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#1532234 --- 07/17/19 01:50 PM Bens health care thread
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
I pointed out one example of how it would be cheaper. Have you seen the salaries CEO's make? Sanders was just on TV saying next week he is going to Canada and buy insulin at 1/10 the price we pay here. Under their government run system of course. He is not my first choice for president but he brings out good points here.



Here you go, an appropriate thread. I know it is hard to do so you are welcome.

Did you know that drugs are not covered under the Canadian system? Except in the hospital. So your argument really does not hold water. How does adding government bureaucrats to the healthcare equation make it more efficient?

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#1532239 --- 07/17/19 02:25 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
How does adding government bureaucrats to the healthcare equation make it more efficient?
By eliminating this:

How much does the CEO of Unitedhealth make?

Business Week reports his annual salary as $14,518,164. For 2016, his compensation was estimated at $31.3 million, representing a 55.8 percent increase compared to 2015, which was estimated at $14,500,000 by FierceHealthcare. Forbes magazine ranked him at 269th in its 2009 Special Report on CEO Compensation.

How much does the CEO of Aetna make?

Aetna: 2017 Compensation For CEO Bertolini Neared $59 Million. Mark Bertolini, chief executive officer of Aetna Inc., received compensation in 2017 of nearly $59 million, much of it in stocks and options he exercised during the year, the health insurer said Friday in a regulatory filing.Apr 7, 2018

How much does the CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield make?

Total compensation for Daniel Loepp, CEO of Blue Cross since 2006, hit $19.2 million in 2018. That was up from his $13.4 million payday in 2017 and $9 million in 2015. Loepp is now among the five highest-paid CEOs of any Blue Cross Blue Shield insurer in the nation.Mar 1, 2019

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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532241 --- 07/17/19 02:37 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Did you know that drugs are not covered under the Canadian system? Except in the hospital.
No. I did not know that. But it sounds like the drugs are so cheap they may not be more than our co-pays down here.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532248 --- 07/17/19 03:01 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
How does adding government bureaucrats to the healthcare equation make it more efficient?
By eliminating this:

How much does the CEO of Unitedhealth make?

Business Week reports his annual salary as $14,518,164. For 2016, his compensation was estimated at $31.3 million, representing a 55.8 percent increase compared to 2015, which was estimated at $14,500,000 by FierceHealthcare. Forbes magazine ranked him at 269th in its 2009 Special Report on CEO Compensation.

How much does the CEO of Aetna make?

Aetna: 2017 Compensation For CEO Bertolini Neared $59 Million. Mark Bertolini, chief executive officer of Aetna Inc., received compensation in 2017 of nearly $59 million, much of it in stocks and options he exercised during the year, the health insurer said Friday in a regulatory filing.Apr 7, 2018

How much does the CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield make?

Total compensation for Daniel Loepp, CEO of Blue Cross since 2006, hit $19.2 million in 2018. That was up from his $13.4 million payday in 2017 and $9 million in 2015. Loepp is now among the five highest-paid CEOs of any Blue Cross Blue Shield insurer in the nation.Mar 1, 2019




So let's eliminate 125 million in salaries. The US spends 3.65 trillion on health. Not seeing how this would lower the cost of healthcare even a little. Even if the bureaucrats work for free.

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#1532249 --- 07/17/19 03:21 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The US spends 3.65 trillion on health.
So why is insulin 10 times as high here as in Canada? I have heard it often said what the US spends on health care per person is twice what any other modern country pays. There is a huge amount of things that need to be investigated here.
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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532252 --- 07/17/19 03:26 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Did you know that drugs are not covered under the Canadian system? Except in the hospital.
No. I did not know that. But it sounds like the drugs are so cheap they may not be more than our co-pays down here.


So if it is not the government that reduces the price of drugs in Canada, what is it. Unlike the 20 +/- Dem candidates that believe the only solution is a government take over, and why not they love to have power over what everyone does, I am willing to have a conversation.

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#1532253 --- 07/17/19 03:28 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The US spends 3.65 trillion on health.
So why is insulin 10 times as high here as in Canada? I have heard it often said what the US spends on health care per person is twice what any other modern country pays. There is a huge amount of things that need to be investigated here.


Don't know, but clearly, it has nothing to do with people throwing money at the government. Maybe Bernie can tell you. Ha Ha

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#1532254 --- 07/17/19 03:29 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The US spends 3.65 trillion on health.
So why is insulin 10 times as high here as in Canada? I have heard it often said what the US spends on health care per person is twice what any other modern country pays. There is a huge amount of things that need to be investigated here.


Clearly, it is not the salaries of CEOs.

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#1532256 --- 07/17/19 03:34 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The US spends 3.65 trillion on health.
So why is insulin 10 times as high here as in Canada? I have heard it often said what the US spends on health care per person is twice what any other modern country pays. There is a huge amount of things that need to be investigated here.

Clearly, it is not the salaries of CEOs.
Right lets leave the minimum wage of $7.25 but give government bureaucrats a salary of 10 million dollars.

The current Republican Party consists of white guys making $700 an hour convincing guys who make $25 an hour that guys making $7 an hour are the problem.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532257 --- 07/17/19 03:35 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY

America is significantly outperforming Canada in surgery wait times even as it’s likely that tens of thousands of Canadians come here to get surgery.
Wednesday, July 17, 2019

Kevin Pham

Canadian Medicare, our northern neighbor’s universal health care system, generally receives rave reviews from proponents of nationalized or socialized health care, but the Fraser Institute found that more than 63,000 Canadians left their country to have surgery in 2016.

As Americans contemplate overturning our health system in favor of one similar to Canada’s, we must ask why so many leave.

The Canadian system consistently ranks low or lowest across numerous metrics in the Commonwealth Fund’s extensive survey on health care. With regards to specialists and surgeries, the United States ranked best or nearly best.

Timely Surgeries
The Fraser Institute study did not examine where Canadians traveled for surgery, but given proximity and our much better metrics, most probably came here.

Surgeries are scheduled after patients are seen by the surgeon, and most people see surgeons only after a referral by either their primary care physician in America, or their general practitioner in Canada. In the United States, 70 percent of patients are able to be seen by specialists less than four weeks after a referral. In Canada, less than 40 percent were seen inside of four weeks.

America is significantly outperforming Canada in surgery wait times even as it’s likely that tens of thousands of Canadians come here to get surgery.

After being advised that they need a procedure done, only about 35 percent of Canadians had their surgery within a month, whereas in the United States, 61 percent did. After four months, about 97 percent of Americans were able to have their surgery, whereas Canada struggled to achieve 80 percent.

America is significantly outperforming Canada in surgery wait times even as it’s likely that tens of thousands of Canadians come here to use the American system.

General surgery, procedures such as appendectomies, cholecystectomies, and hernia repairs, make up the largest portion of those who leave Canada for care. Based on the latest available date from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the total Canadian caseload for many of these procedures is about ten percent of America’s.

Private Coverage in Canada
America’s health system is certainly flawed and in need of reform, but there is clearly something working well enough that our system, despite already treating ten times more cases of appendicitis, can absorb the dissatisfied Canadians.

This has been a consistent trend since at least 2014 when an estimated 52,513 Canadians left for their medical care. In 2015, the number went down slightly to 45,619. 2016 exceeded the 2015 number with an estimated 63,459 patients seeking care elsewhere.

Moreover, both countries have had comparable rates of private health insurance coverage for the past 20 years, roughly 60-70 percent. But the Canadian private insurance market is entirely supplemental—it covers co-payments for services not covered or not entirely covered by the provincial insurance.

In America, private insurance is the norm and Medicare and Medicaid provide a health insurance safety net for elderly or low-income Americans.

Primary coverage, which is the predominant form of insurance in America, is all but illegal in Canada and would be under “Medicare for All” as well.

In the United States, government insurance covers gaps left by the private market. Private insurance is the norm and Medicare and Medicaid provide a health insurance safety net for elderly or low-income Americans.

In Canada, government-provided Medicare is the primary form of insurance, and private plans merely fill in gaps in coverage for those with more disposable income or employee benefits. The two systems are mirror opposites of one another.

Reform for More Flexibility
Health care is a product of the labor of physicians, nurses, technicians, and a whole ecosystem of health care workers. If making the government the primary payer for these services is so smart, why does the universal system next door shed patients by the tens of thousands to ours?

American health care can be improved and should be; American health care performs about middle-of-the-pack for many other items on the Commonwealth Fund survey. The administration already has loosened some regulations that will give employers more flexibility in providing health benefits and has pushed for price transparency.
There are many inefficiencies, often government-imposed, that increase the cost of health care and restrict the insurance market.

The administration already has loosened some regulations that will give employers more flexibility in providing health benefits and has begun to push for price transparency, which also should bring down costs.

Whatever the case may be, reforming American health care should focus on enabling our strengths. Under no circumstance should we tear it down and build it anew to resemble the system whose citizens escape by the tens of thousands just to be treated in a timely manner.

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#1532262 --- 07/17/19 04:12 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
You know something. I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with. Getting rid of Trump is the only thing I am concerned about. We will then spend a number of years getting America back to normal. If Trump is re-elected our 240 year experiment in democracy is over. The fact that you don't understand that I find mind-blowing.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532280 --- 07/18/19 07:01 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
You know something. I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with. Getting rid of Trump is the only thing I am concerned about. We will then spend a number of years getting America back to normal. If Trump is re-elected our 240 year experiment in democracy is over. The fact that you don't understand that I find mind-blowing.


What I find mind-blowing is that Trump is so far up your a--brain you can not have a conversation about anything without making it about Trump.

Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.

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#1532283 --- 07/18/19 07:18 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.


Edited by Ben444 (07/18/19 09:59 AM)
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532284 --- 07/18/19 07:19 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
What I find mind-blowing is that Trump is so far up your a--brain you can not have a conversation about anything without making it about Trump.
Trump will destroy our democracy unless he is stopped. Nothing else is very important compared to that.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532294 --- 07/18/19 12:12 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
What I find mind-blowing is that Trump is so far up your a--brain you can not have a conversation about anything without making it about Trump.
Trump will destroy our democracy unless he is stopped. Nothing else is very important compared to that.


so you don't care about peoples healthcare, you are most certainly a dem.

it is just about trump

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#1532296 --- 07/18/19 01:28 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
What I find mind-blowing is that Trump is so far up your a--brain you can not have a conversation about anything without making it about Trump.
Trump will destroy our democracy unless he is stopped. Nothing else is very important compared to that.

so you don't care about peoples healthcare, you are most certainly a dem.

it is just about trump
No. Trump is destroying Obamacare. Trump is so insecure he has to destroy anything with Obama's name on it. He says the Republican plan will be better but it is just another Trump lie as they have no plan of their own. All other Republicans in congress admit this. Will you guys ever learn?


Edited by Ben444 (07/18/19 02:13 PM)
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532297 --- 07/18/19 01:29 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532307 --- 07/18/19 02:38 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
No comment? I figured as much. LOL
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532310 --- 07/18/19 03:50 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
Please note that the last person to post in Headline News was the "person" who said at 7:01 AM today that I hi-jack all the threads. And that person have posted numerous times since then but they don't comment on this because they would look so foolish. ROFLMAO.


Edited by Ben444 (07/18/19 05:17 PM)
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532320 --- 07/19/19 11:19 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532335 --- 07/19/19 02:00 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
I am puzzled by the ant-Trump stuff you are posting on the Headline news thread? I assume you are trying to get me to post on there? Nope I enjoy reading all the stuff you are posting on there. smirk
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532345 --- 07/20/19 01:59 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
And the beat goes on.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532349 --- 07/20/19 06:38 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
And the beat goes on.
And on and on. Just like a member of Trumps blind cult base.


Edited by Ben444 (07/20/19 11:07 AM)
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532357 --- 07/21/19 03:10 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
And the beat goes on.
Sad. frown frown frown
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532375 --- 07/22/19 02:00 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
Day three. Amazing.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532378 --- 07/22/19 07:21 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The US spends 3.65 trillion on health.
So why is insulin 10 times as high here as in Canada? I have heard it often said what the US spends on health care per person is twice what any other modern country pays. There is a huge amount of things that need to be investigated here.

