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#563986 --- 04/19/07 06:15 AM Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad
Retired Soldier Offline
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Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Soldiers building wall separating Sunnis, Shiites
Three-mile structure in Baghdad is a disputed part of security plan

By Joseph Giordono, and Monte Morin, Stars and Stripes


Mideast edition, Thursday, April 19, 2007



BAGHDAD — U.S. soldiers with the 82nd Airborne Division in a Baghdad district are “building a three-mile protective wall on the dividing line between a Sunni enclave and the surrounding Shiite neighborhood,” according to a U.S. military press release issued Wednesday.

Troops with the 407th Brigade Support Battalion began constructing the wall on April 10 and will continue work “almost nightly until the wall is complete,” the release read.

“The area the wall will protect is the largest predominately Sunni neighborhood in East Baghdad. Majority-Shiite neighborhoods surround it on three sides. Like other religiously divided regions in the city, the area has been trapped in a spiral of sectarian violence and retaliation,” according to the release.

In January, when the new Baghdad security plan and troop “surge” were announced, the “gated community” concept was reported by several news agencies as one tactic to be used.

But after a regularly scheduled news briefing in Baghdad on Wednesday, Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, the top spokesman for coalition forces in Iraq, said he was unaware of efforts to build a wall dividing Shiite and Sunni enclaves in Baghdad and said that such a tactic was not a policy of the Baghdad security plan.

“We have no intent to build gated communities in Baghdad,” Caldwell said Wednesday.

“Our goal is to unify Baghdad, not subdivide it into separate [enclaves].”

The subject of walling-off city districts has been a popular one among some ground troops now manning small combat outposts within city neighborhoods. Recently, commanders attached to the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, said they were investigating the possibility of constructing a security wall around a once-bustling industrial zone in New Baghdad, on the city’s east side. The wall, they said, would help them secure the area and aid in the revitalization of factories and industrial plants there.

However, Caldwell said that the Baghdad plan never envisioned large scale divisions of city districts. At most, he said, barriers would be used to protect city markets that might otherwise fall prey to suicide bombers, or to block off streets during specific operations. In this latter case, Caldwell said the barriers were removed after the completion of each mission.

“We have been going into neighborhoods and sealing off certain exit and entrance points during initial sweeps,” Caldwell said. “Those were temporary measures.”

Caldwell, however, said that U.S. and Iraqi forces would continue to erect permanent barriers around city marketplaces. So far, he said, coalition forces had erected more than 3,000 individual sections of concrete blast walls throughout the city since the plan went into effect two months ago. These barriers included both Jersey barriers — short concrete dividers commonly seen on roadways in the United States — and larger 20-foot blast walls that commonly surround bases and living areas.

According to Wednesday’s news release from Multi-National Corps-Iraq, “the wall [in Adhamiyah] is one of the centerpieces of a new strategy by coalition and Iraqi forces to break the cycle of sectarian violence. Planners hope the creation of the wall will help restore law and order by providing a way to screen people entering and exiting the neighborhood — allowing residents and people with legitimate business in, while keeping death squads and militia groups out.”

A similar effort by U.S. troops in south Baghdad was reported earlier this month by the Wall Street Journal.

“That community [in Adhamiyah] will be completely gated and protected,” Lt. Col. Thomas Rogers, 407th Brigade Support Battalion, was quoted as saying in the release. “It’s really for the security of all the people of Adhamiyah, not just one side or the other.”

According to military officials, the Adhamiyah wall should be completed in the next month.

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#564400 --- 04/19/07 06:41 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
SilverRose Offline
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Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
Florida has a wall? I thought that was the Mexico border....
_________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#564713 --- 04/20/07 09:30 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: SilverRose]
Retired Soldier Offline
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Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Gated communities to keep the residents safe from illegal immigrants and other undesirables.

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#565084 --- 04/20/07 09:37 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
SilverRose Offline
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Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
I believe there are gated communities in most states. It's more an 'elite' against the common folks... Criminals are indiscriminate...they come from all economic classes.
_________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#565220 --- 04/21/07 07:35 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: SilverRose]
Retired Soldier Offline
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Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
SR, you are right, but the majority of prisoners are black and from the lower classes...so you figure it out.
As Willy Sutton said, "Why do I rob banks. That's where the money is, stupid."
Violence is higher in the ghettos because of the drug dealers, but smart criminals rob rich folks rather than poor ones.


