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#171795 --- 05/19/05 08:50 PM Going to Pieces
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Check out this web site: http://www.EQUILOCUS.COM

[the documentary and book cover 17 areas across the country including the Salamanca 16, Cayuga & Oneida land claims - I highly recommend ordering this book and DVD]

The Dismantling of the United States of America

A national DOCUMENTARY DVD and accompanying book exposing the factual real-time destruction of American Indian rights as well as the rights of all other Americans and their state's sovereignty by Federal Indian Policy.

Congress must halt and then end this destructive, unaccountable, racist and unconstitutional legislation.

Divisive tribalism in America can no longer be ignored.

To order please contact:
http://www.EQUILOCUS.COM

Oppression, violence, loss of civil & property rights....

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#171796 --- 05/19/05 10:50 PM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
"The Dismantling of the United States of America" And how many Tribes did the states diemantle to become the US.
Congress must follow the laws of this land they made deals with the Tribes that have to be kept. "Oppression, violence, loss of civil & property rights..." Oppression. violence and illegal dealings took or property rights but thats alright we are just Indians. But remember what Bush wants Bush gets. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171797 --- 05/20/05 06:22 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Okla...you keep saying "remember, what Bush wants, Bush gets,lol"...well did you forget that Bush will not be president forever "lol", and this could be held up in courts for years "lol" and the fact is, Bush does NOT always get what bush wants. Period.

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#171798 --- 05/20/05 09:51 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Your right but Bush or the next pres. will follow the Constitution and fed. laws and treaties. Remember the oath they take when elected to that office. The uce and others like them have been fighting to take our rights and do away with Tribal governments for over 200 years. They have lost every time and we are still here to fight them and the next ones that come along. We are getting stronger and richer by the day. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171799 --- 05/20/05 10:45 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Twodogs Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 72
Loc: Wy do you ask ?
We are getting stronger and richer by the day. LOL

--------------------
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe

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#171800 --- 05/20/05 10:48 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Quote:

We are getting stronger and richer by the day. LOL

--------------------
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe





Sounds more like to me that you want the money more than your "forefather's tribal land"...that your "heritage" does not mean as much as the almighty dollar...at least with that statement, Okla and Twodogs.

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#171801 --- 05/20/05 11:02 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Quote:

We are getting stronger and richer by the day. LOL

--------------------
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe





Sounds more like to me that you want the money more than your "forefather's tribal land"...that your "heritage" does not mean as much as the almighty dollar...at least with that statement, Okla and Twodogs.


We already have some of the land back now pay us the 247 mil. and we will buy more land back with that money. So you see money or land its all the same if you have land you have money, if you have money land is easy to get. So it doesn't matter give us the money and we can use it to buy land or give us the land back.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171802 --- 05/20/05 11:06 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Thank you for clarifying your real stance: money money money....not really about getting the tribal land back, but using the tribal land to make an almighty buck. Such warm tradition in your words. I am sure your forefathers are proud of you.

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#171803 --- 05/20/05 11:09 AM Re: Going to Pieces
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Okla's elders fought against the colonists and lost.

Usually, the losing party in a war is luck to get away with the clothes on their back or even their lives.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#171804 --- 05/20/05 11:12 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

I am sure your forefathers are proud of you.


Don't you wish you could say the same thing about your self. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171805 --- 05/20/05 11:14 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
I ost certainly can say it with pride...and without trying to take someone's land or money in the name of my "forefathers".

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#171806 --- 05/20/05 11:24 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

I ost certainly can say it with pride...and without trying to take someone's land or money in the name of my "forefathers".


It was your forefathers that took our land, the land you now call yours.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171807 --- 05/20/05 11:25 AM Re: Going to Pieces
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
The land was paid for. Your elders have the money from the land. Sorry that you did not get your piece of the 'pie'.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#171808 --- 05/20/05 11:29 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

The land was paid for. Your elders have the money from the land. Sorry that you did not get your piece of the 'pie'.