Clearly, it is not the salaries of CEOs.
Right lets leave the minimum wage of $7.25 but give government bureaucrats a salary of 10 million dollars.

The current Republican Party consists of white guys making $700 an hour convincing guys who make $25 an hour that guys making $7 an hour are the problem.



Lose the argument on health care and switch to minimum wage. typical.

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#1532379 --- 07/22/19 07:22 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
You know something. I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with. Getting rid of Trump is the only thing I am concerned about. We will then spend a number of years getting America back to normal. If Trump is re-elected our 240 year experiment in democracy is over. The fact that you don't understand that I find mind-blowing.


Lose the argument on health care and switch to Trump. Typical.

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#1532391 --- 07/22/19 08:11 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
You know something. I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with. Getting rid of Trump is the only thing I am concerned about. We will then spend a number of years getting America back to normal. If Trump is re-elected our 240 year experiment in democracy is over. The fact that you don't understand that I find mind-blowing.


Lose the argument on health care and switch to Trump. Typical.
I will vote for any Democrat running against Trump regardless of their view on health care. Defeating Trump is the most important item in the 2020 election. Anything else is way way down my list of priorities.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532392 --- 07/22/19 08:14 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still no apology? Typical.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532395 --- 07/22/19 09:59 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Lose the argument on health care and switch to Trump. Typical.


Since you insist I ran across this gem:

AARP Says GOP Health Plan Could Raise Pre-Existing Conditions Premiums to $25,700 per year.

*********************************************************

Yancey Roy @YanceyRoy

AARP leaders, blasting GOP health care bill, say those with pre-existing conditions could face annual premiums of $25,700.


Edited by Ben444 (07/22/19 12:39 PM)
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532416 --- 07/23/19 03:10 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Lose the argument on health care and switch to Trump. Typical.

Since you insist I ran across this gem:

AARP Says GOP Health Plan Could Raise Pre-Existing Conditions Premiums to $25,700 per year.

*********************************************************

Yancey Roy @YanceyRoy

AARP leaders, blasting GOP health care bill, say those with pre-existing conditions could face annual premiums of $25,700.
Now you don't want to talk health care either? LOL
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532417 --- 07/23/19 03:11 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
Day three. Amazing.
Day four. Amazing.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532419 --- 07/23/19 10:57 AM US health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
I pointed out one example of how it would be cheaper. Have you seen the salaries CEO's make? Sanders was just on TV saying next week he is going to Canada and buy insulin at 1/10 the price we pay here. Under their government run system of course. He is not my first choice for president but he brings out good points here.

Did you know that drugs are not covered under the Canadian system? Except in the hospital. So your argument really does not hold water. How does adding government bureaucrats to the healthcare equation make it more efficient?

* Because the American citizenry pays (by orders of magnitude) up to 100s of times more for the exact SAME pharmaceutical patents, development and manufacturing than do any other country. Therefore, who CARES whether or not they're included in insurance plans? They're cheaper than even the cost of our COVERED 'scripts.

When you enforce the laws against price gouging and reestablish corporate fair-pricing regulations, the cost (and efficiency) of improved infrastructure drops proportionately.

See how that works, Cwiggy?
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1532421 --- 07/23/19 11:04 AM US health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Did you know that drugs are not covered under the Canadian system? Except in the hospital.
No. I did not know that. But it sounds like the drugs are so cheap they may not be more than our co-pays down here.

see above*
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#1532422 --- 07/23/19 11:14 AM US health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Not seeing how this would lower the cost of healthcare even a little. Even if the bureaucrats work for free.

Really? You don't see how applying the BILLIONS of $ in annual savings from eliminating the components of corporate subsidies, greed and price-gouging lowers the cost and inefficiency of current American healthcare practices?

I'm really disappointed in you.


Prescription Drug Costs Driven By Manufacturer Price Hikes, Not Innovation:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot...-not-innovation

The High Cost of Prescription Drugs in the United States-Origins and Prospects for Reform:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2545691
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#1532423 --- 07/23/19 11:28 AM US health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
So let's eliminate 125 million in salaries. The US spends 3.65 trillion on health. Not seeing how this would lower the cost of healthcare even a little. Even if the bureaucrats work for free.

Consider THIS, then factor in the obscene cost of executive salaries and pensions...

https://youtu.be/EZI4OG1qSzk

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/...drug-companies/
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1532424 --- 07/23/19 11:34 AM US health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
You know something. I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with. Getting rid of Trump is the only thing I am concerned about. We will then spend a number of years getting America back to normal. If Trump is re-elected our 240 year experiment in democracy is over. The fact that you don't understand that I find mind-blowing.

Lose the argument on health care and switch to Trump. Typical.

FALSE argument:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-adm...-182256922.html
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1532425 --- 07/23/19 11:39 AM US health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
So if it is not the government that reduces the price of drugs in Canada, what is it. Unlike the 20 +/- Dem candidates that believe the only solution is a government take over, and why not they love to have power over what everyone does, I am willing to have a conversation.

Don't be delusional. The United States government is a federal system in which the federal and state governments share power and the Constitution outlines the responsibilities of the federal government.

The U.S. Constitution outlines the nation's law-making process and establishes institutions to carry out this function. Our Founding Fathers feared the concentration of power in a single individual or branch of government. To prevent this, they separated law-making powers among three branches: legislative, executive and judicial. The legislature, composed of the House of Representatives and the Senate, creates laws. The executive branch enforces laws under the leadership of the president. The judiciary, which includes a federal court system headed by the Supreme Court, decides the constitutionality of these laws. This separation of powers prevents one branch from gaining influence over the others.

Think "WELL-REGULATED militia."

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#1532433 --- 07/23/19 02:18 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline news thread. That is so disgusting.
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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532467 --- 07/25/19 01:49 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline news thread. That is so disgusting.
Amazing.
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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532477 --- 07/25/19 07:31 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Thank your for starting my health care thread.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/07/republicans-refusal-to-expand-medicaid-had-a-cost-15000-deaths/

Republicans’ refusal to expand Medicaid had a cost: 15,000 deaths
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#1532496 --- 07/25/19 03:01 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Want to Fix Health Insurance? Start With the Tax Code

Underneath the tribalistic bullheadedness and partisan signaling lies a common enemy: employer-sponsored health insurance.
Thursday, July 25, 2019


Economics Health Care Health Insurance Free Market Tax Code
In March, President Trump tweeted, “The Republican Party will become ‘the party of healthcare!’”


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
The Republican Party will become “The Party of Healthcare!”

136K
12:58 PM - Mar 26, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy
62.4K people are talking about this
Given the GOP’s inability to deliver on that promise over the better part of the past decade, many have remained despondent. After all, health care policy may be the one area where such disparate visions would make any attempt at compromise futile and, perhaps, even counterproductive. But underneath the tribalistic bullheadedness and partisan signaling lies a common enemy: employer-sponsored health insurance.

Employer-Based Coverage
Since the beginning of this year, 175 million Americans have received their health insurance through employer plans. Employer-based coverage (distinct from the individual insurance market) arose during World War II through wage controls in the form of preferential tax treatment. Because of that, employers enjoyed the benefits of offering tax-exempt health coverage, but this has come at the expense of consumers in the health care market.

Rather than negotiating with insurance companies directly, employees have outsourced their negotiating capacity to their employers.

One study conducted by health care policy expert Avik Roy measured the benefits of a variety of health insurance programs through a comprehensive grading scale that, among other metrics, included underlying cost, freedom of choice, and annual premiums. In the end, they concluded that employer health insurance ranked far below individually-purchased insurance and Medicare Advantage.

Rather than negotiating with insurance companies directly, employees have outsourced their negotiating capacity to their employers, and the ideal insurance plan might not be the same for everyone involved. After all, not only does this put employees in job-lock, as lamented by Democrat and Republican politicians alike, but it also undermines consumers’ sensitivity to price—a necessary component in a functioning free market.

Let me explain.

Out of Pocket Payments Are Ideal
Ideally, health procedures and expenses would be paid out-of-pocket instead of being covered through a bloated insurance plan. While this may seem like a more costly method for individual people, allowing routine expenses to be paid out-of-pocket would end up lowering the cost of premiums and the cost of such expenses. It’s similar to the way car insurance doesn’t cover routine oil changes. It’s how they keep their car insurance plans from being completely unaffordable. But our current health care system doesn’t operate like that. In fact, it continues to cover some of the most rudimentary services—and continues to be outrageously pricey.

Since insurance companies, not consumers, are negotiating prices and payment, consumers are left in the dark about the true cost of health care services. Economist John Cochrane explains that “with little price discovery left in health care, health insurers have to do all the price negotiation in a vacuum.” All that does is protect health care providers from competing with one another and ultimately cutting their prices.

Employers are incentivized to direct a big chunk of employee compensation to their bloated insurance plans.

Further, since employer-sponsored insurance enjoys preferential treatment in the tax code, employers are incentivized to direct a big chunk of employee compensation to their bloated insurance plans. This helps them circumvent taxation, and price insensitivity becomes worse and worse.

The prevalence of employer-based health insurance is largely responsible for the pre-existing conditions crisis that has dominated our national discourse for the last decade. Because of the overuse of employer-sponsored insurance, the individual health insurance market has been under-utilized despite offering greater protections for patients with costly illnesses.

As health care policy expert Michael Cannon notes,

high-cost patients with guaranteed-renewable coverage are roughly half as likely to end up uninsured as high-cost patients with small-group coverage, and unlike employer-sponsored coverage, the risk of losing guaranteed-renewable coverage does not rise with health risk.

In other words, tying health care to an employer greatly puts one at risk if a serious illness is developed. And if that illness precludes one from working, that individual loses the employer-sponsored insurance.

Individual Health Insurance Market
This, of course, ultimately led to the popular yet misguided pre-existing provision of “Obamacare,” which barred insurers from discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions. While noble in its intentions, this regulation created a negative spiral in which the increased premiums prompted healthy individuals to forgo picking up health insurance, which further increased the cost of premiums, and so on.

A positive and permanent solution would be cultivating an individual health insurance market where plans would have guaranteed renewability and a total satisfaction guarantee. Under these stipulations—and unlike employer-sponsored coverage—individuals would be able to retain their insurance moving between jobs, premiums would not increase if you got sick, and you could change insurance plans without the risk of higher premiums.

Republicans routinely insist that a free insurance market is the solution to rising premiums and bureaucratic inefficiencies.

If the preferential tax treatment ends, employees would see their cash compensation rise. With the increase in wages, people could shop for insurance that best fits their needs. Or, alternatively, employers could fund health reimbursement accounts, effectively allowing employers to divert pre-tax cash that would otherwise go toward buying employee insurance into employee accounts that would be used by employees to purchase insurance in the individual market.

Republicans routinely insist that a free insurance market is the solution to rising premiums and bureaucratic inefficiencies. This, realistically speaking, can’t happen unless Congress dispenses with the preferential tax treatment for employer-sponsored health insurance.

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#1532498 --- 07/25/19 03:12 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Republicans routinely insist that a free insurance market is the solution to rising premiums and bureaucratic inefficiencies. This, realistically speaking, can’t happen unless Congress dispenses with the preferential tax treatment for employer-sponsored health insurance.
And if the Republicans stop giving million dollar tax cuts to billionaires.
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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532513 --- 07/26/19 05:36 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Still hi-jacking the Headline News thread I see. Tsk. Tsk.
Nothing new to report here but I will keep trying to get a comment.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532565 --- 07/27/19 05:28 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
This must be so humiliating for cwjga grin grin grin
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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532607 --- 07/30/19 10:00 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
A thread named about me! How nice!

