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#544501 --- 03/19/07 02:23 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: bluezone]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
LOL I don't have any problems. Everything is going great, thank you.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#545316 --- 03/20/07 03:54 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: dwarren]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=573490&category=STATE&newsdate=3/20/2007

Albany Times Union

Gambling compact is on the line
Oneida leader, Spitzer meet after learning agreement is under review

By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau

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#546536 --- 03/22/07 07:58 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State

Oneida leader opposes sharing casino proceeds %%by%%By Glenn Coin
Thursday, March 22, 2007
By Glenn Coin %%ehead%% %%bodybegin%%%%bodybegin%%Staff writer
Staff writer %%eby%%The Oneida Indian Nation should not have to pay - literally - for the mistakes of state officials, nation leader Ray Halbritter said Wednesday.
The federal Department of Interior said last week it will reconsider its 1993 approval of the Oneidas' Turning Stone casino because state courts have ruled that the agreement allowing the casino to open was never approved by the state Legislature.
In his first public remarks since the announcement, Halbritter said it's a state problem.
"If the leaders of the state of New York did not put the proper people in the room to make the deal, why should we as Oneida people pay for that mistake?" Halbritter said during a speech in Utica before Leadership Mohawk Valley's annual Follow the Leader awards dinner. "If it's their mistake, why shouldn't they correct it?"
The Interior Department gave the Oneidas and Gov. Eliot Spitzer until April 30 to either start negotiating a new agreement or plead their cases about why the agreement should be upheld or overturned.
State leaders and the citizens group that brought the lawsuit that led to the Interior Department announcement say they want the Oneidas to pay a share of proceeds from Turning Stone, just as the Senecas and Mohawks do with their casinos.
Those tribes have agreed to pay 25 percent of slot machine revenues; a similar percentage from Turning Stone could equal$30 million to $40 million a year.
The 1993 Turning Stone agreement required the Oneidas to pay nothing. Halbritter suggested that the Oneidas do not intend to start paying now.
"We're one nation that doesn't plan to let (state officials) wiggle out of their agreement," Halbritter said. "Paying something means something to us. It changes our history. It changes who we are."
Halbritter declined to answer questions from The Post-Standard.



Opinion: Oh boy, here we go again, another round of law suits. If the State has the moxie they will correct this "problem" of theirs and TS either will pay their dues or close up. We will see what we will see.


How does paying taxes to support roads, schools, and other government functions change the history of the Oneida?

Those of you inviting the tribes to come into our community are also inviting years of law suits, arguments over crossing your t's and dotting your i's. That will cost money, money, money and erode any money paid by the tribes to the municipalities. That money the tribes and your government spend to defend these suits will be your money that you lose at the casino to fund their attempts to circumvent every law they disagree with.

Another BS move by Spitzer, asking the tribes to share sales tax revenues. Why? To appease them? Bull! Every merchant in the state should bring a law suit and ask for half of the sales tax revenue they collect to be returned to them if this goes through.

Stop the nonsense, congress should get off their butts and amend laws, enact new ones if necessary to end this assualt on this area and other areas across the state and nation.


(boy, I should have used spell check before posting this. I corrected a ton of errors, that is it. Any more will stay there)



Edited by grinch (03/22/07 08:11 AM)

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#546541 --- 03/22/07 08:24 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
I spoke of law suits in my post above, here is a sampling from today's Indianz.com This is what you can expect in the future.


There is no end to this unless congress steps in and stops it. It is doubtful they ever will as long as the contributions to their campaign funds keep rolling in

http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2007/001985.asp

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001967.asp

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001983.asp

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001980.asp

http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2007/001984.asp

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001968.asp

And here is what happens when you allow racism to rule decisions of governments:
http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001986.asp

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#546561 --- 03/22/07 09:30 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
"There is no end to this unless congress steps in and stops it. It is doubtful they ever will as long as the contributions to their campaign funds keep rolling in"

BINGO!!!

There are plenty of crooked indians, politicians and lawyers to keep this going forever!!! You right, if congress was to fix it, their money supply would dry up!!!
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I'm Justaxme, and I approved this message.

