FingerLakes1.com Forums
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1016813 --- 04/30/09 04:40 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: justaxme]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
you gotta remember where the politicians get their backing from, and you'll be better able to understand why this has gone on for so long.
_________________________
TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA

Top
FingerLakes1.com
#1017028 --- 04/30/09 11:30 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: justaxme]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Sorry to have to say that the out come will depend on the integrity of the ones with the power to make the final decisions. The Indians, from the ill gotten gains of their illegal business practices, have deep pockets. It will depend on who has accepted campaign funds, etc. from them. Unfortunately, some favor monetary contributions over voters when it comes right down to it.

Strictly speaking, no question, legally it should be decided in favor of the State and Counties.
_________________________



Top
#1017237 --- 04/30/09 07:07 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
Sorry to have to say that the out come will depend on the integrity of the ones with the power to make the final decisions. The Indians, from the ill gotten gains of their illegal business practices, have deep pockets. It will depend on who has accepted campaign funds, etc. from them. Unfortunately, some favor monetary contributions over voters when it comes right down to it.

Strictly speaking, no question, legally it should be decided in favor of the State and Counties.


Silver Fox-

Strictly speaking, please provide your legal credentials, as I will then be able to compare them to the Appellate Court Judges and decide if I am better off listening to your opinion or theirs!

I am starting to smell a - if you win, the judges will be high integrity individuals who have received no campaign contributions from Indians and if they win, the judges have no integrity and have been bought off by Indians scenario.

I would think your obvious level of commitment and fervor for this issue would mean that you had researched any "relevant" campaign contributions to this matter before you inferred such. I would appreciate it if you would share the results of that research.

Top
#1017324 --- 04/30/09 10:33 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
Hot Burrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 767
Loc: Tiajuna Flats
If the court rules against the Cayugas will you/they respect their decision and stop selling cigarettes for good?

Top
#1017328 --- 04/30/09 10:54 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
You came on the forums wanting to deal in facts and yet clearly you have done no research. Your expertise is strictly second hand hear say and have made you look uninformed on a lot of factual issues. The only facts you are interested in and present here on the forums are the twisted historical facts of your employer that are not even close to the truth. The SCOTUS rulings should have been final. There never should have been any decisions to be made by the appellate court. If these courts decisions go in favor of the Cayugas I would definitely smell a very large rat. The only way they can win is by twisting the facts and baffling the judges with BS.

I have better things to do and I will not waste time researching anything else for you. You can do your own research and prove me wrong. As CFO you know full well, or should know, how much monies have been contributed and to whom. You also know how greed and money influence things.
_________________________



Top
#1017389 --- 05/01/09 04:37 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: Hot Burrito]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
If the court rules against the Cayugas will you/they respect their decision and stop selling cigarettes for good?


Sorry don't know the answer - if the decision is in favor of the counties the Cayugas will have to see if they are able to take the matter to the Court of Appeals and then decide if they choose to do so. Same will apply to the counties if the decision is in favor of the Cayugas.

Top
#1017392 --- 05/01/09 04:42 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
You came on the forums wanting to deal in facts and yet clearly you have done no research. Your expertise is strictly second hand hear say and have made you look uninformed on a lot of factual issues. The only facts you are interested in and present here on the forums are the twisted historical facts of your employer that are not even close to the truth. The SCOTUS rulings should have been final. There never should have been any decisions to be made by the appellate court. If these courts decisions go in favor of the Cayugas I would definitely smell a very large rat. The only way they can win is by twisting the facts and baffling the judges with BS.

I have better things to do and I will not waste time researching anything else for you. You can do your own research and prove me wrong. As CFO you know full well, or should know, how much monies have been contributed and to whom. You also know how greed and money influence things.


You miss my point. I did not ask you to do any research on my behalf. As you correctly point out, I already know whether or not the Cayugas have made political contributions.

My point is - you infer that YOU know that information. I don't think you do, yet you have no problem implying otherwise. Unless you show me otherwise, I'll have to assume you are full of second hand hearsay!

By the way, I am COO, not CFO.