Edited by Retired Soldier (04/21/07 07:51 AM)

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#565285 --- 04/21/07 12:13 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
SilverRose Offline
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Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
For sure...rich folks, like banks, have the money. No point robbing the poor.
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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#565873 --- 04/22/07 04:47 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: SilverRose]
Retired Soldier Offline
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Registered: 12/23/05
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Maybe, it makes more sense in Florida.
Iraqi PM orders halt to Baghdad barrier By QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 17 minutes ago



Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Sunday that he has ordered a halt to the construction of a barrier that would separate a Sunni enclave from surrounding Shiite areas in Baghdad, saying there are other ways to protect the neighborhood.

The U.S. military announced last week that it was building a large concrete wall in the northern Azamiyah section of Baghdad in an effort to protect the minority Sunnis from attacks by Shiites living nearby.

The decision drew sharp criticism from residents and Sunni leaders who complained it would isolate their community.

In his first public comments on the issue, al-Maliki said he had ordered the construction to stop.

"I oppose the building of the wall and its construction will stop," al-Maliki told reporters during a joint news conference with the Secretary-General of the Arab League Amr Moussa in Cairo, Egypt. "There are other methods to protect neighborhoods."

He did not elaborate but added "this wall reminds us of other walls," in an apparent reference to the wall that divided the German city of Berlin during the Cold War.

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#565917 --- 04/22/07 06:14 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
SilverRose Offline
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Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
What I don't understand is why the different sects don't just naturally gravitate to separate areas where they are able to live peacefully with their neighbors. Good grief... Everyone swap places until everyone can get along with their neighbor - our country would have a fit, of course, and claim segregation, but at least some of the killing would stop.

What is the matter with these people that they have so much hatred? They're insane. I know that's a generalization, but thanks to our media coverage, all we hear about is the fighting...

I think the old adage is still true - divide and conquer. Whenever my children would fight, they both went to their rooms (separate by the time they were teens) and things quieted down automatically. Maybe the Mid-East needs a national time out...

I just shake my head at the situation - they are killing each other...and for what reason?


Edited by SilverRose (04/22/07 06:18 PM)
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The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#565923 --- 04/22/07 06:22 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: SilverRose]
Retired Soldier Offline
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Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
All of this was predicted, SR. George HW Bush was castigated for not invading Iraq during the '91 Gulf War. He and Secretary of State Baker each explained why they did not go in separate books.
None of this is a surprise. Rent Lawrence of Arabia. You'll understand better.

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#566052 --- 04/22/07 11:45 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: SilverRose]
AbuDhabi Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: SilverRose
I just shake my head at the situation - they are killing each other...and for what reason?


Because it's fun to hurt your enemy, but let's not get into that. There's more political mileage in blaming it on George Bush.
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"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#566053 --- 04/22/07 11:49 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
Rent Lawrence of Arabia. You'll understand better.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Spoken like a true idiot. "Watch the movie, it will make you smart."

Try *READING* The Seven Pillars of Wisdom by T.E. Lawrence if you want to be entertained. And there is lots of writing by serious ME scholars for anyone who wants to understand the history.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#566061 --- 04/23/07 02:07 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: AbuDhabi]
SilverRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
I don't think there is a movie or a book that explains cultural hatred. I've never understood the hatred between the Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland either.
_________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#566079 --- 04/23/07 04:01 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: SilverRose]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: SilverRose
I don't think there is a movie or a book that explains cultural hatred. I've never understood the hatred between the Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland either.


You have to look at their history. The original Protestants were English colonizers, and the Catholics were indigenous Irish. That's the root of today's Catholic-Protestant antipathy.

You'll find similar problems in the history of most ethnic rivalries.
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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#566220 --- 04/23/07 07:32 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: AbuDhabi]
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Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
On again or still off? Who's on First?

'Gated Communities' For the War-Ravaged
U.S. Tries High Walls and High Tech To Bring Safety to Parts of Baghdad

By Karin Brulliard
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, April 23, 2007; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- The U.S. military is walling off at least 10 of Baghdad's most violent neighborhoods and using biometric technology to track some of their residents, creating what officers call "gated communities" in an attempt to carve out oases of safety in this war-ravaged city.

The plan drew widespread condemnation in Iraq this past week. On Sunday night, Prime Minister Nouri-al Maliki told news services that he would work to halt construction of a wall around the Sunni district of Adhamiyah, which residents said would aggravate sectarian tensions by segregating them from Shiite neighbors. The U.S. military says the walls are meant to protect people, not further divide them in a city that is increasingly a patchwork of sectarian enclaves.



Boys play soccer near a blast wall in Baghdad's Karrada neighborhood. U.S. forces plan to erect walls and Jersey barriers around at least 10 districts. (By Wathiq Khuzaie -- Getty Images)

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The military sees a simple virtue in the barriers.

