit.

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#588858 --- 06/11/07 03:18 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: justaxme
And who are these clowns that have negotiated a "deal" in secret with no public input, behind closed doors (with their hands out) and that they will now be trying to cram down our throats?


UCE is working on an official press release that may be a few days before finalized. All I've had to work with is the official "joint" press release and newspaper articles. Neither the Cayuga Co. attorney, chairman, or legislators were involved and were only handed a summary three days ago by Harris Beach. None of them have even seen the proposal and the devil is always in the details.

Hopefully they'll have a chance to read it before being asked to vote on it, UNlike the proposed settlements of yesteryear.

I know Dave Dresser, the Seneca Co. Land Claim Committee Chairman, is in favor of it. I'm guessing Harris Beach was paid by the state to work out another casino deal.


Rich, how do you think the DOI is going to rule on the Turning Stone this thursday? Every court in the land has called it illegal. Do you think the DOI will wave it's magic wand and make it legal? What a joke the law of the land is. If you have enough money you can BUY anything. Including the law!!!!
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#588865 --- 06/11/07 03:21 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Gambling compact is on the line
Oneida leader, Spitzer meet after learning agreement is under review

By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Tuesday, March 20, 2007

ALBANY -- Oneida Indian Nation leader Ray Halbritter met with Gov. Eliot Spitzer Monday, four days after the U.S. Department of the Interior revealed in a letter to both men that the legal basis for opening the tribe's Turning Stone Casino is under "reconsideration."

The letter, obtained by the Times Union, gives the state leverage that could force the Oneida to share millions of dollars in gambling revenues with the state.


The March 15 letter, addressed to Halbritter and Spitzer, says the two leaders have until April 30 to notify the Interior Department that they've begun negotiations on a new gaming compact. Otherwise, by June 15, the department will announce its ruling on whether Turning Stone can be allowed to remain open.

"The department does not take lightly the decision to reconsider a compact," wrote Larry Jensen, deputy solicitor for the DOI. "This is the first time the department has taken this step."

An Oneida spokesman, Mark Emery, said the meeting with Spitzer was a general discussion about how the state and nation might resolve some outstanding issues, including the tribe's land claim, Turning Stone's continued operation, and taxation of Oneida retail sales.

He said the DOI letter, received Friday, means the federal government wants to break agreements the tribe made with George Washington involving the makeup of its reservation and former Gov. Mario Cuomo, who issued the 1993 gaming compact for the casino.

Spitzer said he had not read the letter. An aide said later it is under review.

In 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the casino is built on nonsovereign property, while a state court declared the gaming compact invalid because the Legislature did not act on it.

The Cuomo administration granted the Oneida a compact that does not require the tribe to share any gambling revenues with the state. The other two tribes with compacts, the Mohawks and the Seneca, provide a cut of slot machine revenue to the state.
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#588952 --- 06/11/07 11:20 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: justaxme
Rich, how do you think the DOI is going to rule on the Turning Stone this thursday? Every court in the land has called it illegal. Do you think the DOI will wave it's magic wand and make it legal? What a joke the law of the land is. If you have enough money you can BUY anything. Including the law!!!!


Well Axme, I'm not even going to make the call. The thing of it is, the NIGC is a rule making body with no jurisdiction, which is why the compromise was made in their rules to force tribes to get compacts from the states to open class three casinos. That gives the states jurisdiction. The courts have already ruled that way and explained it that way.

But, as you say, if the law can be bought by buying off the Governor, there is no law. Spitzer is an incompetent. The Shinnecock on L.I. get shut down for not remitting sales tax because there are more people there with "influence". Follow the money trail.

The thing of it is, the DOI has made statements that imply they may shut it down. To NOT do so at this point would make other tribes realize throughout the country that they can all get away with it. I think the DOI has put themselves in a situation where they'll have to.

That's what Spitzer is banking on, then he can claim he wasn't the bad guy. What the DOI SHOULD do is bring both Spitzer and Halbritter up on charges under Title 18.

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#589256 --- 06/12/07 04:42 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Federal policy is said to promote Indian Sovereignty. But at what cost to the tribes and the rest of us. The policy is flawed and those who agree it is yet throw up their hands and say there is nothing we can do about it are wrong. There is something that can be done, do not approve proposals from Indian Tribes, close down illegal casinos and businesses that refuse to collect sales taxes. That would be a start.

Here are a few problems that Indian Sovereignty has spawned.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/arti...MjYxMTIyWj.html

Some more interesting reading:

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070612/NEWS/706120312

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070612/OPINION/706120304/1001

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#589745 --- 06/13/07 04:25 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Looks like the DOI over rules the NY and US Supreme Courts. It's a sad day. I don't care whether you are for or against the TS Casino. But when a Department of the Federal Government tells you the courts mean nothing and they are the final word, it's a sad day. Money talks and justice walks.


Edited by justaxme (06/13/07 04:28 PM)
_________________________
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#589764 --- 06/13/07 05:05 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
These reporters crack me up. Most don't know what they are talking about. Especially regarding the landclaims. They seem to think that the DOI is god and they they are the final word. Don't expect our gutless professional Lifetime Politicians to do anything!!! Let's just let a "department" make Federal and State law.
_________________________
I'm Justaxme, and I approved this message.

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#589787 --- 06/13/07 05:52 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Unbelieveable.

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#589790 --- 06/13/07 05:58 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: grinch]
Driver8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/00
Posts: 1081
Loc: Seneca Falls
Weren't you UCE geniuses the same people who said that Turning Stone would be shut down? And now you tell us that we'll beat the Cayugas land trust?

You guys don't have a great track record right now.

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#589871 --- 06/13/07 09:37 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Driver8]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
The UCE has won every court case it was involved in. They didn't have the money to buy off the DOI and all the sleezy professional lifetime politicians. I am not a member of the UCE but I am thankful for the work they do. Let's face it, New York is headed downhill and the growth of casino gambling is just a symptom of a sick and dying state.
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I'm Justaxme, and I approved this message.

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#589882 --- 06/13/07 10:08 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
The Casino Industry will be the savior of NYS. We must encourage these Native American Casino's to be built and employ the many New Yorkers that are out of work and give them a means to make a living wage and prosper.


Saying Casino's are the downfall and not stating the same rational for new and existing liquor stores and wine stores is contridictary and just plain ignorant....
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#590008 --- 06/14/07 09:37 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
June 14, 2007
DOI won't revoke Oneida Nation gaming compact
printer friendly
The Interior Department won't rescind its approval for the Oneida Nation's gaming compact with the state of New York.

Associate deputy secretary Jim Cason said it was too late to review the 1993 deal. There is no mechanism in the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act to revoke compacts, he told the tribe [PDF].

The tribe hailed the decision. "I want you to know from me personally that your jobs are safe," nation representative Ray Halbritter told employees, The Syracuse Post-Standard reported. The Turning Stone Resort Casino employs 5,000 people

The tribe vowed it would go to court to keep the facility open if DOI rescinded its approval of the compact, which was invalidated in the state courts.

Get the Story:
Turning Stone Allowed To Continue Operating (The Syracuse Post-Standard 6/14) http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2007/003421.asp
Well Dick, Dan you will need to keep looking for a way to close down Turning Stone. The Stone still turns.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#590333 --- 06/15/07 03:41 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Laker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/13/00
Posts: 239
Loc: SF, NY USA
get a job ! hey maybe they will give you a job at the crap table. since your so full of it . how is the dream on 90 doing ? i see some corn thats it .

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#590524 --- 06/15/07 10:48 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
The recent decision by the United States Department of the Interior regarding its approval of the tribal-state compact between the Oneida Indian Nation of New York and the State of New York demonstrates that it has abdicated its role as charged by Congress and its role regarding Indian issues should be abolished. Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut Attorney General, in commenting on the Bureau of Indian Affairs in March, 2004 stated that “this rogue agency, out of control, lawless, ready to twist and distort logic and law in reaching a result driven by money and politics.” This is the case in its most recent action. This criticism is not only from those outside the agency, Earl Devaney the Inspector General for the U.S. Department of the Interior testified before Congress recently that “Short of a crime, anything goes at the highest levels of the Department of the Interior.” That could explain why common sense and adherence to the law doesn't seem to matter.

It is well settled that the issue of whether or not a State has entered into a compact under IGRA is determined by state law and the DOI cannot make an invalid compact valid by administrative fiat. In 1995 the New Mexico Supreme Court determined that its governor lacked the authority to enter into a compact under IGRA in the absence of legislative authorization (this is the identical issue decided by the New York courts in Peterman v. Pataki). The United States District Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit held that "that the Governor's lack of authority was fatal to the compacts' validity under IGRA" in Jicarilla Apache Tribe v. Kelly, 129 F.3d 535. In Pueblo of Santa Ana v. Kelly, 104 F.3d 1546 the Tenth Circuit held that "[w]hile preservation of tribal sovereignty was clearly of great concern to Congress, respect for state interests relating to class III gaming was also of great concern. We are hesitant to conclude that Congress intended to permit a state to be bound by a compact regulating class III gaming which it never validly entered."

It is clear that under the law the compact between the Oneidas and the State of New York was not validly entered into and is therefore is invalid under IGRA. The governor of the State of New York is mandated by our State Constitution to enforce all laws and is bound by the judgment of our Courts that this compact was never validly entered into.

The Governor must enforce the law of the State of New York and put an end to the illegal gambling engaged in at the Turning Stone Casino. If he fails to carry out his constitutional duties UCE will do what it can to force the Governor’s hand.


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#592263 --- 06/19/07 03:26 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: dwarren]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
This could not be happening in New York State, or could it?

http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2007/003489.asp

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#592681 --- 06/20/07 10:16 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Laker]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
LOL. why don't you take your own addvice and get a job? Why would I need to deal cards, when I make money from the casino without doing anything. We own a part of our homeland again, it's a dream come true. How are you doing with your dreams? LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#592789 --- 06/20/07 11:43 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Laker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/13/00
Posts: 239
Loc: SF, NY USA
my dream is to retire after working 30 years as a teamster . no free ride for the working man , and proud of it . are you proud you get your so called living from gambling ?

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#593045 --- 06/20/07 10:17 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Laker]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Okla's probably proud he's on welfare, or gets paid to glean what he can from this forum, or gets paid from the quarters that drop on the casino floor. LOL His words make it obvious he's not proud to have paid his own way in life. But that's what tribalism breads.

Oh - PS - Hi Okla. Heard from Sworldt you had some inner strife in your tribal government. Just can't get your head on straight can ya?

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#593295 --- 06/21/07 10:38 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Tricky Dicki:
The exact words were some problems. And i did not imply to what if any it may have been. Just wanted to see if you were trust worthy. As i suspected "NOT".
Dicki you were baited.
UCE UNTRUST WORTHY

Jump little fish. roflmao

But as i said you and i do agree the Cayuga's agreement will only fuel a legal battle between the two tribes and the community will be caught in the middle.


