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#162710 --- 04/23/05 02:56 PM Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Festus. Offline
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Registered: 05/05/02
Posts: 1728
Loc: The Leader of the Banned
Tribe's gas pumps tested

By The Citizen
The gasoline pumps at the Cayuga Indian Nation's Lake Side Trading convenience store in Union Springs now have Cayuga County's seal of approval.

After a few weeks of talks following a U.S. Supreme Court decision that said Indian-owned land is not automatically sovereign, the county's weights and measures inspector spent three and half hours at the station Friday testing equipment.

County officials believe the decision last month in the city of Sherrill v. Oneida Indian Nation case gave them authority to test the pumps, just as they could any other business. But tribal officials continue to insist the land is sovereign, and they've applied to the federal Bureau of Indian Affairs to put their holdings in a trust to ensure that status.

Both sides agreed to the inspection on Friday on the condition that each side is not giving up future legal claims.

"They are not giving up their claim to sovereign rights, and we did not agree that they have those rights," county Legislature Chairman Herb Marshall said.

The Cayugas initially wanted to have its own inspectors review the pumps while the county's inspector observed, but the county insisted on doing its own testing, Marshall said.

Both Marshall and Daniel French, an attorney representing the Cayugas in the matter, said the testing took place without incident.

"It was a culmination of a cooperative agreement between the

nation and the county," French said. "We're pleased that it worked out well."

Marshall went to the station with the county inspectors, he said, to make sure things went smoothly.

He did say the inspector found two minor problems with the pumps, which were both corrected immediately.

In one case, a pump nozzle was not turning off properly. In the other, a pump was giving customers too much gasoline for their dollar.


http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2005/04/23/news/news03.txt
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#162711 --- 04/23/05 03:03 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
WilllOWisp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Seneca County
That's interesting. I thought I had just read where they said "no". I'm glad they complied. I have one question though. After the inspectors leave, is it possible to cheat the consumers by altering the pumps or does the W and M have control over that? I don't know that much about gas stations. I would think it would be easy to be "ready" for the inspectors and then go back to business as usual after they leave. I could be wrong.
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#162712 --- 04/23/05 04:40 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
The entire exercise was to show the Cayugas are agreeable to inspections, IF, you do not try to assert your legal authority to do so. They have no legal right to dictate if or when they are inspected. The way this service station was inspected did very little to reassure the consumer that he has been getting what he paid for. Giving a heads up we are coming tells you what? Have things in order. Little obvious one pump dispensed more than it was suppose to for the dollar and none were short. Coincidence? Wow, imagine that. This service station should have been inspected the same as any other, unannounced. That might do more to convince people than this farce. I would believe the seal of the Weights and Measure department would be placed in such a way that any alteration would be readily apparent upon a return visit. A return visit should be in order to verify the seal is in place. I am not sure, but I believe they are only inspected once a year unless service to the pumps were necessary.

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#162713 --- 04/23/05 05:05 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
A side note to the SenecaCo authorities. You are excercising your legal authority to inspect those pumps according to the law as it is written. The Cayugas do not have any legal authority to say no. The Cayuga should not dictate to you if or when they will allow inspections. I doubt you will find anything wrong after all the publicity. If you are successful in checking the pumps that is really not the question. The legal principles remains the same, who is the controlling authority here, the Cayuga or Seneca Co? The law indicates you are. Do not give into their demands.

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#162714 --- 04/23/05 05:59 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Mike Smith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 1638
Loc: out there
Quote:

a pump was giving customers too much gasoline for their dollar.




Hmmm... If I were the suspicious type, I'd say they may have deliberately made the pump generous for the inspection for the good publicity.

"Hey Vern - didja hear? Not only do them Injuns gots cheap gas, their pumps give ya more than their suppose ta!!"
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#162715 --- 04/23/05 08:10 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
WilllOWisp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Seneca County
They'll be flocking in to get gas now. LOL
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#162716 --- 04/23/05 10:42 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
What, again you didn't get what you wanted.LOL See just as always the Indians give in and you want more. But hey they did stop the customers from getting more then they thought they were getting. I bet the inspector got a pat on the back for that from the Indians.LOL
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#162717 --- 04/23/05 11:45 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
In Union Springs, the tribe had their own inspectors check out the pumps on Monday. I work for the village. Thought it was strange because I thought it was the county doing it and knew they had planned to check out the pumps on Tuesday. Nope, the county wasn't a day early. In fact they were rescheduled to Wednesday.

I really don't know if any changes were made, but I didn't expect the county to find anything wrong knowing that the tribe was covering their butt.

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#162718 --- 04/24/05 11:04 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
the above posts only prove what okla and myself have been saying.no matter what the tribes do it will never be enough for some people.they just got to find a way to keep bashing. no credit for nothing.
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#162719 --- 04/24/05 11:05 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Quote:

A side note to the SenecaCo authorities. You are excercising your legal authority to inspect those pumps according to the law as it is written. The Cayugas do not have any legal authority to say no. The Cayuga should not dictate to you if or when they will allow inspections. I doubt you will find anything wrong after all the publicity. If you are successful in checking the pumps that is really not the question. The legal principles remains the same, who is the controlling authority here, the Cayuga or Seneca Co? The law indicates you are. Do not give into their demands.





is it not a fact that all injunctions are still in place till after hurd rules again?
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#162720 --- 04/24/05 11:10 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
If they are, the counties should immediately appeal his rulings and have them overturned. He must consider it in view of Sherrill.

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#162721 --- 04/24/05 11:28 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
didn't sherrill say the ruling had to go back to hurd. so you want sherrill appealed? we already know hurd has to rerule considering sherrill.but it was also said it is not always a speedy process.
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#162722 --- 04/24/05 11:40 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Actually Grinch, I thought the same thing as Sworldt "is it not a fact that all injunctions are still in place till after hurd rules again?"

But Bill Dorr said the laws could now be enforced.

As for Hurd re-ruling, yes, he has to abide by the Sherrill case and reverse his prior ruling. He has no choice. So it's not a decision we would have to challenge. As for being man enough to admit he was wrong in the first place may take some time.

However, factors being what they are considering the Sherrill ruling and considering Hurd may drag his feet, a court injunction is a valid request.

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#162723 --- 04/24/05 11:56 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Sworldt: Our concepts of "bashing" must be different. All I stated were the facts with one opinion being I didn't expect the county inspectors to find anything wrong.

The unmentioned bias comes from the news media NOT mentioning the whole story, but rather giving the tribe tens of thousands of dollars of free publicity as front page news claiming people were getting more than they were paying for.

There's more than a possibility that wasn't happening up until two days prior to the county testing. Independent testing several months ago with premeasured 5 gallon cans showed just the opposite. That's another fact.

Oops, there I go "bashing" again.

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#162724 --- 04/24/05 12:18 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
WilllOWisp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Seneca County
I think the "news people" should do a reprint and state the "truth" I call that Foul reporting. I will make sure I spread the truth about the "inspection" to my friends. Thanks Dick Tallcot.
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#162725 --- 04/24/05 01:24 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Quote:

Sworldt: Our concepts of "bashing" must be different. All I stated were the facts with one opinion being I didn't expect the county inspectors to find anything wrong.