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/07/women-t...be-an-american/

Women Trump voters repulsed by president’s increasingly ugly rhetoric: ‘I’m ashamed to be an American
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#1532665 --- 07/31/19 12:49 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532667 --- 07/31/19 01:21 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Sleepwalking is exactly the proper usage describing Trump. The fool started a trade war with Russia and China in our trade of grain but what does he do? cause both countries to buy from someone else thus drying up the ability of farmers to sell their product. Now he self righteously and ceremonially announce a 15 Billion dollar bailout....by all standards, we call this passing out welfare to people that you harmed in the first place.What's the opposite of the term MIDAS TOUCH?
_________________________
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#1532668 --- 07/31/19 01:57 PM health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
What is Medicare for All?
By Jon Greenberg

Bernie Sanders’ idea of Medicare for All would be a single, national health insurance program that would cover everyone who lives in the United States. In the bill he introduced in 2017, it would pay for every medically necessary service, from routine doctor visits to surgery to mental health to prescription drugs. Dental and vision care are part of the package, too. The details on long-term care might vary between the Senate and House versions, but broadly speaking, nursing home and related care grow under both proposals.

The government would set payment rates for services, drugs and medical equipment. Each year, the secretary of Health and Human Services would determine a national budget for all covered services and spending would be limited by that cap. For individuals, there would be no costs — no deductibles, no copays or coinsurance. The two exceptions would be for some prescription drugs — though that would be limited to $200 a year — and possibly for long-term care.

It would replace all other insurance, with limited exceptions, such as cosmetic surgery. Employer-provided insurance, Medicaid and ultimately Medicare would all disappear.

Would this proposal simply extend Medicare to everyone? Is it literally Medicare for all?
No. Medicare for All is much more generous than the current Medicare program. Right now, the Medicare program is for Americans 65 and over; they receive care, but they’re also responsible for part of the costs. Unlike traditional Medicare, Sanders’ Medicare for All would cover medical bills completely, with no burden on the patient. There would be no Medigap insurance or Medicare Advantage.


If Medicare for All sounds a lot like a single-payer health care system — where the government foots the bill for people’s health care — that’s because the two are largely the same. The new name seems intended to make the concept more popular. When the Kaiser Family Foundation asked people in 2017 how they felt about the term single-payer health, 48 percent gave it a thumbs up. When Kaiser asked them how they felt about Medicare for All, support rose to 62 percent.

So keep your private insurance because all things will not be covered

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#1532688 --- 07/31/19 03:56 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: cwjga
What is Medicare for All?
By Jon Greenberg

Bernie Sanders’ idea of Medicare for All would be a single, national health insurance program that would cover everyone who lives in the United States. In the bill he introduced in 2017, it would pay for every medically necessary service, from routine doctor visits to surgery to mental health to prescription drugs. Dental and vision care are part of the package, too. The details on long-term care might vary between the Senate and House versions, but broadly speaking, nursing home and related care grow under both proposals.

The government would set payment rates for services, drugs and medical equipment. Each year, the secretary of Health and Human Services would determine a national budget for all covered services and spending would be limited by that cap. For individuals, there would be no costs — no deductibles, no copays or coinsurance. The two exceptions would be for some prescription drugs — though that would be limited to $200 a year — and possibly for long-term care.

It would replace all other insurance, with limited exceptions, such as cosmetic surgery. Employer-provided insurance, Medicaid and ultimately Medicare would all disappear.

Would this proposal simply extend Medicare to everyone? Is it literally Medicare for all?
No. Medicare for All is much more generous than the current Medicare program. Right now, the Medicare program is for Americans 65 and over; they receive care, but they’re also responsible for part of the costs. Unlike traditional Medicare, Sanders’ Medicare for All would cover medical bills completely, with no burden on the patient. There would be no Medigap insurance or Medicare Advantage.


If Medicare for All sounds a lot like a single-payer health care system — where the government foots the bill for people’s health care — that’s because the two are largely the same. The new name seems intended to make the concept more popular. When the Kaiser Family Foundation asked people in 2017 how they felt about the term single-payer health, 48 percent gave it a thumbs up. When Kaiser asked them how they felt about Medicare for All, support rose to 62 percent.

So keep your private insurance because all things will not be covered


"It would pay for every medically necessary service."

Yup. If you choke on THAT cwiggy, your medical bill will be covered.
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1532689 --- 07/31/19 03:58 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Teonan]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
laugh
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1532692 --- 07/31/19 07:41 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/07/trump-a...ut-the-economy/

Trump-appointed Fed chair just completely undercut the GOP’s claims about the economy


While announcing the first interest rate cut since the 2008 financial crisis — which President Donald Trump has been furiously calling for — Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell systematically undercut the Republican Party’s claims about its policies’ effects on the economy.

The most central justification for the cut, as CNBC’s John Harwood noted, is actually antithetical to the claims the GOP made in support of its 2017 tax cut. The benefits of that legislation largely went to corporations and wealthy people, and it was supposed to drive up business investment in the United States.

But it doesn’t seem to be working, as I’ve reported previously and Powell’s remarks revealed. This confirmed what many skeptics of the Republican plan feared.

“The manufacturing and business investment part of the economy is not growing very much,” Powell said Wednesday.


Rather than seeing the economy as undergoing a Trumpian renaissance, as the White House likes to sell it, Powell said that we’re in a state of “uncertainty” that needs more accommodative policy.

And it’s not just the GOP tax cut that seems to be failing to deliver. Powell indicated that Trump’s trade wars are also a significant drag on the economy.

“In light of the implications of global developments for the economic outlook as well as muted inflation pressures, the committee decided to lower the target range for the federal funds rate,” the FOMC said in a statement.

More explicitly, Powell said the rate cut is meant to protect against the “downside risks from weak global growth and trade tensions.”

So, in other words, despite Republican boasting about a booming economy, a massive $1.5 trillion tax cut, a wild deregulatory push, and Trump’s imagined dealmaking talents being applied to the global trade arena, the Fed chair thinks the economy is at risk enough that he should take a step the reserve bank hasn’t taken in over a decade.

Trump has been lambasting Powell and the Fed, calling for this kind of rate cut (though he would likely prefer it to be even more drastic), in recent weeks and months. These attacks have undermined the Fed’s independence and raised questions about the motivation behind the new cuts.

But they also reveal that Trump is not actually confident that the tax cut and his agenda of deregulation will help the economy enough to ensure his re-election. And the fact that the GOP, as well as much of conservative media, has gone along with this charade even though they called for interest rate increases from the Fed under President Barack Obama when the economy was struggling to recover from a recession, shows the craven and malleable nature of right-wing ideology.


Edited by Ben444 (07/31/19 07:48 PM)
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532716 --- 08/01/19 09:36 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
What is Medicare for All?
By Jon Greenberg

Bernie Sanders’ idea of Medicare for All would be a single, national health insurance program that would cover everyone who lives in the United States. In the bill he introduced in 2017, it would pay for every medically necessary service, from routine doctor visits to surgery to mental health to prescription drugs. Dental and vision care are part of the package, too. The details on long-term care might vary between the Senate and House versions, but broadly speaking, nursing home and related care grow under both proposals.

The government would set payment rates for services, drugs and medical equipment. Each year, the secretary of Health and Human Services would determine a national budget for all covered services and spending would be limited by that cap. For individuals, there would be no costs — no deductibles, no copays or coinsurance. The two exceptions would be for some prescription drugs — though that would be limited to $200 a year — and possibly for long-term care.

It would replace all other insurance, with limited exceptions, such as cosmetic surgery. Employer-provided insurance, Medicaid and ultimately Medicare would all disappear.

Would this proposal simply extend Medicare to everyone? Is it literally Medicare for all?
No. Medicare for All is much more generous than the current Medicare program. Right now, the Medicare program is for Americans 65 and over; they receive care, but they’re also responsible for part of the costs. Unlike traditional Medicare, Sanders’ Medicare for All would cover medical bills completely, with no burden on the patient. There would be no Medigap insurance or Medicare Advantage.


If Medicare for All sounds a lot like a single-payer health care system — where the government foots the bill for people’s health care — that’s because the two are largely the same. The new name seems intended to make the concept more popular. When the Kaiser Family Foundation asked people in 2017 how they felt about the term single-payer health, 48 percent gave it a thumbs up. When Kaiser asked them how they felt about Medicare for All, support rose to 62 percent.

So keep your private insurance because all things will not be covered

Top
#1532717 --- 08/01/19 10:25 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Remember 10 years ago, you Conservatives fought the ACA? Funny here we are 10 years later and the Republicans have no replacement...so guess what health insurance millions are using...yep...Obamacare. Ignorance on your part makes you look very hypocritical at best because offering ideals are better than the million you guys spent of repeal and replace. also remember son inaction isn't why your party has on 40 percent support from the nation of voters......of course you know about electoral and popular vote right? So lets talk once again about the Republican's influence in regard to health insurance and their lack of popularity when the issue is mentioned.
_________________________
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#1532763 --- 08/02/19 10:02 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
So, You Want Canadian Health Care?
Mona Charen



These "debates" are to serious policy discussions as a kazoo is to an orchestra. You can say a kazoo is an instrument, and you can say that these truncated thoughts are proposals, but you'll invite smirks.

This is not a slam on Democrats. The Republican "debates" in 2016 were no better. When a stage is sardined with candidates, there is no alternative to keeping answers short. If the voters had longer attention spans, we could arrange four or five nights of less manic encounters, which would give candidates the chance to explain themselves. But since we don't, we have unedifying and demeaning soundbite pingpong matches.

It isn't clear that they merit the intense media interest they generate. Must Joe Biden prove he's not too old? Must Cory Booker "have a moment" after a lackluster first debate? Maybe. Then again, Donald Trump performed abysmally in the 2016 debates. He didn't know the issues and made excruciating errors. His great skill, if you can call it that, was in lobbing juvenile taunts at his rivals. Yet he was acclaimed the winner by the viewers.

Several candidates this week stressed that the Democratic Party is veering too far to the left, which was refreshing, if probably futile. The undertow pulling the party left is very strong. As recently as 2009, the public option in health care was considered too extreme, which is why President Barack Obama omitted it. Now, it's the moderate position compared with "Medicare for All," which is endorsed by Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Andrew Yang, Bill de Blasio, Julian Castro and, with some reservations, Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg.


As usual, Sanders and Elizabeth Warren were in full outrage mode about the corporate villains who are sucking us dry. It isn't a sign of our political maturity that the most successful politicians now are demagogues who find some target to blame -- foreign competition, immigrants, greedy corporations, millionaires and billionaires. Warren claims that "giant corporations" and billionaires will foot the bill for her MFA, which rivals Trump's claim that Mexico would pay for his wall. Sanders pointed to the nation across the river from Detroit to shame Americans about health care not being treated as a "yooman right" in this country.


This seems like a good time to review what Canada's single-payer health care system does and doesn't do.

It's true that all Canadian citizens and legal residents (though not immigrants there illegal) get "free" health care, but only in the sense that you don't get a bill after seeing a doctor or visiting a hospital. Medical care is subsidized by taxes, but the price comes in another form as well -- rationing. A 2018 report from the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, found that wait times between seeing a general practitioner and a specialist average 19.8 weeks. That's the average. There are variations among specialties. Those hoping to see an orthopedist wait an average of 39 weeks in Nova Scotia, while those seeking an oncologist wait about 3.8 weeks.


Canada has the same modern medical technology that the U.S. offers, but Canadians must wait more than a month for a CT scan, more than 10 weeks for an MRI, and almost a month for an ultrasound.

Imagine the anxiety of learning that you need an MRI to find out whether the mass in your breast is anything to worry about and then being told that the next available appointment is in 10 weeks. In addition to the psychic price, Canadians who had to wait for treatment expended an average of $1,822 out of pocket last year, due to lost wages and other costs. The Fraser Institute also calculated the value of the lost productivity of those waiting for treatment -- nearly $5,600 per patient, totaling $5.8 billion nationally. Wait times to see physicians in the U.S. have been creeping up in recent years -- perhaps in response to increased demand following Obamacare -- but remain much shorter than Canada's or other OECD countries with nationalized health services.