Edited by sworldt (06/21/07 11:02 AM)
_________________________

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#593327 --- 06/21/07 11:27 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Hey jerk if anyone is a welfare case it's you. Don't bother sending me your crap by p.m. I still see it as crap. And just for you I never got a thing from the Tribe until 3 years ago. I paid off my house and everything I have over 20 years ago. I work hard and make a good living growning and selling produce. I am looking to buy more land as I can't keep up with the demand on the land I now own. My wife and I have been together for over 28 years. How is your wife doing, oh that's right she kicked your sorry ass out. As for the Tribe, Paul won the election hands down. Now the losers are fighting it, but we knew they would. You might look at your self and try to get your head on straight before you talk about others. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#593925 --- 06/22/07 10:20 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Thanks Okla:

Nice of you to get back on, like I said in the p.m., I don't have anything against anybody. We just have different philosophies. Glad my welfare bait got your goat. This thread was getting rather dull.

And - Sworldt: "some problems" regarding tribal elections is also called inner strife. As to what we agree on, I admit we agree. Nothing has changed. Both tribes were always at odds with each other and the community. But everything has changed. The tribes no longer have a land claim. Trust applications follow land claim settlements anyway. We're merely in the final stage, but the third rung on the ladder broke and the tribes are back to ground zero with a broken ladder.

Have a nice day.

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#593977 --- 06/22/07 12:12 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Tribal elections maybe inner strife,but it didn't come from me.
As i stated i hadn't been in touch with the tribe much because, there were a few problems period with no explanation.

The only thing you and i agree on is the Cayuga's agreement is not a good one and should not be allowed.

As to any land claim being dead.As the Supremes told the tribes to apply for trust status which they are in fact doing.And as most reasonable people realize there will be trust land here,the only question is how much?

One indicator maybe seen on the recent ruling on the stone.It will keep turning.
_________________________

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#593982 --- 06/22/07 12:17 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Okla: As you noticed i haven't been in the forums much.It is more of the same. Some people don't care about anything but continuing the fight at all costs.In the end this will be settled and as most things it will be done without much involvement from any of us.
_________________________

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#594758 --- 06/25/07 04:16 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Originally Posted By: sworldt
Okla: As you noticed i haven't been in the forums much.It is more of the same. Some people don't care about anything but continuing the fight at all costs.In the end this will be settled and as most things it will be done without much involvement from any of us.


Your right!!

http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2007/003489.asp

Opinion: Investigate California gaming compacts:
"The road to ratification of tribal casino expansion deals leading to Sacramento and of the largest expansion of gambling in American history is littered with private deals, silenced communities, co-opted police, media, local governments and elected officials who have been summarily bought-off.

Our professional lifetime politicians are all on the take. I applaud the people who continue to fight for what they think is right. Most people lay down and let government and corruption walk all over them. This is all about money and nothing more.


Edited by justaxme (06/25/07 04:17 AM)
_________________________
I'm Justaxme, and I approved this message.

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#594888 --- 06/25/07 10:52 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
"I don't have anything against anybody." Then you should not be posting such crap as you did about me. We proved that the land deal was illegal. We may not have got any money but it paved the way for us to get land placed in trust. My opinion is that this Cayuga settlement offer is nothing more then a ploy to bring other Tribes to the table. The last governor was doing the same things as this one is. I don't see this offer going any place. Even if the locals pass it, it will never pass in congress without my Tribe being a part of it. Things are still going as planed. It may seem to you that we are back to ground zero, but we now have a s.c. rulling that the way is to have our land placed in trust. Oh by the way I haven't posted as much because I haven't seen much of anything worth my time. So we do agree on one thing. This thread is rather dull.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#595014 --- 06/25/07 04:07 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
Love the huge ad in the paper
_________________________
remember the smile



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#595669 --- 06/26/07 09:17 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? *DELETED* [Re: Okla.ndn]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
Post deleted by FL1 Staff

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#595685 --- 06/26/07 09:56 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Don: Since when do you resort to making threats against someone because they don't agree with you? I think your a jack a-- you care to threaten me as well. This just shows how simple minded and desperate you are. You have a good nite.
_________________________

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#595686 --- 06/26/07 10:02 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
You are apparently a female ,or a shemale .There were no "threats" involved in my post.Simply my opinion.Quit whining.

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#595688 --- 06/26/07 10:07 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
why don't you and your welfare boys group up,and come here and we can re enact what happened all those years ago...you got your azz handed to you,and that handled it.Then the commie liberals got all weepy and gave you what you have NO right to.We can settle this again,and it won't have anything to do with the communist courts,it will have everything to do with you not being able to defend yourselves.Come and get it big boy.

it will have everything to do with you not being able to defend yourselves.Come and get it big boy.

it will have everything to do with you not being able to defend yourselves.Come and get it big boy.

you want to try and bs again. I'm neither and i sure as he-- am not intimidated by the likes of you.
_________________________

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#595689 --- 06/26/07 10:14 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
I can only repeat myself."intimidation" is a keyword of "statespeak" .Are you,by chance a state worker ?

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#595690 --- 06/26/07 10:16 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
so you can't bs your way out so your going to spin. UCE style.
_________________________

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#595691 --- 06/26/07 10:18 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
answer my question,please.

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#595692 --- 06/26/07 10:19 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
I am waiting...

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#595693 --- 06/26/07 10:20 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
spin don. and my employment is none of your business.

stop making threats against any poster that does not share your opinion.
_________________________

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#595694 --- 06/26/07 10:22 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
Answer my question ,please...

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#595695 --- 06/26/07 10:28 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
I am waiting...

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#595923 --- 06/27/07 11:02 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Who really presented the latest Cayuga proposal? Exactly who are you dealing with? The Cayuga of New York dispute their leadership while the BIA recognizes only Halftown. They are ignoring the other half of this faction. Under this proposal the Seneca Cayuga are to be excluded and they too are in dispute over who is to lead them, see attached news article. If this proposal is accepted there will be law suits by the half of the Cayuga who do not recognize Halftown, and certainly when the Seneca Cayuga decide who is chief they will sue as well plus private groups who are interested in this mess.


Dr Dresser and Indian Committee members: You would better serve the public interest by spending your time seeking ways to fight the land into trust process and end this. Enlist the aide of our Senators and Representatives to put finality to this fiasco. If they will not attempt to do so, work to elect those who will represent our interests. If Harris Beech will not put up a decent argument against the trust process seek a law firm that will. Rich Ricci and Fearon have it right, get a second opinion from another law firm




Recent election cited in dispute between Seneca-Cayuga factions

— By Sheila Stogsdill
news@joplinglobe.com
GROVE, Okla. — A dispute over a recent Seneca-Cayuga election has led to the closing of the tribe’s tobacco factory, leaving 60 employees without jobs on Tuesday.
Chief Paul Spicer said Gary Toland, manager of the factory, shut down the operation. Spicer said the tribe did not have materials, and alleged that the tribe’s secretary-treasurer had illegally frozen the tribe’s financial accounts.
Without free access to its accounts, the tribe cannot buy raw materials for its tobacco factory, Spicer said.
In front of the tobacco factory, Kay Crow-Ellison, tribal secretary-treasurer, and Sharon “Katie” Birdsong, second chief, had a news conference denying Spicer’s allegations. They said they wanted to clear up any misconceptions about the tribe’s finances.
Both women said there are materials at the factory.
In a memo dated June 25 to tobacco factory employees, Seneca-Cayuga Tribal Corp. began laying off workers, saying the bank accounts were inaccessible.
Crow-Ellison said Spicer is misleading tribal members when he says the factory was closed because the tribe’s funds are frozen or inaccessible.
“I have talked to our banks, and all of our accounts are open,” Crow-Ellison said. “The banks are doing business as usual and honoring our checks.”
The factory makes about 15,500 cartons of cigarettes daily. The cost of a carton is $13, Crow-Ellison said.
Most of the employees are expecting to pick up their regular paychecks today, the women said.
“The tribe is seeking a restraining order and damages against the individuals responsible for the alleged illegal actions,” Spicer said, referring to frozen accounts.
Spicer said the problem involves a few disgruntled members whose candidates recently lost a tribal election by a 2-to-1 margin and now are seeking to grab power by any means.
“This is only the latest in a series of actions by the losing side in our recent elections to disrupt the duly elected government and its operations,” Spicer said. “We go through this every election, and I’m tired of it.”
In the tribe’s June 2 general council and election, Spicer was re-elected to a second term as chief. Several protests were filed regarding the validity of the election.
Also during the June 2 meeting, the election and grievance committees were seated. The new election committee upheld the protests and called for a new election. The old election committee threw out the protests and certified the election, citing Spicer as chief.
According to records in the Court of Indian Offenses in Miami, Judge William Wantland on June 12 issued a temporary restraining order staying the certification of the election. A court date of July 20 was set for hearing arguments.
“We don’t know who the chief is,” Crow-Ellison said.
Birdsong and Crow-Ellison said the Bureau of Indian Affairs will not do business with the tribe and federal funds will not be reinstated until after the July 20 court date.
“That is wrong,” Spicer said. “We are doing business with BIA every day.”
In addition to the tobacco factory closing, several social services — including emergency funds, the tribal tag program, all federal programs and the health-care clinic — were suspended after Spicer locked the gates to the tribe’s Miami office, said Dolly Pewitt, a former tribal council member.
Spicer said all other services, including Grand Lake Casino, were open.


Tribal membership

The Seneca-Cayuga Tribe has about 4,400 members, about half of whom live in Delaware and Ottawa counties in Northeast Oklahoma.

Copyright © 1999-2006 cnhi, inc.


NOTE: Don L this is a general posting not directed towards you.

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#596338 --- 06/27/07 10:00 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
"I don't have anything against anybody." Then you should not be posting such crap as you did about me. We proved that the land deal was illegal. We may not have got any money but it paved the way for us to get land placed in trust. My opinion is that this Cayuga settlement offer is nothing more then a ploy to bring other Tribes to the table. The last governor was doing the same things as this one is. I don't see this offer going any place. Even if the locals pass it, it will never pass in congress without my Tribe being a part of it. Things are still going as planed. It may seem to you that we are back to ground zero, but we now have a s.c. rulling that the way is to have our land placed in trust. Oh by the way I haven't posted as much because I haven't seen much of anything worth my time. So we do agree on one thing. This thread is rather dull.


Welcome back Okla. I didn't expect us to agree on your trust application.

You hardly proved the land deal to be legal. The whole land claim was dismissed, thrown out, trashed ... based on "the actions and inactions of all parties involved over the 200 year period." That's what "laches" means. I know - Judge McCurn would agree with you, in fact he did. But he was ruled to be incorrect.

As for paving the way for trust land applications, the land claim didn't and couldn't do that. The Seneca-Cayuga tribe was granted that benefit in 1934 when they organized under the Indian Reorganization Act. You've ALWAYS had that option.

What you should be pointing out to your attorneys is that the New York Cayuga tribe rejected that act and its associated benefits. In fact it was THAT reason why Clint Halftown was ruled by the BIA to be the leader when two other factions claimed to be the real government last summer, because that tribe never organized as a democracy.

There are other points regarding why neither applications apply here, but we'll get there in due time.

I find it humerous that you're not happy with my Governor, considering your posts of the past. That "may" be three things we agree on. This thread, my Governor and the proposed settlement.