The unmentioned bias comes from the news media NOT mentioning the whole story, but rather giving the tribe tens of thousands of dollars of free publicity as front page news claiming people were getting more than they were paying for.

There's more than a possibility that wasn't happening up until two days prior to the county testing. Independent testing several months ago with premeasured 5 gallon cans showed just the opposite. That's another fact.

Oops, there I go "bashing" again.





first you have no room in complaining of someone not telling the whole story as this is one of your favorites.tell only what part of an article that supports your point of view.the newspapers have been very generous to you and the uce over the years.

as to publicity you use every oppurtunity to use the press to get your name ( uce ) in the paper.after meetings i don't see scott looking for public opinion,but you make sure you get your opinion in the press.and don't you call the press for every little move you make and more so than the tribes.

and yes your independent 5 gallon uce story.isn't it true this is the same story the uce tells every time you can when the UCE went to a station and pumped 5 gallons of gas into a container and you claim it was short.Why would anyone believe the uce as you are just as bias as the ones your complaining about.so why didn't you just say the uce performed the test?


Bashing is when one twists or misleads to have a negative affect on a person or persons.
god forbid one might think the uce might do this.lololol
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#162726 --- 04/24/05 01:28 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Dick: While i have your attention.would you mind replacing the worn flags on your signs and picking up the ones that have blown onto the ground.it is your right to fly them,but you could at least respect them.
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#162727 --- 04/26/05 09:50 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
We do just that several times a year and have been doing spring maintenance.

Yes, we do respect the flag, unlike the NY Cayuga who don't lower their US flag to half mast when everyone else does, or pledge to the flag at open meetings.

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#162728 --- 04/27/05 12:43 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Quote:

We do just that several times a year and have been doing spring maintenance.

Yes, we do respect the flag, unlike the NY Cayuga who don't lower their US flag to half mast when everyone else does, or pledge to the flag at open meetings.




Don't try and twist it off to someone else.You never allow the US flag to lay on the ground or even touch the ground.and you don't wait for spring maintance to pick them up.your sorry excuse don't cut with me.you use them than maintain them with RESPECT.... your actions speak louder than your words.
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#162729 --- 04/27/05 06:54 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Quote:

your sorry excuse don't cut with me.you use them than maintain them with RESPECT.... your actions speak louder than your words.




Sworldt you are by far the biggest hypocrite on this forum. Sworldt - your actions speak louder than words. You hate the US but yet you enjoy all the freedoms and benefits that the US has to offer. You have the audacity to criticize others while your position is far more negative than the points that you bring to light.

Why have you deleted your signature ------- Stop the Hate????? did you look at yourself and find fault in yourself??



STOP THE HATE...........
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#162730 --- 04/27/05 11:24 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Quote:

Quote:

your sorry excuse don't cut with me.you use them than maintain them with RESPECT.... your actions speak louder than your words.




Sworldt you are by far the biggest hypocrite on this forum. Sworldt - your actions speak louder than words. You hate the US but yet you enjoy all the freedoms and benefits that the US has to offer. You have the audacity to criticize others while your position is far more negative than the points that you bring to light.

Why have you deleted your signature ------- Stop the Hate????? did you look at yourself and find fault in yourself??



STOP THE HATE...........





you are so full of sh-- its oozing. what actions have i done that you are speaking of.you run off at the keyboard with no idea of what your typing about.where have i ever said i hated the u.s. and yes i enjoy every freedom this country offers and why shouldn't i as i have fought to preserve evryones rights.as i have stated i would never advocate to overthrow either the tribal goverments or the us gov.so you go ahead and keep posting your lies and all the other crap you live in it is your right as many americans have died to preserve them for you.and when i say americans i also include the many enrolled tribal members who have fought and died to protect us soil.
as to my signature line.i removed it because of people like you.nobody can bring a community back together when they are dead set to destroy themselves.you want to destroy your community go ahead.
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#162731 --- 04/27/05 01:29 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Quote:

where have i ever said i hated the u.s. and yes i enjoy every freedom this country offers and why shouldn't i as i have fought to preserve evryones rights.as i have stated i would never advocate to overthrow either the tribal goverments or the us gov.so you go ahead and keep posting your lies and all the other crap you live in it is your right as many americans have died to preserve them for you.and when i say americans i also include the many enrolled tribal members who have fought and died to protect us soil.
as to my signature line.i removed it because of people like you.nobody can bring a community back together when they are dead set to destroy themselves.you want to destroy your community go ahead.










and what tribes fought AGAINST the colonists??????????
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#162732 --- 04/27/05 03:44 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Quote:

where have i ever said i hated the u.s. and yes i enjoy every freedom this country offers and why shouldn't i as i have fought to preserve evryones rights.as i have stated i would never advocate to overthrow either the tribal goverments or the us gov.so you go ahead and keep posting your lies and all the other crap you live in it is your right as many americans have died to preserve them for you.and when i say americans i also include the many enrolled tribal members who have fought and died to protect us soil. as to my signature line.i removed it because of people like you.nobody can bring a community back together when they are dead set to destroy themselves.you want to destroy your community go ahead.





You fought to preserve everyones rights - but it is acceptable that there are two classes of individuals - those that play by the rules and ones that do not. Taxpayers and non-taxpayers (indians)

You would never advocate to overthrow another government. What war did you fight in???? Did this war overthrow another government????

You include the enrolled tribal members as americans. What do you considered enrolled? And those tribal members that are not enrolled should they not have these same american freedoms???? Are the tribes sovereign or are they not sovereign??? I guess that depends on if they do not want to pay taxes (sovereign) or if they want a monetary payment from the US government (not sovereign).


Two-faced..........
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#162733 --- 04/27/05 03:56 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Quote:

i enjoy every freedom this country offers and why shouldn't i as i have fought to preserve evryones rights.as i have stated i would never advocate to overthrow either the tribal goverments or the us gov.so you go ahead and keep posting your lies and all the other crap you live in it is your right as many americans have died to preserve them for you.and when i say americans i also include the many enrolled tribal members who have fought and died to protect us soil.
as to my signature line.i removed it because of people like you.nobody can bring a community back together when they are dead set to destroy themselves.you want to destroy your community go ahead.





If you were to ask any veteran if they fought so that there would be a two class system in the US - would they feel that is the reason that they risked their lives. To risks their lives to come back to the US and have individuals that do not have to pay taxes, do not have to conduct themselves as others, work with different standards as others, play by different rules, have individuals that do not have to pay their fair share but yet get the same if not more benfits and freedoms that the veterans risked their lives for.

I have family members that have lost their lives in the fought but I guess you can stand their and defend the indians and allow them to not pay taxes, local school taxes, county, city, local, social security, infrastruture, gas (for bridges and roads), cig taxes....


















Do not insult ----------- You have survived the fought by my family members have LOST theirs................
























