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#1518000 --- 07/28/18 07:22 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
crazy you seem to be talking in circles.
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#1518004 --- 07/28/18 08:18 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
Chuck, sorry if you can't follow my examples of DEC working with to get corrective action, that the community can afford. You thought it strange that I was not concerned about DEC. Apparently, those who are concerned don't know how they operate.


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
crazy you seem to be talking in circles.
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#1518066 --- 07/30/18 08:09 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Chuck, sorry if you can't follow my examples of DEC working with to get corrective action, that the community can afford. You thought it strange that I was not concerned about DEC. Apparently, those who are concerned don't know how they operate.


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
crazy you seem to be talking in circles.
so let me get this straight. The DEC says you need to fix something and because you know the people can't afford a rate increase you do nothing. Then the DEC steps in and says fix it or else. Now I got it crazy
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#1518068 --- 07/30/18 08:26 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
What I am saying is that DEC would require fixing the plants and adding additional technology to meet lower discharge frequencies, at a cost of about $7 million.

people much not like the fee increase, but it would be easy to explain and justify.

DEC would NOT require a $25,000,000 (plus engineer fees) to consolidate the districts, most of which had absolutely nothing to do with complying with law.

I understand the plants need to be fixed. But there is nothing to require a sewer line to serve Earl Martin"s plans for the Depot.


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Chuck, sorry if you can't follow my examples of DEC working with to get corrective action, that the community can afford. You thought it strange that I was not concerned about DEC. Apparently, those who are concerned don't know how they operate.


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
crazy you seem to be talking in circles.
so let me get this straight. The DEC says you need to fix something and because you know the people can't afford a rate increase you do nothing. Then the DEC steps in and says fix it or else. Now I got it crazy
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#1518076 --- 07/30/18 11:01 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here is the explanation from the Report on the need to extend the district to accommodate "Future Development"

2.2.6 Anticipated Development

Future development within the Sewer Districts is anticipated to occur on the former Depot property. Approximately 7,000 acres of the Depot was sold to a local developer in 2017 who is currently developing plans to expand operations onto the Depot property. The proposed manufacturing facility, Seneca Ironworks, will provide manufacturing of agricultural equipment. Following expansion, it is anticipated this facility will employ 300 people and generate approximately
200,000 gallons per month (average of ~6,700 gpd) of pre-treated industrial wastewater. Additionally, the future development will include construction of an estimated 30 homes as well as plans for potential commercial development along the interior County Road 135. The additional development potential is largely dependent upon future access to sanitary sewer conveyances.

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#1518091 --- 07/30/18 01:14 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
Thank you for reposting. It gives me a chance to emphasize:

Economic development would NOT be required by DEC. DEC has jurisdiction over the existing plants and systems.

The Sewer line running from Hillside to Sampson only benefits the "local developer," Earl Martin.

The people in the Hamlets of Romulus and Willard, the Villages of Ovid, Lodi, and Interlaken, and the state facilities at Five Points, Willard and Sampson State Park should not be paying for it.

The "Pre-treated industrial wastewater," much of which will be generated from a planned galvanization process, presents additional problems. This discharge will place additional stress on which ever plant it discharges into. Major pollutants of Galvanization wastewater are cyanide, chromium, acid, alkali and alkali salt, and heavy metals, including copper and zinc.




Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here is the explanation from the Report on the need to extend the district to accommodate "Future Development"

2.2.6 Anticipated Development

Future development within the Sewer Districts is anticipated to occur on the former Depot property. Approximately 7,000 acres of the Depot was sold to a local developer in 2017 who is currently developing plans to expand operations onto the Depot property. The proposed manufacturing facility, Seneca Ironworks, will provide manufacturing of agricultural equipment. Following expansion, it is anticipated this facility will employ 300 people and generate approximately
200,000 gallons per month (average of ~6,700 gpd) of pre-treated industrial wastewater. Additionally, the future development will include construction of an estimated 30 homes as well as plans for potential commercial development along the interior County Road 135. The additional development potential is largely dependent upon future access to sanitary sewer conveyances.

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#1518093 --- 07/30/18 01:41 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1630
Loc: New York, Seneca
So when are you going to explain that the $25 million dollar plan, that you are so opposed to, will not be implemented unless the county is successful in getting a grant to pay for it. That is how grants work you know. You first come up with a project, develop a detailed plan and submit it with your application. Intentional or not, you left that part out, but it is probably intentional.
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#1518098 --- 07/30/18 02:09 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
I did say, on July 24, that the cost estimates are based on receiving a $5,000,000 grant and 0% financing.