When there's an artificial shortage of a good or service, a black market usually follows. I have heard from several Canadians that paying doctors bribes to jump the line is not uncommon. But Canada has another pressure reliever: Ninety percent of Canadians live within 90 miles of the U.S. border, and medical centers in Buffalo, Chicago, Rochester and elsewhere receive tens of thousands of Canadian patients every year.

Advocates respond that Canadians are happy with their system, and that's fine. It's their choice. But Americans tend not to be so docile about delays. And in any case, the Democrats' pretense that we can provide "Medicare for All" and receive the same level of care we've become accustomed to is applesauce. You want the Canadian system? Fine. Just know what you're giving up.

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#1532766 --- 08/02/19 10:09 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
So, You Want Canadian Health Care?
We want health care that covers everyone as is done in every other industrialized modern nation.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532767 --- 08/02/19 10:11 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Just like Trump you lie and move on and think everyone else will too.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532788 --- 08/02/19 01:29 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Why "Medicare for All" Would Mean Quality Care for None
You can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.

Sunday, February 17, 2019

Adam Barsouk

Economics Medicare for All Socialized Medicine Single Payer Kamala Harris Bernie Sanders Central Planning Health Care
In a CNN interview on January 28, Democratic presidential hopeful Kamala Harris came out in brazen support for Medicare-for-All, i.e. single-payer healthcare in the US.

Confronted with pushback from all those to the right of Bernie Sanders, she has since backpedaled, with an adviser saying “she would be open to more moderate reform plans.”

Nevertheless, the fact that a Democratic frontrunner unequivocally supported a government takeover of health insurance should be worrying to all Americans.

Like Your Insurance? Too Bad
Move on to what? To a government takeover that has proven ineffective and deadly all over the world?

After her jaw-dropping declaration, Harris was asked what she’d say to those Americans who like the insurance they have, which according to a recent poll, is 71 percent of employed Americans. Harris’s answer was, effectively, too bad.

“Let’s eliminate all that,” Harris said, speaking about private insurance and the hassle of getting approval for certain costly procedures. “Let’s move on.”

Move on to what? To a government takeover that has proven ineffective and deadly all over the world?

You Can’t Cut Costs without Cutting Quality
Democrats frequently point to the Nordic “success stories” as examples of how government-managed healthcare can save money. Little do they realize that these nations spend less on health care because they spend far more on social safety net services that help keep the poorest among them healthy.

You’d likely end up paying almost double as much as you currently do in taxes.

At the end of the day, the governments in Nordic countries spend far more per person, and in turn, their income taxes reach as high as 60 percent. In the US, even that level of taxation would not be enough. Bernie Sanders’s single-payer proposal would cost a whopping $33 trillion over its first 10 years, or about three-fourths of everything we already spend.

In other words, you’d likely end up paying almost double as much as you currently do in taxes (or we’ll just further run up the debt for our great-great-grandchildren).

Medicare-for-All proponents argue that this same estimate is actually $2 trillion less than what would be privately spent in those ten years. In other words, the doubled taxation would, for some, be offset by not having to buy health insurance.

But even these potential savings (of about 6 percent) open up a Pandora’s box of issues. For one thing, such a proposal would constitute taxation and redistribution the likes of which we haven’t seen since WWII, and such taxation is guaranteed to slow down and reverse the growth we’ve seen under President Trump.

You can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.

But moreover, as someone who’s worked in health care for years, I can assure you that, just like in any other field, you can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.

Sure, a certain proportion of resources goes toward regulations, which can be and should be made more efficient (though Obamacare—or ACA—has only made things worse, and anyone who’s been to the DMV knows our government isn’t a paragon of efficiency).

But the majority of our spending goes towards funding life-saving research and offering the best specialist services and procedures in the world. Cutting spending on drugs and procedures could reduce research spending by as much as to 40 percent.

Cutting salaries for doctors and hospitals could exacerbate the 100k physician shortage we already have, leading to wait-times like those in Canada or the UK. In Canada, Bernie Sanders’s “city upon a hill,” about 3 percent of the population is currently in line for some sort of medical procedure. The costs of single-payer are much higher than $33 trillion.

Insurance Isn’t the Same as Coverage
But Harris wasn’t done. Her main argument against private insurance was that some patients get denied coverage for certain procedures—an incredibly laughable justification considering how patients, under single-payer systems, are more likely to be denied coverage without any form of recourse.

In the UK, for instance, NICE decides whether a certain procedure is “worth the money.”

In the UK, for instance, the National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) decides whether a certain procedure is “worth the money.” The official policy is that if something that can prolong your life by six months costs more than 30,000 pounds, you’re out of luck.

Despite our similar lifestyles, people are more likely to die of cancer and heart disease in the UK. The likely culprit? Government rationing. When a certain life-saving heart stent tripled in price (from 300 to 900 pounds), NICE banned it altogether.

At least in the US, when your insurer denies you something expensive, you have the option to switch to a different insurer. In the UK, you’re stuck with whatever the government is willing to pay for, even if it costs you your life.

Trying to fix our current mess, wrought by too much government, with single-payer is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

Obama learned the hard way that giving all Americans health insurance is not the same as providing them with valuable health care. Under the ACA, as more sick people got insurance without a premium, rates skyrocketed and life expectancies fell. Trying to fix our current mess, wrought by too much government, with single-payer is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

Today, Kamala Harris no longer unequivocally supports single-payer, and with good reason. But when the election comes around next year, we mustn’t forget that Medicare-for-All was her original, knee-jerk answer.

Senator Harris will have to look deep into her heart to decide what she supports—if the government can afford her cardioscopy, that is.

Top
#1532803 --- 08/02/19 05:31 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Democrats frequently point to the Nordic “success stories” as examples of how government-managed healthcare can save money. Little do they realize that these nations spend less on health care because they spend far more on social safety net services that help keep the poorest among them healthy.
LOL. Is there something wrong with that? That sounds like a good idea to me too.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

Top
#1532823 --- 08/03/19 01:40 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Why "Medicare for All" Would Mean Quality Care for None
You can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.

Sunday, February 17, 2019

Adam Barsouk

Economics Medicare for All Socialized Medicine Single Payer Kamala Harris Bernie Sanders Central Planning Health Care
In a CNN interview on January 28, Democratic presidential hopeful Kamala Harris came out in brazen support for Medicare-for-All, i.e. single-payer healthcare in the US.

Confronted with pushback from all those to the right of Bernie Sanders, she has since backpedaled, with an adviser saying “she would be open to more moderate reform plans.”

Nevertheless, the fact that a Democratic frontrunner unequivocally supported a government takeover of health insurance should be worrying to all Americans.

Like Your Insurance? Too Bad
Move on to what? To a government takeover that has proven ineffective and deadly all over the world?

After her jaw-dropping declaration, Harris was asked what she’d say to those Americans who like the insurance they have, which according to a recent poll, is 71 percent of employed Americans. Harris’s answer was, effectively, too bad.

“Let’s eliminate all that,” Harris said, speaking about private insurance and the hassle of getting approval for certain costly procedures. “Let’s move on.”

Move on to what? To a government takeover that has proven ineffective and deadly all over the world?

You Can’t Cut Costs without Cutting Quality
Democrats frequently point to the Nordic “success stories” as examples of how government-managed healthcare can save money. Little do they realize that these nations spend less on health care because they spend far more on social safety net services that help keep the poorest among them healthy.

You’d likely end up paying almost double as much as you currently do in taxes.

At the end of the day, the governments in Nordic countries spend far more per person, and in turn, their income taxes reach as high as 60 percent. In the US, even that level of taxation would not be enough. Bernie Sanders’s single-payer proposal would cost a whopping $33 trillion over its first 10 years, or about three-fourths of everything we already spend.


In other words, you’d likely end up paying almost double as much as you currently do in taxes (or we’ll just further run up the debt for our great-great-grandchildren).

Medicare-for-All proponents argue that this same estimate is actually $2 trillion less than what would be privately spent in those ten years. In other words, the doubled taxation would, for some, be offset by not having to buy health insurance.

But even these potential savings (of about 6 percent) open up a Pandora’s box of issues. For one thing, such a proposal would constitute taxation and redistribution the likes of which we haven’t seen since WWII, and such taxation is guaranteed to slow down and reverse the growth we’ve seen under President Trump.

You can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.

But moreover, as someone who’s worked in health care for years, I can assure you that, just like in any other field, you can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.

Sure, a certain proportion of resources goes toward regulations, which can be and should be made more efficient (though Obamacare—or ACA—has only made things worse, and anyone who’s been to the DMV knows our government isn’t a paragon of efficiency).

But the majority of our spending goes towards funding life-saving research and offering the best specialist services and procedures in the world. Cutting spending on drugs and procedures could reduce research spending by as much as to 40 percent.

Cutting salaries for doctors and hospitals could exacerbate the 100k physician shortage we already have, leading to wait-times like those in Canada or the UK. In Canada, Bernie Sanders’s “city upon a hill,” about 3 percent of the population is currently in line for some sort of medical procedure. The costs of single-payer are much higher than $33 trillion.

Insurance Isn’t the Same as Coverage
But Harris wasn’t done. Her main argument against private insurance was that some patients get denied coverage for certain procedures—an incredibly laughable justification considering how patients, under single-payer systems, are more likely to be denied coverage without any form of recourse.

In the UK, for instance, NICE decides whether a certain procedure is “worth the money.”

In the UK, for instance, the National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) decides whether a certain procedure is “worth the money.” The official policy is that if something that can prolong your life by six months costs more than 30,000 pounds, you’re out of luck.

Despite our similar lifestyles, people are more likely to die of cancer and heart disease in the UK. The likely culprit? Government rationing. When a certain life-saving heart stent tripled in price (from 300 to 900 pounds), NICE banned it altogether.

At least in the US, when your insurer denies you something expensive, you have the option to switch to a different insurer. In the UK, you’re stuck with whatever the government is willing to pay for, even if it costs you your life.

Trying to fix our current mess, wrought by too much government, with single-payer is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

Obama learned the hard way that giving all Americans health insurance is not the same as providing them with valuable health care. Under the ACA, as more sick people got insurance without a premium, rates skyrocketed and life expectancies fell. Trying to fix our current mess, wrought by too much government, with single-payer is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

Today, Kamala Harris no longer unequivocally supports single-payer, and with good reason. But when the election comes around next year, we mustn’t forget that Medicare-for-All was her original, knee-jerk answer.

Senator Harris will have to look deep into her heart to decide what she supports—if the government can afford her cardioscopy, that is.

Top
#1532825 --- 08/03/19 01:55 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Adam Barsouk
fox News and the Daily Caller! LOL

*********************************************

Adam Barsouk is a cancer researcher, medical student, and science, medicine, and policy author. His work has been featured in Fox News, The Daily Caller,
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532828 --- 08/03/19 01:56 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why "Medicare for All" Would Mean Quality Care for None
You can’t significantly cut costs without cutting quality.


Sunday, February 17, 2019

Adam Barsouk
I don't care as long as Trump is gone and our democracy is saved!
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532904 --- 08/06/19 12:47 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Trump Administration Plans to Legalize Importing Low-Cost Canadian Prescription Drugs

BY RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR / AP JULY 31, 2019

(WASHINGTON) — The Trump administration said Wednesday it will set up a system to allow Americans to legally import lower-cost prescription drugs from Canada, weakening a longstanding ban that had stood as a top priority for the politically powerful pharmaceutical industry.

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar made the announcement Wednesday morning. Previous administrations had sided with the industry on importation, echoing its concerns that it could expose patients to risks from counterfeit or substandard medications. Azar, a former drug industry executive, said U.S. patients will be able to import medications safely and effectively, with oversight from the Food and Drug Administration. The administration’s proposal would allow states, wholesalers and pharmacists to get FDA approval to import certain medications that are also available here.

It’s unclear how soon consumers will see results.