I guess that you are saying that you will pay my school taxes, my county taxes, my local taxes, my gas taxes, my utility taxes, employment taxes... and that would be acceptable to you.

If you will not pay my taxes then why should I pay for others that do not????????????


.
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#162734 --- 04/27/05 10:59 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
First of all.My respect to those who have lost thier lives for this country.i also have family lost to war.But make no mistake when i volunteered for vietnam out of high school i took an oath to defend this country and our way of life from foreign and domestic enemies.that oath was sworn to with the federal goverment of this country.the federal goverment gave the tribes the rights they have today.the federal goverment set-up our system and if they believed the tribes would co-exist with us within our borders than so do i.the tribes pay federal taxes the same as anyone.thier soveriegn rights say they are free from local taxes and authority.our federal goverment gave the tribes thier rights and who are you to try and exterminate those rights.you yourself are going against your federal goverment.you are with a group who seems to think it is ok to demand those things they are not willing to do them selves ( pay Taxes )you are with a group who uses intimidation on those who oppose them,your group is quitely violating people basic freedoms.but you call the tribes a threat when the US federal goverment is on thier side.
I stand with the US fed. goverment and i also stand with the tribes gov..
and if you are not able to accept or understand this post,than tough this is my opinion.......
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#162735 --- 04/28/05 03:39 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Re sworldt: our federal goverment gave the tribes thier rights and who are you to try and exterminate those rights.

What the government giveth, the government can taketh away. Congress has plenary power over tribes.

WE are not trying to, nor do we have the authority to, exterminate anything, but rather merely working with "our" elected government representatives to promote equality under the law and within the three branches of government to ask the courts to uphold the Constitution. It's like Dave Barker, Sherrill City Manager, said: it never was about the money, it was about quality of life.

And don't go making up things about what the Constitution said. Indians are only mentioned twice, one deals with voter apportionment and the other deals with trade.

Why are you so opposed to this democratic republic system of government of, by and for the people that we both fought to sustain? USAF '68 - '72.

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#162736 --- 04/28/05 05:45 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Quote:

Re sworldt: our federal goverment gave the tribes thier rights and who are you to try and exterminate those rights.

What the government giveth, the government can taketh away. Congress has plenary power over tribes.

WE are not trying to, nor do we have the authority to, exterminate anything, but rather merely working with "our" elected government representatives to promote equality under the law and within the three branches of government to ask the courts to uphold the Constitution. It's like Dave Barker, Sherrill City Manager, said: it never was about the money, it was about quality of life.

And don't go making up things about what the Constitution said. Indians are only mentioned twice, one deals with voter apportionment and the other deals with trade.

Why are you so opposed to this democratic republic system of government of, by and for the people that we both fought to sustain? USAF '68 - '72.





your sitting there telling me that it is ok to overthrow a goverment, our federal gov. gave the tribes.now you don't like what has been in place for over 200 years, you want to destroy it.when will people like you decide we shouldn't have the right to read what we want or any other our freedoms, rights and decide it is time to change this as well.

" What the government giveth, the government can taketh away. Congress has plenary power over tribes. "

the above statement made by you says it all.
so is this to also say the goverment can remove our rights as they were also given by the goverment.
Why are you so opposed to working with the tribes?instead of exterminating their rights.
The tribes gov. has been with us for more than 200 years your hate group hasn't.the tribes are not a threat to this country,but people with ideas such as your is.You are the threat we face.
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#162737 --- 04/28/05 09:37 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Dick:your qoute


"And don't go making up things about what the Constitution said. Indians are only mentioned twice, one deals with voter apportionment and the other deals with trade. "

first i don't make things up i leave that to you and yours.You are of aware we were discussing the U.S. Constitution and not N.Y.


Edited by sworldt (04/28/05 09:38 PM)
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#162738 --- 04/28/05 09:46 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Quote:

Quote:

where have i ever said i hated the u.s. and yes i enjoy every freedom this country offers and why shouldn't i as i have fought to preserve evryones rights.as i have stated i would never advocate to overthrow either the tribal goverments or the us gov.so you go ahead and keep posting your lies and all the other crap you live in it is your right as many americans have died to preserve them for you.and when i say americans i also include the many enrolled tribal members who have fought and died to protect us soil.
as to my signature line.i removed it because of people like you.nobody can bring a community back together when they are dead set to destroy themselves.you want to destroy your community go ahead.










and what tribes fought AGAINST the colonists??????????







And if you care to check history you will find in some cases where the young warriors of the cayuga nation were accused of a few raids on some settlers.it was later discovered some of those raids were in fact non-indians dressed as indians so they could rob and murder and blame it on the indians.if your going to tell a story tell the whole story not parts of it that suits you.
and by the way destroying an entire nations crops and live stock and homes before the worse winter in a long time is real humane.how many children froze and starved to death for the greed of a few non-indians.
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#162739 --- 04/28/05 09:54 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Oneidas to join annual March for Parks
Event raises money for programs at Saratoga National Historical Park

By KENNETH C. CROWE II, Staff writer
First published: Thursday, April 28, 2005

STILLWATER -- Saratoga National Historical Park will get a financial boost as its supporters join the Oneida Indians, allies of the Americans in the Revolutionary War, to turn out Saturday for the 12th annual March for Parks.
Sponsored by the Friends of Saratoga Battlefield, the march raises funds for activities at the battlefield where an American Army defeated a British Army in the two Battles of Saratoga in 1777.

This year, the Friends of Saratoga Battlefield celebrate the theme "Allies in War and Partners in Peace."

The event draws attention to the Oneida, the first allies of the American revolutionary cause.

Members of the Oneida Nation will join Assemblyman Roy J. McDonald, R-Wilton, for the opening ceremony at the battlefield on routes 4 and 32.

The March for Parks will be held from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the park. Those people walking, biking or joining a guided historic walk in the park will raise funds for the Arts in the Park program held at the battlefield. A person raising $15 will receive a free coffee mug or decorative ceramic tile. Those who raise $25 receive a t-shirt.

Other events include free refreshments, live fiddle music, face-painting, a silent auction, Tenkara Karate demonstrations, live radio broadcasts and appearances by Smokey Bear, McGruff the Crime Fighting Dog and Twinkle the Bear.

The March for Parks will be held rain or shine. For more information, call Friends Chairman Larry Arnold at 421-8092 or the Saratoga National Historical Park Visitor Center at 664-9821 Ext. 227.

At 1:30 p.m. Sunday, the national park will sponsor "Memoirs of an Irishman at Saratoga Battlefield" at the visitors center.

Author Don Hagist will discuss Sgt. Roger Lamb, an Irishman who served with the British Army in the Battles of Saratoga.

Hagist will speak about his new book, "A British Soldier's Story: Roger Lamb's Narrative of the American Revolution." Hagist is editor of "General Orders, Rhode Island: December 1776-January 1778."

