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#1517574 --- 07/23/18 03:52 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
The report also does not include those unpleasant charts providing the existing and proposed costs for various users.

The public, especially the customers in the Sewer Districts deserve a lot more information before the BOS votes.
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#1517578 --- 07/23/18 04:07 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
AGREED!!!

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#1517586 --- 07/23/18 07:29 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
John Q Public Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/13
Posts: 36
Loc: NY
Lets see the "woodchuck" argue that point. He calls others insiders but he acts like he is one himself. Or she.


Edited by John Q Public (07/23/18 07:45 PM)

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#1517640 --- 07/24/18 11:31 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
I received a copy of ANOTHER Professional Engineering report that DOES have the rates to customers in it.

THESE ARE IN ADDITION TO CURRENT FEES. SO THESE SHOULD BE ADDED TO CURRENT COSTS:

An EDU is basically a residential property.

The first method allocates the cost of the treatment and conveyances to ALL users, meaning Lodi and Ovid will pay for the new lines from the depot ($250.00/EDU/year), benefiting the new owner of the Depot.

Sewer District 1 Sewer District 2 $250.00/EDU/year


The Second method allocates costs to the District in which the cost is incurred, with a lower cost to Sewer 1, which only includes the plant upgrade than Sewer 2 which includes both plant upgrades and new lines and pumps.

Sewer District 1 $186.00/EDU/year

Sewer District 2 $324.00/EDU/year

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I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

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#1517642 --- 07/24/18 11:50 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
Here is the explanation from the Report on the need to extend the district to accommodate "Future Development"

2.2.6 Anticipated Development

Future development within the Sewer Districts is anticipated to occur on the former Depot property. Approximately 7,000 acres of the Depot was sold to a local developer in 2017 who is currently developing plans to expand operations onto the Depot property. The proposed manufacturing facility, Seneca Ironworks, will provide manufacturing of agricultural equipment. Following expansion, it is anticipated this facility will employ 300 people and generate approximately
200,000 gallons per month (average of ~6,700 gpd) of pre-treated industrial wastewater. Additionally, the future development will include construction of an estimated 30 homes as well as plans for potential commercial development along the interior County Road 135. The additional development potential is largely dependent upon future access to sanitary sewer conveyances.
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I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

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#1517655 --- 07/24/18 02:16 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
Ok, what is mandatory to meet DEC, and what is a being engineered as (future development) at such a huge burden to its users?

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#1517656 --- 07/24/18 02:41 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
The three plants need to be upgraded and updated to meet new discharge limits, be more energy efficient, put in electronic monitoring, etc. and for long delayed maintenance, like roofs, windows, doors, etc. They are pretty old. Most of the pump stations along the existing lines need upgrading, too, but that really is not on DEC's radar unless there is a failure.



The cost projections in the plan ignore the fact that DOCCS owns the Five Points plant and would be responsible for most of the cost. So those costs are included as of they are county expenses.


Complete remodelling of the Willard Plant, to accommodate all the sewage from both districts, converting Hillside and Five Points to pump stations, and all the "conveyances" to transfer the waste to Willard is not necessary to make DEC happy.
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#1517673 --- 07/24/18 03:44 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
lovinglife Offline
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Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 130
I don't know why people think that because someone has "facts" they have a personal agenda against others. More people need to be brought up to speed and not rely on friends or cronies telling the truth all the time. Thank you for posting and trying to explain some of this to all of us....I don't understand it all but am trying to.

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#1517684 --- 07/24/18 05:10 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
John Q Public Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/13
Posts: 36
Loc: NY
very helpful information. Where is chucky?

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#1517696 --- 07/24/18 08:45 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
The proposal suggests they are going to try and create a "Joint District" using Inter Municipal Agreements, rather than follow the County Law which would require hearing to extend, consolidate or dissolve County Special Districts, which includes Sewer. Those laws require a public referendum, not just a hearing, which the BOS not only ignores, it doesn't even require a report from the hearing, before making a decision
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#1517698 --- 07/24/18 08:52 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
You said;
"If not, there are other votes going forward, but the BOS is going to be told, they have no choice, the next step is to implement the proposal that the BOS submitted to DEC."
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#1517699 --- 07/24/18 08:54 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
I agree.

But DEC is useful to scare the uninformed to make uninformed decisions and statements.




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#1517700 --- 07/24/18 08:54 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: John Q Public]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
As usual, what was distributed to the BOS before the meeting, was NOT what was distributed by the engineers to the BOS at the meeting.

The engineers described it as the Executive Summary, which was not included in either report I saw.

Of course, no one on the BOS had any opportunity to review the document prior to discussing it.

And, as usual it was discussed without the public having a clue what they were talking about, as no summary was provided to the attendees.

