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#1445643 --- 04/24/14 09:09 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
Affirmative action


Old Chinese saying: The beginning of wisdom is calling things by their proper names. So:

affirmative racism.

John Hinderaker's comment:

"The majority held that a state can indeed ban discrimination on the basis of race. Whew! Some of us thought that issue was settled by the 14th Amendment. But two justices, Ginsburg and Sotomayor, dissented: they would have held that states are required to engage in race discrimination, no matter how much a state’s citizens may protest in favor of equal treatment."

I just mentioned, on the school tax thread in SC, that the school taxes on a $169K in South Seneca would be $2717 next year, in SF they'd be $3923 this year, and in Tennessee, ZERO. Total tax on a $160k house in your neighborhood: $684. It probably will insist that they're higher in Tn. You're right; it can't be fixed.
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#1445709 --- 04/25/14 04:30 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Affirmative action
Old Chinese saying: The beginning of wisdom is calling things by their proper names. So: affirmative racism.

John Hinderaker's comment:

"The majority held that a state can indeed ban discrimination on the basis of race. Whew! Some of us thought that issue was settled by the 14th Amendment. But two justices, Ginsburg and Sotomayor, dissented: they would have held that states are required to engage in race discrimination, no matter how much a state’s citizens may protest in favor of equal treatment."

Originally Posted By: Timbo
Oh, please, look who's hijacking the discussion into an argument about Affirmative Action.

The fact is, these guys are simply wrong in their specific assumptions about the distinctions between race, discrimination and the law, and the way(s) that they relate to each other in legal terms.

The courts established this precedent starting at least after the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation and have continued to rule accordingly again and again. The Supreme Court has basically said (on multiple occasions) that a state may use (for instance) affirmative action programs if it chooses to do so, but is not required to use them.

What he said.

Nonsensical speculation (and highly unlikely speculation, at that).

FYI: That's not accurate. Asked by a disciple how to rule a state properly, Confucius replies that it begins with rectifying the names:
“If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be conducted successfully. When affairs cannot be conducted successfully, propriety will not flourish. When propriety does not flourish, punishments will not be properly meted out. When punishments are not properly meted out, the people will not know how to conduct themselves.” -The Analects. (circa 475 B.C.)

The Proverb you reference actually goes:
"The Beginning of Wisdom is to realize that a name is simply a label and does nothing to express form or function. The beginning of True Wisdom is to identify the Quality of a Thing."

The expression evolved as a loose paraphrase of Confucius' comment above.
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#1445774 --- 04/26/14 09:15 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Let's hear in your own words, a little about this "real world" that you seem to consider yourself to be enlightened about. whistle


you sided with the british and lost
have the british been 'cry me a river' for the past 200 years?
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#1445805 --- 04/26/14 01:19 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY

Has anyone recently invaded England and denied them the right to self determination?
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#1445813 --- 04/26/14 02:01 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
is the USA offering self determination for the british on US soil today?
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#1445830 --- 04/26/14 07:26 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY

Are Native Americans offering it for European settlers in the Americas?
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#1445845 --- 04/27/14 07:38 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
the USA defeated the british
read your posts
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#1445858 --- 04/27/14 01:42 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
the USA defeated the british
read your posts

Then be sure to be sure to keep your mouth shut when somebody kicks your @ss, rapes your daughter, steals your house and puts you out on the street.

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#1445868 --- 04/27/14 02:55 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
the USA defeated the british
read your posts

Then be sure to be sure to keep your mouth shut when somebody kicks your @ss, rapes your daughter, steals your house and puts you out on the street.

This was hundreds of years ago. What do you think we should do about it now? mmmmm? You steadfastly refuse to tell us what you think we should do about it now. Make note of that bluezone. He has no answer. He just blabbers on and on without offering any solution. Anyone can do that.


Edited by kyle585 (04/27/14 03:09 PM)
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#1445885 --- 04/27/14 11:03 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY

What's the statute of limitations on Genocide ? ? ?
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#1445892 --- 04/28/14 03:42 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
What's the statute of limitations on Genocide ? ? ?
1. In what year or years did this Genocide take place?
2. Who committed this Genocide?
3. If we round up the people who committed this Genocide to bring them to justice, what should their punishment be?

(Keep in mind that some of them "who you think" were Committers of Genocide hundreds of year before the term came into existence formed the greatest nation the world has ever known and you proudly served in the military of that nation. I believe that makes you an Unindicted Coconspirator.)


http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007043

The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group. Human rights, as laid out in the US Bill of Rights or the 1948 United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, concern the rights of individuals.

In 1944, a Polish-Jewish lawyer named Raphael Lemkin (1900-1959) sought to describe Nazi policies of systematic murder, including the destruction of the European Jews. He formed the word "genocide" by combining geno-, from the Greek word for race or tribe, with -cide, derived from the Latin word for killing. In proposing this new term, Lemkin had in mind "a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves." The next year, the International Military Tribunal held at Nuremberg, Germany, charged top Nazis with "crimes against humanity." The word “genocide” was included in the indictment, but as a descriptive, not legal, term.

THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE

On December 9, 1948, in the shadow of the Holocaust and in no small part due to the tireless efforts of Lemkin himself, the United Nations approved the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. This convention establishes "genocide” as an international crime, which signatory nations “undertake to prevent and punish.” It defines genocide as:

[G]enocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

While many cases of group-targeted violence have occurred throughout history and even since the Convention came into effect, the legal and international development of the term is concentrated into two distinct historical periods: the time from the coining of the term until its acceptance as international law (1944-1948) and the time of its activation with the establishment of international criminal tribunals to prosecute the crime of genocide (1991-1998). Preventing genocide, the other major obligation of the convention, remains a challenge that nations and individuals continue to face.


Edited by kyle585 (04/28/14 04:48 AM)
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#1445908 --- 04/28/14 10:44 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY

Yep!

Fits it to a tee.
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#1445910 --- 04/28/14 11:22 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Yep!

Fits it to a tee.
What fits? Genocide as only been around since 1944. Has the USA committed genocide against Native Americans since that time? You obviously blew your comment on this one. LOL
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#1445914 --- 04/28/14 12:02 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Yep!

Fits it to a tee.
What fits? Genocide [h]as only been around since 1944. Has the USA committed genocide against Native Americans since that time? You obviously blew your comment on this one. LOL

W H A T ?
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#1445918 --- 04/28/14 12:56 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4981
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Yep!

Fits it to a tee.
What fits? Genocide [h]as only been around since 1944. Has the USA committed genocide against Native Americans since that time? You obviously blew your comment on this one. LOL

W H A T ?

Wow.
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#1445922 --- 04/28/14 01:38 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Yep!

Fits it to a tee.
What fits? Genocide [h]as only been around since 1944. Has the USA committed genocide against Native Americans since that time? You obviously blew your comment on this one. LOL

W H A T ?
Can you read? You need to get a better grip on your vocabulary.
Quote:
The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944.


Edited by kyle585 (04/28/14 01:40 PM)
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#1445926 --- 04/28/14 01:53 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Teonan]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
THE PEACE LOVING INDIANS ARE AT WAR! WITH OTHER INDIANS IN THEIR SAME TRIBE!

****************************************************

Confrontations between opposing factions of the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York on Monday morning resulted in law enforcement authorities being called to tribe-owned Union Springs and Seneca Falls sites.

The situation unfolded this morning when a faction within the tribe that claims it is in charge moved in to take over sites from the existing leadership.

In Union Springs, the gas station/convenience store are now locked down and a Cayuga County Sheriff's Office deputy will stand guard at the site until the two sides can work out an agreement, Sheriff David Gould said.

The situation is still unfolding in Seneca Falls, according to Joseph Heath, an attorney who represents a group within the nation called the Unity Council.

The Unity Council voted several years ago to remove the tribe's federal representative, Clint Halftown, from his leadership post, but Halftown challenged the legality of that decision with the federal agency that oversees Indian affairs. In January, the federal Interior Board of Indian Affairs sided with Halftown.

Believing that decision to be in violation of the nation's own law, the Unity Council decided to attempt to seize control of the nation's businesses on Monday, Heath said.

The Union Springs scene is now secured, with the sides agreeing to have the building locked until an agreement could be reached. Gould said he was contacted by the Unity Council Sunday night about their intentions to move in with paperwork that they say gives them control. The sheriff arranged a meeting with leaders of both sides at 6 a.m. Monday, and it appeared they had come to an understanding. About an hour later, though, fighting broke out and 911 was contacted. Heath said one member of the Unity Council was taken to the hospital with an injury.

Sheriff's deputies restored order to the scene and the lockdown has been in place since then. Gould said a nation-owned car wash and the electronic bingo hall remain open.

Heath said the scene in Seneca Falls is less stable at this point, with Unity Council members taking over an office building.

Representatives of Halftown were not immediately available for comment.


Edited by kyle585 (04/28/14 02:17 PM)
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#1445928 --- 04/28/14 02:08 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4981
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Yep!

Fits it to a tee.
What fits? Genocide [h]as only been around since 1944. Has the USA committed genocide against Native Americans since that time? You obviously blew your comment on this one. LOL

W H A T ?
Can you read? You need to get a better grip on your vocabulary.
Quote:
The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944.

Are you suggesting acts of genocide are defined by or limited to a particular time period?
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#1445931 --- 04/28/14 02:13 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Teonan]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Yep! Fits it to a tee.
What fits? Genocide [h]as only been around since 1944. Has the USA committed genocide against Native Americans since that time? You obviously blew your comment on this one.
W H A T ?
Can you read? You need to get a better grip on your vocabulary.
Quote:
The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944.
Are you suggesting acts of genocide are defined by or limited to a particular time period?
Duh. That is what the article said did it not?


Edited by kyle585 (04/28/14 02:15 PM)
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#1445933 --- 04/28/14 02:26 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: kyle585
The Union Springs scene is now secured, with the sides agreeing to have the building locked until an agreement could be reached. Gould said he was contacted by the Unity Council Sunday night about their intentions to move in with paperwork that they say gives them control. The sheriff arranged a meeting with leaders of both sides at 6 a.m. Monday, and it appeared they had come to an understanding. About an hour later, though, fighting broke out and 911 was contacted. Heath said one member of the Unity Council was taken to the hospital with an injury.
This so-called sovereign nation cannot even keep the peace amongst its few members without outside help. How sad is that?
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