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#394875 --- 06/18/06 01:41 PM "An Inconvenient Truth"
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
I really recommend this film. No matter which side of the issue you think you are on, you owe it to yourself to see it.

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#394876 --- 06/18/06 11:06 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Quote:

I really recommend this film. No matter which side of the issue you think you are on, you owe it to yourself to see it.




Never heard of it. What's it about?
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I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#394877 --- 06/19/06 08:00 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
It is about Global Warming. It clearly, factually, and unemotionally lays out the scientific basis for Global Warming, the future consequences, and what can be done. Some of the data (taken from the Greenland Ice Cap)goes back 650,000 years.

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#394878 --- 06/19/06 09:19 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Killing Machine Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Peterman Village Apartments
Volcanos cause global warming more than humans. Some (right wing funded, but nonetheless) scientists believe that global warming trends actually STOPPED a few years ago.

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#394879 --- 06/19/06 10:36 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Quote:

Volcanos cause global warming more than humans. Some (right wing funded, but nonetheless) scientists believe that global warming trends actually STOPPED a few years ago.




Funny that these neo con scientists claim that warming trends have stopped, and ignore the fact that the polar caps continue to melt at an alarming rate. As it was with cigarettes and the tobacco industry, for every scientist who comes up with evidence of global warming, the conservatives trot out their own scientists with contradictory evidence.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#394880 --- 06/20/06 04:47 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Retired Soldier Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 12945
Loc: Rochester, NY
Again, whatever you believe, I would recommend you go see the movie and then make up your mind.

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#394881 --- 06/29/06 04:32 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
greenelf Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2956
This week's freaky rain & flooding in upstate NY should sell a few tickets to this movie. Did anyone see Gore on the Daily Show this week? My brothers keep insisting global warming is only a left wing plot and all the scientists are wrong. I guess we'll get to see.

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#394882 --- 07/03/06 09:37 AM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29711
Loc: Houston, TX
A left wing plot? To make life better? Improve the quality of life on this planet? To improve this planet? To reverse some man-made damage? Liberals are sneaky like that. What an underhanded plan to extend the life of our planet, our natural resources, and in turn, human existence.


Edited by past tense (07/03/06 09:38 AM)
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#394883 --- 07/09/06 01:34 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Modest Yahoo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/09/06
Posts: 14
What about the volcanos?? If we could just get some truth concerning the volcanos, everything would be just dandy. Do volcanos really cause global warming worse than humans?

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#394884 --- 07/10/06 10:55 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Rascal Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 17022
Loc: Brewerton, NY, USA
I thought volcanoes caused global cooling by their smoke and soot blocking the sun's radiation...

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#394885 --- 07/11/06 02:40 AM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Mumsy Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 10683
Loc: Waterloo
THE INFLUENCE OF VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS ON
THE OZONE, GREENHOUSE, AND HAZE EFFECTS
Volcanic eruptions can enhance all three of these climate effects to variable degrees. They contribute to ozone depletion, as well as to both cooling and warming of the earth's atmosphere. The role of volcanic eruptions on each climate effect is described below.

INFLUENCE ON THE OZONE EFFECT:
The halide acid HCl has been shown to be effective in destroying ozone; however, the latest studies show that most volcanic HCl is confined to the troposphere (below the stratosphere), where it is washed out by rain. Thus, it never has the opportunity to react with ozone. On the other hand, satellite data after the 1991 eruptions of Mt.Pinatubo (the Philippines) and Mt. Hudson (Chile) showed a 15-20% ozone loss at high latitudes, and a greater than 50% loss over the Antarctic! Thus, it appears that volcanic eruptions can play a significant role in reducing ozone levels. However, it is an indirect role, which cannot be directly attributed to volcanic HCl. Eruption-generated particles, or aerosols, appear to provide surfaces upon which chemical reactions take place. The particles themselves do not contribute to ozone destruction, but they interact with chlorine- and bromine-bearing compounds from human-made CFCs. Fortunately, volcanic particles will settle out of the stratosphere in two or three years, so that the effects of volcanic eruptions on ozone depletion are short lived. Although volcanic aerosols provide a catalyst for ozone depletion, the real culprits in destroying ozone are human-generated CFCs. Scientists expect the ozone layer to recover due to restrictions on CFCs and other ozone-depleting chemicals by the United Nations Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer. However, future volcanic eruptions will cause fluctuations in the recovery process.