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#596473 --- 06/28/07 08:16 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
I didn't say that I wasn't happy with your governor. Here is what I said "The last governor was doing the same things as this one is." I just don't see that it will work out for him. Yes the land claim was thrown out, but that didn't make what was done legal. Sorry but you are wrong "I know - Judge McCurn would agree with you, in fact he did. But he was ruled to be incorrect." he was not ruled to be incorrect. Remember it was laches that killed the claim. " based on "the actions and inactions of all parties involved over the 200 year period." That's what "laches" means. As for what's going on now, I don't see us doing anything unless it makes it to the feds. "There are other points regarding why neither applications apply here, but we'll get there in due time.
" I still say that federal laws apply to all states.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#596999 --- 06/28/07 09:13 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Dear Okla,

When are we getting our Casino and World class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls? Please Hurry!!!

Fondly,

Lusifer
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#597022 --- 06/28/07 09:53 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Yes the land claim was thrown out, but that didn't make what was done legal. Sorry but you are wrong "I know - Judge McCurn would agree with you, in fact he did. But he was ruled to be incorrect." he was not ruled to be incorrect. Remember it was laches that killed the claim. " based on "the actions and inactions of all parties involved over the 200 year period." That's what "laches" means. As for what's going on now, I don't see us doing anything unless it makes it to the feds. "There are other points regarding why neither applications apply here, but we'll get there in due time.
" I still say that federal laws apply to all states.


Hello Okla:

As to the deal 200 years ago being legal or illegal, I regret that we'll just have to disagree because the appeals courts never ruled on the merits (the actual transactions) of the claim itself.

My statement of Judge McCurn being incorrect, and I apologize for not being more specific, was that he ruled latches as invalid and not applicable. IF that argument had not been brought up, the appeals courts could not have ruled on it - because they can only reconsider what has already been considered. They reversed McCurn's ruling and ruled that it did apply. Therefore, McCurn was incorrect. You could argue that McCurn was correct and the whole appeals court was wrong. But, what can I say?

As for whats going on now, UCE is doing what it can to prevent the proposal from getting to the feds. I don't expect you to thank us, but you're welcome. LOL

Your position on federal laws applying to all states would normally apply. Specificaly refering to trust applications, we disagree again.

But at this point, aside from the fact neither of us has a vote in the matter anyway, the pending proposed settlement circumvents the trust process by granting restricted fee status instead. I think UCE may have influenced enough votes to stop it, but there are no guarantees. IF it makes it to the feds, I sincerely wish you luck in defeating it.

Lawsuits overturning trust applicability to the colony states would revert trust land status, if granted, back to simple fee taxable property. Not so with restricted fee because it would be an act of Congress.

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#597302 --- 06/29/07 09:44 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Lusi:

I know your visions of short deer skin skirts may be skewing your viewpoint. But people that get what they ask for may not be happy with what they get if they don't fill in all the details first. The obvious lack of details in the proposed settlement is nobody has seen a copy and details were presumably to be filled in later. i.e.: short deerskin skirts may not really be what you want when you discover later that it takes three full deer skins to make one. LOL

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#597353 --- 06/29/07 11:22 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Dick to make fun of someones is not in good tast. "short deerskin skirts may not really be what you want when you discover later that it takes three full deer skins to make one. LOL" If I had any respect for you, that post alone would have blown it.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#597357 --- 06/29/07 11:32 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
" Not so with restricted fee because it would be an act of Congress." Congress is waiting for something that all parties are willing to sign off on. And as you know we are not a willing party to this agreement. Have you seen the letter that our Chief sent?
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#597363 --- 06/29/07 11:41 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Dear Okla,

When are we getting our Casino and World class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls? Please Hurry!!!

Fondly,

Lusifer
The way things look at this time there will not be any casino and world class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls or any were close.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#597599 --- 06/29/07 04:05 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Dick to make fun of someones is not in good tast.


You are one to talk.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#597610 --- 06/29/07 05:06 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
The way things look at this time there will not be any casino and world class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls or any were close.


Okla's chief has shut down their cig business.

Looks like they cannot even get along with each other???
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#597685 --- 06/29/07 09:24 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Hmmm, your own skewed vision must have placed a person in the skirt. Was it too realistic to be humerous? My post was in refrence to details, or rather lack of details regarding the trust settlement, directed at Lusifer in a manner that he would relate to. Prior posts of Lusi stated that short deerskin skirts is why he wanted the casino.

Not every post is directed at you amd I realize you have difficulty understanding.

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#597690 --- 06/29/07 09:49 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Have you seen the letter that our Chief sent?

I saw news articles related to it and fully understand a lawsuit would be filed.

Once again, it may not be as easy to block as you think. Your own Oklahoma Senators and Congressman are really the only ones that might stand a chance of blocking it.

There are two standing factors that aren't going to go away. One: Congress has plenary power over tribes and two: the Seneca-Cayuga tribe relinquished all rights to sue the federal government for claims in 1977 when you accepted the last "final" land claim settlement. That's why the only avenue open was to sue the states, counties and individuals in 1980. Even then you were only added to the Cayugas existing lawsuit, mistakenly, by Judge McCurn. Your options are really a lot slimmer than you think.

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#597872 --- 06/30/07 02:12 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...






Details Shmreetails.....Look what we are missing Dick......

Definately missing Dick........
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#597929 --- 06/30/07 08:17 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
MorganHills Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: On a tangent
you are an A hole in the BIGGEST way

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#597948 --- 06/30/07 10:21 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: MorganHills]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Thank you...

That is partly what Lusifer is all about.....

You are starting to really know me....and to know me is to....


Well you know what, those butterflies in your belly when you read my posts....that tingling feeling you get ....
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#597962 --- 07/01/07 12:29 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aren't there other topics to talk about? I believe you would get an even higher frequency of participants if you would quit burning us out with all of the road signs. Cayuga County is a toxic little county. I live in the land claim area also. This county will go nowhere as long as it maintains it's current mentality.

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#598112 --- 07/01/07 12:12 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: ]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Cayugas give settlement deadline: Indian Nation seeks decisions by July 31


By DENISE M. CHAMPAGNE/Finger Lakes Times
Saturday, June 30, 2007 10:21 PM CDT


WATERLOO - The Cayuga Indian Nation is imposing a July 31 deadline on Seneca and Cayuga counties to accept a proposed settlement offer or will consider it rejected.

Its attorney, Daniel French, wrote Wednesday to the counties' attorney, Brian Laudadio of Pittsford, that the Nation is disappointed the two counties deferred decision on the matter when each met Tuesday evening.

“We're giving them a whole another month,” French said Friday. “The Nation, quite frankly, doesn't think the counties are prepared to vote ever. Their representatives don't want to be on record as voting one way or another.”

The matter did not come before the Seneca County Board of Supervisors because it was voted down 3-2 in the Native American Affairs Committee. Chairman of that committee, Ovid Supervisor David Dresser, hopes it can be resurrected, possibly at the July 10 meeting. The issue wasn't on the Cayuga County Legislature's agenda either.

French said the Nation Council has been authorized to sign the agreement, which would allow the Nation to build a casino somewhere in New York in exchange for:
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-- Capping the amount of land it takes off the tax rolls at 10,000 acres (3,333 in Seneca County);

-- Dropping its trust applications;

-- And sharing about $15.3 million a year in casino revenue with the two counties.

“A deal is a deal,” French said. “We negotiated in good faith. They don't seem to have the political will at this time to vote one way or another. They should vote one way or another.”

He said the Nation is “actively looking at two very large tracts” of land in each county, larger than its present holdings of 195 acres in Seneca County and 171.5 in Cayuga. The Nation will file for trust status on new acquisitions to add to its pending applications.

French reiterated that without an agreement, the Nation intends to “proceed as quickly as possible” with its plan to acquire land, place it into trust and further expand its enterprises until as much of the 64,000 acres sought in its 1980 land claim can be regained.

He notes that among “considerable concessions” made by both sides, the Nation is giving the counties the opportunity to be the first municipalities nationwide to share gaming revenue from a facility outside their boundaries, as well as veto power over gaming within their boundaries. He said the offer was not indefinite.

“I don't think threats are going to win the Cayugas any friends in Seneca County,” said County Attorney Steven Getman.

“We knew it was coming,” Dresser said of the deadline. “I hope that this is not misinterpreted by anyone and I hope it does not affect one way or another the actions [of the two county boards].”

He said he thinks there is a possibility to modify the proposal, that the county has heard from residents and he's doing what he can to see that a settlement is reached that will be in the best interests of the parties.

The full Native American Affairs Committee did note vote on the measure. A 2-2 split was broken because member Sean Anglim's absence was counted as a no. Dresser said a motion can be made to reconsider the issue.

He said Seneca Falls at-large Supervisor Chuck Lafler made an extremely important point that a vote of two people in committee should not keep a matter of this importance from coming before the full board.

Dresser said he hopes the supervisors who voted against it - Peter Same and Robert Shipley, Seneca Falls and Waterloo at-large, respectively - will agree to move the matter to the full board “so that a vote of every member can be recorded.”

Laudadio presented the proposal May 22 to each county's full board; they were asked to respond by June 26, which French said now with the July 31 deadline gives each county “two full months” to consider the matter. He said neither has asked for more information or clarification.

“At some point, it has to be voted on or not,” he said.

Edward Barto of Fayette, chairman of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors, said it's just another deadline to create pressure on the counties.

“Since they gave us a deadline, I think now is the time, more than ever, that (Rep. Michael Arcuri, D-24 of Utica) step up to the plate and help out the counties so they can come to a settlement on this issue,” Barto said.

dchampagne@fltimes.com
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#598118 --- 07/01/07 12:21 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone


... which would allow the Nation to build a casino somewhere in New York in exchange for:




-- Capping the amount of land it takes off the tax rolls at 10,000 acres (3,333 in Seneca County);

-- Dropping its trust applications;

-- And sharing about $15.3 million a year in casino revenue with the two counties.





-------------------------------


NO DEAL!!!!!

Is the tribe worried that the land will not go to trust?


What is the rush to sign this deal by July 31????



NO DEAL!!!!!
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#598169 --- 07/01/07 06:00 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: bluezone]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...







.............DEAL!!
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#598297 --- 07/02/07 05:47 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Here is a prime example of wheeling and dealing.

Graft and corruption at work?

MMMmmmm.


Officials questioned Seneca’s practices
Casino polices OK’ddespite objections
By Jerry Zremski - NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF
Updated: 07/01/07 6:57 AM


WASHINGTON — Federal Indian gaming experts drafted letters rejecting the Seneca Nation’s casino agreement with New York in 2002 and raised serious concerns about the tribe’s Buffalo land purchases in 2005, only to be overruled by their superiors in both instances.

Newly revealed documents, which surfaced in the lawsuit that Buffalo casino opponents have filed to try to stop a casino in downtown Buffalo, show the depth of concern within the federal government about projects that nonetheless went forward.

The 2002 letters said the Seneca deal should be rejected because it includes provisions “detrimental to the interests of Indian tribes.” But a competing letter, co-written by a political appointee who later went to work for the Senecas’ lobbying firm, advocated the deal’s approval.

Similarly, a 2005 e-mail from the head of the federal Office of Indian Gaming Management questions whether the Senecas’ Buffalo land purchase circumvents federal law, but the deal was allowed to go forward days later.