Most patients take affordable generic drugs to manage conditions such as high blood pressure or elevated blood sugars. But polls show concern about the prices of breakthrough medications for intractable illnesses like cancer or hepatitis C infection, whose costs can run to $100,000 or more. And long-available drugs like insulin have also seen price increases that have forced some people with diabetes to ration their own doses.


“For too long American patients have been paying exorbitantly high prices for prescription drugs that are made available to other countries at lower prices,” Azar said in a statement that credited President Donald Trump for pushing the idea. The administration’s move comes as the industry is facing a crescendo of consumer complaints over prices, as well as legislation from both parties in Congress to rein in costs.


Trump is supporting a Senate bill to cap medication costs for Medicare recipients and require drugmakers to pay rebates to the program if price hikes exceed inflation. Democrats in the House are pressing for a vote on a bill allowing Medicare to directly negotiate prices on behalf of millions of seniors enrolled in its prescription drug plan. Separately, the Trump administration is pursuing a regulation that would tie what Medicare pays for drugs administered in doctors’ offices to lower international prices.

The importation idea won praise from a key lawmaker, Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, chairman of the panel that oversees Medicare. Grassley said on Twitter that importation would lower prescription drug costs, and all drugs from abroad must be verified as safe by the FDA. He and Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota have a bill to facilitate importation.

Eyeing his reelection campaign, Trump has made lowering prescription drug prices one of his top goals. As a candidate, he called for allowing Americans to import prescription drugs, and recently he’s backed a Florida law allowing state residents to gain access to medications from Canada



Drug prices are lower in other economically advanced countries because governments take a leading role in setting prices. But in the U.S., Medicare is not permitted to negotiate with drug companies.

Some experts have been skeptical of allowing imports from Canada, partly from concerns about whether Canadian suppliers have the capacity to meet the demands of the much larger U.S. market. But consumer groups have strongly backed the idea, arguing that it will pressure U.S. drugmakers to reduce their prices. They also point out that the pharmaceutical industry is a global business and many of the ingredients in medications sold in the U.S. are manufactured abroad.


AARP had pushed hard for the Florida plan, saying it’s possible to safely import lower-priced, equally effective drugs and it would promote worldwide price competition.

The drug industry lobby, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, has successfully blocked past efforts in Washington to allow importation. It argues that patients would be at risk of receiving counterfeit or adulterated medications.


Trump takes another one from do nothing DEMS

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#1532908 --- 08/06/19 01:01 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
(WASHINGTON) — The Trump administration said Wednesday it will set up a system to allow Americans to legally import lower-cost prescription drugs from Canada, weakening a longstanding ban that had stood as a top priority for the politically powerful pharmaceutical industry.
I thought Trump was bringing jobs back to the US? grin
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1532909 --- 08/06/19 01:06 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
He is, workers to help permanently seal the coal mines he falsely stated that he would keep open. If he goes to Kentucky, he can talk the auto makers into re manufacturing a carburetor that gets 15 MPG
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1532910 --- 08/06/19 01:08 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1532911 --- 08/06/19 01:15 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1532912 --- 08/06/19 01:56 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1532913 --- 08/06/19 02:21 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Don't wait too long in anticipating your local representative or Presidential candidate to help you out in regard to drug prices. Our country is so absorb in name calling ie. Liberal/Conservative, that neither side is actually looking at results from either side. I'll ask the Republicans, are we so dumb to think that Trump created a turn around economy on his own or did Obama help in it's success? Secondly, if the country is now controlled by the White House and Senate which BTW was held entirely by the GOP, why wasn't a health reform created by the GOP? I'm being the devil's advocate in will emphatically state that people have become so blinded by lies, innuendos, misinformation etc. that politics has made us all illiterates. Most politician lie and will continue to do so. The best gauge is to look for honesty in the form of doing something instead of idle promises.... Name any advancement in terms of healthcare, infrastructure, education, crimes, mass killings, school bullying, corruption in the police force, cheaper gas prices, competitive drug prices etc.While preparing your next reason to deem Republicans better than Democrats, you best give something better than a damn cartoon but if that's all you have, just as we surmise....you're playing poker with a bad hand and as usual...do a lot of bluffing and bloviating. @ Ben, keep up the great posting of citing your findings. @ Cwjga Your next cartoon signifies that you do comprehend my facts but don't act surprise when one calls you a liar due to unpublished citation..


https://theintercept.com/2019/07/30/kamala-harris-big-pharma-donations/
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1533162 --- 08/15/19 03:49 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
You and Trump are two lying peas in a pod.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1533247 --- 08/20/19 01:08 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/faceboo...iolating-rules/

Facebook finally yanks Trump ad after his campaign gets caught blatantly violating rules
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1533339 --- 08/26/19 08:14 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Distorting the Doctor-Patient Relationship
Imagine knowing how much a medical procedure cost before undergoing it...


Arnold Ahlert · Aug. 26, 2019


Imagine an American going to the supermarket to buy a loaf of bread and, when discovering that it has no price marked on it, inquiring how much it cost — only to be asked a question in return: What type of food insurance do you have? Most people would consider such a scenario bizarre. Unfortunately, if one changes “loaf of bread” to “knee operation,” the rest of the story becomes quite familiar.

Why familiar? Because the same Americans who would be infuriated by such a scenario at the supermarket have long grown accustomed — or is that resigned — to the idea that price transparency for healthcare services is as elusive as the White Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland. This is no accident. Contrary to food pricing, there are a host of middlemen between the consumer and the provider whose own interests depend on obscuring those prices. Self-remunerating interests that often inflate the cost of healthcare. And because true transparency is anathema to those interests, the Trump administration’s effort to provide it is meeting stiff resistance.

In 2018, the administration released a rule requiring hospitals to post their “chargemaster” rates, or list the prices for their services online. For those unfamiliar with medical lingo, a chargemaster is “a list of all the billable services and items to a patient or a patient’s health insurance provider,” explains columnist Jacqueline LaPointe. “The chargemaster captures the costs of each procedure, service, supply, prescription drug, and diagnostic test provided at the hospital, as well as any fees associated with services, such as equipment fees and room charges.”

All of those charges require billing codes, and the costs they generate are the result of negotiations between hospitals and insurance providers. Right now both entities consider those negations to be proprietary and confidential — meaning the cost of something depends on the secret deal one’s particular insurance provider has made with the hospital.

The Trump administration wants to change that equation as well. If a new proposal is finalized, that secrecy would be eliminated and hospitals would be required to disclose those negotiated rates.

The reaction? Hospitals are insisting “the burden is excessive and will undermine the ability of insurers to secure discounts for their customers,” writes American Enterprise Institute fellow James C. Capretta. “Lawsuits aimed at blocking the rule might be coming soon.”

The players themselves? The American Hospital Association (AHA), the Federation of American Hospitals (FAH), America’s Essential Hospitals, the Association of American Medical Colleges, and the Children’s Hospital Association issued a joint statement asserting that the proposed rule “is a misguided attempt to improve price transparency for patients because it fails to give them the information they need. Disclosing the negotiated rate between insurers and hospitals will not help patients make decisions about their care. Instead, this disclosure could harm patients by reducing patient access to care. This is the wrong approach to price transparency, and the administration should reverse course on this provision.”

The Federal Trade Commission’s Office of Policy Planning agrees. “Too much transparency can harm competition in any industry, including health care,” its “experts” insist.

This is ostensibly due to the fact that healthcare providers compete to be on an insurance company’s list of providers, and when those networks are selective, providers offer lower prices to be included on the list. “But when providers know who the other bidders are and what they have bid in the past, they may bid less aggressively, leading to higher overall prices,” the OPP adds.

That’s only half the gamesmanship. As Capretta explains in a separate column, hospital billing codes are hardly layman-friendly, “because the terminology used is not intended for a lay audience.” He further explains that while current regulations require hospitals to provide the prices of component parts of their charges, they are not required to post “all in prices” for procedures that involve several components, such as “fees for the surgery, the anesthesia, the operating room, the lab tests, imaging services, and follow-up care” — all of which “involve multiple billing codes.”

Perhaps the first salient question might be: Why does the relationship between the provider and the middleman consume virtually the entire discussion about effective healthcare, while the actual consumer seemingly remains an afterthought? Moreover — and more important — why should prices for the exact same services vary, sometimes substantially, for that same consumer?

If insurance is a necessary evil, it can only be because the amount of money necessary to maintain a viable system of healthcare providers exceeds the ability of consumers to pay for maintaining it as a whole. Does it?

The question brings to mind the spiraling costs of college. Since colleges know the taxpayer is the ultimate underwriter of all student-loan defaults, they can — and have — raised the costs of tuition with impunity, because there is no incentive for them to do otherwise. That’s bad enough, but at least the student themselves, strapped by loans that are seriously affecting their lives, are concerned. By contrast, many healthcare consumers who complain about the cost of insurance have little to no concern regarding the actual price of healthcare, especially if they have a low-deductible policy.

Thus, unlike the direct consumer-provider relationship of buying food, most people are forced to cope with current provider-middleman-consumer dynamic — and politicians in both parties have become equally accustomed to addressing the first two components of that dynamic, while healthcare costs for the actual consumer continue to skyrocket.

In other words, the moneyed interests talk, and the American public walks — or limps, or hobbles to the best of their coping abilities.

Capretta provides some viable solutions, such as the government requiring hospitals to provide all-in rates, and requiring insurers to provide reference-based insurance payments that would standardize reimbursement rates to various providers, incentivizing patients to choose lower-cost providers, especially if they could pocket the difference between the standardized rate and the actual price. He also notes that there are “small pockets” in the country (such as Amish and Mennonite communities) where the actual consumer-provider relationship exists, and cash payments for services are made directly to hospitals by these religious groups, who don’t buy insurance.

Yet one is left to wonder why this direct consumer-provider relationship is the exception, not the rule. Certainly there are some costs that are beyond the consumer’s ability to pay, such as long-term care for debilitating diseases like cancer, but if there’s a role for both government and insurance providers, it would seem logical to work downwards, from the catastrophic to the ordinary, rather than lumping everything together — and negotiating rates in secret.

Unfortunately, the term “vested interests” didn’t arise out of thin air. Public comments on the administration’s latest proposal are due by Sept. 27, and the AHA has alluded to the possibility it will litigate, insisting the rule “misses the mark, exceeds the administration’s legal authority and should be abandoned.”

Nonsense. Genuine price transparency — and the elimination of discounts for the same services — are critical first steps in rebuilding a consumer-provider relationship that has been distorted for far too long. Some call it patient-centered healthcare.

Common sense is more like it.

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#1533341 --- 08/26/19 08:20 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
A Two-Step Plan for Price Transparency in Health Care
By James C. Capretta
RealClearPolicy Contributor
August 08, 2019 Pexels
The Trump administration recently issued a second hospital price transparency rule that builds upon the rule released last year requiring hospitals to post their “chargemaster” rates, or list prices, online. The new proposed rule, if finalized, would go a step further by requiring hospitals, beginning in 2020, to disclose the rates they have negotiated directly with insurance plans. Today, these private-payer rates are considered confidential and proprietary by both the hospital and insurance industries and are not made available to the public.

The rule requiring disclosure of chargemaster rates, which went into effect in January, is making it easier to find list prices for thousands of hospital billing codes, but this information is not terribly useful for most consumers. Hospitals offer discounts off of their list prices to insurance plans, and most patients have insurance. Hospitals sometimes use chargemaster rates when billing patients without insurance, but that is rare. Even many uninsured patients end up getting discounts when they settle their bills.


Tying price data to insurance billing codes also makes the information less relevant for consumers because the terminology used is not intended for a lay audience. Moreover, it is not possible for a consumer to find the “all in” prices for services that involve multiple billing codes. For instance, when a patient needs a hip replacement, there will be fees for the surgery, the anesthesia, the operating room, the lab tests, imaging services, and follow-up care. The current regulation requires hospitals to disclose pricing for the component parts but not for the full package, which is what would be relevant for consumers.

