FingerLakes1.com Forums
Page 2 of 20 < 1 2 3 4 ... 19 20 >
Topic Options
#212274 --- 08/07/05 11:44 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Just come here as individuals, or as a tribe and agree to pay your taxes and obey the laws that are imposed on all. Nobody should object to that, just be ordinary, taxpaying law abiding citizens. Do not waive sovereignty in our faces in an area that has been under County, State and Federal control for more than 200 years. Do not pick and choose just which laws you wish to comply with or what taxes you are willing to pay. If you do that many would be willing to forget the 20 years of threats to take our homes, farms and businesses as your right and demanding unheard of sums of money. Yes, and the costs that were incurred in defending ourselves.

If you wish to work with us within the boundary of laws that are set down for all of us then do so and welcome. If you persist in picking and choosing which laws and taxes apply to you and your tribe then you will be constantly in court.

Taxes are imposed for the common good. They provide the funds that pay for necessary services that benefit us all. Pay them as we all must do, and you are welcome. When you do so you have the right to complain as we all do. If you are asked to pay more than your fair share you will find many people willing to back your complaint.

Zoning regulations are also for the common good. for instance you could not start a factory on land that is zoned for agriculture without applying for a variance. You cannot drill for gas or sink a well without a permit. A variance may or may not be granted depending on the type of business, operation, its effect on neighbors and other businesses. There are laws that regulate gambling as well as other enterprises. Sure it is inconvenient and frustrating at times. Nothing mysterious about it, just comply with the law. You want to be called a nation and rule your own people, do so on your land, but submit to those laws that are there for all of us.

It is a simply a matter of paying your taxes and obeying the laws the same as anyone else.


See just what I was saying its all about one wanting to controll another.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
FingerLakes1.com
#212275 --- 08/08/05 12:30 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Okla: You have mentioned numerous times what "other" Tribes are doing, but never put a dollar figure on what the Seneca Cayuga do or have done. Why don't you say you funded a fire department, or a school or a road etc. No new firm or business comes into an area and is immediately asked for "donations". You say we wish to tax you even though the business may not be profitable. Sorry, that is the way it works. None of us like that, but any good business model should take that into account before the business is begun. You keep mentioning jobs and what you will "give" to the area. Nobody is asking for anything other than what we all have to do. Sovereignty lurks in the background of most of your posts, and what you propose "giving" verses taxes is not the way it can work. Apply for various tax abatement programs that are available to all. That should provide a competitive advantage for your tribe.

That of course, may not be what you have in mind.



We don't have the money other Tribes have but we just built a new fire station that will serve members and non member alike. A small school in our Tribal area has receved a great deal of its funding from us for a long time now that is open to Tribal members and non members. We have a water treatment plant that serves the area. We are one of the largest employers in the area and we have more non members working then members. I have not took time to look at what we paid in taxes last year but the year before last we paid in over 20 million dollars. You say it doesn't work like that, ok sure come tell the people that have been doing it for a long time now. grinch I have responded to you over and over and I know what you think. I don't agree with you and thats not going to change. I have asked the people to let us know what they would like to see us do! When we want someone to tell us what and how we are going to do something I will be sure to ask you first. Sovereignty is a big issue for you, not us we have it and we will keep it.

Now if anyone has something they would like to work with us on then step up. Or stand back and let grinch do your talking for you.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
#212276 --- 08/08/05 12:36 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

"what you propose "giving" verses taxes is not the way it can work."---And never will.


It does work and has been working a long time.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
#212277 --- 08/08/05 04:16 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
SilverRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
Grinch has stated pretty well what most of us would like. Although I can speak for myself, Grinch has summed it up nicely. Come here and be PEOPLE with us. Stop this nonsense about being a separate nation. That will continue to alienate. How come you're called the Seneca-Cayuga? That sounds like a combination name...did your two tribes combine? GASP...and you weren't worried about your individual sovereignty and identification? Then stop the nonsense with the United States. You accept all the benefits but want none of the shared responsibility.
_________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

Top
#212278 --- 08/08/05 04:41 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
come, smoke and pay taxes
_________________________
TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA

Top
#212279 --- 08/08/05 06:49 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Subject: Re: Seneca-Cayuga land

You ask something from society then you can expect society will ask you to comply with the laws and pay your taxes.

Your concept of Indian Sovereignty is not working, otherwise there would be little or no opposition. There are thousands of organizations who claim hundreds of thousands members located across the country that will argue in favor of that point.. You want to do something on your land to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that.. Your tribe will look to the community to provide the services, yet you have not demonstrated a willingness to pay your share. Case in point, the tribe has indicated they have or will try to have the land placed into trust. .Nor are you willing to abide by zoning and other laws. If you wish to do something strictly for your own members on that land, do so, but do not expect the rest of the community to support you through their business and taxes that we pay.

For anyone interested in reading of just two organizations besides UCE that oppose Indian Sovereignty, click on the two url's below. There are many such groups, all with a central theme, One government, one rule of law and equal treatment for all under that law. By the way, One Nation is based in Oklahoma and formed because of the failure of our governments Indian Policies.

http://www.unitedpropertyowners.com/index.html

http://www.onenationok.com/

Side note: If I were as influential as you in your tribe I would advise them to purchase a law firm knowledgable in Indian law and market their services to all the tribes. They should be able to generate a huge cash flow (and profits) from all the law suits that I see being filed across the country. Chances of that succeeding are far better than those of an out of state tribe securing a casino in New York.

Top
#212280 --- 08/08/05 07:17 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Here we go again. This cries out for a test in court. Another case of fractured Government policies. Yes they can, no they can't and off we go to court.

Federal panel says tribe free to add casino

By Tony Thornton
The Oklahoman

The Osage Nation can build a casino anywhere in Osage County without going through the normal process required of every other Oklahoma tribe, federal regulators have ruled.
In a legal opinion with potentially far-ranging implications, the National Indian Gaming Commission said that county forms the tribe's reservation.

The commission's top attorney said she based her July 28 decision on previous documents indicating that the Osage Nation is the only Oklahoma tribe that still has a reservation.

What that means for nongaming purposes is unclear.

"I think that depends on what stance the Osage Nation wants to take," said Oklahoma City attorney William Norman, who represents several Oklahoma tribes.

He said the effect on matters such as law enforcement and environmental control within Osage County depends on "whether this is something they want to pursue to the fullest degree."

Osage Nation Chief Jim Gray said it is too soon to consider those types of implications.

"I wouldn't be too alarmist about it," Gray said. "That they ruled on it in such an affirmative way solidifies our view," he said.

The federal gaming commission's decision stems from the tribe's newest and largest casino, which opened Wednesday on the northwest edge of Tulsa, just inside the Osage County line.

The tribe bought 105 acres there for $800,000 in August 2001, land records show. The land is not in federal trust.

That casino has 1,023 electronic machines and 12 blackjack tables.

Osage Nation officials have announced plans to build another casino -- the tribe's fifth -- west of Bartlesville. That location is in federal trust for individual tribe members, but not for the tribe itself, according to the gaming commission's letter to the U.S. Interior Department.

Oklahoma's 26 other gaming tribes are required to ask the Interior Department to place land in trust for the tribe before a casino can be built.

That process can take years. Some tribes say they have waited a decade or longer. Sometimes, their request is denied.

If upheld, the gaming commission's decision would allow the Osage Nation to bypass that requirement.

The Interior Department had not responded to the legal opinion as of Friday, gaming commission spokesman Shawn Pensoneau said.

Only one other Oklahoma casino is known to be outside trust land. That casino in Tahlequah, owned by the United Keetoowah Band, is embroiled in a federal lawsuit. State prosecutors and the Cherokee Nation want to close it, arguing that it is operating illegally.

In her letter, gaming commission attorney Penny Coleman wrote that the Osage Nation never surrendered its reservation. Several documents recognized by the Interior Department distinguish the Osage Reservation from jurisdictional areas governed by other Oklahoma tribes.

Norman said several other Oklahoma tribes would argue that they, too, still have reservations. That issue hasn't been litigated, he said.

Among the documents cited by Coleman was a 1994 letter from a regional interior official to the Oklahoma Water Resources Board, saying the agency had no authority to judge the tribe's right to use water within its reservation.

She also mentioned a 1997 gubernatorial proclamation recognizing Osage Day. The proclamation notes that "all of Osage County is the only federally recognized reservation remaining in Oklahoma."

Two legal experts said the reservation ruling doesn't appear to affect the property rights of Osage County residents.

Norman said it's common in reservations elsewhere for a majority of the population to be nontribal members.

Top
#212281 --- 08/08/05 09:33 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Ovidian Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 11435
Loc: gone
Quote:

Quote:

"what you propose "giving" verses taxes is not the way it can work."---And never will.


It does work and has been working a long time.


Yea, for you and yours. Everyone elses taxes go up with every parcel removed from the rolls.

Top
#212282 --- 08/08/05 09:52 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Gio Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 16476
Loc: Cleveland
I do not really care what you do with your land so long as you pay your fair share of taxes....
_________________________
Sending out healing energy 24/7

Proud PT Posse Member - Evil Brain Minion since 2008 - Doc's Boy



Top
#212283 --- 08/08/05 10:47 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
corruptionfightr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 2165
Quote:

I do not really care what you do with your land so long as you pay your fair share of taxes....