There was some discussion about the resolution. The total project cost $25,000,000. The engineers have no idea if the State of New York, which owns the Five Point plant and gets sewage treatment for Willard DTC will move forward, but the engineers asked the State to contribute to the project. Not surprisingly they haven't received an answer. The projected costs depend on getting a $5,000,000 grant.

I was able to look at the document, at least to get the estimated cost per user.


The cost per year for Sewer #1 is estimated at $414/EDU/year (up from $180)

For Sewer #2 the estimate is $637/EDU/year (up from $200)


The project was approved by the BOS, but the engineers say the details can be tweaked.


Edited by all seeing eye (07/24/18 08:55 PM)
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I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

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#1517701 --- 07/24/18 08:58 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Of course, DEC knows about it. Karis Manning was at the May workshop.

DEC Probably has the report already. Which is why the rush to get BOS approval by August 1 is ridiculous.

The only reason to rush this is to do it without informing the public that is going to pay for it.

What other reason can you think of? Good government? Transparency?


Then you say

While the DEC set a date of August 1, for this report, if they accepted an escrow account, instead of replacing failing pumps, they will accept a short extension of the Report, beyond August 1, to address public concerns.
"
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#1517702 --- 07/24/18 09:05 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Gdog
Very deceptive, No real mention of any facts or intentions.
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#1517705 --- 07/24/18 09:34 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
The engineer said that DEC had read the Professional Engineering Report and provided 3-4 pages of comments. So they are aware the County is working on the issue.

It is extremely doubtful that a delay to involve the public, that is going to pay for this, would trigger any sort of enforcement action or penalties.

If you can find any examples of DEC penalizing a municipality that is working in good faith to solve a problem, please share.
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#1517740 --- 07/25/18 09:53 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
FingerLakes1 Video of Committee meeting

Finger Lakes 1 video taped the session. The first 40 minutes are the Public Works meeting.

Once again the threat that, if the board doesn't do something, DEC is going to come in and impose a solution was the final motivator.

If DEC came in, it would tell the county to repair and upgrade EACH of the plants. It would NOT require that the plants be consolidated and a sewer line installed to serve Earl Martin.
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

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#1517751 --- 07/25/18 01:08 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
So why is it that "YOU" are the only one who seems to think the threat of DEC intervention is nothing to be concerned about ?


"If DEC came in, it would tell the county to repair and upgrade EACH of the plants. It would NOT require that the plants be consolidated and a sewer line installed to serve Earl Martin."

Didn't I say this in an earlier post ? You need to pay closer attention to what you read because you mess it up a little bit every time.
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#1517819 --- 07/25/18 05:56 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
Because I have seen them in action and have worked with them for years.

As an example, the ash landfill used for the coal plant in Dresden, has been leaking heavy metals in the groundwater for 10+ years. What did DEC do? Offered them a consent order in 2015 that has still not been implemented. The landfill is still leaking and DEC keeps allowing extensions of the corrective action. Fine 0.

Or the water withdrawal at Greenidge. They are permitted to withdraw 132,000,000/gals per day into the once through cooling system. The law requires screens and variable speed pumps. What has been installed, nothing. Is there a deadline, no. In fact DEC gave them a new permit. Did nothing to deal with the fish blender, which may be where all the fish have gone.

Here's another example, this one an actual discharge of raw sewage into the Keuka Outlet and contaminating private water supplies and regularly exceeding discharge limits.

Penn Yan pays fine for spill

The village agrees to pay $5,000 and to follow compliance steps in a consent order with Department of Environmental Conservation in response to the Aug. 24 sludge spill that entered Keuka Lake Outlet

The village board will pay a $5,000 fine to the Department of Environmental Conservation and take steps to prevent future spills of effluent from the sewage treatment plant. But if Penn Yan does not comply with the order issued after a summer spill of sludge that entered the Keuka Lake Outlet, the village could be on the hook for another $42,580.

On Aug. 24, the village reported a 35,000 gallon spill that resulted in sludge from the sewage treatment plant entering the Keuka Lake Outlet. That spill caused significant concerns from people who draw drinking water from Seneca Lake in the area of the Keuka Outlet near Dresden. Immediately after the spill, village officials advised people to not enter or to let their pets enter the Keuka Lake Outlet. Following the spill, members of the public raised concerns about how downstream neighbors were notified of the potential pollutant in the stream.

In addition to the spill on Aug. 24, according to state officials, between July 1, 2016 and July 31, 2017, the village reported multiple instances of exceeding the limits of specific discharges from the plant. (Facilities that discharge fluids into a body of water in New York State must seek approval through a State Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (SPDES) permit).