The administration’s new regulation would force the disclosure of the discounted rates paid by insurers and also would promote more consumer-friendly price data for a list of 300 “shoppable services.” Hospitals would be required to identify services that are more amendable to consumer discretion (because they can be scheduled) by using accessible descriptions and identifying prices for ancillary services that usually accompany a primary charge.

While this is a step in the right direction, it does not go far enough. Promoting a stronger consumer role will require far more disruption of the status quo. In particular, two steps are necessary: a required pricing list established by the federal government of strictly standardized services, and universal reference-based payments by insurance plans for services on the required pricing list.

The administration’s new regulation introduces the concept of a required pricing list but only tentatively. Consumers will only price shop if they can make, with minimal effort, apples-to-apples comparisons among competing suppliers. The federal government can facilitate consumer price shopping by establishing a required pricing list comprised of standardized services and discrete clinical interventions that are amendable to comparison shopping. The prices posted by providers for services on the list would be considered walk-up prices available to all consumers, regardless of their insurance status.

The prices posted also would be “all in” rates. Consumers would get all relevant services associated with an intervention at the stated price. There should be no surprise bills. For services that involve multiple parties (such as those involving a hospital and more than one physician), providers should be required to participate in coordinated pricing, so that consumers only have one bill covering the full episode of care. This may require providers to establish contractual relationships with each other that otherwise might not exist.

The second step is a system of universal reference-based payments by insurance plans.

Reference-based payments are a proven cost control strategy. In a typical design, the insurer examines the prices charged by competing providers for a standardized intervention, such as hip replacement surgery, and sets the amount of insurance reimbursement based on those posted prices. The plan payment is fixed at the reference price and does not change based on the price charged by the patient’s selected provider. Patients thus have strong incentives to select lower-cost providers; otherwise, they must pay out of pocket for any price differential above the reference amounts.

Congress should pass legislation requiring insurers to establish reference-based payments for all services on the required pricing list. The reference amounts should be based on the average amounts paid by insurers when supplied by in-network providers. Consumers using out-of-network suppliers of services would get a reference-based payment from their insurers. If the payment from an insurer is less the price of the service, the consumer would pay the difference out of his or her pocket. If the payment exceeded the price of a service, the patient would get to keep 100 percent of the excess payment.

A system of reference-based payments is critical to price transparency because it makes consumers price-sensitive across a wide array of services. Hospitals and doctors will only assign competitive prices to their services if consumers have incentives to select lower-priced care.

The combination of a required pricing list and reference-based payments would pave the way for vigorous price competition in the medical services market. An entrepreneurial provider could capture market share by offering walk-up prices that are lower than the prices negotiated by competitors participating in insurance-driven networks. The prices offered by such entrepreneurs would be publicly available and easily compared to prices offered by their competitors because of the standardization of what is being priced.

Further, insurers would be obligated to make payments to these entrepreneurial providers at their prevailing in-network rates, which would also be publicly available information. Consumers would thus be armed with easily obtainable information that would allow them to pocket 100 percent of the savings from any provider able to offer pricing below the prevailing in-network rates paid by insurers.

If insurers, through their negotiation with providers, are today securing the lowest possible prices for the services patients need, then this initiative would not produce meaningful savings relative to the status quo. But there is no reason to believe that is the case. There is wide agreement that the provision of medical care in the US is inefficient and wasteful, and certainly much of that waste is occurring within the boundaries of insurance-negotiated in-network rates. A new initiative built on standardized pricing and reference-based payments would make it financially rewarding for providers of medical care to cut out unnecessary costs and reduce their prices accordingly.

Not all medical services are amenable to consumer price shopping, but a significant portion could be, under the right circumstances.

The government could support a more active role for consumers by forcing those providing medical care to patients to disclose pricing for all care that might reasonably be amenable to comparison shopping. Those prices, for standardized services, could then be incorporated into insurance plan design to give patients strong incentives to seek out low-cost, high-quality providers and thus reduce their out-of-pocket costs. Over time, the combination of clear pricing for standardized services and the use of those prices in a universal system of reference-based payments would finally allow consumers to become a powerful force for higher-value care.

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#1533356 --- 08/26/19 12:01 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
What a joke.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-...ions-2019-04-01

Trump says no Republican health-care plan until after 2020 elections

Published: Apr 1, 2019 11:36 p.m. ET

President says plan will be cheaper, ‘more usable’ than ACA, but offers no details


President Donald Trump indicated Monday night that a new Republican health-care plan that he has boasted about in recent days won’t be voted on until after the 2020 elections.

In a series of tweets, Trump claimed the GOP plan — which does not yet exist — “will be far less expensive & much more usable than ObamaCare,” and that a vote would be held “right after the Election when Republicans hold the Senate & win back the House.”

Trump also said “Republicans will always support Pre-Existing Conditions,” though the wording of that could be interpreted as falling short of a promise to protect those with pre-existing conditions.
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#1534855 --- 10/16/19 10:40 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Here is an earlier situation where I caught you totally wrong and you don't comment on it further. Pathetic.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534856 --- 10/16/19 10:51 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Here is an earlier situation where I caught you totally wrong and you don't comment on it further. Pathetic.


I said my peace. you turn every thread into a Trump rant. Of course, it's to be expected when you have your head so far up his behind you can't see anything else.

I can and have moved on, perhaps you can do so someday.

If you want to debate health options, I would be glad to do so. Otherwise let it go.

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#1534857 --- 10/16/19 11:17 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Here is an earlier situation where I caught you totally wrong and you don't comment on it further. Pathetic.
I said my peace. you turn every thread into a Trump rant. Of course, it's to be expected when you have your head so far up his behind you can't see anything else.
I can and have moved on, perhaps you can do so someday.
If you want to debate health options, I would be glad to do so. Otherwise let it go.
You said your peace? I think maybe you meant piece, not peace? Let it go? I am sure you would like that since what you said is a flat out lie. I see that today is Trumps 1,000th day as president. And he has over 13,000 lies to his credit. You will never catch up.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534858 --- 10/16/19 11:34 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Here is an earlier situation where I caught you totally wrong and you don't comment on it further. Pathetic.


I said my peace. you turn every thread into a Trump rant. Of course, it's to be expected when you have your head so far up his behind you can't see anything else.

I can and have moved on, perhaps you can do so someday.

If you want to debate health options, I would be glad to do so. Otherwise let it go.



ROTFLMAO, of all people, you have the audacity to speak of his criticizing Trump, what have you done in his defense? hint before you speak, take a look at your number of postings, secondly if your premise is to speak of health care, why did you not take the opportunity to engage us on it's advantages, especially seeing that some of you qualify for Medicare. Lastly, I'll be more more than happy to discuss healthcare with you son...otherwise quit lying and YOU MOVE ON grin
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#1534859 --- 10/16/19 12:06 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Why the moderators let you hi-jack every thread, I do not Know.
What? Every thread? LOL I had only posted on this single Great Debate thread for weeks until you came back and got Headline News going again! You tell the truth about as much as that guy in the White House.
How about a comment on this lie of yours?
Here is an earlier situation where I caught you totally wrong and you don't comment on it further. Pathetic.
I said my peace. you turn every thread into a Trump rant. Of course, it's to be expected when you have your head so far up his behind you can't see anything else.
I can and have moved on, perhaps you can do so someday.
If you want to debate health options, I would be glad to do so. Otherwise let it go.
You said your peace? I think maybe you meant piece, not peace? Let it go? I am sure you would like that since what you said is a flat out lie. I see that today is Trumps 1,000th day as president. And he has over 13,000 lies to his credit. You will never catch up.


Nope, meant peace. And just because you say something over and over again does not make it so. You continue to make every thread a rant about Trump. He lives in your brain, you live in his behind.

Again if you want to discuss health care, I would be glad to, if not it would seem you are done here.

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#1534861 --- 10/16/19 12:12 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Nope, meant peace. And just because you say something over and over again does not make it so. You continue to make every thread a rant about Trump. He lives in your brain, you live in his behind.

Again if you want to discuss health care, I would be glad to, if not it would seem you are done here.
Peace makes no sense? Have you noticed when Trump says something he repeats it over and over again several times? It is still a lie. He also likes to say believe me. Fat chance of that. As I pointed out I only talked about Trump on one thread until you came along and said I hijacked every thread. A total lie. Nothing is more important than getting rid of Trump ASAP. The future of the greatest nation the world has ever known is at stake.


Edited by Ben444 (10/16/19 12:14 PM)
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#1534866 --- 10/16/19 01:36 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
let it go.
You said I did something which it is obvious I did not do. That is called lying. Why should I let it go?
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534910 --- 10/17/19 11:57 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Let it go? I am sure you would like that since what you said is a flat out lie. I see that today is Trumps 1,000th day as president. And he has over 13,000 lies to his credit. You will never catch up.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534912 --- 10/17/19 12:05 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Some topics aren't worth the effort by virtue, if someone ask a question, the decent thing to do is respond, When they reply by means of cartoons and memes, one already know that they didn't win the debate. A ignorant person such a cwjga is like a ghost who fail to comprehend that they are dead thus is obligated to walk the universe stuck between two entities. They call them "Lost Souls"
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1534914 --- 10/17/19 12:13 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
My healthcare cost me approximately $400.00 dollars a month, if his is so much better, what's the problem submitting it's cost seeing that we all are anonymous? A huge liar is like Trump failing to submit his tax returns, if he pays so much let the public know but seeing that he's a tax cheat, the public can't be allow to see it's actuality. CWJGA fails to tell us his profession, lifestyle, marital status, kids, his education etc...why? END OF TOPIC,,,every thing moving forward on his part is a blatant lie. All else is multiple individuals with nothing else to do but DEBATE for the shear reasons of DEBATING
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1534919 --- 10/17/19 12:22 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Formermac
My healthcare cost me approximately $400.00 dollars a month,
The health insurance for me and my wife is $555 a month.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534920 --- 10/17/19 12:26 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
The $400.00 is for me alone, my wife receives her's through the school system
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1534921 --- 10/17/19 12:31 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Formermac
The $400.00 is for me alone, my wife receives her's through the school system
Sounds about right.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534922 --- 10/17/19 12:54 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
I'm hearing horror stories as to the cost of Medicare parts AB & D and am vastly approaching that dilemma. Seeing that the Republicans , namely Trump is spending his time doing nothing, we the Americans are faced with increases from food to automobiles.


https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tariffs-consumer-price-effect-20190514-story.html
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1534923 --- 10/17/19 01:07 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Even a Liberal think tank says Medicare for All Would Cost $34 Trillion Over Decade

https://www.urban.org/research/publicati...erage-and-costs



From Incremental to Comprehensive Health Reform: How Various Reform Options Compare on Coverage and Costs
Linda J. BlumbergJohn HolahanMatthew BuettgensAnuj GangopadhyayaBowen GarrettAdele ShartzerMichael SimpsonRobin WangMelissa M. FavreaultDiane ArnosOctober 16, 2019
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Abstract
Report:
From Incremental to Comprehensive Health Insurance Reform: How Various Reform Options Compare on Coverage and Costs

Brief:
Comparing Health Insurance Reform Options: From “Building on the ACA” to Single Payer

Blog Post:
Don’t Confuse Changes in Federal Health Spending with National Health Spending

Policymakers, including candidates in the 2020 presidential campaign and members of Congress, have proposed a variety of options to address the shortcomings of the current health care system. These range from improvements to the Affordable Care Act to robust single-payer reform.

There are numerous challenging trade-offs when choosing an approach to health care reform, including covering the uninsured, improving the affordability of health care, and raising the government funding required to implement them. The public and policymakers alike need more information about the potential effects of various health reform proposals.

This study, funded by the Commonwealth Fund, analyzes eight health care reforms and their potential effects on health insurance coverage and spending. Each of the analyzed reform proposals makes health insurance considerably more affordable by reducing people’s premiums and cost sharing. Some reforms also reduce US health care costs, and all require additional federal dollars.

