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#1543537 --- 03/09/20 06:56 PM Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus

How are they at City assessment appeals?


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#1543538 --- 03/09/20 07:01 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus


The directions for contesting an assessment are part of the re-val letter received.



Was the information in the letter accurate?

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#1543567 --- 03/10/20 04:33 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Yes, but I doubt if many will feel they have the expertise or time to pursue the collection of data required. Information on recent sales is not in any central location that I have found, and it's important that the sales examples be a close match to your property in size, number of bedrooms, etc. You may want to add the assessed value of the sales examples to show that the increase over assessment of their selling price does not match the increase you're being given. Be prepared for the response "But that was a year ago, and sales are up from then".

You can always sue in small claims court.

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#1543848 --- 03/14/20 06:19 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
scwoodchuck Offline
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LOTS OF LUCK. The state has required software that must be used and the local assessors have very little control.
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#1543901 --- 03/14/20 03:16 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Posts: 339
Fortunately the assessor can be over-ruled by the appeals board, all of whom live here, unlike the assessor, who lives in Canandaigua.

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#1545508 --- 04/02/20 11:34 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Information on recent sales is not in any central location that I have found, and it's important that the sales examples be a close match to your property in size, number of bedrooms, etc.


There is ample information on the cities website that directs you to the NYS website that has further information.

There are real estate websites that go back three years with previous sales data that allows one to filter for the square footage, number of bedrooms, # of bathrooms, lot size, location...

The city/county clerk and assessors office has all sales data

A homeowner could call a local real estate agent to collect comparable sales data. A small fee may apply.

Call an appraiser to get the value of the home. A few hundred dollars for most homes. The appraiser will get the comparables for the homeowner.

The assessor can only base the value of the home by the exterior unless improvements have been made to the interior by a permit.

If the exterior is in better condition compared to the interior than most likely the assessment may be too high.

There may be a neighboring property that brings down the value of the home that the assessor may not have taken into account.

If the assessment has increased by a significant amount it is in the best interest of the homeowner to contest the assessment



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#1545563 --- 04/02/20 07:34 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Please supply the urls for these sources.

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#1545646 --- 04/03/20 02:10 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
There is about 30.

Do you have a specific few?
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#1545690 --- 04/04/20 05:00 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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The real estate websites that allow filters on sales data would be the most useful, I think. A lot of the county data disappears into LLCs or trusts which makes it difficult to track.

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#1546004 --- 04/11/20 07:22 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Hello? Blue? Five days later and no response? Do you have the listings or not?

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#1546933 --- 04/25/20 05:02 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Finger Lakes Times has published online- 40 pages - the proposed assessments for every property in the city. It's organized in a semi-geographical order which makes it hard to search, but with some time you can construct a picture of where your property sits relative to others.

So, part of an answer with no help from Bluezone 3 weeks after calling his bluff.

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#1547629 --- 05/06/20 09:20 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Hello? Blue?


Enter into your search engine - 'recently sold homes in geneva ny'

Or 'recently sold homes in Ontario county ny'

There should be plenty of filters to customize the search

That should keep you busy for a short time wink
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#1547638 --- 05/06/20 11:11 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
genevaparent Offline
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Registered: 05/14/09
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Loc: Geneva NY
Assessments are up 13%. Are you surprised? Look at the cost of rentals in Geneva. Look at the prices properties are selling for. This is no surprise. Geneva is on the rise.

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#1547648 --- 05/07/20 04:44 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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If by "on the rise" you mean the highest tax rates for the lowest school test scores, I agree.

Blue: "There are real estate websites that go back three years with previous sales data that allows one to filter for the square footage, number of bedrooms, # of bathrooms, lot size, location..."

So, again, when asked to actually support the assertion, above, nothing forthcoming, as usual.

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#1547655 --- 05/07/20 01:41 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus


Blue: "There are real estate websites that go back three years with previous sales data that allows one to filter for the square footage, number of bedrooms, # of bathrooms, lot size, location..."

So, again, when asked to actually support the assertion, above, nothing forthcoming, as usual.




Did you look at the websites mentioned?
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#1547669 --- 05/07/20 03:37 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Let's be clear that you didn't actually mention any websites, which would mean supplying a url. Anyone could say "use a search engine" but you previously mentioned the hope of specific web sites and never supplied them.