INFLUENCE ON THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT:
Volcanic eruptions can enhance global warming by adding CO2 to the atmosphere. However, a far greater amount of CO2 is contributed to the atmosphere by human activities each year than by volcanic eruptions. Volcanoes contribute about 110 million tons/year, whereas other sources contribute about 10 billion tons/year. The small amount of global warming caused by eruption-generated greenhouse gases is offset by the far greater amount of global cooling caused by eruption-generated particles in the stratosphere (the haze effect). Greenhouse warming of the earth has been particularly evident since 1980. Without the cooling influence of such eruptions as El Chichon (1982) and Mt. Pinatubo (1991), described below, greenhouse warming would have been more pronounced.

INFLUENCE ON THE HAZE EFFECT:
Volcanic eruptions enhance the haze effect to a greater extent than the greenhouse effect, and thus they can lower mean global temperatures. It was thought for many years that the greatest volcanic contribution of the haze effect was from the suspended ash particles in the upper atmosphere that would block out solar radiation. However, these ideas changed in the 1982 after the eruption of the Mexican volcano, El Chichon. Although the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens lowered global temperatures by 0.1OC, the much smaller eruption of El Chichon lowered global temperatures three to five times as much. Although the Mt. St. Helens blast emitted a greater amount of ash in the stratosphere, the El Chichon eruption emitted a much greater volume of sulfur-rich gases (40x more). It appears that the volume of pyroclastic debris emitted during a blast is not the best criteria to measure its effects on the atmosphere. The amount of sulfur-rich gases appears to be more important. Sulfur combines with water vapor in the stratosphere to form dense clouds of tiny sulfuric acid droplets. These droplets take several years to settle out and they are capable to decreasing the troposphere temperatures because they absorb solar radiation and scatter it back to space.

EXAMPLES OF GLOBAL COOLING IN THE AFTERMATH OF HISTORIC ERUPTIONS:
Observational evidence shows a clear correlation between historic eruptions and subsequent years of cold climate conditions. Four well-known historic examples are described below.


LAKI (1783) -- The eastern U.S. recorded the lowest-ever winter average temperature in 1783-84, about 4.8OC below the 225-year average. Europe also experienced an abnormally severe winter. Benjamin Franklin suggested that these cold conditions resulted from the blocking out of sunlight by dust and gases created by the Iceland Laki eruption in 1783. The Laki eruption was the largest outpouring of basalt lava in historic times. Franklin's hypothesis is consistent with modern scientific theory, which suggests that large volumes of SO2 are the main culprit in haze-effect global cooling.

TAMBORA (1815) -- Thirty years later, in 1815, the eruption of Mt. Tambora, Indonesia, resulted in an extremely cold spring and summer in 1816, which became known as the year without a summer. The Tambora eruption is believed to be the largest of the last ten thousand years. New England and Europe were hit exceptionally hard. Snowfalls and frost occurred in June, July and August and all but the hardiest grains were destroyed. Destruction of the corn crop forced farmers to slaughter their animals. Soup kitchens were opened to feed the hungry. Sea ice migrated across Atlantic shipping lanes, and alpine glaciers advanced down mountain slopes to exceptionally low elevations.

KRAKATAU (1883) -- Eruption of the Indonesian volcano Krakatau in August 1883 generated twenty times the volume of tephra released by the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens. Krakatau was the second largest eruption in history, dwarfed only by the eruption of neighboring Tambora in 1815 (see above). For months after the Krakatau eruption, the world experienced unseasonably cool weather, brilliant sunsets, and prolonged twilights due to the spread of aerosols throughout the stratosphere. The brilliant sunsets are typical of atmospheric haze. The unusual and prolonged sunsets generated considerable contemporary debate on their origin.

PINATUBO (1991) -- Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines on June 15, 1991, and one month later Mt. Hudson in southern Chile also erupted. The Pinatubo eruption produced the largest sulfur oxide cloud this century. The combined aerosol plume of Mt. Pinatubo and Mt. Hudson diffused around the globe in a matter of months. The data collected after these eruptions show that mean world temperatures decreased by about 1 degree Centigrade over the subsequent two years. This cooling effect was welcomed by many scientists who saw it as a counter-balance to global warming.
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Anyone who says sunshine brings happiness has never danced in the rain.

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#394886 --- 07/22/06 08:22 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
cleangov Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: NY
I wemt to see it tonight. I recommend it to everyone. The pictures of all the glaciers shrinking around the world are very convincing.

The most startling thing I learned is that there is one scenario where the ocean could rise 20 feet in the next 10 years and displace 500 million people.

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#394887 --- 07/22/06 08:27 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Rascal Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 17022
Loc: Brewerton, NY, USA
How much CO2 did you contribute on your venture?