Casino critics said the documents show that political influence trumped legal considerations in the approval of both the Senecas’ 2002 casino deal with the state and their 2005 Buffalo land purchase.

The 2002 documents echo what Kendra Winkelstein, a lawyer for local Indian nations opposed to the deal, heard from federal Indian gambling experts at the time.

“The impression they gave us was that they were very concerned — but good luck trying to stop a speeding train,” said Winkelstein, now also among the lawyers fighting the Buffalo casino.

Several federal Indian gambling experts, however, appeared to try to do just that.

In an undated memo, George Skibine, director of the Office of Indian Gaming Mana gement, listed 13 concerns with the 2002 agreement.

Two of those concerns dominated a draft letter written by Indian Gaming staffer Paula Hart and signed by Nancy Pierskalla, acting assistant secretary of Indian Affairs at the Department of the Interior.

The draft letter to the Senecas said the Interior Department was rejecting the casino deal in part because it limited the ability of two other Western New York tribes, the Tonawanda Senecas and the Tuscaroras, to start off-reservation casinos.

“We do not believe that it should be the policy of the [Interior] Department to approve any compact that contains any provisions that are detrimental to the interests of Indian tribes that are not parties to the compact,” said the letter, which was dated Oct. 22, 2002.

Pierskalla also criticized the Senecas’ plan to build housing near their casinos, saying that was not directly related to gambling and thus impermissible under the federal law that regulates Indian gambling.

At the top of that letter, however, there is a note that says the top lawyer at the Interior Department “has serious doubts that the arguments in this draft . . . are legally defensible. See ‘yes’ draft discussion of same topics.”

The “yes” draft was written a day earlier by Interior lawyer Edith R. Blackwell and Michael G. Rossetti, then counselor to Interior Secretary Gale Norton.

Noting that the casino deal allows the Tonawanda Senecas and the Tuscaroras to open casinos on their reservations but not elsewhere, the unsigned letter says: “We have reviewed whether this provision meets our trust obligation to Indians, and we conclude that it does.”

In the end, Norton did not sign either letter. Instead, on Oct. 24, 2002, she let the deal’s review period end without comment, meaning the casino deal took effect automatically.

At the time, Wayne R. Smith, who was deputy assistant secretary of Indian affairs at the Department of the Interior until June 2002, said Rossetti led the fight for the casino’s approval. Rossetti, a Buffalo native and Republican political appointee with Albany connections, joined Akin Gump, then the Senecas’ lobbying firm, in 2004.

Rossetti, Skibine and the other major players in the 2002 Interior Department debate did not return phone calls seeking comment. The Seneca Gaming Corp. declined to comment.

The internal divisions illustrated in those letters recurred in 2005, when the Senecas sought approval for the purchase of the Buffalo casino site.

“I have concerns about this application,” Skibine wrote in a Nov. 28, 2005, e-mail to Interior Department lawyers.

In particular, he questioned the complex land transactions surrounding the Senecas’ Buffalo land deal.

The tribe’s gambling corporation bought the nine-acre site for $4.6 million and then turned around and sold it to the tribe for $4.

That $4 came out of the $30 million the Senecas got under the Seneca Nation Settlement Act for land purchases.

After recounting the land transactions, Skibine asked: “The question is: Is the Nation circumventing the intent of the Seneca Settlement Act?”

Despite that question, the Interior Department quickly approved the land purchase.

“George Skibine suddenly realizes there could be a fundamental, organic problem here — and yet the deal goes through four days later,” said Joseph M. Finnerty, the lead lawyer in the anti-casino lawsuit.

Both the 2002 letters and the 2005 e-mail show deep divisions between the career professionals who supervise Indian gambling matters and the political appointees who have control over them, Finnerty said.

“It’s a symptom of what appears to be a rabid infection at the Department of the Interior, which has transmitted the infection to Buffalo,” Finnerty said.

jzremski@buffnews.com.

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#598313 --- 07/02/07 06:54 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Okla: Oops, possible delay in bldg the new casino?

Always something isn't there?




Ordinance may be stumbling block for proposed casino

— By Sheila Stogsdill
news@joplinglobe.com
GROVE, Okla. — Could a 67-year-old Grove ordinance keep a $60 million casino outside the city limits?
City Ordinance 9-202, dated Feb. 29, 1940, states:
“Any owner, manager, or person operating the pool hall, billiard hall or domino parlor shall not permit any intoxicating liquor, including beer, to be brought into or drunk on the premises, and shall not permit any gambling in any form to be carried on within the premises.”
A violation could result in the loss of a business license.
“I wouldn’t know why the ordinance wouldn’t be recognized,” said Gary Bishop, mayor of Grove, who believes the ordinance should be interpreted to prohibit gambling.
Bishop has publicly opposed plans by the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe to build a 100,000-square-foot casino inside the city limits, saying a casino could have a negative impact on Grove.
“This is the first I have heard about it (the ordinance),” Paul Spicer, Seneca-Cayuga chief, said Friday. “My first reaction is to say state and city laws don’t apply to Indian land, but I have to talk to a lawyer.”
The tribe has said the casino would employ about 450 people and have about 1,000 gambling machines. Plans also include a five-story hotel with 125 rooms and three restaurants, and a convention center to be built later.
The tribe spent more than $1 million to purchase the 33-acre tract near Sailboat Bridge. It plans to move Grand Lake Casino from its current location on Oklahoma Highway 10, just outside Grove.
Trust land?
“If the land is trust land, our city ordinance can’t be enforced,” said Debbie Mavity, acting city manager. “The question to be answered is: Is the land in trust?”
Mavity asked City Attorney Ron Cates to research the issue and have some answers before the July 17 City Council meeting. Cates was unavailable for comment Friday.
According to the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988, the tribe must put the land in a federal trust. The procedure must be approved by the U.S. Department of the Interior, and the tribe must have a signed contract with the governor.
The Seneca-Cayuga tribe has said publicly that it does not plan to go through the land-to-trust procedure but is relying instead on claims that the land is within the tribe’s historical jurisdiction.
“In order to operate a casino under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, it must fit the definition of Indian land as defined by the act,” said Shawn Pensoneau, spokesman for the National Indian Gaming Commission.
The land may be part of the tribe’s former reservations, but it still has to fit the definition of Indian land as set forth in the federal law, he said. The act does not specially mention historical jurisdiction as a waiver for the land-to-trust procedure, he said.
“The land must be held in trust to put a casino in,” Pensoneau said.
“It’s good to know our early Grove fathers knew gambling wasn’t the right atmosphere for our community,” said Darrell Mastin, a Grove businessman.
“I don’t think our city leaders can go against their own ordinance,” said Chris Ramsey, an attorney. “They took an oath to uphold the ordinances.”
Mastin and Ramsey are two of the organizers of No Casino In Grove, a grass-roots organization that is trying to stop the building of a casino within the city limits.


Governor watching

Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry is aware of the issues surrounding the proposed Seneca-Cayuga casino in Grove and is examining the laws, said Thomas Larson, deputy press secretary for the governor.

Copyright © 1999-2006 cnhi, inc.


Edited by grinch (07/02/07 06:57 AM)

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#598318 --- 07/02/07 07:09 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sworldt


The only thing you and i agree on is the Cayuga's agreement is not a good one and should not be allowed.



And I thought that you said that any casino would be good?

Or do you mean just a casino that your tribe runs would be good? (for you)
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#598384 --- 07/02/07 09:26 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: bluezone]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't believe that the prophet Handsome Lake had envisioned such a joke. If this was Westchester County, resolutions would have been made behind closed doors a long time ago.

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#598553 --- 07/02/07 02:32 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: grinch]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
"The Seneca-Cayuga tribe has said publicly that it does not plan to go through the land-to-trust procedure but is relying instead on claims that the land is within the tribe’s historical jurisdiction."

LOL - WOW - Sherrill nixed that in the bud in 2005 resulting in both Cayuga casinos being closed. And the Seneca-Cayuga Chief still doesn't get it? Oh, he gets it or they wouldn't have applied for trust here right after Sherrill won. Maybe he was hoping that Oklahoma hadn't heard yet.

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#598571 --- 07/02/07 03:04 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well then why don't you and he smoke your pipe together so that we can all live in harmony?

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#598624 --- 07/02/07 04:14 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: ]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
I did better than that. I notified the Grove City Council about the Sherrill decision by SCOTUS. Now the Seneca-Cayuga can all live peacefully with equality under the law in Oklahoma.

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#598634 --- 07/02/07 04:29 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
"In its main features the Declaration of Independence is a spiritual document. It is a declaration not of material but spiritual conceptions. Equality, liberty, popular sovereignty, the rights of man-these are not elements which we can see and touch. They are ideals. They have their source and their roots in religious convictions. They belong to the unseen world. Unless the faith of the American people in these religious convictions is to endure, the principles of our Declaration will perish. We cannot continue to enjoy the result if we neglect and abandon the cause. If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just power from the consent of the governed, that is final. No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions. If anyone wishes to deny their truth and their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction cannot lay claim to progress." -Calvin Coolidge

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#598635 --- 07/02/07 04:42 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am aware of the Declaration. My fifth generation grandfather signed it. Thanks

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#599024 --- 07/03/07 01:42 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: ]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Okla are you having trouble getting that casino going in Auburn?

Would you like the Cayugas to start one for you in Auburn?
I bet sworldt would like a cayuga casino in auburn...

LOL


_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#599231 --- 07/03/07 11:04 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: bluezone]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
hello BZ. I see your still shoveling the same old Bull S. Have you missed me? No even though i am for economic development and cooperative agreements. This is one that would put the community in the middle of a legal battle between the two tribes.

Originally Posted By: bluezone
Okla are you having trouble getting that casino going in Auburn?

Would you like the Cayugas to start one for you in Auburn?
I bet sworldt would like a cayuga casino in auburn...

LOL


_________________________

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#599260 --- 07/04/07 05:52 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: sworldt]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sworldt
No even though i am for economic development and cooperative agreements. This is one that would put the community in the middle of a legal battle between the two tribes.


What legal battle would that be?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#600470 --- 07/06/07 04:05 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: bluezone]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Tribal agreements? Not worth the paper they are printed on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thruway Authority Shoots Down $2M Request
By SHARON TURANO


New York State Thruway Authorities will not pay the Seneca Nation of Indians a $2 million bill the nation issued for Thruway use of nation land in the Cattaraugus Territory.

A letter signed by Michael R. Fleischer, New York State Thruway Authority, New York State Canal Corporation executive director, said the state has provided adequate compensation for the use of the land and no more payment will be given to the Indian nation.

‘‘The Authority has paid in full for the value of a permanent easement for Thruway purposes across Seneca territory,’’ said a letter written by Thruway officials. ‘‘Accordingly, the Seneca Nation has already been fully compensated for this use. Therefore, the authority will not be making additional payments as requested in your letter.’’

The payment that was made, according to authority spokesperson Betsy Graham, refers to $75,000 paid in to the nation in 1954. The payment was made when an agreement between the state and the Seneca Nation of Indians authorized the Thruway right of way across 300 acres of the Cattaraugus reservation.

On April 14, however, the Tribal Council rescinded the 53-year-old agreement, effectively turning the state and a three-mile stretch of thoroughfare into trespassers on Seneca land.

