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#1531558 --- 06/12/19 02:29 PM Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
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Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own
By DAVID L. SHAW dshaw@fltimes.com

WATERLOO –– The mayors of two south Seneca County villages voiced strong opposition Tuesday to the current Seneca County Board of Supervisors’ plan to have a single, central wastewater treatment plant in Willard serve the south end of the county.

Ovid Mayor Leon Kelly and Lodi Mayor Kyle Barnhart said the centralized plan advocated by the county board would be far too costly for residents of their villages.

Instead, the two villages have hired Mary Anne Kowalski of Romulus as a consultant to explore the feasibility of building a treatment plant near Ovid to serve both villages.

Kelly urged the 14-member board, which uses a weighted vote system based on population, to vote against a centralization proposal put forth by engineers from Barton & Loguidice of Syracuse. He said the north end board members have the most weighted votes and can outvote the small south end supervisors.

“I am concerned about this proposed new plant to be built in Willard. It is very costly and it looks like B & L has started this train and we don’t know how to stop it. We need no votes from the north end,’’ Kelly said.

“So I beg and plead that when this comes up for a final vote, you vote no. It’s a nightmare. If you vote yes, it won’t cost your constituents anything, but our people in the south end will get a big bill,’’ Kelly said. “We are at your mercy,’’ he added.

“Put yourself in my shoes. We need a sewer plan that lowers the cost to the south end.’’

Barnhart, elected mayor in March, agreed with Kelly.

“We need something more affordable to the south end. This is a big project. Please reconsider it. We’re dealing with people with low per capita income,’’ he said.

“A decentralized plan makes more sense. It’s less expensive and serves the needs of the south end better,’’ Barnhart said. He said Lodi residents pay about $340 a year now for sewer services and under the centralized plan, figures are showing that could nearly double. He joined Kelly in urging the board to oppose the centralized plan.

They got some support from Romulus Supervisor David Kaiser and Varick Supervisor Bob Hayssen. “I don’t trust B & L. They are pushing this centralized plan,’’ Kaiser said.

Barnhart said Lodi is in Seneca County Sewer District No. 1 and should not have to subsidize a plant in Sewer District No. 2.

The topic will come up again at the June 25 Public Works Committee meeting.
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#1531562 --- 06/13/19 09:50 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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“I don’t trust B & L. They are pushing this centralized plan,’’ Kaiser said.

Barnhart said Lodi is in Seneca County Sewer District No. 1 and should not have to subsidize a plant in Sewer District No. 2."

I understand that Kaiser is just trying to create a job for himself as administrator of Sewer District No.1. Besides B&L just does what the board asks them to do. grin
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#1531563 --- 06/13/19 01:07 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
This is yet another scheme cooked up by the former CM.

It benefits Earl Martin, Flaum Management and the IDA, by bringing sewer to underserved areas of the Depot, at no cost to them. The costs would be paid by the residential users in Lodi, Ovid, Willard and Hamlet of Romulus.

Who, exactly, on the board do you think could have cooked up this scheme?


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
“I don’t trust B & L. They are pushing this centralized plan,’’ Kaiser said.

Barnhart said Lodi is in Seneca County Sewer District No. 1 and should not have to subsidize a plant in Sewer District No. 2."

I understand that Kaiser is just trying to create a job for himself as administrator of Sewer District No.1. Besides B&L just does what the board asks them to do. grin
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531564 --- 06/14/19 12:01 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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DUH, didn't the DEC demand action ? Wasn't there a condition that most of the cost be covered by obtaining a grant of ( I think it was ) $20 million ? crazy crazy crazy crazy
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#1531565 --- 06/14/19 12:38 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
DEC required correction of violations and compliance with new discharge limits. It DID NOT specify how the county would achieve that.

They certainly did not say build a new plant at Willard and transport sewage 14 miles through the Depot to help Earl Martin develop his land along 96 A and the airfield and Flaum with sewer lines on the west side of the warehouses, and send the bill to Lodi and Ovid and Willard.

And they didn't say, don't consult the State and get their $$$ commitment for Five Points and Willard....until the plan was submitted.

As to the grants, the maximum grant is $5 million or 25% of project costs, whichever is less. So, if the state kicks in $10 million as requested, that leaves a project cost of $15 million. The most the county can get from state grants is $3.75 million, leaving $11.25 million for the residential customers, many of whom are at the poverty level.