I haven't seen or heard anything that says if the county doesn't get the grant, the $25,000,000 plan will not proceed. Which is pretty silly position to take, as the plants will still need to be repaired and no planning or engineering will be done to fix them until the county finds out about the grants in 2020.

Here's the timetable. Please note all the activities the Districts will need to pay the engineering firm from now until 2019 when the grant applications actually get filed:


Project Schedule Milestone

Submit PER to NYSDEC in accordance with NOV conditions August 2018
Submit Final PER to EFC for CWSRF Project Listing, Draft/Final IUP September 2018
Environmental Review (SEQR/SERP) Fall 2018
Map & Plans - 202b Improvements Process Fall/Winter 2018
Agreement Negotiations/Revisions/Execution Winter/Spring 2019
Bond Resolution(s) Spring 2019
Submit CWSRF funding application to NYSEFC Spring 2019
Submit WIIA Grant Application June 2019
Submit 2019 CFA Application (WQIP, ESD) July 2019

Close on Short Term Financing (CWSRF) Fall 2019
Final Design and Permitting Winter/Spring 2019/20
Submit Project Plans & Specifications for Review and Approval Spring 2020
Permits and Approvals Spring/Summer 2020
Project Letting/Bidding Phase Fall 2020
Award Bids Winter 2020
Construction Start Spring 2021

Do you really expect to turn this process around 2 years from now when they find out about the grant.

Frankly, even with the grant, it is unaffordable for most of the residential customers affected:

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye


There was some discussion about the resolution. The total project cost $25,000,000. The engineers have no idea if the State of New York, which owns the Five Point plant and gets sewage treatment for Willard DTC will move forward, but the engineers asked the State to contribute to the project. Not surprisingly they haven't received an answer. The projected costs depend on getting a $5,000,000 grant.

The cost per year for Sewer #1 is estimated at $414/EDU/year (up from $180)

For Sewer #2 the estimate is $637/EDU/year (up from $200)


The project was approved by the BOS, but the engineers say the details can be tweaked.


Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
So when are you going to explain that the $25 million dollar plan, that you are so opposed to, will not be implemented unless the county is successful in getting a grant to pay for it. That is how grants work you know. You first come up with a project, develop a detailed plan and submit it with your application. Intentional or not, you left that part out, but it is probably intentional.
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#1518100 --- 07/30/18 02:14 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
When is someone going to explain the $25 million dollar plan to the residents who are going to have to pay for it?


Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
So when are you going to explain that the $25 million dollar plan, that you are so opposed to, will not be implemented unless the county is successful in getting a grant to pay for it. That is how grants work you know. You first come up with a project, develop a detailed plan and submit it with your application. Intentional or not, you left that part out, but it is probably intentional.
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#1518168 --- 07/31/18 05:37 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
DR. D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 6467
Loc: Waterloo/Seneca Falls/Junius/T...
Still asking, Why does this keep happening? What is causing 3 blow offs of sewage into the canal in just over a month.

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#1518184 --- 07/31/18 07:54 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: DR. D]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Do you still have all your teeth ? Will you some day need a hip replacement ? Hair getting grey ? ED ?
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#1518229 --- 07/31/18 06:30 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
DR. D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 6467
Loc: Waterloo/Seneca Falls/Junius/T...
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Do you still have all your teeth ? Will you some day need a hip replacement ? Hair getting grey ? ED ?


I posted what you replied to in the wrong topic my bad, was meant for the topic dealing with the sewage leak in SF, just pointing that out there. So your post makes about as much sense as mine.

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#1518239 --- 08/01/18 08:10 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: DR. D]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
So your mistake is NOW MY MISTAKE ! that may work where you come from so now you have 3 bads. Nobody would have noticed until you pointed it out then you make it my mistake. crazy
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#1518312 --- 08/02/18 08:02 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
When is someone going to explain the $25 million dollar plan to the residents who are going to have to pay for it?


Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
So when are you going to explain that the $25 million dollar plan, that you are so opposed to, will not be implemented unless the county is successful in getting a grant to pay for it. That is how grants work you know. You first come up with a project, develop a detailed plan and submit it with your application. Intentional or not, you left that part out, but it is probably intentional.
No answer ? Well let me explain. First you are way off on your numbers. The cost to repair the 3 sewage plants is estimated at 18.6 million not 7 million. The 25 million plan will never get past the board unless a grant of at least 20 million is received. Sorry to BURST YOUR BUBBLE
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#1518316 --- 08/02/18 10:29 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
It already got pat the board.