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#546764 --- 03/22/07 03:03 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
Spitzer will be rolled over so much he'll like like a pig over a BBQ spit. It was easy for him to beat up on big corporation and drive them out of NY. Now he's dealing with REAL CROOKS AND THIEVES and I don't believe he can handle it.
_________________________
I'm Justaxme, and I approved this message.

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#547082 --- 03/23/07 07:14 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: justaxme]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Rep Arcuri is quoted as follows. I recently sent an email that urges him to reconsider his position. Here is his web site for anyone wishing to express their view.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/mailapp/


From FL One News:
Arcuri Urging Settlement In Oneida Land Trust Claim

Congressman Michael Arcuri Thursday called for an agreement to reach a settlement of issues surrounding the Oneida Indian Nation of New York's land into trust application. Arcuri in a letter to Governor Eliot Spitzer, Oneida Indian Nation Representative Ray Halbritter, and Oneida County Executive Anthony Picente, called for the parties to work together to develop a settlement plan. Arcuri wants that plan to address each party's concerns while protecting upstate's economy. Arcuri says he's concerned by the potential for a loss of jobs in the area if an agreement can't be reached. The US Department of the Interior has set a deadline for new gaming compact negotiations relating to the Turning Stone Casino in Verona, which is operated by the Oneidas


Email sent today to:

Rep Arcuri:

Please look carefully at any proposal you support relative to the Oneida Indians, or other Indian Tribes in NYS as well as the nation. Consider the implications of putting land into trust, in essence expanding the holdings of Indian Governments. By supporting tribes and allowing them to take more land off the tax roles weakens local governmental control and eventually will weaken the Union. Patchwork sovereignty where none existed before will become a nightmare.

There has never been trust land in NYS, the law was not designed for the original 13 Colonies.

I urge you to reconsider your position calling for support of negotiations with the tribes in light of recent Supreme Court decisions that put an end to Indian Land Claims. There is no basis for land claims of these tribes since the Sherrill and Cayuga decisions, what is there to negotiate?

I remain convinced that allowing gambling and evasion of taxes by one group, creating a monopoly based on race is against the constitution and was not their intention when it was written.

Support of this venture, in defiance or manipulation of established law is at best a band aid solution. Congress should end this travesty, and do it soon. You would be better advised to support legislation that will curtail reservation shopping.

It is a weak, lame excuse that Turning Stone creates jobs and by closing it will weaken the economy. Turning Stone has been illegal since the beginning and allowed to grow and fester with little or no governmental intervention. No other entity, race or person would have been allowed to open a business that is not legal under NYS Law.

There is more at stake here than money and jobs.

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#547117 --- 03/23/07 09:00 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
justaxme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: On top?
The letter sent by UCE's attorney Neil Murray, Esq in response to Deputy Solicitor Jensen's letter to Governor Spitzer and Ray Halbritter is available at:

http://www.upstate-citizens.org/UCE-DOI-Letter-032107.pdf

Great letter!!! It started when Mario Cuomo was arrogant enough to believe he was king of NY and waived his magic wand and made gambling legal without anyone elses consent. It's been a joke ever since. If it was a tax paying NYS/US citizen wanting to start a casino, we would have been squahed like a bug and it would never happened. But you get two people together, politicians and indians, one with money and the other that needs money and crime and corruption take place. I can't believe we keep voting these crooks back into office.


Edited by justaxme (03/23/07 09:01 AM)
_________________________
I'm Justaxme, and I approved this message.

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#547335 --- 03/23/07 03:35 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: justaxme]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
The letter from Neil Murray Esq. UCE's attorney is quite informative.

I am disappointed a copy of that letter was not sent to our Federal Representatives, namely Arcuri, other representatives and our two Senators.

If Dan Warren reads this, I would suggest they be included in your list of recipients.

It may be worthwhile to check the various web sites naming political donors and to whom those donations were made. While donations are legal, they can be revealing as to whom they are most likley to show a bias.

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#547341 --- 03/23/07 03:51 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Old news but sheds some insight on one of the reasons Eliot Spitzer has not forced the Oneida to obey NYS Law This is worth a reread.

Suozzi questions Spitzer's ties to lobbyist

BY MICHAEL ROTHFELD
Newsday Staff Writer

June 8, 2006

Nassau County Executive Thomas Suozzi suggested yesterday that Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, his Democratic opponent for governor, has not taken action against an upstate casino that is operating illegally because of his political ties to a prominent Albany lobbyist.