The Indian nation wants to negotiate with the state for compensation — perhaps a yearly payment — for use of the land a few miles from the Lake Erie shore. The nation is also looking at other roads and rights of way for which they may have been shortchanged.

In rescinding the Thruway right of way, the Tribal Council said the U.S. government never gave the required approvals. Tribal leaders cited a 1999 opinion by U.S. District Magistrate Carol Heckman which said that the Secretary of the Interior had not complied with laws governing rights of way on Indian lands.

The decision was part of a Seneca land claim case involving Grand Island, north of Buffalo, which the Senecas lost.

In May, the council voted to charge $1 per car for vehicles passing through its land on which portions of the Thruway sit. A $2 million bill for April, May and June use of nation land was sent to the Thruway Authority.

Seneca Nation President Maurice A. John and state Gov. Eliot Spitzer met in May — the first meeting between the two new leaders. Their governments have been at odds regarding expected state attempts to collect state sales tax on reservation sales to non-Indians.

Spitzer included $200 million in revenue from the tax in the state budget, Senecas have maintained state tax collections on their reservations is a violation of federal treaties they have with the U.S. government.

After the rescinding the 1954 agreement, state Assemblyman Sam Hoyt said the Thruway issue was the Senecas way of balancing the state’s attempt to collect tobacco tax.

‘‘It’s an attempt by the Seneca Nation to try to leverage the Thruway issue to get a more favorable outcome with regard to their negotiations with Gov. Spitzer on the tobacco tax issue,’’ he said. ‘‘I don’t fault them. In fact, it’s pretty creative.’’

Due to the tax issue, Seneca officials reported reviewing all state/Seneca agreements. Upon such review, they reported the U.S. Government never gave proper approval of a 1954 agreement allowing the state Thruway to pass through three miles of the Cattaraugus Territory.

The Tribal Council rescinded the agreement, calling the continued use of the Thruway without nation permission ‘‘an on-going act of trespass.’’

Seneca spokespeople said the nation’s leaders are on vacation and could not be reached for comment Thursday. Nation officials have discussed the possibility of tollbooths being erected for the land’s use. The thruway runs through about 300 acres of nation land.


Section: News Date Posted: 7/6/2007

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#600474 --- 07/06/07 04:13 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Ad blitz targets Spitzer

Group wants public to urge him to collect on Indian sales

Friday, July 06, 2007By Delen Goldberg Staff writer

The state Association of Convenience Stores is urging Gov. Eliot Spitzer to begin collecting sales tax on cigarettes and gasoline sold by American Indian tribes to non-Indians - and it wants your help.

A 60-second commercial, paid for by the association, hit the local TV airwaves Thursday, asking viewers to e-mail Spitzer and encourage him to collect the taxes.

"Gov. Spitzer pledged on Day One, everything would change," said James Calvin, the convenience store association's president. "But on the tax collection issue, nothing has. Respectfully, our members think six months has been long enough to wait for Day One to arrive."

Earlier this year, Spitzer proposed that the state split cigarette tax money with Indian tribes. That has yet to happen.

Christine Pritchard, a Spitzer spokeswoman, said officials with the governor's office have talked about tax sharing with members of several Indian nations and will continue discussions.

On March 1, 2006, the state was supposed to start taxing tobacco sold to non-Indians at Indian-owned sites, but the law has not been enforced.

The Post-Standard and others have estimated the state loses more than $400 million in tax revenue each year by failing to collect on Indian sales.

Indian nations have maintained their treaties don't allow the state to enforce its civil laws on their tribal lands, although the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1994 that New York had the right to collect the taxes.

"The issue is really between the convenience stores and the governor," said Mark Emery, spokesman for the Oneida Indian Nation.

Calls to members of the Onondaga Nation were not returned Thursday.

The convenience store association's commercial will run for three weeks on Time Warner Cable's News 10 Now. It's also airing in Buffalo and Albany. The association paid about $27,000 for the
ads, Calvin said.

"I think it will be effective in achieving our primary goal: To express our frustration," Calvin said. "Whether it's successful in achieving our other primary goal compelling Gov. Spitzer to begin enforcing the law remains to be seen. It depends on residents and taxpayers and whether they go to that Web site.

"We hope that they will," Calvin continued. "It's not just convenience stores that have a stake in this. It's every single taxpayer, whether you smoke or not. If your neighbor is traveling to Indian reservations to buy cigarettes, it means tax revenue that would have been collected on that sale needs to come from somewhere else. It impacts all of us."

Delen Goldberg can be reached at dgoldberg@syracuse.com or 470-2274.

--------------------------------------------------------

Tell all the store owners to not pay their sales taxes like the tribes refuse to do. That should get Spitzers attention. If the state goes after the store owners for the unpaid sales taxes then sue the state for discrimination.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#600475 --- 07/06/07 04:19 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: grinch


The Indian nation wants to negotiate with the state for compensation — perhaps a yearly payment — for use of the land a few miles from the Lake Erie shore. The nation is also looking at other roads and rights of way for which they may have been shortchanged.


Does the state of NY charge the tribe when their members go off the rez and use NY land?




.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#600477 --- 07/06/07 04:20 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: sworldt
No even though i am for economic development and cooperative agreements. This is one that would put the community in the middle of a legal battle between the two tribes.


What legal battle would that be?


sworldt - hard question for you to answer?



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#600575 --- 07/07/07 07:42 AM Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Casino deal deadline set

Seneca County lawmaker David Dresser, chairman of his county's Native American Affairs committee, is pushing both counties to vote simultaneously July 24.

"All the legislators should step up to the plate and vote on it," said Dresser, who favors the proposed deal.

© 2007 Syracuse Online, LLC.
Saturday, July 07, 2007
By Scott Rapp
Staff writer

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#600632 --- 07/07/07 12:37 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: newsman38]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
NYACS TV commercial at
http://www.nyacs.org/TVad7-07.htm

Note - you have to push the triangle to play the ad - push it a second time if it doesn't start.


Edited by Rich_Tallcot (07/07/07 12:39 PM)

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#600684 --- 07/07/07 04:56 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: bluezone]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: sworldt
No even though i am for economic development and cooperative agreements. This is one that would put the community in the middle of a legal battle between the two tribes.


What legal battle would that be?


sworldt - hard question for you to answer?

.



BZ: I didn't answer you because, common sense does.A little common sense will tell you that IF the counties side with one tribe over the other the tribe being pushed out will give every legal challenge.Hence catching the two counties in the middle.
If there is to be ANY agreement that affects both tribes than both tribes should be at the table along with the state,and county leaders.
_________________________

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#600930 --- 07/08/07 01:22 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: sworldt]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sworldt



BZ: I didn't answer you because, common sense does.A little common sense will tell you that IF the counties side with one tribe over the other the tribe being pushed out will give every legal challenge.Hence catching the two counties in the middle.
If there is to be ANY agreement that affects both tribes than both tribes should be at the table along with the state,and county leaders.




Why would another tribe disagree about your tribe building a museum?

As Okla has stated before that the only reason your(his) tribe wants the land is to build a museum.

Sworldt is all for economic development but ONLY if his tribe is the only benefactor.---interesting????????

And if the cayuga tribe were to build a casino in Auburn then you would be against it even though you have stated repeatedly that a casino would be an economic benefit (your words).----interesting?????

looks like the pot calling the kettle black...........



.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#600935 --- 07/08/07 01:36 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: newsman38]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: newsman38
Casino deal deadline set

Seneca County lawmaker David Dresser, chairman of his county's Native American Affairs committee, is pushing both counties to vote simultaneously July 24.

"All the legislators should step up to the plate and vote on it," said Dresser, who favors the proposed deal.

© 2007 Syracuse Online, LLC.
Saturday, July 07, 2007
By Scott Rapp
Staff writer


Vote NO...............this is a lose lose for taxpayers.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#600992 --- 07/08/07 04:24 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
What this proposal does is settle a non exisistent land claim, which is one way for a tribe to secure a casino. It circumvents the land into trust process that is going to be a rocky road at best. To accomplish this end around scheme requires local cooperation and approval and one way to get that is to bribe(oops) offer a cut of the phantom profits to the local communities to garner that support.

It is just another scam, not worth the paper it is written on. It will not fly for numerous reasons, and if by chance it ever did will be unenforceable. To proof that out, look to the history of these compacts, treaties here and elsewhere.


The offer is from a faction whose leadership is in dispute. It attempts to eliminate competition from another faction who threatens law suits. It ignores the fact the Cayuga Tribe, the real tribe is located in Canada and not a party to the original land claim, or the numerous schemes, err proposals, to settle what the court has already settled. If memory serves me correctly a faction of this tribe sold the reservation to NYS some 200 years ago and a protest was lodged by the true Cayugas at that time negating that scheme. I wonder if NYS ever got back what they paid the "wrong group" then? This proposal is repeating history and making the same mistakes.

What about the other tribes of the Iroquois, especially the Oneida who will object to this compact, or the Senecas who are fighting NY over collection of sales taxes. Does anyone really believe they will just quietly accept this proposal giving up a good deal of indian sovereignty with out lodging objections?

And if the casino never materalizes or is not profitable, where will this faction get the money they promise to NYS or to the Counties? Some say NYS is guaranteeing the payment to the counties, yeah right that is until the administration changes. And what about sales taxes, why should any group be allowed to keep half of the sales taxes collected? Why not offer this same deal to the local merchant?


Edited by grinch (07/08/07 04:48 PM)

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#601002 --- 07/08/07 05:06 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Mr Talcott or Mr Warren: Is there any or has there ever been any land in New York State held in trust by the Federal Goverment for Indian Tribes?

In a casual conversation with a county official I mentioned my belief there never had been trust land in NYS and was told that was not true. This source mentioned the Mohawk and the Senecas as having federal trust lands.

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#601006 --- 07/08/07 05:47 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
I found an article concerning the Mohawk Reservation written by Dr Veronica E Velarde Tiller and here are a few excerpts. They seem to bear out the fact the Federal Government does not have land in trust in NYS for the Mohawk. Dr Tiller is a member of the Apache nation.

http://www.cradleboard.org/sites/akwesasn.html Read the entire article where the following excerpts were found:


"Because the State of New York never ceded any land to the federal government following the ratification of the tribe's constitution, the Mohawk Reservation has never been federal territory. New York State granted its portion of the land to the tribe in 1796 under a treaty signed with the Seven Nations Confederacy, to which the St. Regis Mohawk belonged."


"During the Revolutionary War, while most of the Seven Nations Confederacy supported the British, the St. Regis Mohawk were among the minority who supported the Americans. In 1796 the land claim of the Seven Nations was signed whereby New York State ceded over six square miles and some additional collateral land in return for a promise by the Indians to abandon any further land claims in the state. The state had agreed to pay annuities to the tribe under negotiated treaties; in the mid 1830s it modified the practice by beginning to make payments only to the New York side of the reservation. In the 1930s, the federal government proposed the Indian Reorganization Act, which the St. Regis Mohawk formally rejected in 1935. In 1953 the federal government moved to terminate the reservation, an attempt which the St. Regis successfully overturned."