Anyone who thought the state would award a $20 million grant toward a $24 million project is pretty naive.

In fact, the presentations from B and L show grants of about $3.1 million, assuming a state up front contribution of $10 million.




Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
DUH, didn't the DEC demand action ? Wasn't there a condition that most of the cost be covered by obtaining a grant of ( I think it was ) $20 million ? crazy crazy crazy crazy


Edited by all seeing eye (06/14/19 12:40 AM)
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531568 --- 06/14/19 04:59 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
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lady the board was firm in that without at least $20 million in state or federal funding the project would be voted down. What you can NOT understand is you can't apply for grant money without a plan to be submitted with the grant application.
DUH
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#1531574 --- 06/14/19 09:57 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
My numbers came from the last presentation on the plan made by B and L. That removed Hillside.

Maybe you and the BOS should read it?


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
lady the board was firm in that without at least $20 million in state or federal funding the project would be voted down. What you can NOT understand is you can't apply for grant money without a plan to be submitted with the grant application.
DUH
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531576 --- 06/14/19 10:30 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
keep going back and forth from 2 years ago to today in your argument, it proves me right.
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I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

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#1531578 --- 06/14/19 01:14 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
keep going back and forth from 2 years ago to today in your argument, it proves me right.

DUH

_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531586 --- 06/14/19 09:07 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
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when did Hillside announce their closing ? When did the county board ask B&L to come up with a plan for the sewer districts. Answer YEARS apart. But you talk like B&L knew Hillside was going to close 5 years ago.
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#1531588 --- 06/14/19 10:49 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
The IDA surely knew the Hillside lease was up in 2020. And I am sure Hillside told IDA leadership they were not renewing.

I could be wrong, but I think the IDA went to the County Manager and told him that there was no way a new tenant would pay $48,000/Year for sewer treatment, plus high water costs for run down buildings. Hillside had fewer than 100 children, so that is a huge expense. A new tenant would be crazy to agree to it.

And the IDA would't want to pay the costs of the upgrades DEC required, which it would have to pay as the owner and only customer of the Hillside treatment plant.

Then, of course, there is Earl Martin, who owns the Depot, but there are almost no sewers in his 7000 acres. His White Deer Center had porta potties.

The solution: convert the Hillside plant to a pump station, run a sewer line 6.3 miles from the pump station to Sampson where it could connect to Sewer #1. ---- and hand the bill to the residential customers.

Economic development is a theme running through all the presentations by B and L.

If you look at the timetable from the first presentation, they appear to be about a year behind. I suspect the idea was to have the project started before the full BOS and public knew that Hillside would not renew the lease.

The RFP was issued summer 2017, B and L selected that fall. They proposed options to the BOS in May. The options were written so that the "best" option was consolidation, bringing new service to the Depot and preserving sewer treatment at Hillside.

Don't make it sound like the BOS thought this up and directed its implementation.
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531590 --- 06/15/19 01:21 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
OMG you sound just like a democrat, ya know the people who just pull numbers out of the sky. You won't know what's in it till you pass it. You want people to think that B&L is leading the board down the wrong path, but didn't B&L do BOTH PATHS and give the board a choice ? The plan you don't like was put together as a best long term choice and wouldn't be implemented unless a grant was received to pay for most of it.
Lady would you like to ride a bicycle or a BMW to California ? and will you get there.


Edited by scwoodchuck (06/15/19 01:22 AM)
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#1531592 --- 06/15/19 01:56 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
I am getting the numbers from the last B and L presentation on May 29, with Hillside plant and "conveyance" to Willard excluded.

Total cost of consolidation:

Plant: $18.3 million
Conveyance: $4.5 million

Total: $22.9 million

DOCCS contribution (requested): $10.3 million

State grant: $3.1 million

Net cost: $9.4 million

$9.4 million cost to users is not "most of it" especially since there is no commitment from the DOCCS yet.

Ask one of the supervisors who attended on May 29 meeting if you don't believe me.
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531594 --- 06/15/19 09:23 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
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IT IS STILL IN PROGRESS. nobody has started anything yet and I do believe they are still looking for grants.
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#1531597 --- 06/15/19 03:27 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
Since Cuomo became Governor, grant applications and awards are consolidated, so "looking" for multiple grants is eliminated and maximum grant awards are easily enforced.