Patricia Lynch Associates, one of the state's most successful lobbying firms, has a $10,000-a-month contract with the Oneida Indian Nation, the operator of Turning Stone Resort & Casino.

Lynch, her husband and her firm have given Spitzer a combined $49,500 in campaign contributions since 2003, according to records cited by Suozzi, while she raised $174,000 for him from other donors. Suozzi, at a Manhattan news conference, said "the question could be asked" whether Lynch has influenced Spitzer.

"She represents the Turning Stone Casino," Suozzi said. "And Eliot Spitzer is not moving against the Turning Stone Casino, despite the fact that the law is clear on the issue, and he has always said, 'You must enforce the law.'"

Christine Anderson, Spit- zer's campaign spokeswoman, denied that Lynch had affected the attorney general's stance. "Eliot took on Merrill Lynch. Do you think he's afraid of Pat Lynch?" Anderson said, referring to his fraud case against the investment house.

Lynch did not respond to a request for comment.

Turning Stone, which opened in 1993, has been found by state courts as recently as last month to be illegal because state lawmakers never ratified the compact signed by former Gov. Mario Cuomo.

Spitzer said last month he would consider legal steps in conjunction with Gov. George Pataki. Pressed last week as to what he would do as governor, Spitzer said, "Nobody is going to immediately move to close a business that is ... employing thousands of people."

The casino employs more than 4,000 people.

Anderson also said the federal government has primary jurisdiction.

Suozzi himself hired Lynch as a lobbyist for Nassau in 2002. She terminated the contract in 2003 after he began attacking state Democrats, alienating Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver (D-Manhattan), for whom she had previously been chief of staff. Silver is a key supporter of Spitzer.
Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc

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#547392 --- 03/23/07 06:05 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
Originally Posted By: grinch
The letter from Neil Murray Esq. UCE's attorney is quite informative.

I am disappointed a copy of that letter was not sent to our Federal Representatives, namely Arcuri, other representatives and our two Senators.

If Dan Warren reads this, I would suggest they be included in your list of recipients.

It may be worthwhile to check the various web sites naming political donors and to whom those donations were made. While donations are legal, they can be revealing as to whom they are most likley to show a bias.



Our federal delegation are being provided copies of the letter as well as members of the U.S. Senate Committee on Indian Affairs.

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#547629 --- 03/24/07 09:33 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: dwarren]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Dan, thank you they should recieve that letter. They know all that information, or at least they should know it. The letter will serve as a reminder others are aware of what has transpired and the various laws that regulate these ventures and they are being watched closely.

There are still many of us who demand equality and adherence to the letter of the law. If those laws conflict with what politicians and tribes want to accomplish, change the law. Until that is done those in politics, law enforcement and other appointed or elected positions of authority are charged with upholding and enforcing existing law.

To do anything else exposes us all to graft and corruption.

Enough is enough, obey the law or work to have it changed.


Edited by grinch (03/24/07 09:43 AM)

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#548715 --- 03/26/07 06:14 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Mohawk Catskill Casino deal - may be down the tubes. LOL

Spitzer is proving himself to be just as inept, arrogant and ignorant as King George and it didn't take him long to get there. While King George didn't think he needed a legislature to pass laws and would make announcements like he had settled the Cayuga Indian Land Claim for a dollar and a dream - er rather a Catskill casino.

Spitzer isn't doing any better. He made the same announcement with a different tribe, the Mohawks. He "settled" the Mohawk Land Claim for a similar casino deal in the Catskills. But, identical to the Cayuga, he never stopped to think that their chiefs needed Council approval. Without that, the BIA would have trashed the deal anyway and, in the meantime - Spitzer may well have relinquished state sovereignty in a heartbeat for a trust land Indian reservation in the Catskills and no casino deal. Trust land has to be approved FIRST. The DOI even sent the Governor a letter to this effect last year. Once it's trust land, it's trust land, it doesn't go back - casino or no casino.

