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#270759 --- 12/14/05 10:02 AM Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
People, As you know, I am the one who wrote about the problems that we as parents have with our kids when they finally turn 16. Even though if they run away from home like some do, the Police do not legally have to bring them home, BUT, if they cause any damage to any others property, we are responsible as the parents until they turn 18.....this is a catch 22.........and it needs to be fixed now.....We have to pay damages until these kids turn 18, but the kid is free to do whatever they want at 16?
My problem was NOT about damage anywhere, it was all about School....they can legally quit School at 16, but we are responsible if the kid doesn't go for that extra year? The Law is on the childs side about not coming home and we have to stay up at night wondering where they are and what they are doing! Are they in trouble, doing drugs, having sex, getting drunk, and worse of all, are they dead in a dutch somewhere? All of this falls on the PARENTS to fix it because the Cops couldn't legally bring them home because the LAW says 16..................16 these days are NOT like they were 50 yrs ago or even 30 yrs ago......when we grew up, we never turned our parents into CPS either? Was there a CPS? I need help people, I don't know where to start..........

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#270760 --- 12/14/05 10:34 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
Jelloshot Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 11043
Loc: Right behind you.
"I don't know where to start.........."

http://www.senatornozzolio.com/

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#270761 --- 12/14/05 11:53 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
Thanks

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#270762 --- 12/14/05 12:20 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
cRaZeD Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 2493
Hmmm...We just had a girl up the street last year who was almost 17 and she snuck out of her parents house and went to stay with a friend. The parents didn't know where she was as they hadn't seen nor heard from her, so the cops were called and they checked the friends houses and found her at one of the friend's houses. They made her get in the police car and they drove her home and then went on to have her receive counseling. But, they were very stern with her about going home.

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#270763 --- 12/14/05 12:45 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
Well I have a friend whose 16 year old daughter ran away and went to her friend's house, when they finally found out where she was, they sent the police, who told her, she should go home, but did not have to. The parents hands were tied, the girl stayed with the friend whose mother let her have her boyfriend spend the night, and lord knows what else. Finally the mom talked some sense into her daughter and she came back home on her own. They have since moved out of this county and this state, which was the best move for her I believe.
POINT IS-the police did not force her to come home, because they couldn't.
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#270764 --- 12/14/05 01:01 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
Jelloshot Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 11043
Loc: Right behind you.
ok first of all, wiggles , dont get your hopes up, the laws were enacted way back when to protect children based on numerous abuses against them, now it's gone full circle and is making the system worse more than better. But I applaud you and anyone else who is willing to try. Secondly as far as the two above scenarios, true the police cant "make" a teen go home, but some will and do try, and some will use thier influence as an authority figure to help further influence a 16 or 17 year old. those are the good cops, most likely older ones who are all to familiar and disgusted with the system, a young 20 something rookie is probably going to go by the book and doesnt have the life experience to realize what he or she could do to help the situation. Just like 100's of other laws out there that are wrong and outdated, some of the child protective and juvenile laws are inappropriate for todays moralistically challenged society, and it sucks for everyone, from the parents to the cops to the children who feel they havent got to answer to anyone anymore.

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#270765 --- 12/14/05 02:43 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
cRaZeD Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 2493
I also know of a Monroe County teen who is 16 who was ordered through Family Court to be on the PINS program.

Governing Runaways

FIXING PINS

The debate in Connecticut echoes one that took place three years ago in New York, which also sends 16- and 17-year-olds to adult court. New York’s version of Youth in Crisis is a law that identifies “Persons in Need of Supervision,” or PINS. For decades the law had provided for parents to petition a family court judge if they were having trouble keeping their teens under control. Parents could get help and counseling for boys under 16 and girls under 18. Three years ago, the legislature opted to expand the role of juvenile court by moving the maximum PINS age up to 18 for both sexes. As in Connecticut, there were arguments that opening the door for 16- and 17-year-olds under PINS would overwork the court, but the change was made anyway. “Parents feel empowered that they can go into family court and kind of scare their kids straight,” says Maria Toro, of the Citizens Committee for Children of New York.

Child advocates in other states, however, continue to question whether an expanded juvenile court is likely to help much, even if adequate resources can be found. “If you need a lawyer to get your kids to come to breakfast, you’re in trouble,” says Al Singer, director of the Child Advocacy Commission in North Carolina. Singer argues that teen runaways are essentially a police matter, not a judicial matter. “Whether you change the laws or not, police still have a problem with 16- and 17-year-old runaways,” he says.

Yet some states have had success in giving law enforcement officers the powers they now feel they lack. That’s what Louisiana did. One of the 10 states where adult court jurisdiction begins at 17, Louisiana has a long history of parental complaints that police would not respond to calls about runaways specifically. Even though the law allowed officers to pick up anyone 18 or under, police forces were reluctant to intervene out of fear of being sued by the families.

So in 2001, Louisiana changed the law to grant immunity from liability to police who assist or take into custody any runaway child at a parent’s request. The law was sponsored by Representative Tony Perkins, who says he received at least five phone calls in 1999 and 2000 from parents complaining that when they reported their 17-year-olds had run away, the police refused to respond. Since the new law’s inception, says an aide to Perkins, the office has “not had a single phone call. Obviously the parents that were having those problems are not having those problems anymore.” The Louisiana approach is similar to what Connecticut has tried to do in its most recent rewrites of the Youth in Crisis law.

Meanwhile, as Connecticut struggles to find the right strategy, Makayla Korpinen’s mother is suing the girl’s boyfriend and his family. The boyfriend has been charged with first-degree manslaughter and narcotics offenses, and the Connecticut Child Fatality Review Panel is looking into the case to determine whether local and state agencies did enough to help at the time of crisis.

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#270766 --- 12/14/05 02:47 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
I don't understand that, maybe the parents had some connections somewhere?

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#270767 --- 12/14/05 03:00 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
Very well put, I'm already aware of the PINS Program expanding to 18 years old now! But if by any chance one of these kids get into any trouble at all, the parents will be called to pick them up at the Station, go to court and made to pay any damages inflicked on anyones property or self? Thats why I don't get it.....they " can do what they want", at 16, but we have to be responsible for their mistakes until 18..........Even my Insurance Company sends papers when they turn 19 especially if they are NOT in School, they want you to take them off your insurance!

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#270768 --- 12/14/05 03:04 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
We are already working with PINS and DHS!
Shes already in the GED Program at DSS/ work force

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#270769 --- 12/14/05 07:09 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
I agree that some police will use their experience and get a child to go home, but around here it seems like mostly they go by the books.
I just wish they would do more themselves to get the law changed, since they also see what is happening. They must hear parents frustrations every day, yet their hands are also tied.
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#270770 --- 12/14/05 08:48 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
Where's the love Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 5841
Loc: Tahiti - I can dream...
i work with a woman who was working at the time she received a call - the dreaded call... her 16 yr old daughter was EXECUTED - wrong place wrong time...no. She refused to abide by her mothers house rules...got herself involved with the wrong crowd and someone shot her in the head and threw her body alongside the road. Tossed her like garbage. If that isn't a wake up call - what would be?
_________________________
Nope...more like borrowing the bull, but not having to put up with the "manure"

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#270771 --- 12/15/05 04:25 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
karrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/25/03
Posts: 1834
Loc: everywhere
OMG this is so sad.....

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#270772 --- 12/15/05 04:39 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
It really is sad...with people complaining that parents don't do enough in today's society, then you have parents who are trying to watch out for their kids, but, once they turn 16...BOOM, nothing we can do. Then let them vote, go to war, etc when they're 16 if that's the way they want it!!
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#270773 --- 12/15/05 10:41 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
Those are the things that I don't really want to happen, When my son Rob was shot while hunting 2 yrs. ago, I freaked! Angels were with him that day, but to lose a kid by someone elses hands, is really a scary thought.....especially if it was someone who was out to steal and kill, like a serial killer.....I don't even like to see it on the news or read it in the paper and thats all you see these days now! There's alot of perverts in this sorry world that we live in...and if we don't talk to our kids about this world we live in now, who else will?

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#270774 --- 12/16/05 03:59 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
WilllOWisp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Seneca County
I think some of my children will be celebrating their 30th Birthdays at home with us, LOL. Don't make home life miserable and they won't leave. Trust me. Respect them as you would like to be respected. Listen when they talk, help them make good decisions for themselves. What else can I say? You should have started when they were born. I don't know if it works once the damage has been done. Damage meaning, I am the boss and you're noting, meaning my way or the highway, meaning shut up and listen to me because I am the parent. WRONG approach to children. Help them make good decisions. WW
_________________________
" Rich People Get Body guards, Poor People get Shot! "

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#270775 --- 12/17/05 09:24 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
izzy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: USA
I have already admitted that she is a spoiled brat and we/I did that, but I still tried to tell her different things in her 16 yrs, like respect, honesty, friendships with all regardless of color, religion, status in School----but it seems like it was only an effort on my side and everything I said went in one ear and out the other!