Hagist will discuss the British Army during the war, and how Lamb's career, literacy and work as a teacher in the army compare to perceptions of British soldiers during that time.




http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=355326&category=SARATOGA&BCCode=&newsdate=4/28/2005
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#162740 --- 04/29/05 06:20 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
WAMPSVILLE, N.Y. Madison County has filed a court motion seeking to foreclose on nearly 100 properties owned by the Oneida Indian Nation.

The county wants a state Supreme Court judgment that the Oneidas have failed to pay 2.3 (m) million dollars in property taxes. County attorney John Campanie calls it -- quote -- "an ordinary tax foreclosure hearing."

Oneida nation spokesman Mark Emery declined comment, saying they were not aware of the proceedings.

The Oneidas have amassed about 17-thousand acres in Madison and Oneida counties, including Turning Stone Casino. Municipal leaders say they got the green light to collect taxes last month when the U-S Supreme Court ruled the nation cannot claim sovereignty on land that's been outside its reservation for generations.

The tribe since has applied to the federal government to hold all its lands in trust, which would make them permanently free from taxes and local laws.

.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#162741 --- 04/29/05 01:09 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Quote:

Originally posted at:
http://www.fltimes.com/Main.asp?SectionID=38&SubSectionID=121&ArticleID=8153




SENECA FALLS — The Cayuga Indian Nation must let Seneca County’s director of Weights and Measures inspect gas pumps at the Route 89 LakeSide Trading Co. or fight the matter in court.

Sheriff’s deputies Thursday served Nation representative Clint Halftown and store employees with a court order prohibiting interference. Halftown was personally served by Sheriff Leo Connolly at the Nation’s local headquarters at Fall and State streets.

County Attorney Steven Getman obtained the court order late Wednesday from Judge Dennis Bender under the state’s Agriculture and Markets law.

Getman said no gasoline pump is to be operated without proper inspections and proper weights. Fines are also being sought. They would range from $250 a day to $10,000 in the case of failure to allow the gasoline to be tested for proper octane and chemical composition.

Getman said Weight and Measures Director Sue Sauvageau went to inspect the pumps April 14 but was refused access and told to get a court order. Getman said he anticipates any fines would run from that date.

Daniel French, a lawyer for the Syracuse firm Green & Seifter, which represents part of the Nation, is still hoping to be able to reach an agreement similar to one worked out with Cayuga County.


French said the order and its supporting documentation will be reviewed and available legal options will be considered. He said the county would be contacted again to see if the parties can sit down and try to work out an agreement similar to the one reached with Cayuga County, which conditionally allowed pump inspections.

Getman said the Nation, under the Cayuga County arrangement, agreed to let its pumps be inspected on a limited basis while preserving its claim of tribal rights such as freedom from taxation and complying with other local laws.

He said Seneca County wanted additional language in their proposed agreement, which didn’t waive the right to contest the land claim or other forms of sovereignty, such as the trust application process.

“Apparently, the Cayugas did not want to include reciprocal language that recognized the county also has rights,” Getman said, noting there is no mechanism under the law which allows a business to be inspected on a limited or partial basis.

“The agreement with Cayuga County, in our minds, left open too many unanswered questions about how it could be enforced and how far the inspections could go,” he said. “It just simply created an unequal situation with every other business in the county.”

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#162742 --- 04/29/05 09:24 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
RE: Sworldt - your sitting there telling me that it is ok to overthrow a goverment, what has been in place for over 200 years.

-- Who said anything about overthrowing a government? You continually make statements accusing UCE of making them, when they were never made. What’s called a government in the Cayuga, Seneca-Cayuga, and Oneida tribes hasn’t been there for any 200 years. None of these tribes would qualify for tribal recognition today because they didn’t exist as a tribe continually for the past 200 years. Pine Tree Chief Frank Bonamie testified in court that the NY Cayuga only got together as a group in the late 70’s to file the lawsuit. The Seneca-Cayuga were formed under the 1934 IRA. The Oneida tribe had ceased to exist altogether as a tribe within the past hundred years.

RE: Sworldt - when will people like you decide we shouldn't have the right to read what we want or any other our freedoms, rights and decide it is time to change this as well.

It IS time to change this. Your complaints are against those expressing freedom of speech. Freedoms such as that are not guaranteed on reservations because the U.S. Constitution does not apply. If you’d read the CERA News link to their newspaper you’d be free to read the testimony from tribal representatives throughout the country that are fighting to have the U.S. Constitutional freedoms applied to reservations. I’m sure you’d like to stifle their freedom of speech too. Imagine that?

RE: Sworldt - so is this to also say the goverment can remove our rights as they were also given by the goverment.

Yes. By “our”, I presume you mean tribes, even though I don’t believe you’re a tribal member.

RE: Sworldt - Why are you so opposed to working with the tribes? instead of exterminating their rights.
The tribes gov. has been with us for more than 200 years your hate group hasn't. the tribes are not a threat to this country, but people with ideas such as your is. You are the threat we face.

The U.S. Constitution only recognizes three sovereigns: the people, the states, and the federal government. Tribal sovereignty only exists because Congress created it. This racist policy will eventually come to an end. And yes, ideas such as equality under the law and enforcing the U.S. Constitution throughout the land are unfortunately radical ideas even in this day and age. They’re terribly hateful ideas aren’t they?

RE: Sworldt - You are of aware we were discussing the U.S. Constitution and not N.Y.

Yes. http://www.usconstitution.net/ The U.S. Constitution

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#162743 --- 04/30/05 12:16 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Andy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/03
Posts: 268
Loc: I'm Bad, I'm Nationwide
"and by the way destroying an entire nations crops and live stock and homes before the worse winter in a long time is real humane.how many children froze and starved to death for the greed of a few non-indians."


Greed of a few non indians? Ever heard of the Cherry Valley massacres? Men, women and children scalped alive? Several different times the village was attacked. Settlements along the NY frontier were being harassed.The Cayuga had sided with the British and Gen. George Washington saw them as a threat from the northwest against his army. That is why he ordered the Sullivan and Clinton expedition, to do away once and for all the threat of indian raids and to stop the Cayuga and Seneca from aiding the British, who I believe held Fort Niagara at the time. Washington wanted the Indians decimated, with nothing left to sustain themselves so they would be forced to move from the territory. He wanted the campaign to be swift and forceful, and became annoyed with Sullivan over delays in getting enough supplies together to sustain such a large armada into what was at the time mostly wilderness . When finally underway they met up with a force of indians at Newtown ( near present day Elmira ).The natives were in the hills surrounding the river valley which the army was in. A fierce battle ensued with the colonials eventually winning. From this day on skirmishes were few. When they would come upon a town, it usually had been vacated, sometimes so recently that fires were still burning. Orchards were cut, crops and longhouses destroyed according to Washington's orders. So this is why the Cayuga and Seneca homeland was destroyed. Not for the "greed of a few non indians" but because it was wartime and unfortunately for them, they allied themselves with the side that lost.The Oneida I believe sided with the colnists, I don't know about Onondaga. And how, in the 1700's would they know a bad winter is coming? I suppose back then most any winter was pretty bad, some more than others of course. But It was wartime and being humane took a backseat to winning the War. Besides, the indians didn't worry too much about being humane when they scalped those people at Cherry Valley, did they? At least the indians were allowed to flee.


http://earlyamerica.com/review/1998/sullivan.html

This link is a very good, thorough history of the events and times of the sullivan campaign

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#162744 --- 05/01/05 07:25 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4617
Loc: New York State
I just finished reading of the Sullivan Campaign. It is a perspective of the revolution that I was aware of, but had never read this particular article. Thank you.

