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#595693 --- 06/26/07 10:20 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
spin don. and my employment is none of your business.

stop making threats against any poster that does not share your opinion.
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#595694 --- 06/26/07 10:22 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: sworldt]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
Answer my question ,please...

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#595695 --- 06/26/07 10:28 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
Don L Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 386
I am waiting...

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#595923 --- 06/27/07 11:02 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Don L]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Who really presented the latest Cayuga proposal? Exactly who are you dealing with? The Cayuga of New York dispute their leadership while the BIA recognizes only Halftown. They are ignoring the other half of this faction. Under this proposal the Seneca Cayuga are to be excluded and they too are in dispute over who is to lead them, see attached news article. If this proposal is accepted there will be law suits by the half of the Cayuga who do not recognize Halftown, and certainly when the Seneca Cayuga decide who is chief they will sue as well plus private groups who are interested in this mess.


Dr Dresser and Indian Committee members: You would better serve the public interest by spending your time seeking ways to fight the land into trust process and end this. Enlist the aide of our Senators and Representatives to put finality to this fiasco. If they will not attempt to do so, work to elect those who will represent our interests. If Harris Beech will not put up a decent argument against the trust process seek a law firm that will. Rich Ricci and Fearon have it right, get a second opinion from another law firm




Recent election cited in dispute between Seneca-Cayuga factions

— By Sheila Stogsdill
news@joplinglobe.com
GROVE, Okla. — A dispute over a recent Seneca-Cayuga election has led to the closing of the tribe’s tobacco factory, leaving 60 employees without jobs on Tuesday.
Chief Paul Spicer said Gary Toland, manager of the factory, shut down the operation. Spicer said the tribe did not have materials, and alleged that the tribe’s secretary-treasurer had illegally frozen the tribe’s financial accounts.
Without free access to its accounts, the tribe cannot buy raw materials for its tobacco factory, Spicer said.
In front of the tobacco factory, Kay Crow-Ellison, tribal secretary-treasurer, and Sharon “Katie” Birdsong, second chief, had a news conference denying Spicer’s allegations. They said they wanted to clear up any misconceptions about the tribe’s finances.
Both women said there are materials at the factory.
In a memo dated June 25 to tobacco factory employees, Seneca-Cayuga Tribal Corp. began laying off workers, saying the bank accounts were inaccessible.
Crow-Ellison said Spicer is misleading tribal members when he says the factory was closed because the tribe’s funds are frozen or inaccessible.
“I have talked to our banks, and all of our accounts are open,” Crow-Ellison said. “The banks are doing business as usual and honoring our checks.”
The factory makes about 15,500 cartons of cigarettes daily. The cost of a carton is $13, Crow-Ellison said.
Most of the employees are expecting to pick up their regular paychecks today, the women said.
“The tribe is seeking a restraining order and damages against the individuals responsible for the alleged illegal actions,” Spicer said, referring to frozen accounts.
Spicer said the problem involves a few disgruntled members whose candidates recently lost a tribal election by a 2-to-1 margin and now are seeking to grab power by any means.
“This is only the latest in a series of actions by the losing side in our recent elections to disrupt the duly elected government and its operations,” Spicer said. “We go through this every election, and I’m tired of it.”
In the tribe’s June 2 general council and election, Spicer was re-elected to a second term as chief. Several protests were filed regarding the validity of the election.
Also during the June 2 meeting, the election and grievance committees were seated. The new election committee upheld the protests and called for a new election. The old election committee threw out the protests and certified the election, citing Spicer as chief.
According to records in the Court of Indian Offenses in Miami, Judge William Wantland on June 12 issued a temporary restraining order staying the certification of the election. A court date of July 20 was set for hearing arguments.
“We don’t know who the chief is,” Crow-Ellison said.
Birdsong and Crow-Ellison said the Bureau of Indian Affairs will not do business with the tribe and federal funds will not be reinstated until after the July 20 court date.
“That is wrong,” Spicer said. “We are doing business with BIA every day.”
In addition to the tobacco factory closing, several social services — including emergency funds, the tribal tag program, all federal programs and the health-care clinic — were suspended after Spicer locked the gates to the tribe’s Miami office, said Dolly Pewitt, a former tribal council member.
Spicer said all other services, including Grand Lake Casino, were open.