On top of that, rather than merely do what the judge TOLD this so called attorney to do and issue tax coupons to the tribes to implement the sales tax law, he's offering to give the tribes the sales tax money they collect from non-Indians. OK - without going further I ask - is this fool ALSO agreeing to give the tribes the COUNTIES sales tax monies AS WELL????

While I don't agree with their position, I do totally respect the Mohawks for standing up for their beliefs and principles. That's a trainload more respect than I have ever had for ANY NYS Governor.
________________________
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070325/OPINION/703250321/-1/OPINION04

Not all Mohawks agree with tax concession for casino
By Doug George-Kanentiio

March 25, 2007
Not all Mohawks, not even a majority, support a Monticello casino if the last public meeting at the St. Regis Tribal Council is any indication.

Confronted by the hostile crowd, tribal officials on March 3 denied that the casino deal was tied to a Feb. 17 taxation agreement with Gov. Spitzer. That agreement will give the state the authority to collect taxes from tobacco wholesalers prior to delivery to an Indian retailer and compel the tribe to acknowledge the jurisdiction of the state over any and all disputes.

The Akwesasne Mohawks have dozens of businesses and employ hundreds of workers. They all benefit from their tax-free status because they are located on Indian territory, which is by treaty and custom exempt from state laws of any kind.

Our Mohawk people insist our reservation is outside the boundaries of the state, and when they read a line in the agreement that stated, quite plainly, that Akwesasne was "within" New York, they were infuriated.

Tribal officials were accused of everything from treason to stupidity. But what was most important for the residents of Sullivan County was the claim that Spitzer pressured the tribe to agree to pay taxes to the state as a prerequisite to the Monticello deal.

On March 13, Spitzer affirmed his determination to collect state taxes on the sale of tobacco to non-Natives on Indian lands. He did so without consulting the Iroquois and in a manner that is certain to provoke resistance.

The Mohawk retailers know they cannot survive in their current state if they have to adhere to state regulations. We realize an agreement to pay taxes undermines our status as a distinct society and will result in critical job losses.

But the lure of casino riches has caused many a wise person to do truly dumb things. Signing away our status as Iroquois nations is one of them.

From a historical perspective, the Monticello casino deal is a bad one. The Mohawk Nation never had claims in Sullivan County. Our southern boundary was fixed at the east branch of the Delaware River. We'd have no right to Indian status there.

For many of us it has come to a simple equation: Casinos equals taxes equals state jurisdiction.

What's ahead for Spitzer are acts of defiance he is ill-prepared to handle. His steamrollering tactics will not work in this situation. He needs to demonstrate tact and diplomacy, beginning with a retreat from his tax collection threat. He needs to meet with the Iroquois collectively and work out a plan that reduces current state expenditures on Indians by having our governments pay their own way. This can only be done if we have a stable economy, which the Spitzer tax will destroy.

If Spitzer presses the tax issue, the Monticello casino will not happen. Tribal officials now realize that paying state taxes on the reservation will kill the casino deal.

The hostility to the Feb. 17 tax agreement was enough to cause one tribal official to reject the contract outright and compel another to send a letter to Spitzer stating his opposition to the deal.

All of this is ominous news for the casino advocates in Sullivan County. A Mohawk casino in Monticello? Don't bet on it.

Doug George-Kanentiio, Akwesasne Mohawk, is a co-founder of the Native American Journalists Association and a columnist for News From Indian Country. His e-mail address is Kanentiio@aol.com

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#549009 --- 03/27/07 08:37 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
The Onondaga land claim is winding its way through the court system. What do you think the chances are it will survive the first hearing?


My thoughts: The ruling in the Cayuga claim will prevail and they will dismiss this action. The Supreme Court ruling in the Cayuga matter may be the reason the Federal Govt has not intervened on behalf of the Onondagas. If they do step in, this claim will drag on for another year or two before it is dismissed.