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#1547684 --- 05/07/20 10:26 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
genevaparent Offline
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Loc: Geneva NY
No, I actually meant Geneva is a great place to live. I live here. Plenty to do, lots of places to eat, and affordable. Yes, even with our high taxes it is still affordable and is a great place. Where do you live? Is it better than Geneva??

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#1547701 --- 05/08/20 10:07 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Let's be clear that you didn't actually mention any websites,


Use your search engine : 'recently sold homes in geneva ny'

Or

'Recently sold homes in Ontario county ny'

Is that to hard for you?
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#1547731 --- 05/08/20 03:56 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Posts: 339
Just documenting another failure at follow-through.

And you better narrow it to "city of Geneva" since working at the county level will bring in Victor and you won't like those numbers.

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#1547735 --- 05/08/20 04:13 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus

And you better narrow it to "city of Geneva"


Did you try a search for 'city of Geneva NY?

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#1547797 --- 05/09/20 07:29 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Posts: 339
I completed my search before your useless commentary. I was hoping you could offer specifics, as promised, for others. No such luck, again.

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#1547812 --- 05/10/20 04:03 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I completed my search


Splendid

How many comparables did you get?
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#1547871 --- 05/11/20 10:13 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Plenty

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#1547883 --- 05/11/20 11:58 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Plenty


Did the assessor accept all of them?
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#1547968 --- 05/12/20 04:55 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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The current assessor has very little sympathy for any argument, however cogent. I'm waiting for grievance day, and the appeals board: a group of fellow city residents who understand the difference between Geneva and Canandaigua (where the assessor lives).

Regarding realtor data: good place to start, but verify the values at the Ontario County Online Resources web site's property app, particularly the square feet, lot size and number of beds & baths. Realtors tend to be... optimistic in some of their data.

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#1548127 --- 05/14/20 07:08 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
The current assessor has very little sympathy for any argument, however cogent.


Was a detailed written statement provided by the assessor why your comparables were not acceptable?


Did the assessor show you the comparables that were used to value your property?
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#1548128 --- 05/14/20 07:13 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Realtors tend to be... optimistic in some of their data.


The seller wants to get a higher sales price and the realtor wants a higher commission.

The market dictates the sales price under most circumstances.

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#1548210 --- 05/14/20 07:53 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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I don't think further discussion of my specifics are helpful. I know how to prepare my case.

Regarding realtors, they will tell any story to get you into the property and hope that emotion overrides your rational (market) thinking, just like anyone in sales.

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#1548223 --- 05/15/20 06:13 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I don't think further discussion of my specifics are helpful.


Considering you have to appeal seems you lacked proper comparables

Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I know how to prepare my case.



Having an appraisal has more weight

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#1548224 --- 05/15/20 06:17 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Regarding realtors, they will tell any story to get you into the property


They could be held legally/financially resonsible if they state false information

Best to get it in writing if they make a claim that sounds illogical

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#1548225 --- 05/15/20 06:23 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
And you better narrow it to "city of Geneva" since working at the county level will bring in Victor and you won't like those numbers.


Using numbers from Victor should bolster your case if used in the proper manner
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#1548251 --- 05/15/20 09:09 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Exactly how would you use Victor numbers? The two municipalities are so strikingly different that there's no comparison. Maybe you can try to create a comparison of actual house prices, but how do you account for the differences in commuting distances, school systems, even proximity to landfills? It's hard to even compare city vs. town of Geneva.

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#1548312 --- 05/16/20 10:48 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It's hard to even compare city vs. town of Geneva.


If you offered a comparable from the town of geneva was it reject?

What reason did the assessor give for the reject?

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#1548335 --- 05/16/20 03:11 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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I have not, and would not, offer a town property as a comparable. It's much better to use a city property for the reason that the assessor has just posted his own opinion of the selling price, the assessment, and he can hardly argue against his own work. It takes out the variables that need to be quantified, but can't: the obvious tax issue, but also the increased distances to services, a fire department with a core of paid professionals, police vs. sheriff, etc. [This is not a slam on volunteer firemen, or the sheriff, it's just some of the differences between City and Town.]

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#1548461 --- 05/18/20 07:19 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It's much better to use a city property for the reason that the assessor has just posted his own opinion of the selling price


If he offered comparables question every aspect of them

Were the comparables all purchased by investors?

Have any of the comparables had any major renovations recently while yours has not?

Are there any negative aspects of neighboring properties that would lower your value that the assessor would not know about?