Key findings:

Within the existing public-private health care system, near universal coverage and improved affordability could be achieved with moderate increases in national health spending. Under one of the plans modeled in the report, which proposes a mix of private and public health insurance, everyone in the US could be covered except for undocumented immigrants. The plan would enable workers to opt for subsidized nongroup coverage instead of their employer’s insurance plan. It would also improve the ACA’s subsidies to help people afford coverage, cover people in states that have not expanded Medicaid, require everyone to have insurance with an auto-enrollment backup, offer a public insurance option, and cap provider payment rates.

Coverage and costs:
This reform plan achieves universal coverage for people legally present in the US, covering 25.6 million people who would otherwise be uninsured. However, the plan leaves 6.6. million undocumented immigrants without coverage. National spending on health care would decrease modestly, by $22.6 billion or 0.6 percent, compared with current law in 2020. Federal government spending would increase by $122.1 billion in 2020, or $1.5 trillion over 10 years.
One single-payer approach would leave no one uninsured and largely eliminate consumers’ out-of-pocket medical costs but would require much greater federal spending to finance. The modeled “enhanced” single-payer system would cover everyone, including undocumented immigrants. The reform would include benefits more comprehensive than Medicare’s—including adult dental, vision, hearing, and long-term services and supports—with no premiums or cost sharing. All current forms of insurance for acute care would be eliminated, including private insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare, and everyone residing in the US would be covered by a new public insurance program. Providers would be paid rates closer to Medicare’s. Health spending by employers would be eliminated, and household and state health spending would decline considerably while federal spending would increase significantly.

Coverage and costs:
This reform option covers the entire US population. National spending on health care would grow by about $720 billion in 2020. Federal government spending would increase by $2.8 trillion in 2020, or $34.0 trillion over 10 years.
A second single-payer approach can be constructed with lower federal and system-wide costs. In addition to the enhanced single-payer plan above, researchers examined a single-payer “lite” plan that is similar to the enhanced version but includes cost sharing for out-of-pocket expenses based on income, adds fewer new covered benefits, and only covers legally residing US residents. Single-payer “lite” lowers total national health spending, decreasing health spending by households, employers, and state governments and increasing federal government spending by less than the enhanced single-payer reform.

Coverage and costs:
This reform plan achieves universal coverage for people legally present in the US, covering 25.6 million people who were uninsured. However, the plan leaves all 10.8 million undocumented immigrants without coverage (due to the elimination of private insurance). National spending on health care would decrease by $209.5 billion, or 6 percent, in 2020. Federal government spending would increase by $1.5 trillion in 2020, or by $17.6 trillion over 10 years. The analysis demonstrates that there is more than one effective approach to achieving universal health care coverage in the United States and highlights the trade-offs of different reform strategies.

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#1534925 --- 10/17/19 01:21 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Even a Liberal think tank says Medicare for All Would Cost $34 Trillion Over Decade

https://www.urban.org/research/publicati...erage-and-costs
I am not in favor of Medicare for All. I think it would be better if Medicare was available to all who have no health insurance from someplace else now. Therefore the only increase to health insurance cost would be to cover those with no health insurance now as all advanced countries do.
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#1534926 --- 10/17/19 01:22 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
let it go.
You said I did something which it is obvious I did not do. That is called lying. Why should I let it go?
.
_________________________
Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1534928 --- 10/17/19 01:59 PM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Within the existing public-private health care system, near universal coverage and improved affordability could be achieved with moderate increases in national health spending. Under one of the plans modeled in the report, which proposes a mix of private and public health insurance, everyone in the US could be covered except for undocumented immigrants. The plan would enable workers to opt for subsidized nongroup coverage instead of their employer’s insurance plan. It would also improve the ACA’s subsidies to help people afford coverage, cover people in states that have not expanded Medicaid, require everyone to have insurance with an auto-enrollment backup, offer a public insurance option, and cap provider payment rates.
What is wrong this approach? It sound easy to implement and relatively inexpensive.


Edited by Ben444 (10/17/19 02:00 PM)
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#1535011 --- 10/18/19 12:31 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Within the existing public-private health care system, near universal coverage and improved affordability could be achieved with moderate increases in national health spending. Under one of the plans modeled in the report, which proposes a mix of private and public health insurance, everyone in the US could be covered except for undocumented immigrants. The plan would enable workers to opt for subsidized nongroup coverage instead of their employer’s insurance plan. It would also improve the ACA’s subsidies to help people afford coverage, cover people in states that have not expanded Medicaid, require everyone to have insurance with an auto-enrollment backup, offer a public insurance option, and cap provider payment rates.
What is wrong this approach? It sound easy to implement and relatively inexpensive.


It does nothing to improve the affordability of Health insurance. In fact, it does just the opposite just as the ACA did.

We currently have a combination of private and public health coverage, just like most countries. WE have Medicaid that covers the poor and private plans for everyone else.

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#1535047 --- 10/20/19 11:22 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Within the existing public-private health care system, near universal coverage and improved affordability could be achieved with moderate increases in national health spending. Under one of the plans modeled in the report, which proposes a mix of private and public health insurance, everyone in the US could be covered except for undocumented immigrants. The plan would enable workers to opt for subsidized nongroup coverage instead of their employer’s insurance plan. It would also improve the ACA’s subsidies to help people afford coverage, cover people in states that have not expanded Medicaid, require everyone to have insurance with an auto-enrollment backup, offer a public insurance option, and cap provider payment rates.
What is wrong this approach? It sound easy to implement and relatively inexpensive.


It does nothing to improve the affordability of Health insurance. In fact, it does just the opposite just as the ACA did.

We currently have a combination of private and public health coverage, just like most countries. WE have Medicaid that covers the poor and private plans for everyone else.

D*mn, Cwiggy, You don't know the first thing about the resultant effects of The ACA, do you?

Not only have premiums dropped significantly for the targeted mid-income insured, but 20 million additional Americans are now covered. Vallue-based preventative health care has improved dramatically across the board, and forgive me for pointing out that the states that refused associated federal funds are also the states with the highest increases in both policy and deductibles rates.

Just sayin'.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1535051 --- 10/20/19 07:50 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Timbo]
Ben444 Offline
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Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
https://www.yahoo.com/news/republicans-still-no-clue-help-090011002.html

Republicans still have no clue how to help Americans that Obamacare left behind


People with serious health problems shouldn’t go without care or face financial ruin. Healthy individuals should have options in the individual health insurance market that are good, rather than lousy, deals.

If Republicans aren’t willing to propose, and publicly advocate, credible alternatives to accomplish both, the march toward government being the health care provider for all will steadily advance.
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Trump asked if he could pardon himself!

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#1535096 --- 10/22/19 07:09 AM Re: health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Wisconsin Is Putting Health Care Consumers Back in Driver’s Seat
State Sen. Dale Kooyenga|Posted: Oct 21, 2019 12:02 PM



One of the most important challenges facing lawmakers today at both the state and federal levels is the rising cost of health care. In the great debate over how to reduce costs while increasing access and quality, some politicians seem to believe that more government involvement is the ticket to accomplishing these policy goals.

I believe the opposite is true. In several ways, misguided government intervention is actually the cause of many of our problems, and the solution is to restore an arms-length relationship between government and the doctor-patient relationship.

In Wisconsin, I’ve been part of a group of legislators who understand the proper role of government is to stay in the background, setting sensible rules of the road and getting out of the way. We also understand that there is no silver bullet or thousand-page omnibus bill that will solve our health care problems, but instead that real progress will be accomplished one reform at a time.

Incremental, consumer-oriented reform is what we’re working on quietly but persistently in the Badger State.

One of those reforms drags government-run health care into the 21st century. All you have to do is pick up your smartphone to notice how fast technology is changing, but government programs have little incentive to keep pace.

That’s why I authored a bill to expand the use of telehealth in Wisconsin. The bill requires Medicaid to cover a variety of telehealth procedures in an effort to streamline and modernize the program. Telehealth, which can include examinations, consultations, and some procedures performed remotely using technology, is a big step toward increasing health care access by allowing people to receive medical care in their homes and finding efficiencies to reduce costs.

The same principle applies to dental care, where government policies impede the innovation of teledentistry. In some cases there isn’t a need to physically visit the dentist, like for a simple diagnosis. Technology could also allow a dentist to remotely examine records to determine if additional work is required. There’s no telling what will be possible in the future. I’m currently working on a teledentistry bill with the aim of removing government-imposed barriers to this innovation.

Government also gets in the way of progress through occupational licensure, which can be used to keep new business models from developing. One business model in dentistry that’s relatively new to America is the profession of dental therapy, a type of mid-level dental professional that’s often compared to a nurse practitioner in medicine.

Dental therapists are authorized to perform more procedures than a hygienist, thereby freeing the dentist to focus on providing more advanced care to a larger number patients, reducing wait times. A dental therapy bill circulating now will allow dental therapists to be licensed in Wisconsin, growing the dental workforce and increasing access to dental care.

Similarly, expanding the scope of practice of physician assistants, pharmacists and other health care providers can increase access and competition, thereby lowering prices. Where there is clear evidence that there is no additional risk to patients, relaxing restrictions on certain medical professionals is just common sense.

The mere threat of government interference can also discourage innovations like direct primary care, an arrangement where a patient pays a flat monthly fee directly to a primary care doctor. In exchange, the patient gets a set menu of services that covers the vast majority of a typical person’s health care needs with up-front, transparent pricing. These arrangements often cost less than insurance—usually less than $75 a month—and offer significantly lower out-of-pocket costs and facilitate an old-fashioned doctor-patient relationship.

A simple but important bill making its way through the Wisconsin legislature codifies into state law that DPC arrangements are not insurance—they’re actually an entirely different way of financing health care, therefore outside the grasp of insurance regulators. This bill will provide long-term certainty to enterprising doctors interested in venturing out and starting a direct primary care practice, but who may be nervous about the risk posed by possible future regulations.


Poor government policy impacts health care indirectly, too. For example, under current Wisconsin law, a person going through bankruptcy can have their health or medical savings accounts liquidated by a court. Putting someone’s access to health care in jeopardy simply because of a bankruptcy is bad policy.

Another example comes in the arena of cancer clinical trials, which are the best way to ascertain the effectiveness of a new, potentially life-saving treatment. Unfortunately, financial barriers often block people from taking part—about 20 percent of clinical trials fail due to lack of participation. Repealing outdated laws that forbid companies that conduct these trials from reimbursing participants for out-of-pocket costs incurred as a result of their participation removes one more government-imposed barrier to progress.

To be sure, none of these bills or others passed in Wisconsin in recent years is a magic wand that will fix a very broken health care system overnight. But as we saw in the years following the Affordable Care Act’s enactment, massive pieces of legislation that explode the role of government and insert politics into something as important as our health care are doomed to backfire.

There’s no shortage of good, free-market reforms that encourage innovation and competition by minimizing government’s role in health care. State and federal lawmakers can achieve the goals of reduced costs, increased access, and better quality by ditching expensive schemes like “Medicare for All” and getting to work on reforms that put the consumer behind the wheel and keeps the government in its place—the back seat.

Dale Kooyenga is a Republican state senator from Wisconsin’s 5th District, covering portions of the Milwaukee suburbs and the city of Milwaukee.

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#1535102 --- 10/22/19 11:05 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
let it go.
You said I did something which it is obvious I did not do. That is called lying. Why should I let it go?
A liar just like Trump.
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#1535103 --- 10/22/19 11:06 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/failure...tional-scholar/

Failure to immediately impeach Trump ‘puts the republic in grave danger’: constitutional scholar
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#1535110 --- 10/22/19 01:13 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
cwjga Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
You said I did something which it is obvious I did not do. That is called lying. Why should I let it go?



Originally Posted By: Ben444
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/failure...tional-scholar/

Failure to immediately impeach Trump ‘puts the republic in grave danger’: constitutional scholar


And then you go and do exactly what you are accused of. You must be a Dem.