No it wasn't your just renting. Now pay your rent or get off our land.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171809 --- 05/20/05 11:31 AM Re: Going to Pieces
Strawberry Jam Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 34421
Loc: Herkimer County NY
Wrong, it was my forefather's who WON the land in a war. You lost. You left, you took money then for retribution. Move on.
But in effect, my forefather's did not come here until later in the 1800's from my recollection. My forefathers would be proud of me that I do not try to swindle people out of land/money over and over again.
Native Americans have had a long proud heritage. In some instances I almost agreed with you Okla, until that statement about "getting richer and stronger". Your forefather's had no idea about "money" and being "rich" until the "white man" landed. Their riches were found in the land itself, and themselves. Stronger? No, weaker...morally speaking.

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#171810 --- 05/20/05 11:38 AM Re: Going to Pieces
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Quote:

Quote:

The land was paid for. Your elders have the money from the land. Sorry that you did not get your piece of the 'pie'.


No it wasn't your just renting. Now pay your rent or get off our land.




The US wants to be reimubursed for the land that you reside on-you are renting this land- now pay your rent or get off the land.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#171811 --- 05/20/05 11:51 AM Re: Going to Pieces
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Quote:

Quote:

The land was paid for. Your elders have the money from the land. Sorry that you did not get your piece of the 'pie'.


No it wasn't your just renting. Now pay your rent or get off our land.




If we are just renting then why do you have to BUY the land back?? (Because you are wrong)
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#171812 --- 05/20/05 02:24 PM Re: Going to Pieces
E. Mousie Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 15851
Loc: in my suite in the bookcase!
sheesh, can't blame me for any of it, I didn't arrive in America until 1965 or so, and my folks came from Lithuania. I've read all I can and all I can say is ridiculous, you heard the Supreme Court decision, so take a deep breath and start getting realistic.
_________________________
sanity......hmmm, I can't even remember what that is!

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#171813 --- 05/20/05 10:42 PM Re: Going to Pieces
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Quote:

Wrong, it was my forefather's who WON the land in a war. You lost. You left, you took money then for retribution. Move on.
But in effect, my forefather's did not come here until later in the 1800's from my recollection. My forefathers would be proud of me that I do not try to swindle people out of land/money over and over again.
Native Americans have had a long proud heritage. In some instances I almost agreed with you Okla, until that statement about "getting richer and stronger". Your forefather's had no idea about "money" and being "rich" until the "white man" landed. Their riches were found in the land itself, and themselves. Stronger? No, weaker...morally speaking.


Wrong again the land we claim we had after the war. The treaties made that took our land were illegal.
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#171814 --- 05/21/05 12:39 AM Re: Going to Pieces
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Ray Halbritter, the leader of the Oneida Indian Nation in upstate New York, is one of the wealthiest men in the state, according to other members of the tribe.

Halbritter has positioned himself as head of the extremely profitable Turning Stone casino on the reservation, which earns about $217 million in annual profits from over 2.5 million visitors per year, according to the Manhattan consulting group Christiansen Capital Advisors, and Halbritter is also the acting CEO of various for-profit companies under the umbrella of Oneida Inc. The Oneida Inc. enterprises, including construction, gas stations, land development, textiles and home cookware, employ about 2,000 people, making Oneida Inc. one of the largest employers in central New York. Though these enterprises function exactly like corporations, they are able to take advantage of the tax exempt status offered to Indian tribes. Halbritter also owns a media company, which among other things publishes the widely circulated newspaper Indian Country Today.

But many in the Oneida tribe say he is far from a progressive and generous force. Rather, they say, he has continued the tradition of oppression and control suffered by Indians at the hands of the U.S. government, and has in fact taken it upon himself to strip his people of their traditions and bind them under his control as part of his plan for profit. Not only that, but in the process his leadership has undermined the traditional matriarchial and democratic traditions of the Iroquois, with a patriarchal Men's Council that mirrors the white power structure of secrecy and exclusiveness rather than the inclusive, collective structure set up by the Iroquois League of Nations hundreds of years ago and followed by many tribes to this day.

"Among the Iroquois there is no such thing as a leader or king," said Danielle Patterson, Halbritter's cousin and outspoken opponent. "What Halbritter has done is taken this democratic form of government and turned it into a dictatorship.