Top
#1017540 --- 05/01/09 09:56 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Let's put it this way, I have spent hours doing research and that is a lot more than you have done. I know what I know based on research and facts and your opinion means very little to me. Most, if not all, of your facts are originated from your employer and are spun with misrepresentations of the truth and amount to nothing more than your/their opinion. You came on here asking for facts and haven't been happy when the facts and truth are presented to you. I fully understand your reluctance to "bite the hand that feeds you". Hopefully, the courts will have the integrity to uphold the decisions that have already been made by SCOTUS. Hopefully our governor and politicians at the state and federal level will have the integrity to follow the lead of SCOTUS and put an end to this nonsense once and for all. Hopefully the Cayugas will become law abiding citizens and good neighbors. Good neighbors in every sense like they have always claimed they want to be.

I am sure the Cayugas will do every thing in their power to keep things in court hoping to get the answers they want. Eventually that tactic may be their downfall. The courts may see it as the little boy that cried wolf one too many times and put an end to their defiance of previous court orders.
_________________________



Top
#1017574 --- 05/01/09 11:10 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Cayugas NEVER surrendered their soverign nation status.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

Top
#1017578 --- 05/01/09 11:43 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
Let's put it this way, I have spent hours doing research and that is a lot more than you have done. I know what I know based on research and facts and your opinion means very little to me. Most, if not all, of your facts are originated from your employer and are spun with misrepresentations of the truth and amount to nothing more than your/their opinion. You came on here asking for facts and haven't been happy when the facts and truth are presented to you. I fully understand your reluctance to "bite the hand that feeds you". Hopefully, the courts will have the integrity to uphold the decisions that have already been made by SCOTUS. Hopefully our governor and politicians at the state and federal level will have the integrity to follow the lead of SCOTUS and put an end to this nonsense once and for all. Hopefully the Cayugas will become law abiding citizens and good neighbors. Good neighbors in every sense like they have always claimed they want to be.

I am sure the Cayugas will do every thing in their power to keep things in court hoping to get the answers they want. Eventually that tactic may be their downfall. The courts may see it as the little boy that cried wolf one too many times and put an end to their defiance of previous court orders.


Silver Fox -

Please be clear. I do not have a problem with the fact that your opinion differs from mine on Cayuga Nation issues. I am fine with that! I'm sure we probably have differing opinions on lots of subjects and probably the same opinions on others. I, IN NO WAY, feel the need to change your opinion to agree with mine, on this issue or any other.

My point here is a simple one, but one I find very aggravating, which is the sole reason for my joining these posts. I did not come on to LEARN facts. I came to SHARE facts. The actual post that spurred me on was one that was in regards to Pullens Truck Center. The poster said "we have reason to believe" that Pullens does not pay sales tax. Now there is absolutely NOTHING that would lead someone to believe that Pullens doesn't pay sales tax and I would hope someone would verify such an accusation before making it in a public forum. But......I too often find on these posts that the verification step is not found necessary by the posters.

Your posts indicate that you are intelligent, articulate and possess a great deal of information regarding this subject. Those traits are not consistent with a person who would write the first sentence of your post. You have no idea how much research I have done. To assume I have done none and you have done lots is arrogant and presumptuous. Those traits are the very ones I find so annoying.

In summary, my issue is not with your opinions, it is with your assumptions.

Top
#1017592 --- 05/01/09 12:14 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Your research must be fairly recent. By your own admission, when you first came on the forums you had done little or no research. If that has changed I am happy to hear and hope you will continue to look for your own truth.

However, a lot of your posts that you consider facts are merely misinterpretation of the historical documents that are exactly the same misinterpretations of your employer. Therefore, I would consider them opinions or even assumptions based on what your employer has told you. Yet you knock others for opinions and assumptions.

Hell will freeze over before I will see your facts as truth because they do not hold up against the SCOTUS decisions and treaty documents I have read.

In summary, my problem with you is claiming to know facts and yet you continue presenting the same misrepresentations that the Cayugas have presented for years. The same misrepresentations that have failed in the courts for years and will hopefully continue to fail. There are many facts that I have presented and documented where I found the information so others can verify it for themselves. If you consider that opinions so be it. Obviously you have your opinions and I have mine and neither of us will ever change the others opinion. One thing you can take to the bank,if I see you presenting a "fact" that goes against the facts in historical documents, i.e. Article 2 of the Treaty of Canandaigua, I will make every effort to correct it and document my findings.
_________________________



Top
#1017600 --- 05/01/09 12:33 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
Your research must be fairly recent. By your own admission, when you first came on the forums you had done little or no research. If that has changed I am happy to hear and hope you will continue to look for your own truth.