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#1535112 --- 10/22/19 01:21 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Timbo Offline
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Premiums for popular Obamacare plans to drop 4% (up to double digit reductions in certain states) exactly as originally projected when signed into law:

Premiums for key plans sold on HealthCare.gov will drop by 4 percent on average next year, with several states seeing double-digit declines. This marks the second straight year that the so-called benchmark premium has dropped and is a further sign that the Obamacare insurance marketplaces are stabilizing

Story:
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/obamacare-premiums-drop-054262
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#1535132 --- 10/23/19 09:10 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
cwjga Offline
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Posted at Ben's request. wink



Ben can't articulate why he thinks it is not true smirk

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#1535137 --- 10/23/19 10:05 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: cwjga

Posted at Ben's request. wink

I asked that it posted here. Not because it is true which it is not but since cwjga thinks I deserve my own health care thread. hehe
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#1535493 --- 11/02/19 07:21 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with.


why did ben not go to canada when he had his most recent health event?

the wait times in canada too long?

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#1535494 --- 11/02/19 07:24 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ben444
I am not real concerned about what kind of health care system we end up with.


why did ben not go to canada when he had his most recent health event?

the lines in canada too long?
Huh? LOL Obviously I am not who you think I am. I have not had any recent health event.
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#1535495 --- 11/02/19 07:26 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
why did ben not go to canada when he had his most recent health event?
This sounds a like a conspiracy theory by a Trump supporter. grin
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#1535496 --- 11/02/19 07:27 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/foxs-br...o-defend-trump/

Fox’s Brit Hume gets schooled in conspiracy law after fumbling attempt to defend Trump
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#1535497 --- 11/02/19 07:29 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/were-do...iracy-theories/

We’re done with this conversation’: CNN host cuts off interview with Trump defender spewing conspiracy theories
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#1542872 --- 03/02/20 09:52 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: cwjga
Posted at Ben's request. wink



Ben can't articulate why he thinks it is not true smirk


Did Sanders ever say how much medicare for all would cost?
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#1542873 --- 03/03/20 01:44 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Posted at Ben's request. wink



Ben can't articulate why he thinks it is not true smirk


Did Sanders ever say how much medicare for all would cost?
I say Medicare for all would cost next to nothing because instead of paying for health insurance to a private company where the CEO makes millions a year you would pay for it through your taxes.

And you would not have situations like this if everyone had "comprehensive" health insurance. "I am announcing a new directive requiring NY health insurers to waive cost sharing associated with testing for coronavirus, including emergency room, urgent care and office visits," Cuomo tweeted. "We can't let cost be a barrier to access to COVID-19 testing for any New Yorker.
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#1542889 --- 03/03/20 05:34 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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A Florida man who returned from China felt sick. Instead of going to the drugstore to get over-the-counter flu medicine he did the responsible thing and sought medical attention. He tested negative but was sent a bill for $3,270, @NickKristof writes. https://nyti.ms/2Vx8ZwZ
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#1542890 --- 03/03/20 05:37 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
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In a perfect world , it all sounds great but sadly reality exist. The predominant problem exist with greedy doctors,pharmaceuticals and hospitals. Medicare and Medicaid are government run and look at the high premiums they force on American citizens. Eliminate the $10 per pill factor, hospitals generating a bill for 20K for a weeks stay and doctors sending you a bill of 400 dollars for one office visit and we may get cost down.
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#1542894 --- 03/03/20 05:52 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
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An unfortunate factors in healthcare, government has attempted to control cost through the intervention of "fair and reasonable" cost but health providers are faced with doctors dropping patients in any said network for obvious reasons, the provider isn't reimbursing them enough, which takes us back to square one, uninsured patients.
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#1542951 --- 03/03/20 03:28 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/expert-...g-it-yesterday/

Expert has to explain vaccines to Trump again — even after pharma companies spent hours explaining it yesterday
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#1542953 --- 03/03/20 05:38 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/gop-blo...vaccine-report/

GOP blocking coronavirus bill — because it limits how much drugmakers can charge for a vaccine: report

On Tuesday, Politico reported that GOP lawmakers are holding up a bipartisan emergency funding bill to provide treatment and research for coronavirus.

The main reason? They object to a provision that prevents drug manufacturers from overcharging the government for any vaccines or other treatment.
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#1545441 --- 04/01/20 06:43 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
treatment


Did you take your temperature today?
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#1545444 --- 04/01/20 06:46 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ben444
treatment


Did you take your temperature today?
I know that after answering your stupid questions my blood pressure has got to be off the charts.
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#1545515 --- 04/02/20 11:52 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
my blood pressure has got to be off the charts.


Think positive thoughts

Take a few deep breathes

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#1545517 --- 04/02/20 11:58 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: cwjga]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: cwjga
Posted at Ben's request. wink



Ben can't articulate why he thinks it is not true smirk



HMMMMM, this seems so outdated and irrelevant now. or is it?
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#1545519 --- 04/02/20 12:14 PM Re: health care thread [Re: Timbo]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Within the existing public-private health care system, near universal coverage and improved affordability could be achieved with moderate increases in national health spending. Under one of the plans modeled in the report, which proposes a mix of private and public health insurance, everyone in the US could be covered except for undocumented immigrants. The plan would enable workers to opt for subsidized nongroup coverage instead of their employer’s insurance plan. It would also improve the ACA’s subsidies to help people afford coverage, cover people in states that have not expanded Medicaid, require everyone to have insurance with an auto-enrollment backup, offer a public insurance option, and cap provider payment rates.
What is wrong this approach? It sound easy to implement and relatively inexpensive.


It does nothing to improve the affordability of Health insurance. In fact, it does just the opposite just as the ACA did.

We currently have a combination of private and public health coverage, just like most countries. WE have Medicaid that covers the poor and private plans for everyone else.

D*mn, Cwiggy, You don't know the first thing about the resultant effects of The ACA, do you?

Not only have premiums dropped significantly for the targeted mid-income insured, but 20 million additional Americans are now covered. Vallue-based preventative health care has improved dramatically across the board, and forgive me for pointing out that the states that refused associated federal funds are also the states with the highest increases in both policy and deductibles rates.

Just sayin'.




It's something to witness in due time the words coming back to haunt those that spew words lacking compassion...Funny how we are now in a juncture of universal healthcare, paid for by ours truly, the US government.
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#1545531 --- 04/02/20 01:46 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Quote:
Michigan Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s administration has requested an emergency supply of the drugs President Trump touted as having success treating patients with severe symptoms of the novel coronavirus, in a reversal from the state's directive to medical professionals last week to avoid the medication for this purpose.


Is she agreeing with the president?
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#1545534 --- 04/02/20 02:04 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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How about this premise son, maybe she is considering not only her personal views but what is best for her state's residents. While debating her views, prople are dying at a record pace.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/1/michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-changes-course-asks-/
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#1545542 --- 04/02/20 03:11 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Quote:
FDA authorizes first antibody-based test for COVID-19

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#1545543 --- 04/02/20 03:14 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/2/212044...nostic-covid-19

Before getting ahead of yourself and lie once again, this isn't to be a treatment as you've intended to imply
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#1545649 --- 04/03/20 02:34 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Formermac

Before getting ahead of yourself and lie once


It was a headline
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#1545650 --- 04/03/20 02:37 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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T
Originally Posted By: Formermac
How about this premise son, maybe she is considering not only her personal views but what is best for her state's residents.


So giving out medicine is benefiting her state residents?


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#1545670 --- 04/03/20 03:31 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/weeks-a...-covid-19-test/

It was just five weeks ago President Donald Trump insisted coronavirus is “going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”

Starting today, almost anyone who will be in the same room with President Donald Trump or Vice President Mike Pence will first have to be tested for coronavirus infection.

“Rapid COVID-19 tests are now being done on everyone who wants to be in room with Trump, starting today,” reports Jennifer Jacobs, the Senior White House reporter for Bloomberg News.
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#1545697 --- 04/04/20 09:29 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/nyc-does...lasio-says.html

A reporter ask Trump about his Son-Inlaw's comment in regard to stockpiled respirators, as usual, he angrily fired back that it was a nasty question. Ask about his April deadline to get the country back up and running....LOL he responded "I never said that"
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#1545701 --- 04/04/20 09:32 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
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278,000 cases of COVID-19
7159 deaths
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#1545705 --- 04/04/20 09:36 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/weeks-a...-covid-19-test/

It was just five weeks ago President Donald Trump insisted coronavirus is “going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”

Starting today, almost anyone who will be in the same room with President Donald Trump or Vice President Mike Pence will first have to be tested for coronavirus infection.

“Rapid COVID-19 tests are now being done on everyone who wants to be in room with Trump, starting today,” reports Jennifer Jacobs, the Senior White House reporter for Bloomberg News.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/facts-check-trump-coronavirus-briefing-april-3/index.html


The epitome of honesty and integrity


https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/trump-...ile-81616965860
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#1547925 --- 05/11/20 06:04 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
I


Did you take your temperature today?
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#1547937 --- 05/11/20 06:29 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ben444
I


Did you take your temperature today?
No but I wore my mask today which is more than Trump can say. What a terrible example he is.
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#1549098 --- 05/25/20 04:40 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/health-what-is-going-on-with-donald-trump-right-now/29029/

Something has gone very wrong with Donald Trump’s health today

Bill Palmer | 5:05 pm EDT May 25, 2020

When Donald Trump showed up severely late to today’s Memorial Day ceremony without explanation, it raised questions as to what was going on. Then once he finally did arrive, he had this weird posture and he couldn’t stop moving around – even during the parts of the ceremony where he was supposed to have been solemnly standing still.

So what’s going on here? Various observers have pointed out that Trump’s bizarre posture and complete inability to still himself are consistent with worsening senility. Of course none of us are doctors, but Trump won’t allow a legitimate doctor to get anywhere near him. In fact, his physical, mental, and cognitive health have visibly been in steady decline ever since he was abruptly taken to Walter Reed Medical Center several months ago, for reasons that his staff bent over backward to cover up.

By the time Donald Trump gave his prepared speech today, it wasn’t surprising to hear him misread “the hell they had to endure” as “they held they had to endure” before going on to inject the word “held” a few more times to try to cover up for the fact that he’d misspoken. This comes after the footage of him golfing yesterday revealed that he was struggling mightily just to swing a club, as if he’d largely lost control of his body.

Trump is so far gone, he can’t read words off a screen anymore. He can’t properly stand up or stand still anymore. And his handlers can’t even get him anywhere on time anymore. What is going on with this guy’s health? He appears to have entered mid stage dementia. And yes, with Trump having so many different psychoses all along, it’s difficult to pin down. The only thing we know for sure: whatever is wrong with Trump, it’s quickly getting worse.
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#1553488 --- 08/01/20 08:03 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ben444
I


Did you take your temperature today?
No but I wore my mask today


Do you not know how to take your own temperature?
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#1553493 --- 08/02/20 02:28 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13813
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ben444
I


Did you take your temperature today?
No but I wore my mask today


Do you not know how to take your own temperature?
I have heard of a rectal thermometer. grin
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#1553498 --- 08/02/20 05:12 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Whatever works for you...
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#1553505 --- 08/02/20 06:52 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Whatever works for you...
Stick it.
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#1553520 --- 08/02/20 03:26 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
Ben444 Offline
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https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/new-ant...ealthcare-plan/ New anti-Trump video mocks Trump for his 5-year-long lie about having a health care plan
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#1553521 --- 08/02/20 03:45 PM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Formermac]
Ben444 Offline
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Mrs. Krassenstein >>> BREAKING: Trump just released his healthcare plan like promised. The plan is to play golf while Americans die
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#1553530 --- Yesterday at 03:56 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ben444
Stick it.


You are so precious
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#1553540 --- Yesterday at 05:16 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: bluezone]
Ben444 Offline
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Three weeks ago Trump promised a big new health care plan in two weeks. Just another Trump lie.
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#1553577 --- Today at 08:34 AM Re: Bens health care thread [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
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Biden has been in office for decades

What has he done?
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