In the mid-1980s Halbritter and two other Oneida men were appointed interim custodians of the tribe, called "peacekeepers" or "eyes and ears" for the Onondaga Grand Council. Each represented a different Wolf Clan, the traditional leadership structure of the tribe. They were supposed to turn over power to an elected leadership when the time came, and to respect the traditional, matriarchal and democratic leadership structures which centered around the Wolf Clan Mothers.

But, in 1990 after the other two interim leaders died, Halbritter took the opportunity to start seizing total control. He appointed a "Men's Council," something which is unheard of in Iroquois matrilineal tradition, and began making new laws and policies governing the lives of the tribe. He also started the for-profit company Oneida Inc. and named himself the CEO, with the Men's Council functioning as a sort of Board of Directors.

He staged a coup against the remaining vestiges of traditional leadership. One day the Wolf Clan went to the traditional Long House for their meeting, only to find the locks had been changed by Halbritter and the Men's Council, who were using it exclusively for their meetings. Halbritter hired a 50-plus-member private police force, which is not recognized by the county or state police, many of them non-Native. They have been widely charged with physical abuse and intimidation in carrying out Halbritter's wishes. Many call them "goons," a term which originated to describe the thuggish private police on the Pine Ridge reservation. Halbritter also set up a tribal court staffed with his own supporters and subject to his final say on all appeals.

In 1993 Halbritter won approval from the state and local government, including then Gov. Mario Cuomo, for construction of the Turning Stone casino, which soon became a vastly successful enterprise with reported profits of $217 million per year.

Halbritter violated tradition by making the casino deal without input from the tribe, fostering the nascient opposition to his leadership. The deal was also in violation of a 1988 ruling by the Indian Gaming Commission that required a tribal referendum before the construction of a casino.

In 1993 the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois Confederacy) Grand Council refused to recognize Halbritter's authority as leader of the Oneida.

That year the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) also ruled that Halbritter's leadership was in fact illegal and invalid. But in just 24 hours the BIA had reversed their position, many say at the urging of New York elected officials, namely Congressman Sherwood Boehlert, and Sen. Alphonse D'Amato, who were known as gambling supporters and cronies of Halbritter.

Like many tribes, tribal members receive regular pay-outs of the casino profits, anywhere from $1,100 per month to about $5,000 per year according to different people. But many say that rather than uplifting the overall socioeconomic status of the reservation, the casino revenue has served as a tool for Halbritter to retain his stranglehold on power. Those who oppose him don't receive the casino benefits or other tribal benefits including college scholarships, insurance and health coverage.

"People are afraid to speak out because they are afraid to lose their housing and benefits," said Patterson. "It's a whole brainwashing theory he has to make people codependent. He has 'woodwork Oneidas' who support him, people who came out of the woodwork when they heard about the casino. Those people are so misled they don't know who they are. Many of them relocated here from Syracuse or other cities [after the casino revenue started flowing.]"

Patterson also noted that though they get stipends from the casino, many Oneida are paying that money right back to Oneida Inc. because they rent homes on Oneida Inc.-developed for-profit rental housing, such as a development called White Pines.
"A lot of our people are still at or near the poverty level, many are on welfare, while he's getting all this money from the casino," she said. "At White Pines it is all rental, there is no ownership, and the police control every aspect of it. They're paying the money he gave them right back to him in $500 or $1,000 per month rent."

In 1995, many Oneida protested in a March for Democracy opposing Halbritter's leadership. Many of them had their cash and benefits terminated. Other demonstrations against Halbritter's authority over the years have also resulted in people losing their benefits and intimidation and violence by the tribal police.

Opponents of Halbritter note that his leadership doesn't fall under either of the two accepted forms of Indian government, traditional roles inherited through the tribe or elected governments.

"Without a trial or hearing we have been found guilty by the Men's Council of conspiring with the Confederacy, meeting with Wisconsin Oneida and being in the company of unnamed, apparently dangerous 'Canadians,'" wrote Diane Shenandoah, Halbritter's cousin and another major critic. "Halbritter has taken away our benefits while denying us, at risk of arrest, access to our Oneida facilities, including the Long House. He has punished Oneida for speaking to the press, enacted ordinances which are unknown to residents and passed laws which he can change on a whim."
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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