However, a lot of your posts that you consider facts are merely misinterpretation of the historical documents that are exactly the same misinterpretations of your employer. Therefore, I would consider them opinions or even assumptions based on what your employer has told you. Yet you knock others for opinions and assumptions.

Hell will freeze over before I will see your facts as truth because they do not hold up against the SCOTUS decisions and treaty documents I have read.

In summary, my problem with you is claiming to know facts and yet you continue presenting the same misrepresentations that the Cayugas have presented for years. The same misrepresentations that have failed in the courts for years and will hopefully continue to fail. There are many facts that I have presented and documented where I found the information so others can verify it for themselves. If you consider that opinions so be it. Obviously you have your opinions and I have mine and neither of us will ever change the others opinion. One thing you can take to the bank,if I see you presenting a "fact" that goes against the facts in historical documents, i.e. Article 2 of the Treaty of Canandaigua, I will make every effort to correct it and document my findings.



First - I never made a post saying I had done no research. If I did, in some strange moment of insanity please show me where I can find the post!
Second - any posts where I mention court cases or treaties are in response to a question posed to me. I AM NOT IN THE OPINION CHANGING BUSINESS. I have answered questions people asked me, probably cause I believe strongly in politeness, but my goal in doing so was never to convince anyone of anything.

I am very comfortable with my truth as you quite obviously are with yours.

I too will stay vigilant about correcting posts - any that misstate facts about the Nation or make assumptions without having the facts.

Top
#1018014 --- 05/02/09 10:14 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
That should keep us busy watching each other. ;\)
_________________________



Top
#1018632 --- 05/04/09 08:11 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
That should keep us busy watching each other. ;\)


Facts, Assumptions, Opinions and how we differentiate between them! Makes for an interesting world. I look forward to continuing to read your posts! \:\)

Top
#1018670 --- 05/04/09 10:01 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Good morning!
_________________________



Top
#1018784 --- 05/04/09 01:00 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
Good morning!


By now it's afternoon. Good afternoon to you!

Top
#1023597 --- 05/13/09 05:48 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
Originally Posted By: BJ Radford
Originally Posted By: SilverFox
Sorry to have to say that the out come will depend on the integrity of the ones with the power to make the final decisions. The Indians, from the ill gotten gains of their illegal business practices, have deep pockets. It will depend on who has accepted campaign funds, etc. from them. Unfortunately, some favor monetary contributions over voters when it comes right down to it.

Strictly speaking, no question, legally it should be decided in favor of the State and Counties.


Silver Fox-

Strictly speaking, please provide your legal credentials, as I will then be able to compare them to the Appellate Court Judges and decide if I am better off listening to your opinion or theirs!

I am starting to smell a - if you win, the judges will be high integrity individuals who have received no campaign contributions from Indians and if they win, the judges have no integrity and have been bought off by Indians scenario.

I would think your obvious level of commitment and fervor for this issue would mean that you had researched any "relevant" campaign contributions to this matter before you inferred such. I would appreciate it if you would share the results of that research.


I accidentally ran across this website today. I think it backs up my statement on political contributions and their effect on issues.

http://www.accessmontana.com/morris/page20.html
_________________________



Top
#1023829 --- 05/14/09 05:14 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: SilverFox]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
I agree that political contributions impact decisions made by politicians. And I think it is a problem, at pretty much every level of government.
I find the website you linked pretty confusing, but don't find any contributions made by the Cayugas. Contributions made by Indian Gaming I see. The Cayugas do not currently have Indian Gaming. Nationally, I understand that, like lots of other industries, political contributions are made by Indian owned businesses.
To assume that because many Indian Nations make political contributions the Cayugas must is not a reasonable assumption.
I believe our conversation was about the Cayugas only - not Indians in general.

Top
#1024011 --- 05/14/09 10:17 AM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: BJ Radford]
Driver8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/00
Posts: 1081
Loc: Seneca Falls
Quote:
I find the website you linked pretty confusing, but don't find any contributions made by the Cayugas.


I seem to recall that Indian tribes are exempt from disclosure requirements. If so, there could thousands of bucks going into politicians' pockets from the Cayugas and that website wouldn't show a dime, right?

Top
#1024112 --- 05/14/09 01:51 PM Re: Another Land Claim Bites the Dust [Re: Driver8]
BJ Radford Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Geneva
I think that the onus is on the politicians to do the reporting of the donations they receive. Donators (is that a word?) have no reporting responsibility so whether or not the Cayugas report is a moot point.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >