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#212254 --- 08/06/05 02:25 PM Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
This question is for Cayuga county residents. All bad mouthing aside what would you like to see us do with our land? We are going to keep an open mind about what we could do so lets hear what you have to say.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212255 --- 08/06/05 03:22 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
SilverRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
How about letting the people who own the land make their own decisions about their property without threatening them every other year with loss of property. How about coming in and just being neighbors instead of with an arrogant "Independent Nation" mentality.
_________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#212256 --- 08/06/05 04:08 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

How about letting the people who own the land make their own decisions about their property without threatening them every other year with loss of property. How about coming in and just being neighbors instead of with an arrogant "Independent Nation" mentality.


I am talking about the land we own. And I am asking this question as a neighbor. We have 229 acers in Cayuga county what would you like to see this land used for?
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212257 --- 08/06/05 04:32 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
WilllOWisp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Seneca County
After the crap you have put these people through, do you really expect them to comment for you in a forum thread? Why bother even giving you a valid suggestion?
So Okla, you can stick that land where the sun don't shine, Ok.
_________________________
" Rich People Get Body guards, Poor People get Shot! "

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#212258 --- 08/06/05 04:37 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

After the crap you have put these people through, do you really expect them to comment for you in a forum thread? Why bother even giving you a valid suggestion?
So Okla, you can stick that land where the sun don't shine, Ok.


Bend over.LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212259 --- 08/06/05 06:43 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Ovidian Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 11435
Loc: gone
Actually as of lately I do believe you have just been bent over. Too bad, so sad.

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#212260 --- 08/06/05 07:14 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Rascal Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 17022
Loc: Brewerton, NY, USA
Quote:

Quote:

How about letting the people who own the land make their own decisions about their property without threatening them every other year with loss of property. How about coming in and just being neighbors instead of with an arrogant "Independent Nation" mentality.


I am talking about the land we own. And I am asking this question as a neighbor. We have 229 acers in Cayuga county what would you like to see this land used for?




Why not open a manufacturing business. We'll all be glad to give you tax breaks like every other legit business. However the tax breaks do not last forever.

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#212261 --- 08/06/05 07:18 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

How about letting the people who own the land make their own decisions about their property without threatening them every other year with loss of property. How about coming in and just being neighbors instead of with an arrogant "Independent Nation" mentality.


I am talking about the land we own. And I am asking this question as a neighbor. We have 229 acers in Cayuga county what would you like to see this land used for?




Why not open a manufacturing business. We'll all be glad to give you tax breaks like every other legit business. However the tax breaks do not last forever.


We will keep that in mind thanks.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212262 --- 08/06/05 08:09 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
I am from Seneca County but I would like to see a Class A entertainment center. Big names as well as a resort unlike any other in the immediate area, golf course would be nice too.

Don't forget the strippers and Adult entertainment too....
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Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#212263 --- 08/06/05 08:16 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

I am from Seneca County but I would like to see a Class A entertainment center. Big names as well as a resort unlike any other in the immediate area, golf course would be nice too.

Don't forget the strippers and Adult entertainment too....


We had a golf course in the first plan with a gaming center but who knows.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212264 --- 08/06/05 08:17 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Rascal Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 17022
Loc: Brewerton, NY, USA
Do all of your potential plans include a casino?

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#212265 --- 08/06/05 08:20 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Do all of your potential plans include a casino?


No they don't. We are looking at other things also.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212266 --- 08/06/05 08:23 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Rascal Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 17022
Loc: Brewerton, NY, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Do all of your potential plans include a casino?


No they don't. We are looking at other things also.




Personally I find the idea of one race of people having the financial advantage of gaming to be abhorent. I also hate the idea of indians not collecting tax on non indians.

What potential plans can you reveal that would try to take advantage of such an unfair advantage?

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#212267 --- 08/06/05 08:30 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do all of your potential plans include a casino?


No they don't. We are looking at other things also.




Personally I find the idea of one race of people having the financial advantage of gaming to be abhorent. I also hate the idea of indians not collecting tax on non indians.

What potential plans can you reveal that would try to take advantage of such an unfair advantage?


Chief Spicer will be in the area in the next week or so maybe he will reveal some of the plans we have for the land. I am only looking for things other then gaming we could do.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212268 --- 08/06/05 08:41 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Combine the entertainment with the Wine region - a sure hit, you guys got the cash to pull it off....do IT!
_________________________
Humble genius to the humanities & politicians

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#212269 --- 08/07/05 08:09 AM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
SilverRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
How about opening up a human services agency and supporting it with Indian funds so that Indians don't need to apply to a 'foreign government' for support? Then develop an Indian Share cropping farm like they have in Union Springs so that those of your tribe, who have such a burning desire to return to their homeland, can actually work the earth that's costing all of us thousands of dollars to defend.