Finger Lakes News Network

<< Back to the News Page
Hearing In Onondaga Land Claim Adjourned

A hearing on a motion to dismiss the Onondaga Indian Nation's land claim has been adjourned. The hearing -- set for Wednesday in federal court in Albany -- has been pushed back three months to June 19th to give the Onondagas more time to persuade the United States to join in the suit. New York state is seeking dismissal of the claim, arguing that the state is immune under the U-S Constitution from such lawsuits unless the United States is a plaintiff. The U-S Justice Department has yet to intervene as a plaintiff
in the Onondaga case. The Onondagas have asked the court to declare that New York illegally acquired roughly four-thousand square miles in five treaties between 1788 and 1822. The tribe is seeking legal title to a swath of upstate New York up to 40 miles wide stretching from Pennsylvania to Canada, including the cities of Syracuse, Oswego, Fulton, Watertown, Cortland and Binghamton.


Edited by grinch (03/27/07 08:38 AM)

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#549227 --- 03/27/07 05:01 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Well Grinch, it all depends. If the feds don't intervene, the Onondaga don't have a case. State sovereign immunity holds water just as well as tribal, actually better. BUT, that wouldn't mean it's dead. The feds could agree to join as plaintiff at ANY time, even a hundred years from now.

This might not be an election year, but in the Presidential race, it's close enough. Remember, the DOJ is part of the Executive branch. The feds are SERIOUSLY trying to DUMP the trust relationship with the tribes.

The Cobell case - initiated in 1996, with many more like it in line, have "basically" won their case. This is for missmanagement of Indian trust assets and the feds are guilty as hell. We're not talking 200 years here, the time frames are realistic. However, the case is still in the appeals court, which "urged" the parties to make a "settlement" when the feds choked on the $27 Billion price tag last summer. The DOJ urged Congress to make a deal. McCain threw out an $8 Billion offer in legislation, which the DOJ picked up on two weeks ago and made an offer of $8 Billion with a phase out of the trust relationship over ten years. The offer was refused.

Sorry to get what appears to be sidetracked, but this has a lot to do with the feds backing off from representing the tribes. Timing is everything. The Onondaga played the wait and see game and discovered they weren't going to win any land grab when the Cayuga case went down. So, they're using a different strategy which may have actually worked if that was used in the initial lawsuits by the other tribes. But now the timing is off - I doubt that the feds will intervene.

One must remember, the Oneida LOST their six million acre lawsuit and there is a LOT of information in that suit which would dismiss the existing lawsuit - well, if Spitzer wasn't for sale for a dollar and a dream. The fact it was an aboriginal claim and required no compensation may have been a dismissal ruling, but like many other cases, the merits have not been argued at the higher level courts.

Their [Oneida] "precedent" lawsuit was for two years rent of 841 acres of unoccupied county lands. One should be wary of a "precedent" lawsuit by the Onondaga, which their present one may just be.

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#549233 --- 03/27/07 05:09 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Thank you. We will see what we will see.

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#549948 --- 03/28/07 11:03 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
This article below is typical of many, but the reply to the article, posted below the article is awesome. By the way - this is in Canada http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Harris_Michael/2007/03/23/3812370.html

Natives Left Out Again March 23, 2007

For a man who likes to lecture the Chinese on social justice and human rights, Stephen Harper has brought down a strange budget.

When Chief Angus Toulouse walked into the CFRA studio this week to react to the federal budget on behalf of the Assembly of First Nations, he had the air of a shell-shocked soldier.

The hope of Kelowna had been supplanted by the cold arithmetic of Stephen Harper's political calculations. In that world, the people who mattered came from Ontario, Quebec and Alberta, not Oka, Membertou, or Eskasoni.

The budget spoke of supporting families, seniors and needy provinces, but not Native families, Native seniors or desperately poor reserves. Once again, the confirming handshake of a New Deal for Native people, this time known as the Kelowna Accord, turned into wind blowing through grass.

Now Stephen Harper is disputing that there ever was a formal deal made between the federal government, the provinces and Canada's indigenous peoples that binds his government.

Chief Toulouse found it particularly galling that Jim Prentice, now the minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, had once declared that Native poverty was the most serious social crisis in the country and that the Conservative party intended to address it. He spoke those words while endorsing the Kelowna Accord and its $5-billion package to bring medical services, education, and infrastructure to Canada's often isolated reserves. Of course, in those days, Mr. Prentice was an opposition MP full of idealism, resolve and compassion. Now he has power -- and a different story.