I think virtually everone agees with this statement.
_________________________
Click below for a report about Jim Larson, former SC Undersheriff: http://www.ots.treas.gov/enforcement/docs/93404.pdf

Top
#212284 --- 08/08/05 11:03 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"what you propose "giving" verses taxes is not the way it can work."---And never will.


It does work and has been working a long time.


Yea, for you and yours. Everyone elses taxes go up with every parcel removed from the rolls.


LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
#212285 --- 08/08/05 11:07 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

come, smoke and pay taxes


Come smoke and put land into trust.LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
#212286 --- 08/08/05 11:46 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Mysteryman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/08/04
Posts: 2173
Loc: laughing in your face
lets face it folks....it will never happen. Oh sure they will probably be neighbors but they will not be 'good' neighbors. They want want want and then they will want more more more.

Top
#212287 --- 08/08/05 11:51 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Ovidian Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 11435
Loc: gone
You lost--lolololololo

Top
#212288 --- 08/08/05 01:06 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
The court ruling stands the treaty is illegal. Ask the Osage what it takes to do away with a res. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
#212289 --- 08/08/05 01:09 PM Re: ferret sales on the increase
Gio Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 16476
Loc: Cleveland
why? and what does it mean?
_________________________
Sending out healing energy 24/7

Proud PT Posse Member - Evil Brain Minion since 2008 - Doc's Boy



Top
#212290 --- 08/08/05 03:51 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Quote:

The court ruling stands the treaty is illegal. Ask the Osage what it takes to do away with a res. LOL




Okla: Still stirring the pot? Just keep pushing, you "ain't" seen nothing yet.

Top
#212291 --- 08/08/05 04:47 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Quote:

The court ruling stands the treaty is illegal. Ask the Osage what it takes to do away with a res. LOL




Lets see how this stacks up.

1) The Seneca Cayuga lost it's claim to 64000 acres of land, in the appellate court and along with it its share of $250 million. No claim, no land, no money.

2) The Seneca Cayuga lost the ability to purchase land and declare it sovereign without going through the trust process. Then it is questionable whether the BIA will allow it. Part of the criteria for a trust application includes what is the need for it? Local government input, and approval by the State (Governor will be necessary, and so far that is very illusive. . They have agreed to pay over $70000 in overdue taxes on land they own in Cayuga Co. If it is not paid, the property will be foreclosed on and sold next year. If it isn't paid, the BIA will not even consider it for trust application. Oh yes, any land not in trust is subject to local law. (Sherrill decision)

3) They lost their bid for a casino in Aurelius, Throop, Auburn, Rochester, Sullivan County (two locations), and Saugerties. Those are the places I can recall off hand. Oh yes, the Rochester Ferry should be included. They are unable to put a casino on the Cayuga CO property without a state compact and that is dead in the water.

4) They lost their bid for a share of the Seneca Tribes claim in the Cuba, NY area.

5) Congress is at work to limit reservation shopping and off reservation casinos. In the case of the Seneca Cayuga who never had a reservation in New York their slim chance of success securing a casino in New York State seems to be unification with the Cayuga or Seneca Tribes. Otherwise they face continuos opposition from the Iroquois Nation. That is highly unlikely for greed will enter the picture.

6) The appellate court has stated they waited too long to file a claim (statue of limitations) aka laches. There is an appeal in process and that will affirm the court's ruling.

Top
#212292 --- 08/08/05 07:45 PM Re: ferret sales on the increase
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

why? and what does it mean?


It takes an act of congress to do away with a res. It means for the past 200 + years congress has refused to give approval of the treaty that took the Cayuga res. It means the claim will be settled by congress now that we could't get the courts to do it. And it may end up like the Osage have it. grinch this is not over like you would like people to think. Did you not read the book we talked about? We have a right to our homeland. As congress has said New York can come to the table or not. As most of us know the feds sided with us in this case.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

Top
#212293 --- 08/09/05 07:14 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
I read the book that says this is Cayuga and Seneca Co, a part of New York State that is governed by the United States of America. I am native to this area and it is my homeland and I and thousands of other people that reside here have rights to this area. Congress will not do anything that will disturb that. Call it the Cayuga Reservation if you like, but it was sold to New York State over 200 years ago and governed by them since.

Oh yes, it was New York State land prior to 1789. Great Britain who had clams to the area prior to that time ceded all rights to New York State, a Sovereign. There is an argument New York State never gave the Cayuga the land, merely allowed them use of it.


Edited by grinch (08/09/05 07:18 AM)

Top
Page 2 of 20 < 1 2 3 4 ... 19 20 >