The reason for this drastic action on the part of General Washington is apparent. It pointed out how the Cayuga lost their lands at that point in time.

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#162745 --- 05/02/05 09:41 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Land-into-trust for gaming under more scrutiny
Thursday, April 28, 2005

The land-into-trust process came under fire at a Senate hearing on Wednesday as the Interior Department's Inspector General confirmed a probe into the issue and Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) promised a hearing to address the controversy.

Tribes are acquiring trust lands and using them for gaming under questionable circumstances, McCain said at the Senate Indian Affairs Committee hearing. "I think this is a huge problem," he said.

McCain specifically referred to a Congressional rider that allowed a California tribe to open an off-reservation casino in the Bay Area without obtaining state and federal approval. The designation for gaming "was put into an appropriations bill -- a bizarre situation to say the least," the chairman of the committee said.

Tribes have engaged in other dubious tactics, Inspector General Earl E. Devaney told the committee. He said he has already drafted an audit into a technique that has surfaced in Oklahoma, where tribes have asked the Bureau of Indian Affairs to acquire land for non-gaming purposes only to open a casino at a subsequent date.

The technique allows the tribes to skip a lengthy review process normally required for gaming acquisitions. "That's a problem," he said. "The BIA didn't know it happened."

Devaney characterized his audit as "limited" and didn't mention any tribes by name. But the Chickasaw Nation and at least two other tribes in eastern Oklahoma -- the Cherokee Nation and the Choctaw Nation -- have acquired land under these circumstances, according to previous stories published on Indianz.Com.

"Our recent evaluation of this process found 10 instances in which tribes have converted the use of lands taken into trust after 1988 from non-gaming purposes to gaming purposes without the approval of BIA or NIGC," Devaney said. "Surprisingly, we also learned that neither the BIA or NIGC even had a process for identifying these conversions." In a March 2003 story, Indianz.Com counted 11 Chickasaw Nation gaming facilities that were opened under this practice.

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Oklahoma), a new member of the committee, agreed that the situation presents a major problem in a state with 39 federally recognized tribes of all sizes. "Trust lands ... determine the winners and losers in Oklahoma," he said. "The fact is," he added, "that it's not necessarily a fair process."

Coburn was elected to the Senate in November amid opposition from politically active tribes like the Cherokee Nation. Without mentioning any by name, he accused these large tribes of hurting smaller tribes -- particularly those in western Oklahoma.

"Those that are in the game want to keep those that are not in the game from being in the game," the conservative Republican said. "I think that is something else that we need to look at."

Other federal witnesses at the hearing also signaled concern with the process. Phil Hogen, the chairman of the National Indian Gaming Commission, promised close scrutiny of proposals to acquire trust lands for gaming that may be located far away from an existing reservation.

"If some developer is the driving force and there really is not a legitimate claim [to the land], we ought to say no in those cases," he testified.

Tom Heffelfinger, the U.S. Attorney for Minnesota and the chair of the Native American Issues subcommittee at the Department of Justice, said the process opens tribes to potentially shady deals. "All the good locations are taken," he told the committee. "The pressure therefore -- because of the amount of money that can be had -- is to identify new lands in which gaming can be operated under some kind of arrangement."

"As those relationships become more and more bizarre, the need for Department of Justice to look into those is going to become greater and greater because of concerns of theft, fraud or abuse," he said.

Devaney suggested that a legislative fix is in order to give the BIA and the NIGC more authority to "monitor and enforce" tribal use of trust lands. "The approval is granted and then after that, nobody monitors to ensure that what was approved is actually happening," he testified.

McCain said these and other land-into-trust issues deserved their own hearing and pledged to hold one in the future. "We would appreciate any legislative recommendations," he told the federal witnesses.

Just last month, the committee held a hearing on the Bay Area casino controversy. McCain supports a bill that would require the Lytton Band of Pomo Indians, the tribe involved in the dispute, to undergo a lengthy review and approval process before opening a gaming establishment on the newly acquired trust land.

.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#162746 --- 05/02/05 12:13 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
http://sullivanclinton.com/


here is another link to a sullivan website that is very interesting.if you read it you'll understand the tribes didn't leave of their own free will, the cayugas were not one in cherry valley but in fact the colonist and mohawks were. and you will also find the true reason for that expedition.you can find it under road to empire. happy reading
_________________________

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#162747 --- 05/04/05 02:09 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY
Sorry for the delay in answering you, but i got busy with life.

1) overthrowing a goverment. the uce wants to eliminate the tribes soverign rights which is thier right to self goverment.you know this.and this is why you want it eliminated. ( overthrowing a goverment )you claim they haven't existed but the courts say they have.i also don't agree with all court rulings.such as sherrill i don't agree with that ruling,but unlike you i realize it is the court ruling and unless it changes it will have to be recognized and adhered to. your group likes to pick what ruling you will recognize and which ones you will ignore.

2) basic freedoms such as freedom of speech was not intended to the tribes,but to us,ours ( all mean the USA ) and you knew this, but you had to find a way to twist it.the freedoms i speak of are those of United States citizens.you know such as your nieghbore the same ones you like to spy on, dictate how and where they can spend their money,what business's they can or can not do business with.
the ones if they voice an opposing point of view here in the forums your wolf pack attacks.you know those people.

3)Again when i say ours it means U.S. gov.

and to end it you are still a racist hate group.imagine i can post my opinion.

but got to give you credit you twisted the he-- out of that post good job.


_________________________

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#162748 --- 05/04/05 02:42 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
sworldt Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Auburn,NY


"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed , three fifths of all other Persons"


"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"



"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land ;"



U.S. Constitution NARA website:

http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html
_________________________

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#162749 --- 05/05/05 05:08 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
Quote:



"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed , three fifths of all other Persons"


"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"



"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land ;"



U.S. Constitution NARA website:

http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html




The clause "Indians not taxed" appears in the section of the Constitution that describes how representatives are elected to Congress. The Constitution required each state, when it counts its citizens for purposes of congressional apportionment, to exclude "Indians not taxed." this was because at the time the Constitution was written indians were not citizens. It does not confer any immunity from taxation. In fact now Indians are citizens and are taxed by the federal government and therefore they are counted even for this purpose.