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#270776 --- 12/28/05 02:15 PM Re: Changing the 16 law
But Seriously... Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/01
Posts: 753
Loc: Seneca County
Just one correction. We are financially responsible for our children until they turn 21 years old. Been thru this with a 17 yr old child starting last April. Had cops (State, Seneca and Ontario County and Geneva PD)involved because she jumped from one place to another. CPS got involved because when I finally got her home, she freaked out and told me to "f--- off" and I pushed my kid and she told school that I punched her. If I had punched her, she wouldn't have been able to talk! She took off after that of course. School is mandated to report anything like that. I had conflicting stories from each police agency regarding mine versus the kid's rights. I was told that, as a parent, I had to make the effort to make sure she was living in a safe place. Other than that, its all I could do. Finally, my state trooper friend told me that I could get PINs involved (I was initially told kid was too old and hadn't broken any laws or wasn't "bad" enuf) There are various levels/types I think. BUT, they were backed up and I never got a return call after leaving messages with the PINS person. My biggest beef is the parents who allowed my kid to stay with them against my wishes. I know she lied about how "awful" it was at home and why she was staying with them, but they should have contacted me. When I contacted them, most didn't realize there was a problem. She ended up staying with her lowlife boyfriend and family. Parents allowed her to sleep with their son. Their other son already was living there with his girlfriend and baby and expecting another. When I confronted the mother as to why or how could she allow it, her response was "that's between you and your kid". I told her she is the parent and is responsible for what goes on in her household. She said she wasn't my kid's parent. I just told her she was scum and didn't talk to her again. I pretty much didn't speak to or see my kid for months. A good thing is that my kid graduated (barely) from high school. So, there's a positive there. In Sept she turned 18. She has detached herself from her family. I keep reaching out and we have times we communicate well. She lies easily and is hard to trust. Has lost many jobs, dropped out of college, etc. Lives with different boyfriend now. To this day we have a difficult time communicating. I was thankful at Christmas we were able to get together. She actually cried and said she is sorry. But, seeing is believing. There's much to mend. One day at a time. I do not give her any money and have refused to do that since the day she left. I will, occasionally, give her a CARE package or have her over to eat, but that's it. She has medical insurance so I pay after that. I've always told her she's welcome to come home but has to live by my rules. We did counseling, but she didn't follow thru. Oh well...I've met LOTS of parents who have been thru this. Even my state trooper friend said he couldn't wait for his son to turn 21 so he could breathe a sigh of relief. He had told me that even though a kid isn't living with you, they can drive down main street, throw bricks thru windows and the parents are liable for damages. Nice! So, my heart goes out to you parents who are trying to deal with a difficult teen. My kid didn't "have it all" and I grounded her for bad grades and bad behavior. She had a lot going for her, but she tossed it. Such is life. I'm told that as they mature, they come back, realizing that life isn't easy and they will respect their parents eventually. I realize some do not. I pray mine does!

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#270777 --- 12/29/05 04:32 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
american girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 3511
Loc: ny
I hope so too...I am sorry for what you had to go through, thanks for sharing it, it helps us know we are not alone!!!
_________________________
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter, that tells what kind of life you have lived.

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#270778 --- 12/29/05 07:07 AM Re: Changing the 16 law
justlurkin Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 2743
BS...keep up what you are doing. Believe me when I say, you are doing everything right. It is called Tough Love! It is hell to go through, and I swear you wrote my own experience. Yes, you are not alone, many great respected families/parents, have a child that wonders off. The 16 and free law is the culprit, not the parents, in every case. The kids know the law, and play it! It is much easier to walk away, then to stay home with a house of healthy rules, curfews, and guiding parents. The system is to blame in so many cases, such as yours. Yes, wonderful parents, that taught the child well, still fall victim to the open door policy that these kids find more exciting and take. I hope she gets tired of it all, and comes home and turns herself around. I am sure she will, as you sound like a good Mom that taught her the right tools and have shown her the accepted paths of life. I will share a prayer for her. Hang in there, I have been there and done this...and today mine is a wonderful mom and wife, an employed registered nurse, and an outstanding and very respected person in our community. They do come home!
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