With just enough money to sustain "the misery" as Phil Fontaine put it, Chief Toulouse told me that the next act in this national disgrace may well unfold at the barricades manned by youthful Natives tired of the duplicity, obfuscations and lies of the federal government. I could almost hear the vitriolic e-mails piling up in my computer, accusing Natives of loutishness, bellicosity, a refusal to adapt to the modern world, and a towering sense of entitlement.

One man wrote that he had worked with Natives all his life and was "tired of babysitting them." Why all the "handouts" to a people who refused to work? His answer? Cut them off completely and "quit crying about what happened years ago."

Would he say that, I wondered, to a Jew, a Black, or a PoW? Even stranger, he didn't bother to say exactly what did happen all those years ago. Bigots rarely do. What happened is that we stole an entire continent from indigenous peoples without compensation and then consigned them to ghettos where we decided how they would live, unless, of course, they decided to be like us. Then there were residential schools where they could be beaten and brainwashed into assimilation.

Everywhere else in the world, human beings cling to the land with striking ferocity when they consider it theirs and their passion is understood. Consider Israel, Palestine, the divided Ireland, Taiwan, and yes, Canada too. But when it is Native people trying to enforce their claim to the land, and doing so under the terms of the proclamation of 1763, they are lazy, ungrateful troublemakers.

Walking home after the day was done I looked up at the Parliament buildings, standing imposingly on Algonquin land and a sacred site at that. It seemed singularly graceless, I thought, to deal the Natives out of the budget when you were 140 years behind in your rent.


The url and reply below covers all the bases and I couldn't have said it better myself.
http://warwicknews.blogspot.com/2007/03/leftard-of-day-michael-harris-ottawa.html

Friday, March 23, 2007
Leftard of the Day: Michael Harris, Ottawa Sun

Rarely do I read a column by Michael Harris which doesn't make me despise the man even more and this one is no different.

This guy is everything I hate about snotty leftards who are too stupid to know that what they claim is fact is no more fact than fairy tale. Just because you have a delusion doesn't mean that reality will morph itself to suit your opinion.

I am sick to death of idiots like this guy.

Natives are not starved of cash from the federal pimp daddy. The dept. of Indian affairs (or whatever they call it now) spends more than $16,000 for every man, woman and child living on the reserves. Add to this all the other transfers and spending and it should be clear to anyone with an IQ higher than a retard that money is not the issue. The system itself is the problem. To fix this problem, we have to back up a whole bunch of steps to correct Mikey's delusional sense of the past.

First off, I refer to anyone who throws around the "racist" slur against anyone who questions the wisdom of throwing more money at a failure of a system an asshole. Yes Mikey, I think you're an asshole for your attacks at anyone who dares question your "wisdom."

I'm sick of people like you. You and people who share your mindset infest the media like maggots on a steaming pile of shit. You pretend that since you claim some fairy tale to be true that it becomes fact. You assume that anyone who questions your fairy tales to have belligerent motives allowing you to disregard those who would debate you on the merits (or lack thereof) of your delusions. Your snotty attitude is insufferable. I can tolerate stupid people so long as they realise they are stupid and don't claim to know more than everyone else. I can't tolerate stupid people who think they're fricken geniuses.

First off, when Europeans came here they certainly displaced the natives and took over. Why is this considered an unforgivable injustice? Is this somehow out of the ordinary? Is this an ahistoric event? Only a fool would think so.

"Natives" or "Indians" or whatever PC label they have this week are not a homogeneous population. They are a collection of competing groups or "tribes" in the same way we have the tribes of Europe, Africa, Asia and everywhere else on earth. Second, boarders and land are not static anywhere. Europe and its various groups are not the same now than they were even 50 years ago, never mind thousands.

In Ontario, the Hurons were conquered by the Iroquois before the Europeans took over from the Iroquois. So then why are we paying the Iroquois for the land that isn't indigenous to them and if fact, was stolen from the Hurons? This competition and displacement is as common here as it was everywhere else. Natives are not different than the rest of humanity. But you see where this leads? Who owns the land? Who has "rights" to it? The quick and easy is that we all do.