All of the above information is from "Tiller's Guide to Indian Country"
by Veronica E. Velarde Tiller.
BowArrow Publishing Company Albuquerque NM USA.
SSBN 1-885931-01-8 Copyright 1996.
Used by permission.
http://www.tillerresearch.com/

About Tiller Research...


Name
Tiller Research was founded in 1980 by Dr. Veronica Tiller and is located in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The original focus of the organization was to provide thoroughly researched and detailed information about modern-day Native American issues to laymen as well as professionals.

As widely diverse as the 562 tribes are, there are still many fundamental issues that are similar for all tribes across the country. The basic information formed the foundation of what was to become the Tiller's Guide to Indian Country. After the considerable effort of organizing, documenting, and personally interviewing hundreds of tribal employees, personnel, and members across the United States, Tiller's Guide was published in 1996 by BowArrow Publishing. BowArrow Publishing was founded in 1995 and is the publishing arm of Tiller Research.

Upon publication, there was immediate acceptance of the Guide throughout academic and government agency circles as an authoritative resource of information about modern-day Native American tribes. This recognition continues with the release of the updated and expanded 2006 edition and includes significant endorsements from the library community and private enterprise.



About the Author...


A member of the Jicarilla Apache Nation of New Mexico, Dr. Veronica E. Velarde Tiller is firmly established as a noted historian and is recognized internationally as a contemporary authority on modern-day life of Native American tribes.

As owner and CEO of Tiller Research Incorporated, she has served as a research consultant for tribes and tribal organizations both in the United States and Canada and has written several books and articles about Native American issues.







Edited by grinch (07/08/07 05:58 PM)

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#601013 --- 07/08/07 06:01 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Dan, do you have knowledge of this person or her Guide to Indian Country? If so, what does it say about the Cayuga and the Seneca Cayuga Tribe?

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#601016 --- 07/08/07 06:09 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
The following was a letter to the editor in a local paper-


Land claim proposal is not legal

To the editor:

Is the proposed Cayuga settlement illegal?

Let's review history and why I would say yes.
The restrictive-fee status would give legal sovereign title to the tribe. This is New York state sovereign title. This is worse than a title held by a government trust. Let's start at the beginning around 1754 and the French and Indian War. All six nations gave the title of all their land to the British, in exchange for their help in fighting the French.

In 1783, at the Treaty of Paris, the British gave the former Iroquis title exclusively to New York state, which still has that land title today. (The Six Nations have only a possessive title.)

At the 1926 Internaitonal Tribunal, we held that New York has exclusive rights to make a contract with the Iroquis and that it was of no concern of the federal government. The Supreme Court, in the Cayuga case, also stated that the federal government had no interest in the Cayuga case.

When it is New York title that is being surrendered, and both the Supreme Court and the 1926 Tribunal stated it is no concern of the federal government, why is the U.S. involved?

Why should New York give up its sovereign land rights, which it has held for over 200 years and which the Cayugas had completely abondoned in 1800.

Powers not delegated by the Constitution are reserved for the state, which forbids the government from diminishing the state's sovereignty for any reason.

So, I content the present proposed settlement is illegal.

Federal Indian law only allows for land to be given to the tribe if the tribe drops a pending land claim in exchange for such a setlement. (The Cayugas have no land claim to exchange.)

I believe the feds cannot put the land into trust for the Cayuga. It would be illegal.

Harry Pettingill jr.
Seneca Falls
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#601018 --- 07/08/07 06:31 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Thanks. A letter is a letter, much as a post is a post. I am seeking some authoritive information that confirms Mr Pettingill's information. I believe what he said in the letter, but would like to see the source reference to confirm his information relative to land into trust. I have read the 1926 Tribunal of Paris resolution and I am aware of how NYS acquired the land.

It would appear that some if not all of the county officials are relying on others for their information and they or I may be mistaken about trust lands for tribes in NYS. If there is none that must be proven before they will accept it as fact. If this proposal is accepted it may set a precedent that may not be in the best interests of anyone but the tribes.

I seem to recall a letter from the BIA being received by someone, either the tribe or the State saying there never had been federal trust land in NYS for tribes. Anyone recall that?

The post I just made from Dr Tiller said the Mohawk formerly rejected the 1934 Indian Reor Act and have no federal trust lands. Mr Talcott has said the Cayuga did the same, if so, it would seem the BIA has no authority to take NYS sovereign land into trust for the Cayuga nation.

It would not hurt to get a second opinion concerning land into trust for tribal nations and that is why I support the suggestion by Mr Ricci, the county should consider that before accepting this proposal.


Edited by grinch (07/08/07 06:42 PM)

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#601023 --- 07/08/07 06:42 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
To date there are no "trust land" in New York. There are currently pending trust applications but to date no land in New York is held in trust for an Indian nation or tribe.

In the United States' motion to dismiss my action (Warren v. United States) they state in their memorandum of law "The title of restricted fee land is held by the Indian tribe with specific federally-imposed restrictions on its use and/or disposition. See 25 U.S.C. § 177. In the original thirteen States, Indian lands are typically held in restricted fee, not trust. See City of Sherrill, N.Y. v. Oneida Indian Nation of New York, 544 U.S. 197 (2005)." ( page 3 n. 2 of http://www.upstate-citizens.org/USDC-USA-MOL-Motion_to_Dismiss.pdf )

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#601028 --- 07/08/07 06:52 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: dwarren]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
As I am not an attorney I am unsure of what that motion means.

If I am viewing this proposal correctly, they want the two counties to agree to allow them to place 10000 acres into restricted fee land rather than into trust. That negates the land into trust applications and makes it easier for them to secure land they will declare as sovereign territory.

That leads one to believe the BIA is reluctant to grant trust status to the various applications. The threat the BIA will grant trust status to their land purchases is being cited by some to coerce the towns and counties into acceptance of the current proposal. That would set a precedent that can be used by other tribes.


Edited by grinch (07/08/07 06:54 PM)

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#601030 --- 07/08/07 07:09 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
Here you go right from the State of New York itself: "Not surprisingly, no Indian land in New York has ever been held in trust status for the Oneidas or any other Indian group." (Page 3 last sentence of first paragraph of http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/legal_protection_pdf/oingrp3memo.pdf )

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#601055 --- 07/08/07 09:31 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: grinch
Mr Talcott or Mr Warren: Is there any or has there ever been any land in New York State held in trust by the Federal Goverment for Indian Tribes?

In a casual conversation with a county official I mentioned my belief there never had been trust land in NYS and was told that was not true. This source mentioned the Mohawk and the Senecas as having federal trust lands.


Dan answered with the documentation. I'll just add here that, the way I was told - the BIA granted trust status for the lands the Seneca applied for regarding a casino, BUT, it was never followed through on. Following the Sherrill ruling, Jim Cason switched these to restricted fee - which is all they can get in NYS.

Trust status does not apply and the ONLY way they can create a reservation here is if we GIVE it to them.

Trust lands are not applicable to New York because of preemtion rights and, therefore, no reservation can be forced upon us by the federal government. Restricted fee may also not apply, but being an Act of Congress, might not revert back to taxable fee simple status should anti-trust lawsuits prevail.

Furthermore, the same United States Supreme Court that ruled in favor of Sherrill has not changed and their is no reason to believe reasonings would change relating to trust applications that would create the same problems as in Sherrill, to a state in which they do not apply, to a tribe that rejected the Indian Reorganization Act and all its benefits - including trust application benefits, to a tribe that has a reservation in Cattaraugus County.

The main thing this proposal does is create a 10,000 acre reservation and eliminate any challenge to its creation.

We should
* expect the BIA to decide in favor of some trust land.
* plan on challenging that ruling, which would prevent it from becoming designated so while in court.
* again demand our federal representatives to represent "us" and stop playing politics.
* and reject this proposal.

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#601363 --- 07/09/07 03:20 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Thanks to both of you.

It appears that land now held by the Mohawk, the Seneca and other tribes is being held as restricted fee land, is that correct?

Still a bit puzzled about what to expect.

If they cannot have trust lands in NYS how can the BIA legally grant trust status to some land? Why not just go for restricted fee land and avoid a court test?

That seems to be an empty threat and I would expect any such ruling to be challenged in court. The response of NYS to the proposal of the Oneida for land into trust appears to have valid arguments which will prevent that from happening. It would seem those same arguments would pertain to the Cayuga and the Seneca Cayuga applications for trust status on their holdings.

So that brings up restricted fee land. Does the BIA have authority to place the land into that category? I tend to believe they would need local and state approval before that can be accomplished and is the reason the Cayuga are offering money to the State and to the Counties.

The Cayuga proposal to provide money to the State of NY is to secure their approval. Of course, some greedy politicians are or will back this proposal. That greed is also evident on the local scene as some of our local pols are saying it is a good thing.

Good thing for who?


Edited by grinch (07/09/07 03:36 PM)

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#601413 --- 07/09/07 05:51 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: bluezone]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: sworldt



BZ: I didn't answer you because, common sense does.A little common sense will tell you that IF the counties side with one tribe over the other the tribe being pushed out will give every legal challenge.Hence catching the two counties in the middle.
If there is to be ANY agreement that affects both tribes than both tribes should be at the table along with the state,and county leaders.




Why would another tribe disagree about your tribe building a museum?

As Okla has stated before that the only reason your(his) tribe wants the land is to build a museum.

Sworldt is all for economic development but ONLY if his tribe is the only benefactor.---interesting????????

And if the cayuga tribe were to build a casino in Auburn then you would be against it even though you have stated repeatedly that a casino would be an economic benefit (your words).----interesting?????

looks like the pot calling the kettle black...........



.



How many times do i have to say this I"M NOT A TRIBAL MEMBER of ANY tribe. HELLO ANYONE HOME. And no i have no vested interest either way it may go.Sorry i just live on Columbus St. in Auburn.
_________________________

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#601466 --- 07/09/07 08:45 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer [Re: sworldt]
RJFDdriver Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 125
Loc: USA
There is only one reason whay the Cayuga Nation wants this deal to go through. That is to obtain a class III casino near New York City. I say we keep them from getting that casino by voting it down. It will hurt them in the pocketbook, because they would have to go for trust land here and we all know that a casino here would not be as profitable as near New York City. Let them try to put land into trust here, let them build a casino or class II gaming facility here. It will not survive with all the class III competition that is surrounding them. (three casinos in Buffalo area and Turning Stone)

Turn down this deal!!

They will come back to the negotiating table and if the state plays hard ball this time, a better deal can be gotten.

I propose the state do this:

1. The Cayugas geta class III casino in the Catskills

in return the Cayugas do the following:

1. Stop purchasing land in cayuga and seneca Counties
2. Stop appling for trust lands or restricted fee land in Cayuga and seneca Counties.
3. Collect sales tax at their current establishments and forward the appropriate amount of taxes to the various taxing entities.
4. If they want a presents in cayuga and seneca Counties, place a meuseum or place of worship on one of the parcels currently owned by them and have it tax exempt similar to our churches.
5. Live amoung us like we do

There should be no reason for them to object to thia if they really want a casino down state. New York State hold the key and needs to play hard ball with it.