The engineers are predicting $5,000,000 in grants, not $20,000,000.

The costs you are quoting are for upgrading the Willard plant to handle all the sewage and converting the other two plants to be pump stations, not treatment facilities.

Where are the statements from the supervisors and/or county manager saying that $20 million in grants will be required to move the project forward?

I'd like to believe you, but don't think you have the power to commit the County.


Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
When is someone going to explain the $25 million dollar plan to the residents who are going to have to pay for it?


Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
So when are you going to explain that the $25 million dollar plan, that you are so opposed to, will not be implemented unless the county is successful in getting a grant to pay for it. That is how grants work you know. You first come up with a project, develop a detailed plan and submit it with your application. Intentional or not, you left that part out, but it is probably intentional.
No answer ? Well let me explain. First you are way off on your numbers. The cost to repair the 3 sewage plants is estimated at 18.6 million not 7 million. The 25 million plan will never get past the board unless a grant of at least 20 million is received. Sorry to BURST YOUR BUBBLE
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#1518320 --- 08/02/18 11:21 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
I can see why the county didn't renew your contract laugh


Edited by scwoodchuck (08/02/18 11:22 AM)
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#1518323 --- 08/02/18 11:29 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 11113
Loc: Above ground
I can't comprehend as to why anyone would embarrass themselves by placing opinion over factual data but here you are. I have a friend that mimics all seeing's information or are you attempting to use opinion to deflect fact? Typically factual rebuttals are more effective than ad hominem , your usual tactic, attacking one's character instead of addressing opinion versus fact.

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#1518379 --- 08/02/18 09:03 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Formermac]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1921
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
The facts will be made known in time, actually the facts have already been made known to anyone who was at the last committee meeting. All it took was a phone call to someone who gave me an honest answer. Facts and honesty are not easy to find on the internet or in the newspaper.
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#1518380 --- 08/02/18 09:45 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Formermac]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
Actually, I went back to the complete PER to look at the cost of repairing and upgrading the plants.

What the engineering firm costed out for "renovate existing plant," was a complete replacement of the treatment facility.

So, for example, the "renovation" of the Hillside plant, which serves the approximately 100 residents of Hillside, Hillside staff and a few employees at the Finger Lakes Technology Group, was estimated at:

Demolish and replace existing treatment facility, headworks, screw pump, replace roof, doors, new electrical system, new generator, new heating and ventilation, etc, etc $3,156,000

Plus:

Mobilization/Demobilization/General Conditions $315,600
Inflation $104,164
Engineering/Legal/Administrative Costs $694,430
Contingency $694,430


ESTIMATE OF PROBABLE PROJECT COST TO RENOVATE THE HILLSIDE PLANT $4,965,000

THAT IS $49,650/RESIDENT


The Five Points and Willard repair estimates are similarly outrageous and unnecessary for compliance with DEC.

It appears the costs of bringing the plant into compliance were inflated to PROVE that the consolidated option was the best choice and to bring sewer services to the Depot, without cost to the new owner.

Too bad no one knows what is ACTUALLY required to bring the plants into compliance.

So SCWooodchuck and I were BOTH WRONG about the cost of "renovating" the existing plants.

The Estimates in the PER for the RENNOVATE option are:

Hillside $4,965,000
Five Points $12,334,000
Willard $8,593,000

OR $25,892,000 to renovate the existing plants.












Edited by all seeing eye (08/02/18 09:55 PM)
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#1518381 --- 08/02/18 10:05 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2220
Loc: Seneca Lake
I thought the County Manager was on vacation. Perhaps your source will go on the record?

Here is a link to the presentation made at the Committee/Board meeting:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lFTi5FbWudSsd9bDi4RguVqex2am2HM6/view?usp=sharing

Read it and decide for yourself. PS, I was at the last meeting and it answered none of the questions that the existing customers had. But I am sure Earl Martin and Barton and LoGiudice are happy. One got a free sewer system, increasing his property values and the other found a new multi-year cash cow.

Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
The facts will be made known in time, actually the facts have already been made known to anyone who was at the last committee meeting. All it took was a phone call to someone who gave me an honest answer. Facts and honesty are not easy to find on the internet or in the newspaper.


Edited by all seeing eye (08/02/18 10:10 PM)
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