As I said before, the maximum grant is $5 million or 25% of project costs, whichever is less. In this case, $3.4 million.

But we shall see.
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531601 --- 06/15/19 09:55 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
John Q Public Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 107
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
IT IS STILL IN PROGRESS. nobody has started anything yet and I do believe they are still looking for grants.


Another one of your house of cards Chuckie.

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#1531604 --- 06/15/19 11:44 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: John Q Public]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
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Originally Posted By: John Q Public
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
IT IS STILL IN PROGRESS. nobody has started anything yet and I do believe they are still looking for grants.


Another one of your house of cards Chuckie.
DUH, you're so smart who was awarded the contract and when did they start digging ? No RFPs have gone out. No contract awarded and nobody is digging.
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#1531605 --- 06/16/19 02:53 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
DUH, the fact that no one has broken ground doesn't mean the financial clock is not ticking. But all the money is going to the engineers to develop and revise the preliminary engineering report, revise it, run workshops and so forth. Almost $200,000 so far is my guess.

And almost none of the violations cited by DEC in February have been corrected.




Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: John Q Public
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
IT IS STILL IN PROGRESS. nobody has started anything yet and I do believe they are still looking for grants.


Another one of your house of cards Chuckie.
DUH, you're so smart who was awarded the contract and when did they start digging ? No RFPs have gone out. No contract awarded and nobody is digging.
_________________________
"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

Mark Twain

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#1531609 --- 06/16/19 11:35 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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of course the financial clock is ticking, the DEC fine for the violations is somewhere near $32,000 a day. That is what the fine was when the Village of Waterloo was in violation with their sewage treatment plant. But Teddy lied about that and the FLT wouldn't print the truth.


Edited by scwoodchuck (06/16/19 11:38 AM)
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#1531676 --- 06/23/19 11:54 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
Pusher Offline
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Registered: 01/05/12
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Loc: Seneca County
Has Ovid and Lodi hired an engineering firm yet or asked for bids on engineering yet? Or have they just wasted money on the all seeing eye for opinions? Have Ovid and Lodi signed an intermunicipal agreement for moving forawrd?

I dont think Ovid and Lodi have any money for the fix to the project, and grants are not going to cover the costs. You know who is the end users. Mostly due to the fact that no capital improvement funds are available. Lodi has been limping along for years by charging the bare minimum fees to the users and not having any funds allocated for repairs to their own sewer lines. Just slapping bandages over and over again on the force main at the town line pump station discharge side.

Not saying that building a new plant is the answer but the DEC will not wait for ever as the county and municipalities have been accustomed to in the past. Need to get off the pot as they say.

So quit fighting and offer solutions. Don't say what should not be done, say what can be done. Get a move on tick tock, tick tock...



Edited by Pusher (06/23/19 11:55 PM)

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#1531678 --- 06/24/19 01:14 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: Pusher]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2507
Loc: Seneca Lake
Actually, the two villages only became aware of the extent and cost of the project recently. And the impact on their residents is the most significant.

Little or no outreach was made by the County to the Village authorities or to their constituents to "market" the idea.

If you look at the "stakeholder" lists, the TOWNS were included, not the Village governments. The Villages own the sewer collection systems and are served by the County District. The Towns have no horse in the race, although, clearly Town residents are impacted.

The County ignored the Villages, even though the poverty levels in the Villages of Ovid, Lodi and, possibly, Interlaken, gave the county project higher scores with better chances of grants and loans.

They, like you, assumed that the Villages had no other options, and that when the BOS gave final approval, they would just go along.

No one expected the villages to start asking questions, especially about whether the project is sustainable financially. Can the customers pay for it going forward?

The answer is no.

In fact, the closure of Hillside is a dandy example. The Hillside plant costs at least $100,000/year to run. Hillside has been paying $12,000/quarter and $48,000/year (to serve 79 students, but I digress). Is the IDA going to make up the loss? If the plant remains open, who is going to pay to run it? So the County is going to close the plant.....but what is the IDA going to do with the buildings that now have no sewage treatment. And to lease or sell the buildings, the IDA will need to find treatment services.

The same types of questions face the Villages. The best example is the Eagle Hotel. That is proposed to pay the equivalent rate of 15 houses, but it is closed. Who is going to make up those payments, going forward.