Tribal membership

The Seneca-Cayuga Tribe has about 4,400 members, about half of whom live in Delaware and Ottawa counties in Northeast Oklahoma.

Copyright © 1999-2006 cnhi, inc.


NOTE: Don L this is a general posting not directed towards you.

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#596338 --- 06/27/07 10:00 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
"I don't have anything against anybody." Then you should not be posting such crap as you did about me. We proved that the land deal was illegal. We may not have got any money but it paved the way for us to get land placed in trust. My opinion is that this Cayuga settlement offer is nothing more then a ploy to bring other Tribes to the table. The last governor was doing the same things as this one is. I don't see this offer going any place. Even if the locals pass it, it will never pass in congress without my Tribe being a part of it. Things are still going as planed. It may seem to you that we are back to ground zero, but we now have a s.c. rulling that the way is to have our land placed in trust. Oh by the way I haven't posted as much because I haven't seen much of anything worth my time. So we do agree on one thing. This thread is rather dull.


Welcome back Okla. I didn't expect us to agree on your trust application.

You hardly proved the land deal to be legal. The whole land claim was dismissed, thrown out, trashed ... based on "the actions and inactions of all parties involved over the 200 year period." That's what "laches" means. I know - Judge McCurn would agree with you, in fact he did. But he was ruled to be incorrect.

As for paving the way for trust land applications, the land claim didn't and couldn't do that. The Seneca-Cayuga tribe was granted that benefit in 1934 when they organized under the Indian Reorganization Act. You've ALWAYS had that option.

What you should be pointing out to your attorneys is that the New York Cayuga tribe rejected that act and its associated benefits. In fact it was THAT reason why Clint Halftown was ruled by the BIA to be the leader when two other factions claimed to be the real government last summer, because that tribe never organized as a democracy.

There are other points regarding why neither applications apply here, but we'll get there in due time.

I find it humerous that you're not happy with my Governor, considering your posts of the past. That "may" be three things we agree on. This thread, my Governor and the proposed settlement.

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#596473 --- 06/28/07 08:16 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
I didn't say that I wasn't happy with your governor. Here is what I said "The last governor was doing the same things as this one is." I just don't see that it will work out for him. Yes the land claim was thrown out, but that didn't make what was done legal. Sorry but you are wrong "I know - Judge McCurn would agree with you, in fact he did. But he was ruled to be incorrect." he was not ruled to be incorrect. Remember it was laches that killed the claim. " based on "the actions and inactions of all parties involved over the 200 year period." That's what "laches" means. As for what's going on now, I don't see us doing anything unless it makes it to the feds. "There are other points regarding why neither applications apply here, but we'll get there in due time.
" I still say that federal laws apply to all states.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#596999 --- 06/28/07 09:13 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Dear Okla,

When are we getting our Casino and World class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls? Please Hurry!!!

Fondly,

Lusifer
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#597022 --- 06/28/07 09:53 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Yes the land claim was thrown out, but that didn't make what was done legal. Sorry but you are wrong "I know - Judge McCurn would agree with you, in fact he did. But he was ruled to be incorrect." he was not ruled to be incorrect. Remember it was laches that killed the claim. " based on "the actions and inactions of all parties involved over the 200 year period." That's what "laches" means. As for what's going on now, I don't see us doing anything unless it makes it to the feds. "There are other points regarding why neither applications apply here, but we'll get there in due time.
" I still say that federal laws apply to all states.


Hello Okla:

As to the deal 200 years ago being legal or illegal, I regret that we'll just have to disagree because the appeals courts never ruled on the merits (the actual transactions) of the claim itself.

My statement of Judge McCurn being incorrect, and I apologize for not being more specific, was that he ruled latches as invalid and not applicable. IF that argument had not been brought up, the appeals courts could not have ruled on it - because they can only reconsider what has already been considered. They reversed McCurn's ruling and ruled that it did apply. Therefore, McCurn was incorrect. You could argue that McCurn was correct and the whole appeals court was wrong. But, what can I say?