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#601479 --- 07/09/07 09:25 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
The only way the Senecas were able to place the land they acquired into restricted fee status was it was Congressionally granted to them in the Seneca Nation Settlement Act not the Indian Reorganization Act. That is why the Cayugas are pushing for a settlement, they are unsure whether or not any of the land they acquired on the open market can be placed into trust. Therefore they are looking for a settlement of their land claim in order to obtain two things: 1) a Congressionally sactioned way to obtain land in trust or restricted fee status and; 2) to qualify for an exception to the prohibition on gambling on land acquired after October 17, 1988 under IGRA (settlement of a land claim exception).

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#601575 --- 07/10/07 06:27 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: dwarren]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Dan that is pretty much the way I see it. The Cayuga land claim is dead, this proposal is a way to revive that claim and if accepted provides a "settlement" that would satisfy the clause pertaining to land claim exceptions and allow them to open a class 3 casino. As I have previously stated the money offered to the state and the counties serves to sweeten the pot and buy off the political entities that might object.

RFFdrivr. If a deal is necessary your suggestions have merit, however I am as stubborn as the Cayuga. Why deal at all? There is no land claim. If they apply for trust status fight that in court as land into trust for tribal groups has never been allowed in NYS. I believe the courts will agree, if not then work out a deal. That leaves restricted fee status for land purchases and that requires congressional action. In my opinion federal and state representatives should take note of how many voters exist in groups opposed to Indian sovereignty.

The USA should not be for sale. Once the wall is breached we have lost anyway. Regardless of how much money is promised to Seneca and Cayuga Counties we will have given up sovereign NYS land. Rather than dismantle the country from within consider selling Texas, New Mexico and California to the Mexicans (they were there first) and pay off our national debt. You might as well include Alaska whose multiple tribes are costly to support, sell it back to Russia. Maybe they are better at political correctness than we are.


In the meantime enforce the law equally, by that I mean, if they refuse to collect sales taxes shut them down. If they refuse to pay property taxes (I believe they are now current) follow the law and seize the property. If you or I acted in a similar fashion as the Cayuga we would be dealt with in this manner and I see no reason why they should not be held to the same standards.



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#601611 --- 07/10/07 08:37 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: grinch
Thanks. A letter is a letter, much as a post is a post. I am seeking some authoritive information that confirms Mr Pettingill's information. I believe what he said in the letter, but would like to see the source reference to confirm his information relative to land into trust. I have read the 1926 Tribunal of Paris resolution and I am aware of how NYS acquired the land.


I was not trying to answer your post but rather just happened to post after your question.

No deal for the tribe.
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#601612 --- 07/10/07 08:41 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote -NO [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Off-reservation casinos face an "uphill battle" with Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthrone in charge, a Bureau of Indian Affairs official said.
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#601618 --- 07/10/07 08:49 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
... All six nations gave the title of all their land to the British, in exchange for their help in fighting the French.



Why have the tribes not sued the Brit's?
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#601630 --- 07/10/07 09:24 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Daily Policy Digest

State & Local Issues / State & Local taxes

Tuesday, January 13, 2004

Once a gambling enriched-tribe acquires land, the new "reservation" becomes a sovereign nation, exempt from all local and state laws, zoning ordinances, labor rules, environmental reviews, and American rules of due process and fair play in law enforcement, says Jan Golab. In addition, the "reservation" and business built on it, including a casino, has complete tax exemption. This policy erodes the local tax base and reduces government revenues.

Because of the numbers of casinos established in California, this poses a serious problem for the state's struggling economy:


In 2002, revenues from newly built casinos in California soared to $5 billion per year -- but the casinos paid virtually nothing to the state.
The Supreme Court has ruled that Indians must collect sales tax from customers who are not Indians, but nearly all tribal businesses ignore this rule, resulting in the undercutting of competing non-Indian businesses.
Although they pay little in taxes, gaming tribes seek to influence the political process -- spending over $120 million to push their candidates and ballot initiatives in recent years. That is more than George W. Bush spent nationwide to be elected President.

The impact is just as grave in other states, says Golab:


In Oklahoma, $580 million in annual sales and property taxes are lost to Indians in the state.




New York lost $895 million in 2002 by failing to collect taxes on cigarettes sold by Indians.




Because of the erosion of state and local tax base, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken on the Indian gaming industry in California and is asking that they contribute 25 percent of their earnings to the state, or approximately $1 billion.

Source: Jan Golab, "Arnold Schwarzenegger Girds For Indian War," American Enterprise, January/February 2004, American Enterprise Institute.

For more on American Enterprise
http://www.taemag.com

For more on State & Local taxes
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/sta/

--------------------------------

Have the Cayugas paid these taxes to NY?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#601826 --- 07/10/07 04:49 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: grinch
Thanks. A letter is a letter, much as a post is a post. I am seeking some authoritive information that confirms Mr Pettingill's information. I believe what he said in the letter, but would like to see the source reference to confirm his information relative to land into trust. I have read the 1926 Tribunal of Paris resolution and I am aware of how NYS acquired the land.


I was not trying to answer your post but rather just happened to post after your question.

No deal for the tribe.


My post was a bit brusque, it was not meant to be. Sorry about that. Mr. Warren and Mr. Talcott furnished me with information that proofs out my belief. That belief being, there are no federal trust lands in NYS held by Indian tribes. The next time one of those "well" informed public officials tell me differently I will have a reference source to bolster my arguments.

I have read several articles lately where the courts have shot down challenges to trust lands in Michigan lodged by opponents of land into trust. Each seem to have some twist or loop hole that negated the protests. I remain firm in my opinion that is not going to happen in the Cayuga Seneca area and we should say no to this proposal.

I agree with the suggestion to contact your state and federal representatives and state your opposition. Demand they support our interests and not the big money people who are behind this latest proposal. If the vote fails and the proposal is rejected, so what, by agreeing to this proposal it amounts to the same thing as their buying land and applying for trust. You might say the money will not be there if we turn it down, it is my opinion the money promised will not materialize and if it does it will be short lived. We will have given up sovereign NYS land for nothing. The question of limiting the acreage they can declare sovereign is mute. They want 10000 acres, that is ten thousand acres of sovereign NYS land on which they answer to no one. That will only be the beginning of what they want. I do not believe the courts would ever approve that much land being taken off the tax rolls without some form of compensation to the local communities.


For that matter, if you are in favor do that as well.


If people see gambling as entertainment and want a casino on every street corner, lets work towards changing the law so that anyone can open one.

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#602253 --- 07/11/07 04:42 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
This statement by Floyd and Marge Baker speaks volumes and is one of the reasons many of us are so adamant against allowing Indian nations to establish sovereignty over lands that have not been theirs for hundreds of years.
Excerpt from the Finger Lakes Times Article July 11th 2007

"The most moving statements came from Floyd and Marge Baker, owners of Finger Lakes Returnables in Seneca Falls.

They said that when they first opened, business was initially slow-going, but they were turning a decent profit by 1997 and bringing in $1.1 million a year by 2003; a month after the Nation store opened, cigarette sales alone dropped $25,000. They also lost related sales to customers who bought other items while stopping for cigarettes and/or gas.

"We saw friends of ours in Oneida and Madison counties," Marge Baker said, struggling in vain to hold back tears. "We watched them as they lost their businesses and properties."

Floyd Baker said his property was appraised at $654,000, but sold for $325,000 (in October 2004) because most buyers backed away, citing unfair competition.

He said they spent 15 years building a business they hoped would benefit their children and grandchildren, but that Indian businesses created unfair trade practices, the law was not enforced and they couldn't compete.

"We are supposed to live in a land where all men and women are created equal," Floyd Baker read, saying the Indians want to be reimbursed for land they sold. "We're also native Americans. What the Indian nations are demanding is unfair, unconstitutional and unreasonable.""

To read the entire article go to : http://fltimes.com/articles/2007/07/11/news/news01-02.txt

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#602779 --- 07/12/07 07:12 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote-NO [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#604560 --- 07/16/07 07:25 AM Re: Arcuri Favors Cayuga settlement [Re: bluezone]
Driver8 Offline
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Registered: 05/19/00
Posts: 1081
Loc: Seneca Falls
Just heard the Congressman on the radio. He said that he wouldn't support a settlement if the counties don't get on board first, but was pretty clear that he wants them to settle. He said that if the counties don't settle, the BIA will put "unlimited" lands in trust and the counties won't get a dime.

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#604725 --- 07/16/07 12:58 PM Re: Arcuri Favors Cayuga settlement [Re: Driver8]
Laker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/13/00
Posts: 239
Loc: SF, NY USA
If the tribe is holding all the cards, WHY do they want to make a deal ????? THINK ABOUT IT . They think the can loose in the courts, that why.

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#604728 --- 07/16/07 01:06 PM Re: Arcuri Favors Cayuga settlement [Re: Driver8]
BraveHeart Offline
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Registered: 04/12/00
Posts: 17740
Loc: TOV Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Driver8
Just heard the Congressman on the radio. He said that he wouldn't support a settlement if the counties don't get on board first, but was pretty clear that he wants them to settle. He said that if the counties don't settle, the BIA will put "unlimited" lands in trust and the counties won't get a dime.


Sounds like extortion to me
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#604730 --- 07/16/07 01:15 PM Re: Arcuri Favors Cayuga settlement [Re: BraveHeart]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Vote NO..........

The supreme court did not say that the tribe will get trust land but said that would be the only way for it to sovereign.

It appears that the supreme court offered the statment about trust land as a way to lessen the court lose for the tribes. If the supreme court did not make a statement about trust land then the tribe may have started a riot.

No trust land will be in NY.





.
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#604988 --- 07/16/07 09:55 PM Re: Arcuri Favors Cayuga settlement [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
The Bureau of Indian Affairs was formed in 1824. But similar agencies had existed in the U.S. government as far back as 1775, when a trio of Indian agencies were created by the Second Continental Congress. Benjamin Franklin and Patrick Henry were among the early commissioners, who were charged with negotiating treaties with Native Americans and obtaining their neutrality during the American Revolutionary War. In 1789, the United States Congress placed Native American relations within the newly-formed War Department.

The current Bureau of Indian Affairs was formed on March 11, 1824, by Secretary of War John C. Calhoun, who created the agency without authorization from the United States Congress.

Food for thought.

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#605158 --- 07/17/07 08:47 AM Re: Arcuri should vote NO [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
without authorization from the United States Congress.

Food for thought.


If we use the theory that the tribes claim-that the treaty(s) did not have authorization from Congress then all decisions put forth by the BIA should be void.
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#605159 --- 07/17/07 08:48 AM Re: Arcuri should vote NO [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Is Okla in hiding?
LOL
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#605160 --- 07/17/07 08:50 AM Re: Arcuri should vote NO [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Why does the "settlement" not include repayment of all the monies that the tribes received for the land over the past 200 years (plus interest)?

LOL
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#605216 --- 07/17/07 10:57 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
... All six nations gave the title of all their land to the British, in exchange for their help in fighting the French.



Why have the tribes not sued the Brit's?

Bluezone, where did you get this information?
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#605328 --- 07/17/07 02:37 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: Josephus]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
It's in the National Archives. The Iroquois deeded all their lands to the Brits in 1702 and again in 1726 in exchange for protection from the French.