For industry, if you could develop some place that would pay a living wage, that would be nice...and would help lower the numbers on the 'dole.' And, as Indians, I am sure you can pay people more than the US 'minimum wage.' Do Indian business have to pay pesky things like Social Security, etc?
_________________________
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

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#212270 --- 08/07/05 01:42 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

How about opening up a human services agency and supporting it with Indian funds so that Indians don't need to apply to a 'foreign government' for support? Then develop an Indian Share cropping farm like they have in Union Springs so that those of your tribe, who have such a burning desire to return to their homeland, can actually work the earth that's costing all of us thousands of dollars to defend.

For industry, if you could develop some place that would pay a living wage, that would be nice...and would help lower the numbers on the 'dole.' And, as Indians, I am sure you can pay people more than the US 'minimum wage.' Do Indian business have to pay pesky things like Social Security, etc?



You have some good ideas and we will look into them. Now what so many people don't understand is all our workers pay the same taxes as people working for any other business do. The Tribe pays all fed. taxes and some state and local taxes. If the business is on trust land the Tribe does not pay land taxes. If we make a profit we give to the area schools, police,and so on . Some business we have doen't have much profit but provides jobs and we are ok with that. Heres our problem even if we are not makeing a profit everyone still wants to tax what were doing. How long can we keep something open that loses money? Gaming is a high profit business so we can give freely to the area and still profit from gaming.

Then thrers the issue of sovereignty we have on our land. The area governments want controll over our government. And the right to governing our selfs is something we don't wish to give up. We do cooperate with other governments and that works good here in Oklahoma. I know things are not the same with all Tribe. I live in Osage county home of the Osage Indian Nation. One of the richest Tribes in America they employ 100s if not 1000s of non Tribal members. And they pay more then most other employers do. They help pay for roads they have their own fire and police that work together with the local governments. They put in water and gas lines in areas that couldn't otherwise have these services. The area I live in our water is piped over 7 miles and the Tribe paid for the line then gave the line to the city that the water comes from. The road that comes to the area I live in the Tribe gave the county over 2 million on its constriction. If the Tribes in your area don't operate like this then who loses the Tribe or the area? Some people would like everyone to think we come into an area and push everyone to do things our way. But thats not how we work, but we will not be pushed around and set down and take it.

We have a real business minded Chief that has hope of working with the Cayuga county people. I don't have that much hope that we can work together. And I would be happy to have the land placed into trust and build a longhouse and let Tribal members live on the land. But I will back our Chief and help any way I can. He will be in the area real soon to meet and talk about things the Tribe would like to do with our land. So if there is something area people would like to see us do or not doing then get out to meet Chief Spicer. A lot of the jobs we could make would go to local people.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#212271 --- 08/07/05 03:53 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Just come here as individuals, or as a tribe and agree to pay your taxes and obey the laws that are imposed on all. Nobody should object to that, just be ordinary, taxpaying law abiding citizens. Do not waive sovereignty in our faces in an area that has been under County, State and Federal control for more than 200 years. Do not pick and choose just which laws you wish to comply with or what taxes you are willing to pay. If you do that many would be willing to forget the 20 years of threats to take our homes, farms and businesses as your right and demanding unheard of sums of money. Yes, and the costs that were incurred in defending ourselves.

If you wish to work with us within the boundary of laws that are set down for all of us then do so and welcome. If you persist in picking and choosing which laws and taxes apply to you and your tribe then you will be constantly in court.

Taxes are imposed for the common good. They provide the funds that pay for necessary services that benefit us all. Pay them as we all must do, and you are welcome. When you do so you have the right to complain as we all do. If you are asked to pay more than your fair share you will find many people willing to back your complaint.

Zoning regulations are also for the common good. for instance you could not start a factory on land that is zoned for agriculture without applying for a variance. You cannot drill for gas or sink a well without a permit. A variance may or may not be granted depending on the type of business, operation, its effect on neighbors and other businesses. There are laws that regulate gambling as well as other enterprises. Sure it is inconvenient and frustrating at times. Nothing mysterious about it, just comply with the law. You want to be called a nation and rule your own people, do so on your land, but submit to those laws that are there for all of us.

It is a simply a matter of paying your taxes and obeying the laws the same as anyone else.


Edited by grinch (08/07/05 06:48 PM)

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#212272 --- 08/07/05 05:13 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
Okla: You have mentioned numerous times what "other" Tribes are doing, but never put a dollar figure on what the Seneca Cayuga do or have done. Why don't you say you funded a fire department, or a school or a road etc. No new firm or business comes into an area and is immediately asked for "donations". You say we wish to tax you even though the business may not be profitable. Sorry, that is the way it works. None of us like that, but any good business model should take that into account before the business is begun. You keep mentioning jobs and what you will "give" to the area. Nobody is asking for anything other than what we all have to do. Sovereignty lurks in the background of most of your posts, and what you propose "giving" verses taxes is not the way it can work. Apply for various tax abatement programs that are available to all. That should provide a competitive advantage for your tribe.

That of course, may not be what you have in mind.

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#212273 --- 08/07/05 06:31 PM Re: Seneca-Cayuga land
Ovidian Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 11435
Loc: gone
"what you propose "giving" verses taxes is not the way it can work."---And never will.

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