As for whats going on now, UCE is doing what it can to prevent the proposal from getting to the feds. I don't expect you to thank us, but you're welcome. LOL

Your position on federal laws applying to all states would normally apply. Specificaly refering to trust applications, we disagree again.

But at this point, aside from the fact neither of us has a vote in the matter anyway, the pending proposed settlement circumvents the trust process by granting restricted fee status instead. I think UCE may have influenced enough votes to stop it, but there are no guarantees. IF it makes it to the feds, I sincerely wish you luck in defeating it.

Lawsuits overturning trust applicability to the colony states would revert trust land status, if granted, back to simple fee taxable property. Not so with restricted fee because it would be an act of Congress.

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#597302 --- 06/29/07 09:44 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Lusi:

I know your visions of short deer skin skirts may be skewing your viewpoint. But people that get what they ask for may not be happy with what they get if they don't fill in all the details first. The obvious lack of details in the proposed settlement is nobody has seen a copy and details were presumably to be filled in later. i.e.: short deerskin skirts may not really be what you want when you discover later that it takes three full deer skins to make one. LOL

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#597353 --- 06/29/07 11:22 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Dick to make fun of someones is not in good tast. "short deerskin skirts may not really be what you want when you discover later that it takes three full deer skins to make one. LOL" If I had any respect for you, that post alone would have blown it.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#597357 --- 06/29/07 11:32 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
" Not so with restricted fee because it would be an act of Congress." Congress is waiting for something that all parties are willing to sign off on. And as you know we are not a willing party to this agreement. Have you seen the letter that our Chief sent?
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#597363 --- 06/29/07 11:41 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Dear Okla,

When are we getting our Casino and World class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls? Please Hurry!!!

Fondly,

Lusifer
The way things look at this time there will not be any casino and world class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls or any were close.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#597599 --- 06/29/07 04:05 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Dick to make fun of someones is not in good tast.


You are one to talk.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#597610 --- 06/29/07 05:06 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
The way things look at this time there will not be any casino and world class entertainment acts in Seneca Falls or any were close.


Okla's chief has shut down their cig business.

Looks like they cannot even get along with each other???
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#597685 --- 06/29/07 09:24 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Hmmm, your own skewed vision must have placed a person in the skirt. Was it too realistic to be humerous? My post was in refrence to details, or rather lack of details regarding the trust settlement, directed at Lusifer in a manner that he would relate to. Prior posts of Lusi stated that short deerskin skirts is why he wanted the casino.

Not every post is directed at you amd I realize you have difficulty understanding.

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#597690 --- 06/29/07 09:49 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Have you seen the letter that our Chief sent?

I saw news articles related to it and fully understand a lawsuit would be filed.

Once again, it may not be as easy to block as you think. Your own Oklahoma Senators and Congressman are really the only ones that might stand a chance of blocking it.

There are two standing factors that aren't going to go away. One: Congress has plenary power over tribes and two: the Seneca-Cayuga tribe relinquished all rights to sue the federal government for claims in 1977 when you accepted the last "final" land claim settlement. That's why the only avenue open was to sue the states, counties and individuals in 1980. Even then you were only added to the Cayugas existing lawsuit, mistakenly, by Judge McCurn. Your options are really a lot slimmer than you think.

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#597872 --- 06/30/07 02:12 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...






Details Shmreetails.....Look what we are missing Dick......

Definately missing Dick........
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Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#597929 --- 06/30/07 08:17 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
MorganHills Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: On a tangent
you are an A hole in the BIGGEST way

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#597948 --- 06/30/07 10:21 PM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: MorganHills]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Thank you...

That is partly what Lusifer is all about.....

You are starting to really know me....and to know me is to....


Well you know what, those butterflies in your belly when you read my posts....that tingling feeling you get ....
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#597962 --- 07/01/07 12:29 AM Re: Cayuga settlement offer - has anyone heard ? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aren't there other topics to talk about? I believe you would get an even higher frequency of participants if you would quit burning us out with all of the road signs. Cayuga County is a toxic little county. I live in the land claim area also. This county will go nowhere as long as it maintains it's current mentality.

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