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#162750 --- 05/05/05 11:35 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Dan do you not have an opinion on this part. "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;" Or this part. "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land ;"
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#162751 --- 05/06/05 02:48 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps
dwarren Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
That is accurate. However, you have failed to recognize that where a treaty, or one of its provisions, conflict with a subsequent enactment of Congress the treaty or its conflicting provisions are deemed abrogated: ". . . The Constitution gives it (the treaty) no superiority over an act of Congress in this respect, which may be repealed or modified by an act of a later date." Head Money Cases, 112 U.S. 597. See also Geoffrey v. Riggs,133 U.S. 258-271.

The statutes enacted in 1948 (25 U.S.C. § 232) and 1955 (25 U.S.C. § 233) were not ambiguous in extending the State of New York's criminal and civil jurisdiction to include Indian land. The language of these statutes makes a clear distinction between jurisdiction over the land itself and jurisdiction over activities taking place on the land. Specifically, the statute includes the following language {emphasis added} "Provided further, That nothing herein contained shall be construed as subjecting the lands within any Indian reservation in the State of New York to taxation for State or local purposes, nor as subjecting any such lands, or any Federal or State annuity in favor of Indians or Indian tribes, to execution on any judgment rendered in the State courts, except in the enforcement of a judgment in a suit by one tribal member against another in the matter of the use or possession of land: And provided further, That nothing herein contained shall be construed as authorizing the alienation from any Indian nation, tribe, or band of Indians of any lands within any Indian reservation in the State of New York: Provided further, That nothing herein contained shall be construed as conferring jurisdiction on the courts of the State of New York or making applicable the laws of the State of New York in civil actions involving Indian lands or claims with respect thereto which relate to transactions or events transpiring prior to September 13, 1952" (25 U.S.C. § 233)

It is clear and unequivocal that the exceptions to this general grant of civil jurisdiction relate only to lands and not to transactions unrelated to the lands or transactions that simply occur on Indian land. In any case, 25 U.S.C. §§ 232, 233 were enacted subsequent to all treaties, so in any conflict between the treaties and these statutes, the statutes must control and
the treaties must be deemed abrogated.

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#528374 --- 02/18/07 12:50 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: dwarren]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
March 1
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#528637 --- 02/18/07 07:57 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Dan do you not have an opinion on this part. "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;" Or this part. "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land ;"


Okly: You've been asked this before and never answered. WHAT treaty did YOUR tribe ever make with the U.S.? The U.S. stopped making so called treaties with tribes in 1871 because they were subservient to the U.S. Your tribe wasn't created until 1936. All Indians were made citizens in 1924. The U.S. can't have treaties with it's own citizens.

Oh, excuse me. I forgot. Ya better have your federal overseer explain it to you.

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#528883 --- 02/19/07 10:11 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
CitizenStraub Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 536
Loc: Seneca County, NY
10 Days to go!
_________________________
"When you're looking at the business end of a grand jury, chances are, someone is going to prison."

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#529543 --- 02/20/07 02:11 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: CitizenStraub]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Is Okla in hiding or still looking for that Rez?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#529559 --- 02/20/07 02:20 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
I have never had to look for it. Can you say trust land? LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#529676 --- 02/20/07 04:47 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Is Okla in hiding or still looking for that Rez?


He's probably been dealing with Spitzer for one of the Catskill casinos or maybe even one in Auburn. Spitzer pulled off an agreement with the Mohawks for one, the legislature approved three. But NO compact has been approved by the legislature, he still has to clear Kempthorne's no-off-rez casino stand (450 miles from their rez)(in a different tribe's aboriginal territory), and there is already a lawsuit filed to push for an EIS because the BIA said they didn't need one because there would be no impact.

Well, considering they agreed to give the county $20 million a year to mitigate the impact at least the tribe admitted there would be one.

Plus they agreed to collect and remit sales taxes in the Catskills and told Spitzer to collect it from the wholesalers elsewhere, likely because they couldn't make their own people comply. Yeah, I know, the Seneca-Cayuga agreed to do that too.

I have nothing against Okla, we just disagree. He's just a member of one tribe. There are eleven ongoing tribal lawsuits in this state now aside from five different tribes filing for trust status. It's going to be an interesting year.

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#530222 --- 02/21/07 10:28 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
THE GOV'S GAMBLING GOOF
February 21, 2007 -- Gov. Spitzer is getting into bed with the St. Regis Mohawks, giving the green light to a partnership between the upstate Indian tribe and a private firm to build a $600 million casino at the former Monticello Raceway in the economically troubled Catskills.

Bad move.

We're no fans of legalized gambling; it's socially corrosive on several levels.

But that horse is out of the barn. Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and upstate New York already have casinos galore, and it's clear that the N.Y.C. area will, too - even if it means subverting the state Constitution's ban on casinos via compacts with Indian tribes.

However, doing a deal with this particular tribe - with its extended history of often-violent criminality - is a travesty.

Over the past eight years, the feds have cited the St. Regis Mohawks in connection with a $687 million smuggling operation involving illegal liquor, cigarettes and guns.

They've also done a brisk business smuggling people - transporting more than 3,600 illegal aliens from China into America through the St. Regis reservation, which transverses the U.S.-Canadian border along the St. Lawrence River.

They've also occasionally engaged in shoot-outs with the New York State Police, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Canadian army.

Not exactly good neighbors, we'd say.

Yet the last two governors have worked overtime to expand the Mohawks' control over casino gambling in New York.

Yes, the Catskills need economic help.

And there's no denying the potential revenue lure of this casino, which would be closer to the metropolitan area than either Atlantic City or Foxwoods.

But it would be fully 400 miles from the St. Regis reservation; in no credible sense is it part of tribal lands - logically, a prerequisite for the establishment of an Indian-owned casino.

And while the 1988 federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act allows for some latitude in this regard, U.S. Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne - who must sign off on any deal - has said lawmakers didn't intend to OK casinos so far from tribal land.

All of which suggests that the court battles are far from over. Competing casino interests, opponents of legalized gambling and local residents fearful of the casino's impact on traffic and other conditions all have vowed a fight.

We hope they wage it with vigor.

Happily, there's no sign that Kempthorne will rush to any decision in the matter. In fact, the matter will likely stay up in the air for years.

Which means there's time enough for the state to do this right.

If casino gambling is as inevitable as it appears, then it's time to amend the state Constitution to open gambling to everyone - not just dubious partners like the St. Regis Mohawks.

This would be an extended process: Two successively elected Legislatures would have to agree, and then there would be a statewide referendum.

There would be no guarantees, to be sure.

But it's the way to go.

Meanwhile, Spitzer needs to read the relevant State Police files on the St. Regis Mohawk tribe.

When he does, he'll come to his senses quickly enough - and ice this project.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#530338 --- 02/21/07 01:50 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
See I told you Spitzer is a smart man. Who will be next in line for a casino? Can you say trust land? LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#533572 --- 02/28/07 07:27 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
Can you say trust land? LOL


Is that not what you said about the land claim?


