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#570428 --- 04/30/07 04:59 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
SJ,
When you discover 28 gunshot bodies with 5.6mm bullets in them, and the marines that were engaged in the area admit that they shot them, we can all accept that a crime was committed. You still confuse determining individual responsibility with whether or not a crime was committed. A crime was committed. The marines Article 32 investigation established that. Period. The trial will determine individual crimes and the resultant punishment.

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#570436 --- 04/30/07 05:08 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
SJ,
When you discover 28 gunshot bodies with 5.6mm bullets in them, and the marines that were engaged in the area admit that they shot them, we can all accept that a crime was committed. You still confuse determining individual responsibility with whether or not a crime was committed. A crime was committed. The marines Article 32 investigation established that. Period. The trial will determine individual crimes and the resultant punishment.


We do NOT know a crime was commited. It was in a warzone, and you have said yourself you did not think it was "totally" the Marines fault. They have not been convicted...innocent til proven guilty.

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#570455 --- 04/30/07 06:18 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Family Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 4468
Loc: Seneca Falls
RS You hate America, admit it.

Well, you'll probably lie about it, won't you.

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#570482 --- 04/30/07 07:40 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Family Man]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
The Article 32 investigation concluded that there was a crime committed and there was sufficient evidence for the marines to be brought to trial. An Article 32 is the same as a grand jury. There was a crime. Who do what and which individuals are guilty of what will come out in the trials.

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#573506 --- 05/07/07 11:33 AM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
The only crime is you and people like you who jumped on the "GUILTY" bandwagon and tried to throw innocent Marines to the wolves for doing their freaking job.

You are among the lowest of the LOW, Rbser.


~
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#573510 --- 05/07/07 11:37 AM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: SkySoldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
I thought you were saying the massacre never happened? I thought you were saying it was all an insurgent plot? What is your position now, mf?

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#573526 --- 05/07/07 11:53 AM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
Same as it was. the Marines acted HONORABLY. Look it up. I know you have no idea of the concept of HONOR.






~
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#573533 --- 05/07/07 12:00 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: SkySoldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Right, that is what the squad leader said. He said that if faced with the same situation today he would make the same decisions he did then. However, all that means is that he thought killing women and children was honorable, not that it is. Obviously, mf, the USMC doesn't agree with either you or the Haditha massacre Marines which is why they are now proceeding with bringing them to trial.

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#573538 --- 05/07/07 12:01 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
That means the insurgents did the killing azzhole. And they used human shields.

Just like you would have IF you were ever in the infantry and we all know that is not so.





`
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#573551 --- 05/07/07 12:06 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: SkySoldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Well, you are wrong. Even the marines involved are not saying that.
The marines first said the civilians were killed in the IED explosion.
The marines than said that they were caught in a crossfire.
However, there is no evidence that the marines were fired upon, and since the killing was done inside the house and there were no insurgents present, how were the victims used as human shields?
No the defense the marines are being told to use, is that that acted the way they were trained to act, and it was the marine corps' fault for not training them properly. I can tell you, the marines need new lawyers. That defense not only won't fly, it will only make things worse.

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#573558 --- 05/07/07 12:07 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
No you are Wrong, AGAIN, lol you are nothing but a STOOGE for the FAR LEFAT LOONIES ...


There are tapes of the encounter at Hidatha. Audio and vidieo.

Come on down and I'll show them to you . ;-)
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#573563 --- 05/07/07 12:09 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: SkySoldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
No, show them to the Commandant of the Marine Corps. I am sure he has never seen them. If he had, he would not be proceeding with the case against the Haditha marines, but he is.
We have some loonies on this forum, you only have to look in the mirror. You've taken too many spills without a helmet.

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#573567 --- 05/07/07 12:10 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
He has seen them ,evil grin> And this case is as good as over.

All charges will be,as they should be, DISMISSED!





~
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#573610 --- 05/07/07 12:48 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: SkySoldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Petraeus 'concerned' by ethics report By BRIAN MURPHY, Associated Press Writer
28 minutes ago
NEW YORK - The top U.S. commander in Iraq said Monday he was "greatly concerned" by a recent survey that concluded many combat troops in Iraq would not report a member of their unit for killing or wounding an innocent civilian.
Speaking to the annual meeting of The Associated Press, Gen. David Petraeus called for a "redoubling of our education efforts" to identify potential abuses among soldiers and anticipate problems related to combat stress.

"We can never sink to the level of the enemy," Petraeus said by video link from Baghdad. "We have done that at times in theater and it has cost us enormously" — referring specifically to the torture and humiliation of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib facility west of Baghdad.

Petraeus said he was drafting a memo that would closer examine issues of battlefield ethics and ways pre-empt possible problems, adding that he was "greatly concerned by the results" of a Pentagon report last week by a special mental health advisory team assessing forces serving in Iraq.

"So the first step is that we've got ... make sure that folks remember that that's a foundation for our moral compass ... anything we do that violates that is done at considerable peril," he said.

The Pentagon report included a range of findings that pointed to potential violations of military codes and standards, including only 40 percent of Marines and 55 percent of Army soldiers interviewed saying they would report a member of their unit for killing or wounding an innocent civilian.