"If we keep the bad guys out, then we win," said 1st Lt. Sean Henley, 24, who works out of an outpost in southern Ghazaliyah, a Sunni insurgent stronghold on Baghdad's western edge that is among the first of the gated communities. The square-mile neighborhood of about 15,000 people now has one entrance point for civilian vehicles and three military checkpoints that are closed to the public.

In some sealed-off areas, troops armed with biometric scanning devices will compile a neighborhood census by recording residents' fingerprints and eye patterns and will perhaps issue them special badges, military officials said. At least 10 Baghdad neighborhoods are slated to become or already are gated communities, said Brig. Gen. John F. Campbell, the deputy commander of American forces in Baghdad.

The tactic is part of the two-month-old U.S. and Iraqi counterinsurgency plan to calm sectarian strife and is loosely modeled after efforts in cities such as Tall Afar and Fallujah, where the military says it has curbed violence by strictly controlling access. The gated communities concept has produced mixed results in previous wars -- including failure in Vietnam, where peasants were forcibly moved to fortified hamlets, only to become sympathizers of the insurgency.

Soldiers and military officials said that it was too early to evaluate the success of Baghdad's gated communities and that adjustments would be made according to results and residents' feedback, some of which has been negative. But they insisted the measure is worth a try in the city's bloodiest neighborhoods.

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#566255 --- 04/23/07 09:59 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
greenelf Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2956
Quote: Because it's fun to hurt your enemy,Nice jolly fun, eh Abu? Did you spend your childhood days on the playground pulling the wings off flies?BTW-rent "Lawrence of Arabia" anyway-it's a great film.

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#566398 --- 04/23/07 04:01 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: greenelf]
Retired Soldier Offline
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Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Apr 23, 2007, 13:51 GMT


Baghdad - The construction of a three-mile wall around a Sunni neighbourhood in Baghdad continued Monday, the military spokesman for the Iraqi government said, despite Premier Nuri al- Maliki's opposition to the plan.

BAGHDAD — The American ambassador said Monday the U.S. would "respect the wishes" of the Iraqi government after the prime minister ordered a halt to construction of a three-mile wall separating a Sunni enclave from surrounding Shiite areas in Baghdad.

Any plan to build "gated communities" to protect Baghdad neighborhoods from sectarian attacks was in doubt after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said during a visit to Sunni-led Arab countries that he did not want the 12-foot-high wall in Azamiyah to be seen as dividing the capital's sects.

However, confusion persisted about whether the plan would continue in some form: The chief Iraqi military spokesman said Monday the prime minister was responding to exaggerated reports about the barrier.

"We will continue to construct the security barriers in the Azamiyah neighborhood. This is a technical issue," Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi said. "Setting up barriers is one thing and building barriers is another. These are moveable barriers that can be removed."

Al-Moussawi noted similar walls were in place elsewhere in the capital — including in other residential neighborhoods — and criticized the media for focusing on Azamiyah.

Meanwhile, the American Commander assured Congress that everything is going ahead according to plan, nothing can go wrong, and not to worry, not to worry.

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#566598 --- 04/23/07 09:34 PM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: Retired Soldier]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Who's in charge? Who's on First. What's on Second. But, who's in charge?

Sunnis protest against Baghdad's 'prison wall'
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 24 April 2007
Residents of a Sunni enclave of Baghdad demonstrated and shouted slogans yesterday against a newly built wall sealing off their neighbourhood from the rest of the city.

About 2,000 people marched through al-Adhamiyah in east Baghdad carrying banners saying that their district was being turned into "a big prison".

There was confusion as the Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, said that the building of the wall must stop while the spokesman for the US-led security crackdown asserted that "construction of security barriers across Baghdad will continue without exception".

Inside al-Adhamiyah, the three-mile long wall under construction around the area was being compared with the walls built by Israel to surround and control Palestinian towns and villages on the West Bank.

"Adhamiyah will be isolated from all other areas," said one man in a cafe in the district. "We'll be like the Palestinians and we will not accept that."

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#566645 --- 04/24/07 04:49 AM Re: Hey, it works in Florida, so why not Baghdad [Re: greenelf]
AbuDhabi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 6474
Loc: Doha, Qatar
Originally Posted By: greenelf
Quote: Because it's fun to hurt your enemy,Nice jolly fun, eh Abu?


Sure, especially if you kill him.

Quote:
Did you spend your childhood days on the playground pulling the wings off flies?


There weren't enough flies in all of SF to satisfy my lust for fly murder and mutilation. I had to go out to Tyre once in a while to sate myself.

Howcum your quoting always looks wierd?
_________________________
"I have no known mental disorder ." -CCT

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