LOL
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#533657 --- 02/28/07 11:20 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
We were beat on the land claim before it was even filed. But it's not going to be so easy to beat this. I know you can say it, trust land. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#535061 --- 03/02/07 02:50 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Can you say No Rez in NY?
Your divided tribe left NY.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#536259 --- 03/04/07 10:30 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
CitizenStraub Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 536
Loc: Seneca County, NY
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
We were beat on the land claim before it was even filed. But it's not going to be so easy to beat this. I know you can say it, trust land. LOL


Today Cayuga County and the Catskills, tomorrow the whole United States!
_________________________
"When you're looking at the business end of a grand jury, chances are, someone is going to prison."

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#536617 --- 03/05/07 02:37 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: CitizenStraub]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
Originally Posted By: CitizenStraub
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
We were beat on the land claim before it was even filed. But it's not going to be so easy to beat this. I know you can say it, trust land. LOL


Today Cayuga County and the Catskills, tomorrow the whole United States!
LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#537012 --- 03/06/07 06:49 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
See I told you Spitzer is a smart man. Who will be next in line for a casino? Can you say trust land? LOL


While the land claim was in the coruts, all Okla would say is that the land claim is about the land.

Why is the only focus for his tribe is a casino?

it must not be about the land just a casino..........
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#537229 --- 03/06/07 01:35 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Okla.ndn Offline
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
It's about the land. With out land theres no casino. LOL can you say trust land?
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I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#537604 --- 03/06/07 08:58 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
CitizenStraub Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 536
Loc: Seneca County, NY
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
It's about the land. With out land theres no casino. LOL can you say trust land?


Without the casinos, there is no money for lawyers and no money to lobby for more land.
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#539610 --- 03/10/07 07:07 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
It's about the land. With out land theres no casino. LOL can you say trust land?


Can you say dead land claim?
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#539708 --- 03/10/07 12:44 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Okla.ndn Offline
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
We proved what was needed, so let it go. Can you say trust land? LOL
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I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#540114 --- 03/11/07 03:22 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
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Posts: 32556
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Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
We proved what was needed, so let it go. Can you say trust land? LOL


You proved that you had no case.
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#540311 --- 03/11/07 09:11 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
We proved what was needed, so let it go. Can you say trust land? LOL


You proved that you had no case.




YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT LOUDER, or rather tell Okla to have his or her federal overseer explain it.
Quote:
Quote:
You proved that you had no case.
Quote:

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#541092 --- 03/13/07 01:53 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Okla.ndn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 3074
Loc: Osage Indian Nation in Oklahom...
We proved that the land was taking without an approved treaty. That's why it will be put into trust. I know you can say it Dick, trust land. LOL
_________________________
I am a General Council member of the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe I speak for my self not my Tribe.

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#542062 --- 03/15/07 09:54 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Okla.ndn]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Okla.ndn
That's why it will be put into trust. I know you can say it Dick, trust land. LOL


If you plan on putting it into trust then you are not telling the truth to Auburn when you say that you will pay all taxes if they "let" you have a casino.

Why do you not tell Auburn that you will pay taxes only until the land is put into trust and then after the land is in trust then Auburn can "take a hike" and you will not pay taxes?
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#754975 --- 02/18/08 12:51 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: grinch]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: grinch
... If you are successful in checking the pumps that is really not the question. The legal principles remains the same, who is the controlling authority here, the Cayuga or Seneca Co? The law indicates you are. Do not give into their demands.


Start collecting the sales taxes...
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#755014 --- 02/18/08 02:21 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
reilley Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 11744
Loc: between here and there
gas at lakeside in SF is $3.03 ......
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#755423 --- 02/19/08 07:49 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: reilley]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reilley
gas at lakeside in SF is $3.03 ......


Wonder how long before they would have to close if they paid their share of the sales taxes?
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#755425 --- 02/19/08 07:54 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: reilley]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Should the local or county government be able to close down this illegal business?
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#755570 --- 02/19/08 12:30 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Ezra Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 603
Loc: between the lines
What a bunch of hypocritical savages.

Don't their "people" say that no one owns the land?







Edited by FL1 Mod 2 (02/19/08 12:54 PM)

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#760850 --- 02/27/08 07:46 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Ezra]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
They never "owned" the land. Nomads just wander.
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#774956 --- 03/21/08 07:40 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Ezra]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
We all must have some indian blood in us if "they" existed on the earth first as they claim.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#776084 --- 03/24/08 01:53 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: bluezone
They never "owned" the land. Nomads just wander.


It couldn't even have any value until we showed them how to survey it into saleable parcels.

Until we showed them that the world was round, they thought they were living on the back of a frickin' turtle.
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#776827 --- 03/25/08 10:00 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: VM Smith]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: VM Smith


Until we showed them that the world was round, they thought they were living on the back of a frickin' turtle.


Should the land claim be called the "turtle back" claim?

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#787852 --- 04/12/08 12:54 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: VM Smith]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
If one buys gas from the tribe and drives off without paying for it then who would arrest them?

Tribal police? (none exist)

Once the offender leaves the station then they are back on NY soil.

extradition?
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#787877 --- 04/12/08 02:49 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: bluezone
If one buys gas from the tribe and drives off without paying for it then who would arrest them?

Tribal police? (none exist)

Once the offender leaves the station then they are back on NY soil.

extradition?

They are on NY soil NOW. The sheriff would arrest a thief.

It's our own governor that refuses to enforce the law and our own state assemblymen that refuse to do their job and impeach the governor for failing to do his job.

It's our OWN government that we are fighting.

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#788345 --- 04/13/08 03:17 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
They are on NY soil NOW. The sheriff would arrest a thief.


Then why can't the local government arrest the tribes for their illegal activities?
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#789613 --- 04/15/08 06:31 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Uncollected Tax Dollars

January 15, 2008
We thought you would be interested in the following letter that has been sent to the members of the Legislature by Mr. Arthur H. Katz, Executive Director of the NYS Wholesale Marketers and Distributors.

January 10, 2008

Dear Legislative Member:

SHAME

Why do we continue to permit annual sales of 400 million packs of untaxed cigarettes to Indian sellers when it is known that illicit reselling is funding terrorism?

In America, our greatest triumph is adherence to the rule of law. Where laws end, terrorism begins. In 1994, the United States Supreme Court ruled (in Attea v. New York State) that New York was within its right to tax all cigarette sales to non-tribal members. Yet in the twelve years since that ruling the Pataki administration did not attempt to apply the law to a single Native American sale. Therefore, lacking accountability, these untaxed sales have reached an astounding 40 million cartons annually with lost revenue to New York State of $20 million per week or one billion dollars per year.



*It should be noted, since our first letter dated August 6, 2007, New York State has lost an additional $440 million in revenue, why?



Shame:Major illegal profits from these sales are funding terrorism while the New York State treasury is robbed!