The survey also found that 47 percent of U.S. soldiers and 38 percent of Marines interviewed saying noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect; and 44 percent of Marines and 41 percent of soldiers said torture should be allowed to save the life of a soldier or Marine.

Petraeus also reiterated his belief that Iraq's long-term stability cannot be achieved through military means and requires political reconciliation from its main groups: the majority Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds. But he noted that the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki remains focused on "narrow agendas" standing the way of unity and crucial U.S.-backed legislation, such as a law to share Iraq's oil wealth.

He said he plans to deliver a report to President Bush in the first two weeks of September on the future direction of Iraq, including the U.S.-led effort to try to reclaim Baghdad from extremist factions.

The battles will "likely be harder in Iraq before it gets easier," Petraeus said just hours after two suicide car bombers attacked a market and a police checkpoint on the outskirts of Ramadi west of the capital — an area where Petraeus noted some success in marshaling Sunni tribes to help fight al-Qaida insurgents. At least 20 people were killed in the attacks.

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#573648 --- 05/07/07 02:43 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
PR a concern in Haditha killings
The U.S. military feared that news of the civilian slayings could incite insurgent propaganda.
The New York Times

Senior officers viewed the killings of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in late 2005 as a potential public relations problem that could fuel insurgent propaganda, recently unclassified documents suggest.

Col. R. Gary Sokoloski, a lawyer who served as chief of staff to Maj. Gen. Richard A. Huck, the division commander, approved a news release about the killings that investigators interviewing him in March 2006 suggested was “intentionally inaccurate” because it stated, contrary to the facts at hand, that the civilians had been killed by an insurgent’s bomb.

According to a transcript of the interview, Sokoloski told the investigators, “We knew the … strategic implications of being permanently present in Haditha and how badly the insurgents wanted us out of there.”

But he told them that he thought that the news release was accurate as written.

“At the time, given the information that was available to me and the objective to get that out for the press” before insurgents put out their own information, “that is what we went with.”

The documents also show that derailing enemy propaganda was important to senior Marine commanders, including Col. Stephen W. Davis, a regimental commander under Huck who played down questions about the civilian killings from a Time magazine reporter last year, long after the attacks and the civilian toll were clear to the military.

“Frankly, what I am looking at is the advantage he’s giving the enemy,” Davis said of the reporter, Tim McGirk, whose article in March 2006 was the first to report that Marines had killed civilians in Haditha, including women and children.

Four officers were charged with failing to properly investigate the killings. The first hearing against one of the officers, Capt. Randy W. Stone, is set for Tuesday in a military courtroom at Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Three enlisted Marines are charged with the killings. Their hearings are set to begin in the coming weeks.

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#573664 --- 05/07/07 04:01 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
Thanks to this officer's testimony, the defense team was able to present over one hundred classified exhibits, including video.

Lawyers for some of the accused told NewsMax that the officer's eight hour-long deposition will be made available to the defense in all the cases for use at the various Article 32 hearings which begin with Lt. Col. Chessani in May. Because most of it remains classified, it will be reviewed in private by the hearing officers and not revealed in the open hearings.

NewsMax, however, can reveal that the facts of what happened early that November morning clearly show that the incident was part of a planned ambush by insurgent forces, that the civilians tragically killed in the were used as human shields by the insurgents, and that despite claims by Rep. John Murtha, there was indeed an ongoing firefight between the Marines and the enemy.

In short, what the intelligence officer provided, was a fully backed up account that puts the listener at the scene of the action and takes him though the entire day's action. All of this information was made available to senior officers up the command ladder including the Battalion commander Lt. Col. Chessani.

It was so complete it eliminated any need for further investigation
_________________________
America has problems.

We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

Next time. Vote for the AMERICAN.


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#573681 --- 05/07/07 05:54 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: SkySoldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
It was so complete that the Marine Corps is going ahead with the hearings and their plans to prosecute.

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#573851 --- 05/08/07 07:49 AM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
It was so complete that the Marine Corps is going ahead with the hearings and their plans to prosecute.


Well, now why are they handing out all those immunities if they have a "rock solid" case? Explain please. \:\/

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#574041 --- 05/08/07 03:06 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
If I have to explain to you how the system works you are too dumb to understand.
If they were not going to charge anyone they would simply drop the case. Period, end of story. Obviously, having those that participated testify as to what went on is the best possible evidence. To get their testimony they offer them immunity against prosecution. It is an old, old strategy. You give up your case against a marginal individual to convict the ones who really committed the crime.

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#574057 --- 05/08/07 03:32 PM Re: Bombshell Cripples Case Against Haditha Marines [Re: Retired Soldier]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
If I have to explain to you how the system works you are too dumb to understand.
If they were not going to charge anyone they would simply drop the case. Period, end of story. Obviously, having those that participated testify as to what went on is the best possible evidence. To get their testimony they offer them immunity against prosecution. It is an old, old strategy. You give up your case against a marginal individual to convict the ones who really committed the crime.


YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN.

I bet you learned all that watching your "CSI" programs. \:\/

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