I am as "native" to this land as a Huron or Iroquois. Why? I was born here and this is my home. To state that I am not because I don't share a race with the Huron or other "tribe" is the racism. You, Michael, are the racist here - not me. You, Michael, are the one in favour of apartheid in Canada - not me. The historical injustice wasn't that there are Europeans here but that the natives were kept apart from them. The injustice was that they were not assimilated into the Canadian population like every other group since then. This is what happens when cultures merge. It happened when the Saxons were taken over by the Normans. It happened when the Zulus ventured south and colonized all the lands of southern Africa displacing and enslaving the "native" tribes. It happened until the Europeans were too racist to assimilate the natives they colonized. It isn't the colonization that was the problem but the separation afterwards. Britain has been "colonized" many times over. There is no issue with this because everyone was assimilated. There are no Druids or Vikings or Saxons or Romans or Normans in Briton today - just Britons. The problem is that assimilation of the natives didn't happen here. I don't mean total assimilation. The Irish in Canada still have a sense of their history and culture as the Chinese do, the Somalis do, the Chileans do... The natives can keep their sense of history without the destructive social pathologies that lead from segregation.

The root of the "native's" problem is that they were not granted equal citizenship then and are not required to live by the same rules as everyone else now. A racist "treaty" that sets up different systems of governance and rights based on race is Apartheid and it was wrong in South Africa and it's wrong here, too. Further, it does the "natives" more of a disservice here than it ever will to the taxpayers who are charged with the untenable financial responsibility of perpetuating a racist regime at great public expense. The root of native misery is their enfeeblement and reliance on the government instead of themselves.

Natives have been poisoned by the lies of their leaders as much as the lies of our government (and the enablers of lies known as journalists and professors who shill their myths and their forked-tongue lies to the next generations.) The natives have been told that they are owed something, that they lost something and that their plight is not their responsibility but those of another race. Sounds much like a lot of other grievance mongers. You mention the Jews but a more appropriate analogy would have been the Palestinians and their monstrous leadership. The root of Palestinian suffering is their leaders, their Mullahs and their Arab neighbours compounded by a criminal education system that teaches racist, anti-Semitic hate (generously funded by Canadian Aid money...)

Make no mistake: No native alive today lost their continent. No native today can claim Canada is theirs and not mine and every other citizens. Every native today who claims a loss is living in a past they aren't a part of. Their ancestors lost something. So did the ancestors of just about everyone who ever lived. Losers whine about what happened long ago and use it as an excuse for failure. Natives need to eliminate this wart on their soul and take back their individual rights while rejecting group victimhood and identity politics. They do themselves harm in resisting their own best interests. They don't call welfare a trap for nothing.

Mikey also foolishly mentioned "black" people. If you decry the plight of black people, why demand Apartheid here for natives? Sounds like a bit of bad logic but least you're consistently illogical.

As for PoW's I won't even dignify something so stupid with a response.

But I have a better analogy: Russians. Russians suffered from 70 years of economic and political terrorism from their government. They were denied the right to self-determination through the communist system. Natives share this system. The Reserves are places where you are at the mercy of the Chiefs who lack accountability and have powers that make the corruption of many third-world nations look tame. There is no secret ballot so reprisals are common. When the Chief and his cabal of insiders have the power to give or take everything you rely on from welfare to housing to social services, and they also get to see how you vote, they have the power to crush dissent. You don't own your home and rely on the state for everything in the same way that the Russians did. Neither have control over their lives or their destiny because the state/chiefs have usurped the individual. On most reserves financial audits are rare, incomplete or non-existent so theft or waste of funds that are meant for the average native is not uncommon.

Without ownership you have nothing. Without political and economic accountability, you have nothing. The same misery and social pathologies (diabetes, alcoholism and substance abuse, depression, suicide and the like) that you see on native reserves you also see in the Russian people. It will take generations to undo the damage caused by communism (that is, if they weren't going backwards under Putin.) The same will be said of our "Bantu" homelands we refer to as reserves after (or if) we eliminate them.

It's well known that you suck the life out of people when you eliminate their purpose. Welfare kills people. Reserves are the cruellest type of welfare as it makes you chose between living away from your friends, family and all you know to get ahead or stay behind and languish in dung heaps that are often hundreds of miles from the nearest job. Reserves compound this problem by concentrating the walking dead in one place like a slum or ghetto that also happens to be segregated from other communities. Isolated reserves are economically infeasible and cruel places and all the money in the world is wasted until the entire idea of race-based entitlement and treatment is eliminated. You do natives a grave disservice by demanding more of the status quo on top of the damage already done.