The Village Board agreed to the Consent Order at its Nov. 21 meeting. The agreement is subject to the approval of the DEC, through a signature by Regional Director Paul D’Amato.

State officials have suspended most of the total $47,580 penalty, but if the village fails to meet the conditions of the agreement, it could be required to pay a suspended penalty of $42,580. The DEC has also retained the right to levy additional penalties if the village does not fully comply with the order, which includes four specific compliance areas, each with requirements and timelines.

While the order requires communication with the DEC, and Penn Yan village officials have said they plan to communicate with downstream neighbors in the event of a future spill, this order does not require such communication.

State law authorizes civil penalties of up to $37,500 per day each violation continues



Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
So why is it that "YOU" are the only one who seems to think the threat of DEC intervention is nothing to be concerned about ?


"If DEC came in, it would tell the county to repair and upgrade EACH of the plants. It would NOT require that the plants be consolidated and a sewer line installed to serve Earl Martin."

Didn't I say this in an earlier post ? You need to pay closer attention to what you read because you mess it up a little bit every time.

There is not a single member of the County BOS or staff who have ever dealt with DEC on compliance issues, so they have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

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#1517826 --- 07/25/18 07:37 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
Here's a report of another DEC "intervention" that demonstrates how they operate:

DEC orders Waterloo to deal with wastewater

By DAVID L. SHAW dshaw@fltimes.com
Dec 13, 2011

WATERLOO — Village officials have received a draft consent order from the state Department of Environmental Conservation for violating its wastewater discharge permit.

The order had been expected by village officials, who have begun a plan of correction.

Village Attorney Dennis Benjamin said village officials and representatives of MRB Group, the village’s consulting engineers, will meet with DEC Region 8 officials Jan. 4 or 5 to discuss the consent order.

“We will review the items in the consent order and put together a response,” said Mayor Theodore Young. “We are moving forward on our sewer project. The sewer lines have been videotaped to locate leaks or infiltration from the stormwater.”

The village has also notified property owners of the need to separate sump pumps and roof gutters from the sanitary sewer.

Leo J. Bracci, DEC Region 8 attorney, in a Nov. 25 letter to Young, said it’s the DEC’s preference to resolve violations of the State Pollutant Discharge Elimination System permit by an administrative consent order.

He enclosed a draft consent order for the village’s consideration. Bracci said the matter “requires immediate attention” and suggested a meeting to discuss the proposed order and a civil penalty.

The order says that on various occasions between Jan. 1, 2010, and Sept. 30, 2011, the village wastewater treatment plant on East River Road “discharged pollutants to the waters of the state that exceeded the effluent limitations contained in the permit.”

Also, on Sept. 30, 2010, Dec. 1, 2010, and April 27, 2011, the village reported bypass events at the treatment plant to the DEC “but failed to report the volume of the discharge in violation of state law.”

A bypass event is when sewage is discharged into the Cayuga-Seneca Canal with little or no treatment because the amount of water going through the plant is more than it can handle.

The order requires the village to take these steps:

• Upgrade and improve the treatment plant and the collection system according to the terms and conditions of a schedule in a timely fashion.

• File a status report with the DEC on April 2, 2012, and on the second day of each July, October, January and April thereafter until the village achieves consistent compliance with the permit.

• On or before March 31, 2015, the village must complete all steps necessary to correct inflow and infiltration problems existing in the sanitary sewer collection system.

MRB submitted a plan to address the inflow and infiltration problems March 2, 2011.

• On or before April 2, 2012, the village must submit a report to DEC that updates the status of implementation of the plan, including a schedule to complete the work to correct the problems.

• Until the inflow and infiltration problems are corrected, beginning Oct. 2, 2012, and on the second date of each succeeding April and October, the village must submit status reports describing the progress made in correcting the inflow and infiltration problem.

• On or before June 30, 2015, or within 90 days from completion of all work necessary to correct the inflow and infiltration problems, the village must submit a final report that demonstrates the problems have been corrected.

• DEC has listed interim effluent limits for discharges from the plant that will apply from the effective date of the order until the village complies with the terms of the order or until a declaration by the DEC that the village has failed to comply with the order, whichever occurs first.

• If the village fails to meet any of the interim discharge limits, it will be fined $500 for each violation of a daily interim limit.



Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
So why is it that "YOU" are the only one who seems to think the threat of DEC intervention is nothing to be concerned about ?


"If DEC came in, it would tell the county to repair and upgrade EACH of the plants. It would NOT require that the plants be consolidated and a sewer line installed to serve Earl Martin."

Didn't I say this in an earlier post ? You need to pay closer attention to what you read because you mess it up a little bit every time.



Edited by all seeing eye (07/25/18 08:05 PM)
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