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#571676 --- 05/03/07 11:54 AM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
SJ, show me where I called all our soldiers punks. I was talking about the "punks" that were told by judges to enlist or they would go to jail. I was talking about McNamara's 100,000. I am talking about those being allowed to enlist today with below minimum test scores or criminal records because the Army cannot get enough volunteers that meet the minimum standards.

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#571679 --- 05/03/07 11:59 AM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Retired Soldier]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
SJ, show me where I called all our soldiers punks. I was talking about the "punks" that were told by judges to enlist or they would go to jail. I was talking about McNamara's 100,000. I am talking about those being allowed to enlist today with below minimum test scores or criminal records because the Army cannot get enough volunteers that meet the minimum standards.


Show me their "criminal records" and how bad they were. You don't know what those criminal records WERE. You keep trying to focus on that. But, you don't know these young men and women at all. You don't know if the military is just what they needed and put their all into. People change, RS. Unlike you. So in knocking these fine young men and women for their past mistakes and showing no faith in their military service, you are calling them punks by proxy...because you connect it back to the "punks of the draft". Yet, you call for another draft, you don't think "punks" (your word, not mine) will be enlisted then?

And before you say it, my son is not one of those who had no other direction to go in. He graduated in the top of his class, cum laude and could have chosen any college to go to. He had scholarships offered to him that he turned down to enlist in the military. His choice.


Edited by Strawberry Jam (05/03/07 12:00 PM)

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#571686 --- 05/03/07 12:06 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
You might keep in mind, there are a number of people on this forum with children, loved ones or friend's with loved ones in the military. You are insulting at best. Your hatred of Bush is clouding your judgement of those you claim to want to keep out of "harm's way" by ending this war, the ones you claim to support. But, yet, at every turn you put them down and use them as political pawns.

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#571693 --- 05/03/07 12:11 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
No, SJ, you go around looking for things to be upset about.
Earlier in this forum you were bragging about your son being at the top of his class and the high standards the Army has for enlistees. At that time you thought you had to be high school graduate to get in with no criminal record.
Are you now telling me you support lower standards? You support giving waivers for criminal records, low test scores, etc.? What is it you are trying to say?
With a draft the standards can be maintained. Only the best and brightest would be allowed in. Isn't that better?

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#571721 --- 05/03/07 01:29 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Retired Soldier]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
No, SJ, you go around looking for things to be upset about.
Earlier in this forum you were bragging about your son being at the top of his class and the high standards the Army has for enlistees. At that time you thought you had to be high school graduate to get in with no criminal record.
Are you now telling me you support lower standards? You support giving waivers for criminal records, low test scores, etc.? What is it you are trying to say?
With a draft the standards can be maintained. Only the best and brightest would be allowed in. Isn't that better?


What I am trying to say is you are an idiot and are continually putting down the troops.

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#571780 --- 05/03/07 04:04 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Show me where I ever put down the troops. I said they were given mission impossible and too few were deployed to accomplish the mission if it had been impossible. I said that they are so stretched thin that the Army needs to lower enlistment standards, enlist foreign troops, and give huge bonuses to try to maintain the force. I think the troops deserve better than that. Obviously, you disagree, but with what do you disagree? You can't explain yourself so you get mad at me. Childish.

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#571976 --- 05/03/07 11:36 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Retired Soldier]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Originally Posted By: Retired Soldier
Show me where I ever put down the troops. I said they were given mission impossible and too few were deployed to accomplish the mission if it had been impossible. I said that they are so stretched thin that the Army needs to lower enlistment standards, enlist foreign troops, and give huge bonuses to try to maintain the force. I think the troops deserve better than that. Obviously, you disagree, but with what do you disagree? You can't explain yourself so you get mad at me. Childish.


I explained myself. YOU are the one playing childish games. Am I mad at you? I dont feel mad. I disagree with you on many points. One would be calling ANY military person a "punk". Another would be calling our service members not so bright. Hugge bonuses? THEY should get huge bonuses for re-enlisting. They SHOULD get better pay.

Bu8t, you play your childish games of "I didnt say that...", but you did, you are just being coy. Many people see through your trying to cover up for the crap you spew on here.

But mad at you, naw....I do not have the time or the energy to be mad at you. If I had to put some kind of emotion on it, I would most likely call it "pity". Because you soooo need to be "right" about this, "right" about that that you cannot see the truth in front of you. You fail at that each time.
I pity you that you need to be so aggressive on a public forum to people you do not even know, all in the course of bein..."right". Pity, that is it. Who made you this way, RS?

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#572446 --- 05/04/07 08:26 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Step 2: Decide if you're ready

Eligibility Basics
Eligibility rules can be a little confusing. There are different rules for enlisting and for officer programs.

Enlisting: Enlisted members do the hands-on work of the military. They need at least a high school degree (a GED may or may not suffice).

Officer: Officers are the managers of the military. Most officer programs require a college degree at minimum, and are very competitive. Many officers have master's or higher degrees.