Any aspects that the assessor uses to raise your assessment you must point out the negatives


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#1548511 --- 05/18/20 04:29 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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You belabor the obvious, while perpetrating misleading guidance:

It doesn't matter if a property was purchased by investors (and how would you verify that?).

There is no way to track renovations in other properties without camping out in the Code office, currently under lockdown.

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#1548517 --- 05/18/20 04:39 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It doesn't matter if a property was purchased by investors (and how would you verify that?).


Usually an investor puts ownership into an LLC Corp and they do not get the star rebate
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#1548519 --- 05/18/20 04:41 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
There is no way to track renovations in other properties without camping out in the Code office, currently under lockdown.


Email or call the code office

They are most accomoodating when one asks for information
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#1548524 --- 05/18/20 05:03 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It doesn't matter if a property was purchased by investors


Are you suggesting an investor would not pay more for a home just to put 5 or more college students in it and charge each student $1000 or more per month?

One students monthly rent would pay for a $200,000 (30 year) mortgage payment with the current low mortgage interest rates

The remaining students monthly rent ($4,000) would largely be profit for the investor
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#1548549 --- 05/19/20 04:42 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Posts: 339
I'm saying that, as an assessment issue, who bought a property, and for what reason, is immaterial.

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#1548566 --- 05/19/20 09:34 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Investors overpaying for a home to convert it to a college rental does not inflate the values of other homes?

Did the assessor offer any reasons why your assessment went up?
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#1548580 --- 05/19/20 10:31 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
It does increase the value of homes, but he would need more than one, and a close match to your home, for it to be meaningful.

I started this thread to be helpful to others who weren't sure how to go about an appeal. I tried to get help from you, since you alluded to knowledge of a specific website for real estate sales information. You actually were just blowing hot air again, so I will turn my attention to other matters.

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#1548591 --- 05/19/20 01:24 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It does increase the value of homes, but he would need more than one


There are plenty rentals in the city
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#1549971 --- 06/06/20 11:40 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339

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#1552702 --- 07/21/20 07:44 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus


Note that all appeals will be heard via Zoom.


By how much did you get the appeals to RAISE your assessment?
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#1552707 --- 07/21/20 07:56 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It does increase the value of homes, but he would need more than one, and a close match to your home, for it to be meaningful.

I started this thread to be helpful to others who weren't sure how to go about an appeal. I tried to get help from you, since you alluded to knowledge of a specific website for real estate sales information. You actually were just blowing hot air again, so I will turn my attention to other matters.


Total fabrication, take the asking price or selling price of 2 identical new 2 story 2000 square foot home in Clyde New York versus the Town of Pittford NY, In theory you can sell that home in Pittford and buy an identical home in a less desirable rural setting but add a considerable amount to your saving account not to mention , paying cash for the newly purchase venue. Apples for oranges is not the case here.
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#1552900 --- 07/23/20 06:33 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus


Note that all appeals will be heard via Zoom.


By how much did you get the appeals to RAISE your assessment?
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#1552918 --- 07/23/20 07:28 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
Haven't heard yet. There's always small claims court.

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#1553043 --- 07/25/20 09:25 AM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
I recommend a few appraisals in the other thread must be you did not go that route if you need a small claims case



Quote:
A homeowner could get an appraisal(s) from a real estate agent/broker as a means to contest their assessment.

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#1553173 --- 07/26/20 04:49 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Posts: 339
There are not many realtors licensed to do appraisals, the only acceptable version in a assessment challenge. And licensed appraisals are not cheap, being a % of the appraised value. On the other hand I can file a small claims action for $25.

Surprised more people don't use small claims.

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#1553220 --- 07/27/20 01:28 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
There are not many realtors licensed to do appraisals


It is just a matter of getting comparables.

Most agents can get comparables as they use that information when they put a home up for sale to determine the asking price

Brokers have the most experience/education


The larger firms have appraisers they call when needed

Your home owners insurance company should have contact to an appraiser to evaluate the value of one's home for insurance purposes

A bank that offers home mortgages should have contact to one to determine if a home is of equal or greater value for a mortgage
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#1553221 --- 07/27/20 01:40 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
And licensed appraisals are not cheap, being a % of the appraised value.


If the cost of the appraisal was recovered in less than 3 years in lower taxes it would most likely be a logical decision
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#1553225 --- 07/27/20 01:48 PM Re: Assessments up 13% in City of Geneva [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus

Surprised more people don't use small claims.


Getting proper comparables should not require going to small claims

The assessor should be convinced in the first meeting with him/her
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