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#394888 --- 07/22/06 08:36 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
cleangov Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: NY
Quote:

How much CO2 did you contribute on your venture?




It was CO2 well spent. I bet you don't have the nerve to go see it, do you?

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#394889 --- 07/23/06 09:18 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Quote:

Do volcanos really cause global warming worse than humans?




More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition sponsored by Dr. Frederick Seitz, past president of the National Academy of Sciences, refuting Gore's claims that global warming is human-induced.

The petition states: "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."


http://patriotpost.us/pub/06-25_Digest.htm
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#394890 --- 08/11/06 11:22 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
From the Conservative Journal of Record? You don't suppose these guys might have an agenda, do you?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#394891 --- 08/11/06 11:24 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
I finally had a chance to see this film tonight at the Movieplex in Auburn. Not only was the film reveting, but the data and conclusions were startling. I echo the voice of others and urge you to see this movie. As RS said, "You owe it to yourself."
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#394892 --- 01/22/07 03:48 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
I finally saw this on pay per view...it is alarming, and I think everyone should see it , no matter what they believe...SOMETHING needs to be done and SOON. I am starting to do my part, although it feels like such an uphill battle, ala David and Goliath..


What does everyone think about stores offering money off or refunds if you replace your old light bulbs with those new ones? Like, a "bring in your old bulb in" day and get money off a new one...or simply offer a rebate for buying the new ones? Think that would encourage anyone? They could show the movie above the endcap where they display the new bulbs. I know they are pricey, that is why I though of that, but they are worth the money in the long run.
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It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#394893 --- 01/28/07 10:41 AM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
I am cynical on this issue . I try to use less energy but as i ride my bicycle to the store i get passed by Hummers, Cadillac Escalades ect then i go past huge houses . This will only be solved if we all do our part .

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#394894 --- 01/28/07 01:20 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
I agree....I just went to a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle, but could not afford the hybrid...I do miss the roominess of the mini van and SUV though
But, better to miss that, than half the world...
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#394895 --- 01/28/07 08:13 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
Quote:

I agree....I just went to a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle, but could not afford the hybrid...I do miss the roominess of the mini van and SUV though
But, better to miss that, than half the world...



Americangirl I am glad to hear other people are thinking about this issue. Now i am ashamed because i drive a mini van but it has been in my garage for @ least 3 weeks still using bicycle .I only use auto when i transport my grand children .
If people were aware of the impact of things they do i think we could solve global warming and our dependence on foreign oil.
For instance this tidbit from
Canandaigua Daily Messenger "Bristol Mt.Ski resort opened.
"Operating this resort consumes as much power per day as the entire Towns of Fairport and Naples combined "

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#394896 --- 01/31/07 03:27 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
I hear the senate is having a meeting on it and the UN is announcing something soon on some findings...they are finally taking it seriously!
That's great about the bike. I must say I am not that committed yet, mostly because back problems prevent me from other modes of transport, but I do try and help out the Earth when I can!


Edited by american girl (01/31/07 03:28 PM)
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#394897 --- 01/31/07 04:48 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
AM.girl
I just read an interesting article on this issue in FLT opinion page
1-26-07 by Mary K. Schoonover . I am a bit of a newbe to computers i tried to search for it on FLT site can't seem to bring it up . I just sent Mary an Email . If i can retrieve this will forward to you if you want .
About the Bicycle went out today to library in Clifton Spg.
Some one started a conversation it seems that because i always ride she thought i was a revoked.

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#394898 --- 01/31/07 05:43 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
LOL!
Send it to me if you find it!! I'm not good with the computers either!!
I can't believe you ride in the snow!!!!! BRRRR!
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#394899 --- 02/01/07 11:37 AM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
Quote:

LOL!
Send it to me if you find it!! I'm not good with the computers either!!
I can't believe you ride in the snow!!!!! BRRRR!



AMgirl Mary sent here it is AM
Hello, Jim -

There's been a glitch on the server, so I can't give you a link, but I
have copied the column into this reply.

Thank you for writing,

Mary

Maybe Carter was right
Eco-Logical
By Mary K. Schoonover

A Carter-era buzz word — sacrifice — is being dusted off by those
who
advocate a drastic overhaul of U.S. energy policy.

Steeped in religious history, sacrifice traces its meaning to the Latin
“sacer” or holy. To sacrifice (aside from offing animals to gain
divine
favor) is to test one’s convictions: Give up something valued for the
sake
of something deemed more worthy.