Before you visit your local recruiter, be sure you meet the minimum qualifications for serving in the U.S. Armed Forces. Some qualifications are required by all five services:

You must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien.
You must be at least 17 years old (17-year old applicants require parental consent).
You must (with very few exceptions) have a high school diploma.
You must pass a physical medical exam.
For each branch, there are slightly different enlistment requirements:

http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step02_eligibility,,00.html

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#572447 --- 05/04/07 08:30 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Step 7: Complete the process

Law Disqualifications
Each applicant must meet rigorous moral character standards. In addition to the initial screening by the recruiter, an interview covering each applicant's background is conducted at the MEPS. For some individuals, a financial credit check and/or a computerized search for a criminal record is conducted. Some types of criminal activity are clearly disqualifying; other cases require a waiver, wherein the Service examines the applicant's circumstances and makes an individual determination of qualification. Moreover, applicants with existing financial problems are not likely to overcome those difficulties on junior enlisted pay. Consequently, credit histories may be considered as part of the enlistment decision.

Basically, the more you do and/or the more severe the crimes, the less likely you will be able to get in. If you are looking for a job with a high-level security clearance, any crimes whatsoever are bad news. As for credit trouble, avoid it: you will not be making tons of money in the military (at first anyway)!

Legal and financial events in your past can be waivered, but you need to mention them to your recruiter! Remember, there is no penalty for talking about your past with a recruiter. Things are always kept confidential. Read on to find out more about how run-ins with the law can affect your joining the military.

Here is what the military officially has to say about moral standards of enlistment:
Persons entering the Armed Forces should be of good moral character. The underlying purpose of moral character enlistment standards is to minimize entrance of persons who are likely to become disciplinary cases or security risks or who disrupt good order, morale, and discipline. Moral standards of acceptability for service are designed to disqualify the following kinds of persons:
Individuals under any form of judicial restraint (bond, probation, imprisonment, or parole).
Those with significant criminal records.
Persons convicted of felonies may request a waiver to permit their enlistment. The waiver procedure is not automatic, and approval is based on each individual case. One of the considerations in determining whether a waiver will be granted is the individual's ability to adjust successfully to civilian life for a period of time following his or her release from judicial control.
In processing waiver requests, the Military Services shall require information about the "who, what, when, where, and why" of the offense in question; and a number of letters of recommendation attesting to the applicant's character or suitability for enlistment. Such letters must be from responsible community leaders such as school officials, ministers, and law enforcement officials.
Those who have been previously separated from the Military Services under conditions other than honorable or for the good of the Service.
Those who have exhibited antisocial behavior or other traits of character that would render them unfit to associate with military personnel.
Examples of potentially disqualifying legal situations:

Civil Court Convictions/Dispositions waivers (other than a felony)

Disqualification--A waiver is required for any applicant who has--

1. Received a civil court conviction or other adverse dispositions for six or more minor traffic offenses where the fine was $100 or more per offense.
2. Received three or more civil convictions or other adverse dispositions for minor nontraffic offenses.
3. Received 2, 3, or 4 civil convictions or other adverse dispositions for a misdemeanor offense.
4. Received a total of three civil convictions or other adverse dispositions for a combination of minor non traffic and misdemeanor (1 misdemeanor and 2 minor non traffic).
5. Has received 1 conviction or adverse disposition for a DUI/DWI
6. Any offense with a fine of $100 or more, excluding court cost and including traffic offenses.
7. Any offense where confinement was ordered, regardless of suspended sentence or deferred disposition.
8. Any offense regardless of disposition (other than "not guilty") that involve contributing to the delinquency of a minor, spouse or child abuse and any sex related crime. Also any offense under chapter 4 that is listed as a misdemeanor.

Felony/DUI/DWI/convictions/dispositions

A waiver is required for any applicant who has--

1. Received a conviction or other adverse disposition for a felony offense.
2. Received two convictions or adverse dispositions for driving while intoxicated, under the influence, or while impaired due to substance abuse, alcohol, drugs, or any other condition that affected judgment or driving ability. Consider without regard to technical/legal definition or term used by the State, county, or country in which the applicant committed the offense.
3. Applicants who have entered a plea of "Nolo Contendere" that was accepted by the court despite later processing in the same case to permit dismissal, expungement, amnesty, pardon, or clemency based on any of the following are considered to have a conviction:
Absence of later violations.
Evidence of rehabilitation.
Satisfactory completion of a period probation or parole.
4. Any other legal appeal that does not change the original finding on its own merit.
5. Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment unless-
The condition is removed by the same or higher authority imposing sentence.
The condition is removed by virtue of expired period of sentence.
The condition is over 12 months from imposition and the court, city, county, or State no longer obligates the applicant to this condition.

http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step07_DQ_law,,00.html

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#573051 --- 05/06/07 01:58 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Strawberry Jam]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Maybe its time for the military to focus on recruiting people who are a little older and offer real life experiences. Maybe a 40 year old whos currently doing a job now that the military has use for, they should be looking to bring this person on. If it pays better the military may have the niche to fill some areas.

Instead of lowering standards the military should be looking for higher candidates.
_________________________
Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#573414 --- 05/07/07 12:48 PM Re: Pay soars to keep people in military [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
The Army has already raised the enlistment age to over 40. But recruits that age are not suitable to be light weapons infantrymen running around Iraq, especially with all the armor and equipment they need to carry and the long hours.
You want young, naive soldiers who think (as all young people do) that nothing will happen to them and that they are immortal.
Soldiering is a young person's job. When you recuit older people for the administrative jobs you remove those opportunities for the younger soldiers to stay in the service and transfer.
Soldiering is an honor and a privilege. However, very few today consider it that. They have been all too happy to put yellow ribbons on their SUVs for other people's kids, but they have not wanted to send their kids to war.

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