The connection between Native American untaxed cigarette distribution and the funding of terrorism is well established and documented by New York and Federal agencies, public officials and numerous criminal court cases. Among some recent examples:

New York City 11/03/2007, Rep. Anthony Weiner and state senator Jeff Klein, in calling for a congressional investigation and putting additional teeth in existing federal laws , issued a press release that documented several recent government cases which uncovered the funding of Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. They also quoted public officials who have stated that illegal cigarette profits have become one of the leading sources of domestic terrorist funding. ATF agent Patrick Awe, who testified before the US Senate, stated "... the link to terrorism has been established".



v Cattaraugus Indian Reservation 09/20/2006, Karim H. Nassar from Canada pleads guilty to smuggling $500,000 of cigarettes off the reservation for general market consumption and sending profits to Hezbollah guerillas.



v Dearborn, 05/29/05, nineteen men are federally indicted for a smuggling operation that evaded "tens of millions in state cigarette taxes" by purchasing truck loads of untaxed product from a Western New York State Indian Reservation and reselling in New York and Michigan. The profits were funneled to Hezbollah.



v The New York State Tax Enforcement Group arrested a couple in Brooklyn who were part of a group of 200 terrorists smuggling and reselling into New York City.



v Police commissioner, Ray Kelly in a speech before the United Nations, states that the smuggling of cigarettes is the leading means of funding forterrorist organizations.



v New York Post 10/16/07 State Senator Martin Golden who sits on the Homeland Security Committee, states that "ATF has opened hundreds of illicit cigarette trafficking cases; ... [having] links to extremist groups such as al Qaeda ... He adds that ATF senior intelligence analyst William Billingslea wrote in the Police Chief Magazine that, "Because of the immense profit, illicit cigarette trafficking now rivals drugs as the method of choice to fill the bank accounts of terrorist groups." Golden goes on to say, "The solution is simple. Both federal and state laws are already in place, and the courts have reaffirmed their constitutionality. What we need now is a governor with the guts to enforce them. The result of not enforcing the law has transcended the issue of Native American sovereignty into an issue of national security."

Shame: Why has leadership not acted to enforce the law and protect public safety?

v Newsday 11/06/2007, "Trial of smoke-shop millionaire set to begin". In a criminal case heard before the Eastern District Court, RodneyMorrison a Costa Rican, who is an "Indian" through marriage, has offered to put up $56 million cash for bail. This criminal case involves massive amounts of cigarettes that were sold tax free to and from an Indian reservation.It certainly should not surprise anyone that the purchase of tens of thousands of cartons of cigarettes from just one of these Indian stores is not for personal consumption. The Distributor who supplies the "store" should know that those cartons cannot be consumed legally without taxation. The manufacturers who supply the distributors receive a mandatory report each week that states how many cartons go towhom, and yet continue to allocate and sell this product. These outlets are the major source of counterfeit and untaxed cigarettes sold in high taxed localities (NY) to complicit stores and street merchants.

Shame: Manufacturers who are allocating and their distributors who are selling should have knowledge of the laws requirements.

On April 12, 2005 legislation was passed that required the collection of taxes on all Indian sales of cigarettes, motor fuel and other products to non-Indian New Yorkers starting 3/1/06 (without exception) and was signed into law the next day. It was with both courage and conviction that Sheldon Silver and Joseph Bruno led the legislature to overturn Pataki's ill-advised veto, demonstrating their understanding of the urgency for stopping this outflow. The methodology of tax stamping of all cigarettes and the issuance of "exemption coupons" to tribal members was conceived 12 years ago and favorably ruled upon by the US Supreme Court.





Shame: NYS State government still continues to invent ingeniousexcuses for non-enforcement.



During his final year in office, Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, in various correspondences, made it crystal clear that current law prohibited the shipping of untaxed cigarettes within New York. And further, that manufacturers, truckers, distributors and Indian traders who aided and abetted or criminally facilitated these shipments would be guilty of crimes against the State. Recently, Attorney General Cuomo, under an order from the Federal Eastern District Court, testified that the state's policy of forbearance (i.e. non-enforcement) was not a valid defense for the causing to be sold or the causing to be shipped of untaxed cigarettes for resale to non-tribal members. In another criminal case heard before the Eastern District Court; Judge Hurley ruled that there was knowledge of the illegal use and therefore criminal aiding and abetting.



Shame: As yet, there is no State enforcement and criminals and terrorists continue to grow rich.



The Math:

From 1996 - 2006 there was a recorded twenty percent reduction in the national

cigarettes sales (excluding New York State).

In 1996 New York State Taxes were paid on 127 Million Cartons Sold.

In 2006 New York True Consumption should have fallen to 102 Million Cartons

Actual 2006 New York State Legal cartons sold amounted to only 62 million!

That equals a loss of 40 million cartons sold in 2006!!





Shame:

A $Billion give away of our taxes!



It is patently absurd to argue that Native American sovereignty can only be preserved by allowing them unregulated access to FORTY MILLION cartons of untaxed cigarettes annually. This would amount to a staggering EIGHT BILLION cigarettes smoked per year by 2,500 adult Native American smokers in New York.



Shame: Let us not fall asleep at the switch again! Solution: Tax Stamp all cigarettes!

Summary of some Applicable Laws that may be violated are:

The Jenkins Act; The Contraband Cigarette Trafficking Act 18 U.S.C.Sec.2342; New York Public Health Law1399II; NYS Tax Law, Article 20, Sec. 471E; Criminal Facilitation, Article 115 NYS Penal Law; provisions under The National Security Act.

Whyhave we suffered 12 years of non compliance and the feeding of terrorists? Why have the cigarette manufactures continued to allocate millions of cartons of cigarettes to Indian sellers knowing exactly what is being shipped to each Indian store? Why has Albany not exercised its duty to protect its citizens by simply upholding the law? Why have these complicit venders been permitted to become the leading source of untaxed cigarettes sold in the 50 states? It certainly cannot be up to Native Americans, manufactures, or recalcitrant Public Officials to dictate the terms of our safety. Our Supreme Court has already spoken. Now our elected officials must act by recognizing that where law dies, terrorism lives.

Shame: The failure of Government and manufacturers to act in these past twelve years is a classic case of politics and greed vs. country!

Sincerely,

Arthur H. Katz

Executive Director
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#880403 --- 09/11/08 07:07 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
charge the tribe a "user fee" to transport their gas over NY land.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#965321 --- 01/23/09 11:01 AM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Is the gas flowing?


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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#976021 --- 02/08/09 03:58 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Festus.]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Festus.
Tribe's gas pumps tested
After a few weeks of talks following a U.S. Supreme Court decision that said Indian-owned land is not automatically sovereign, the county's weights and measures inspector spent three and half hours at the station Friday testing equipment.




Time to test the pumps?


.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#978367 --- 02/12/09 04:01 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Cayugas to lose it all tomorrow. ;\)
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#996457 --- 03/18/09 07:22 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
They did it again.
Saw in one of the local newspapers that the Cayugas are advertising cheap gas/smokes.

False advertising?


;\)
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#997028 --- 03/19/09 08:28 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: bluezone]
monkeydoodle Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Auburn ny usa 13o21
Hey an enterprise is an enterprise remember what happened last Depression...Prohibition
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#1001327 --- 03/30/09 12:01 PM Re: Cayuga County Tests Indian Gas Pumps [Re: monkeydoodle]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
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