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#606266 --- 07/19/07 08:14 AM Re: Cayuga vote [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
And now the tribe wants to sue the US?
Maybe the tribe should sue the Brits?

July 31 vote NO
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#629783 --- 08/28/07 10:17 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Cayuga County voted tonight and passed the resolution that Seneca County passed out of their tribal committee. Only Cayuga County noted - in their agenda "as amended", thus making it clear that it was rejecting the pending proposal. Only one legislator, Mike Lepak, opposed. It was a good day.

RESOLUTION_______ (8.28.07) CHR-Reject Cayuga Nation Proposal

RESOLUTION TO PROPOSE A CLASS III CASINO IN THE CATSKILLS IN LIEU OF LAND IN TRUST FOR THE CAYUGA INDIAN NATION OF NEW YORK IN SENECA AND CAYUGA COUNTIES AND TO REJECT THE ORIGINAL SETTLEMENT PROPOSAL (AS AMENDED)

BY: MR. FEARON, Chairman, Cayuga County Legislature
MR. LOCKWOOD, Chairman, (Temporary) Cayuga County Native American Affairs Committee

WHEREAS, Seneca and Cayuga counties have been presented with a proposal to resolve pending and future federal trust applications in a settlement which would allow the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York to place in restricted fee status up to 10,000 acres in the claim area, thus making it “sovereign” Indian territory (“the original settlement proposal”); and

WHEREAS, the same proposal provides for the counties to be compensated annually for the loss of tax revenue as land is placed in restricted fee status, such compensation coming from the revenue of a Class III casino to be located somewhere in New York State, presumably in Sullivan County, and

WHEREAS, the Cayuga County Legislature is opposed to the establishment of sovereign Indian territory in their county; and

WHEREAS, the net drop of a casino in the Catskills has been estimated to be $492,000,000 annually; and

WHEREAS, the tribal membership of the Cayuga Indian Nation is reported to be approximately 450; and

WHEREAS, Chapter 25 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR 151.10 and .11) requires an Indian tribe to demonstrate need in order for land to be taken into federal trust, and

WHEREAS, evidence has been presented to the Cayuga County Legislature which appears to indicate that the Cayuga Indian Nation currently occupies certain acreage within Western New York; and

WHEREAS, a Class III casino in the Catskills is estimated to provide the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York with a net drop of over $1,000,000 per tribal member annually; and

WHEREAS, there would therefore be no need for the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York to have any land placed in trust for it in Seneca and Cayuga counties if it operated a Class III casino in Sullivan County; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, that Cayuga County Legislature proposes that the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York be allowed by the State of New York to operate a Class III casino in New York State (Sullivan County) through a valid State Compact; and be it further

-2-
RESOLVED, that in return for the right to operate a Class III casino in New York State the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York would forever relinquish its right to apply for land to be placed in trust or restricted fee status or otherwise become sovereign in the counties of Seneca and Cayuga; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Congress of the United States ratify an agreement between the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York, the State of New York, and the counties of Seneca and Cayuga to this effect; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Cayuga County Legislature rejects the original settlement proposal. (as amended)

George C. Fearon, Chairman Cayuga County Legislature
____________________________________________

Raymond E. Lockwood, (Temporary) Cayuga County Native American Affairs Committee

____________________________________________
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#630557 --- 08/29/07 07:36 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
justaxme Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
How likely is it that the Feds will give land in Seneca and Cayuga Counties to the indians? Or is it more likely that they will give them one chunk of land in the Catskills or wherever to build a casino.

Do you think the Feds will let the indians cherry pick the best locations in Seneca and Cayuga Counties and then allow them tax free zones to drive existing businesses out of business AND a Casino somewhere else?
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#630638 --- 08/29/07 09:11 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: justaxme]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: justaxme
How likely is it that the Feds will give land in Seneca and Cayuga Counties to the indians? Or is it more likely that they will give them one chunk of land in the Catskills or wherever to build a casino.

Do you think the Feds will let the indians cherry pick the best locations in Seneca and Cayuga Counties and then allow them tax free zones to drive existing businesses out of business AND a Casino somewhere else?


I expect the feds will approve one location - they don't want checkerboard reservations either. That location could be anywhere and may not even be in the old land claim area. Trust applications have nothing to do with the land claim, although the tribe dragged it's land claim arguments out in the application. I expect whatever is approved will be rejected in the courts. Anything challenged cannot be granted trust status while it is being challenged.

And then, there's Texas. I always liked Texas.

LONESTAR STATE
----------------------------------------------------------------
NO TO CASINOS Fifth Circuit rules for state
by Christine DeLoma


The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit held that the Secretary of the Interior has no power to allow gambling, in this case the Kickapoo Indian Reservation, over the objection of the state. The decision is a victory for Texas in the latest round of litigation designed to keep casino gaming out of the Lone Star State.

Indian tribes are sovereign only to the federal government on their lands, meaning that a state can regulate conduct on a reservation only when Congress says it can.

Gambling on Indian lands is illegal under federal law unless a tribe enters into a compact with the state where the gambling occurs and under what conditions.
An exception to the compact requirement occurs if a federal court rules that a state has negotiated in bad faith. Then a state has to enter a mediation process with the Secretary of the Interior, who has authority to impose a compact on the state.

There’s one catch — the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that under the 11th amendment to the U. S. Constitution Congress cannot force states to submit to a lawsuit from the tribes.

So the current Secretary of the Interior was working on mandatory mediation procedures, even absent a finding from the federal courts that a state has negotiated in bad faith.

Texas sued, challenging these procedures, and the appeals court has issued a judgment for the state, agreeing that the federal government exceeded its authority.

What makes the decision complex is that each of the three judges on the panel wrote an opinion. Writing for the court, Chief Judge Edith H. Jones held that the secretary exceeded his authority, and that unless Congress acts, a state cannot be compelled to enter the secretary’s mediation procedure. Her opinion would make it easy for Texas to keep out gambling. She explicitly states that a state’s refusal to allow Class III (casino) gambling would be bargaining in good faith.

Judge Carolyn Dineen King concurred in the judgment, but not in Jones’s opinion. She did, however, agree that the secretary of the interior exceeded his authority.

Judge James L. Dennis dissented, arguing that the regulations were within the secretary’s authority to adopt. Dennis questioned whether Texas had negotiated in good faith, arguing that the state allows some types of Class III gaming (the lottery) but will not negotiate a compact with the Indian tribes.

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#631621 --- 08/31/07 09:59 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Originally Posted By: Don
This is crap. The Supreme Court rules one way so the Cayugas go back door to the BIA. I say we fight them again tooth and nail. Everytime they try to find a loophole we should be there to shut it down. A lawsuit against the federal government might be in order. Instead, our politicians are figuring out how to divvy up $15 million.


You are right on!!! 15 million dollars is petty cash to these indian casinos. Then they want to come in and cherry pick properties to run tax paying citizens out of business. It's a joke and our professional lifetime politicians DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!! They only care about "not saying anything" and getting re-elected. Bunch of jackasses!!!
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#631773 --- 08/31/07 12:11 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
What they care about, how much will that tribe contribute to their political fund.


Edited by grinch (08/31/07 01:55 PM)

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#632138 --- 09/01/07 05:48 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: grinch]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Originally Posted By: grinch
What they care about, how much will that tribe contribute to their political fund.


How much do you think it costs to buy the average professional lifetime politician? I need to buy me one so I can live off the government too!!!! Workin' for a living is too much work!!!
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#632169 --- 09/01/07 06:34 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: justaxme]
Ranger Offline
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Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
I hear tell there might be one, you can pick up pretty cheap, his reputation is a little tarnished, but I sure bet he won't command that much on the open market anymore. Just don't go into the johns w/ him.
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#647970 --- 09/25/07 06:21 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: dwarren]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
Originally Posted By: dwarren
Here you go right from the State of New York itself: "Not surprisingly, no Indian land in New York has ever been held in trust status for the Oneidas or any other Indian group." (Page 3 last sentence of first paragraph of http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/legal_protection_pdf/oingrp3memo.pdf )


Here is information on the votes from the Office of the Solicitor of the Department of Interior: http://www.upstate-citizens.org/10-Years-of-Tribal-Government-Under-the-IRA.pdf

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#650593 --- 09/28/07 05:14 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: dwarren]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
When the tribes are refused trust land in NY then will Spitzer enforce the laws/taxes?
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#880411 --- 09/11/08 07:09 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
tribe lost.
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#929335 --- 12/02/08 05:00 PM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It's in the National Archives. The Iroquois deeded all their lands to the Brits in 1702 and again in 1726 in exchange for protection from the French.


have the tribe sue the Brits.
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#968994 --- 01/28/09 09:34 AM Re: Cayuga settlement vote [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
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#970796 --- 01/30/09 02:35 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
What is the economic condition of the non-indian businesses and residents in the imediate area of Turning Stone? How did the school district that Turning Stone is in make out with having the casino? How many new jobs and "support" businesses were created when Turning Stone started?
_________________________

The non-Indian businesses in the immediate area, convenience stores have all either been shut down or bought off by the tribe. Locally, the one in Union Springs lost 84% of it's business, which is why it will not reopen thanks to Governor Spitzer. The restaurants were also affected and some have been bought by the tribe. Grocery stores are also losing business. No non-tribal marinas on the end of the lake the Turning Stone is on sell gas anymore. The county coroner's business is booming and he sometimes needs help, but he's been told not to brag about all the new business he's received thanks to the Turning Stone.

As to "support" businesses, well let's see, they all received letters telling them they had to support Halbritter's applications to place 17,000 acres into federal trust or lose their business with the resort. Assemblywoman RoAnn DeStito's husband got a contract with the tribe, that's one job created. Maybe that's why she isn't as vocal as Townsend. Oh, and the sales tax there is ten percent now to make up for the businesses that were lost that used to pay into the tax structure and loss in property taxes. The school distrrict get silver trinket awards donated to it at a fraction of what the taxes would be and such donations have been witheld in the past.

Two days ago, Assemblyman Townsend held a news conference at Arnott's grocery store at the corner of Route 31 and Main Street in Verona, urging the Nation to "start paying property taxes" and appealing to Gov. Eliot Spitzer to follow through on his plan to collect sales taxes from Indian enterprises across the state.

He said the Arnott's site was selected for the news conference as "just an example of a...family business trying to stay alive...hang on," while paying regular taxes in the face of the Nation's competitive advantage from not making such payments.

"This is costing local residents and businesses millions and millions of dollars," Townsend said. "We are calling on Ray Halbritter to finally live up to his words as a good neighbor and start paying property taxes they owe."

Townsend said the nation owes $248 million in property and sales taxes.

Also speaking in agreement with Townsend were county legislator Michael Hennessy, D-2, Sherrill, and representatives of Citizens Equal Rights Alliance, Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association and Central New York Fair Business Association.
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#997201 --- 03/20/09 10:08 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
...I told her there was no land claim to settle and IGRA didn't have a casino exception for trust applications on lands purchased after 1988. The Citizen replied that the Cayuga tribe claims their land claim is still alive, that it was only settled in the courts.



The land claims are a scam.
US citizens should obey the same laws and pay their share.

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1001333 --- 03/30/09 12:04 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone

Townsend said the nation owes $248 million in property and sales taxes.


Say it ain't so?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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