Now that the Villages are aware of the impact of the proposal on their residents, they are investigating their options. Their "consultant" is charging $1.00 for the year, and no mileage or expenses, so move on with that.

The Villages actually have some good options. They can go to USDA Rural Development for feasibility studies and grants and loans....and there is a lot more money available to them than the county:

Billions available for rural water and wastewater projects
Contact: Jay Fletcher

WASHINGTON, D.C., , July 30, 2018 — Assistant to the Secretary for Rural Development Anne Hazlett today announced a historic commitment by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to upgrade and rebuild rural water infrastructure.

“USDA is committed to being a strong partner to rural communities in building their futures,” Hazlett said. “All people – regardless of their zip code – need modern, reliable infrastructure to thrive, and we have found that when we address this need, many other challenges in rural places become much more manageable.”

Eligible rural communities and water districts can apply online for funding to maintain, modernize or build water and wastewater systems. They can visit the interactive RD Apply tool, or they can apply through one of USDA Rural Development’s state or field offices.

USDA is providing the funding through the Water and Waste Disposal Loan and Grant program. It can be used to finance drinking water, stormwater drainage and waste disposal systems for rural communities with 10,000 or fewer residents.

Below are a few examples of USDA’s latest investment of $164 million for 54 projects including a project in Alto, NM.

This Rural Development investment will be used to pay for a cost overrun to construct a water tank owned and operated by the Alto North Water Cooperative. The project includes the construction of a 60,000-gallon water tank and the demolition of the old water tank. Installing a new larger water tank is more feasible than repairing the existing one. The new, 60-foot-tall water tank will be located at the reservoir and will deliver better service by providing 35 pounds per square inch (PSI) of water pressure to customers in the upper portion of the service area. Customers in the lower zone will see 60 PSI, which meets the state's minimum required pressure. Having 60,000 gallons of water storage also meets state fire flow requirements of 500 gallons per minute for two hours. The Alto North Water Cooperative is 5.3 miles north of Ruidoso, N.M., at an elevation of 7,300 feet. The Alto North Water Cooperative water system serves five businesses and 45 residences.

In FY 2018, Congress provided a historic level of funding for water and wastewater infrastructure. The 2018 Omnibus spending bill includes $5.2 billion for USDA loans and grants, up from $1.2 billion in FY 2017. The bill also directs Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue to make investments in rural communities with the greatest infrastructure needs.

In April 2017, President Donald J. Trump established the Interagency Task Force on Agriculture and Rural Prosperity to identify legislative, regulatory and policy changes that could promote agriculture and prosperity in rural communities. In January 2018, Secretary Perdue presented the Task Force’s findings to President Trump. These findings included 31 recommendations to align the federal government with state, local and tribal governments to take advantage of opportunities that exist in rural America. Increasing investments in rural infrastructure is a key recommendation of the task force.

To view the report in its entirety, please view the Report to the President of the United States from the Task Force on Agriculture and Rural Prosperity (PDF, 5.4 MB). In addition, to view the categories of the recommendations, please view the Rural Prosperity infographic (PDF, 190 KB).

USDA Rural Development provides loans and grants to help expand economic opportunities and create jobs in rural areas. This assistance supports infrastructure improvements; business development; housing; community services such as schools, public safety and health care; and high-speed internet access in rural areas. For more information, visit www.rd.usda.gov.




Edited by all seeing eye (06/24/19 01:16 AM)
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"No amount of evidence will ever convince an idiot."

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#1531684 --- 06/24/19 01:53 PM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: all seeing eye]
Pravda1984 Offline
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Registered: 08/31/17
Posts: 20
Loc: Fingerlakes
Well, All Seeing Eye - you seem to pretty well informed, which is good.

What are the qualifications for the consultant that the Villages say they have hired?


Edited by Pravda1984 (06/24/19 01:54 PM)

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#1531744 --- 06/28/19 02:09 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: Pravda1984]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 2365
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Well as always the facts are a bit TWISTED. But don't sweat it, the DEC will decide what will happen like they do with every sewer project. ( Waterloo, Geneva, Penn Yan and Watkins Glenn are examples )
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#1556832 --- 12/15/20 02:30 AM Re: Ovid, Lodi villages oppose central sewer plant, may go on own [Re: scwoodchuck]
John Q Public Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 107
Loc: NY
Where did you go Chuck?

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