What a person is willing to sacrifice speaks volumes about what she
values: A parent’s life for that of her child. A musician’s soul
for
unparalleled talent. A five-scoop sundae drenched in hot fudge for a
size
4 dress. A few million Btus for the ability to lounge around the house
comfortably in shorts in January — or to avoid breaking a sweat in
July.

In an April 1977 energy policy speech, President Jimmy Carter used
“sacrifice” 10 times, calling on Americans’ courage and
patriotism to do
what was necessary to re-address our energy use and tailor it to
available
supply. He acknowledged that many would likely balk and lobby for
exemption.

However, calling his proposed course correction the “moral equivalent
of
war,” he challenged Americans to make lifestyle changes —
everything from
wearing sweaters when it’s cold to driving more fuel-efficient
vehicles —
to help the country maintain its powerful world leadership. Carter said
that doing so was “essential to protect our jobs, our environment,
our
standard of living, and our future” and that it would herald an age
of
peace, independence and freedom.

But, 30 years later, little about our lifestyle has changed. Sacrifice
never became the rallying cry Carter intended. We’ve been too busy
pursuing happiness (i.e. consuming).

Yet, the United States is at war, we’re highly dependent on other
nations
for energy; and we’re hardly free — of strategic obligations that
bind us
to governments we don’t necessarily respect; of vulnerabilities that
force
us to spend millions to protect oil shipping lanes and pipelines; or of
global shifts that threaten U.S. jobs and the country’s economic and
diplomatic standing.

We’re not exactly on the brink of doomsday, but some of the perils
Carter
hoped to forestall have indeed manifested, giving credence to his
mothballed proposals. Foremost, tailoring energy use to supply is
imperative.

Americans consume more than their fair share — with only 5 percent of
the
world’s population, we consume some 23 percent of its energy.
That’s more
than the other five most-populous nations added together.

Energy use goes beyond utilities and transportation. It takes half a
quart
of oil to produce what each American dollar buys to maintain the
luxurious
lifestyle to which we’ve grown accustomed.

Food. Durable goods. Clothing. Everything we buy carries an undisclosed
energy cost.

It takes more than 4,600 calories of fossil fuel energy to grow, chill,
wash, package and ship to the East Coast a one-pound box of prewashed
greens grown organically in California. (Figure about 4 percent higher
for
a conventionally grown pound of salad.) So, for 80 calories of food
energy
captured from the sun, our society is willing to swap 57 times more
calories of finite fuel.

That’s far from a holy trade-off.

Yet most of us are clueless as to how much energy it takes to provide
daily goods and services. Before Americans can answer the call to
sacrifice, consumers need to be educated.

We can hardly be expected to deny our desires if we don’t realize
there’s
a greater good at stake.

On the Net:
www.iiec.org
www.earth911.org
www.worldpopulationbalance.org
www.enviro-friendly.com/us-energy-
consumption.shtml

Schoonover is chief copy editor at the Times. Her “Eco-Logical”
column
runs every other Friday. E-mail her at mschoonover@ fltimes.com.

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#394900 --- 02/02/07 05:33 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
That is very discouraging....I was just thinking today that even with the little bit I give up, it may help a bit...but there are sooo many out there who will NEVER change their lifestyle, they just don't care, or want to accept it. It will take the gov't making laws requiring change to bring these changes about. We are all too comfy with our luxuries...it's very depressing when I think of the overall picture. What good is my little bit? What good is it if I turn my heat down and wear sweaters, turn off MY lights, trade in MY SUV...etc etc...There are a thousand others who won't do it...sigh....

Thanks for the article!! The UN meeting was encouraging though...
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#394901 --- 02/03/07 10:23 AM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
AM.GIRL
Here is a good site on electric power and how to conserve and save money too.
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/
Here is one on ethanol . I think the jury is still out on ethanol while we wait some are going to fill their pockets and drive up the price of food in the process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_the_United_States

AM


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#394902 --- 02/04/07 10:05 AM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
Cool, thanks! I really like the Mr. Electric one, lots of good tips!
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#394903 --- 02/06/07 12:36 PM Re: "An Inconvenient Truth"
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
AMGIRL
Small ways to save or use resources.
Food Scraps - I see as an asset for garden.- Keep a recycled container on kitchen counter {my currant is ice bucket gleaned from garage sale free bin} empty outside as needed into old bucket or bury near garden . If no garden give away to a good home.

Put sign near toilet-----to save water
IF BROWN SEND DOWN IF YELLOW LET IT MELLOW
{ Before y'all readers start moanin .I realize not every one wants to do this but i am serious.}


AM
“Wisdom is not communicable. The wisdom which a wise man tries to communicate always sounds foolish.”
-Herman Hesse


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