Natives can't go back to living like they did prior to 1492 any more than the British or Japanese or Congolese can. To suggest that it should be state policy to keep natives trapped in the past may keep the votes coming for the liberals, it may keep the chiefs in power, but it is destroying the native people.

The history of humanity is filled with conquerors and the vanquished. Boarders and people change constantly. There are a reason why natives have names like "Mohawk warriors." The various competing groups of natives fought and killed in their competition for land and resources. They are not, nor have ever been a race of little innocent children. They are all fully human with the same characteristics as the rest of us. The myths perpetrated by the stupid suggesting that native life was some sort of Garden of Eden-like utopia where the natives were all happy and singing in the fields is a particularly feeble - not to mention racist - fairy tale. The "noble savage" myth was racist. Those who perpetuate it today are racist. To say that the Indians have the right to have their people frozen in time but the Druids or Pics or Vikings don't is also racist. Suggesting that Canada's system of racial Apartheid based on historical fantasy should be eliminated is not racism Thinking that the natives are different and need or deserve special treatment is racism.

It will be hard as hell to reverse this injustice against us all (and the natives the most) under Canada's Apartheid. It most likely won't be accomplished in my lifetime. It's a shame as another couple of generations of natives will be destroyed while we wait. In the mean time, if you want improvements to the lives of natives, you have to stop penalizing them for living outside of reserves, you need to boost accountability and democracy on the reserves and you need to stop educating natives in the ideology of victimhood. More money is not the answer. Well spent, you'd only need a small fraction of what it being pissed away for no positive results.

posted by Warwick @ 3/23/2007

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#550083 --- 03/29/07 08:51 AM Re: Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
The Syr Post Standard this morning reports the following:

"State Senate considers bill to split cigarette taxes with tribes
Thursday, March 29, 2007By Glenn Coin Staff writer
New York, which fought with Indian tribes for years about taxes on cigarettes sold at Indian-owned stores, is taking a new approach: sharing.

The state Senate is considering legislation that would let tribes keep half the taxes and give the state the other half. Gov. Eliot Spitzer has said he's open to the idea of revenue-sharing.

"It's something we're willing to discuss with the tribes," said Spitzer spokeswoman Christine Pritchard.


Some tribes say they will not remit any taxes to the state; others have said they're willing to talk. The Cayuga Indian Nation has a meeting with Spitzer in the next several weeks, said Dan French."

My opinion: This is wrong. It is another raced based bribe to the tribes so they will not burn tires. If they pass this, the merchants in this state should stand as one and demand they be allowed to keep half the state sales taxes they collect to invest in their business. Every county should demand half the state sales taxes that are collected within their jurisdiction.

It is another unfair advantage given to a racial group.

Drop the sales taxes on cigarettes and gasoline, make it up elsewhere and the problem is solved. Put the tax on income if necessary, better yet cut state spending.


Edited by grinch (03/29/07 09:09 AM)

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#550180 --- 03/29/07 12:15 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: grinch]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Your opinion is wrong again grinch. It's not based on race. It's based on a government dealing with another government. I know that's too much for you to take in, but that's what it is, government to government.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#550338 --- 03/29/07 05:20 PM Re: Tribal News [Re: Okla.ndn]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
No matter how you try to spin it, tribalism is based on race. One does not need a certain blood quota to belong to a political party, and be a citizen of a local, county, state or federal government in the USA. Nor is it necessary to prove blood quantum when it is time to vote. No one should in the United States of America. I devoted a good share of my youth to the military and fought in two wars to protect that right.

As the writer stated in a post above, Tribalism is a thing of the past and should go the way of the horse and buggy. Except for those who stand to profit by perpetuating its existence Tribalism has outlived its usefulness.

There is room for one government to rule supreme in the United States and a vast majority of our citizens suypport our current form of government that is not based on race or blood quantum.

Is there a tribe that allows non indians to become and remain voting members? If so please name the tribe or tribes.

No I do not believe I am wrong in what I posted. It is my opinion and I stand by it.









Edited by grinch (03/29/07 05:49 PM)

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