FingerLakes1.com Forums
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#1517405 --- 07/20/18 08:59 PM Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
In-District Customers of Seneca County Sewer Districts (Lakeshore Landing, Spring Meadows, and Village of Ovid) and

Out-of-District customers (Hamlets of Willard and Romulus, Village of Lodi and Varick Sewer District #2 (East Lake Road.)

Just when I thought Seneca County government could not surprise me, I sit here amazed at the agenda for the July 24 Board of Supervisors and Committee Meetings:

SENECA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
STANDING COMMITTEE MEETINGS
Tuesday, July 24, 2018


PUBLIC WORKS (Trout, Chair; Hayssen, Vice-Chair; Garlick-Lorenzetti; Kronenwetter; Brownell)

1. ISSUE: Approve Final Professional Engineering Report for Seneca County Sewer District 1 & 2 and the Alternative #3 Centralized Treatment at Willard WWTP

SPECIAL BOARD MEETING AT 7:00:

APPROVE FINAL PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING REPORT FOR SENECA COUNTY SEWER DISTRICT 1 & 2 AND THE ALTERNATIVE #3 CENTRALIZED TREATMENT AT WILLARD WWTP

Board Agenda and Resolution

There has been no information about a proposed consolidation of Seneca County Sewer District #1 and Sewer District #2 provided to the public. Customers have not been advised of the purpose, value or cost of the project.
An engineering firm, Barton and LoGuidice, has been working on the plan, with the County Manager and the County Commissioner of Public Works, with a few “workshops,” for “stakeholders.” The stakeholders list does not include a single residential customer, nor the management of Spring Meadows or the HOA at Lakeshore Landing.

It does include:
• State agencies
• Hillside Children’s Center
• Seneca Iron Works (Owned by Earl Martin, new owner of the Depot, which has no sewer connection.)

A link to the 3rd Workshop presentation is below:

3rd Workshop on Sewer District Extension and Consolidation May 2018

(The report the BOS will be voting on has NOT been made available to the public, IMHO, in violation of the Open Meetings Law.)

These comments are based on the presentation from May.

The total estimated cost of the project is $25,000,000 ($18,000,000 for plant upgrades and $7,000,000 for new mains and pumps stations).

The presentation describes increases in costs to various areas, IF ALL OF THE GRANTS AND NO INTEREST LOANS ARE AWARDED. There is no adjustment for existing debt service on Sewer #1 or the significant surplus in Sewer #2.

For many customers, these costs will be in addition to municipal charges for pipe and pump maintenance and any debt service. (I have to say the tables are confusing as some existing costs are annual and some are quarterly.)

What is apparent is that the increases will be significant.

Some examples:
Location
Spring Meadows From $200 To $ 648
Village of Lodi From $180 To $ 421
Hamlet of Romulus from $120 To $ 648

It does not correct the fees to Sampson State Park, which is $180/quarter or $720/year and leaves them at 4 EDUS, despite:
• day visitors;
• 103 slip marina;
• superintendent’s house;
• Cottages 10;
• Cabins 7;
• Campsite/RV sites 300;
• fresh water filling and sewage dumping stations; restaurant/camp store , public restroom and bathhouses.

What is the cost benefit of running a sewer line MILES down 96A from the Hillside Wastewater Treatment Plant (WWTP) in Sewer #2 (Hillside Campus) to Willard vs upgrading the plant. This sewer plant serves approximately 100 residents and staff as well as the employees at First Light (formerly Finger Lakes Technology Group.) It is NOT implicated in the phosphorus contamination of Reeder Creek.

There are no current customers along the new proposed line from the Hillside entrance to Sampson.

It appears to be an attempt to extend the County Sewer Districts to serve the proposed development of the Depot without going through the legal process.

The “benefited users,” including the new owner of the Depot, should be paying the cost of the extension, not the existing customers and it should follow the process required for an extension of a County District in the County Law, including a referendum.

The other WWTP in Sewer #2 is OWNED by the State of New York. Has the State agreed to any of this and agreed to pay their fair share? The State upgraded the Five Points plant in 2001 to assure dedicated access to sewage treatment for the 1500 inmates and staff. Will the State accept this idea?

There are SERIOUS problems at the Willard WWTP (Sewer #1). The DEC said in 2014 that the existing screw pumps need to be replaced as they are in danger of failing or deteriorating “to the point that they can no longer keep pace with peak influent flows. (i.e. Sewage back-ups in the collection system which then create unauthorized bypasses is an excellent indicator that the pump has failed.) The screw lift pumps are a critical piece of equipment which must be maintained for the entire POTW process to work.

In other words, if the pumps fail, raw sewage will flow into Seneca Lake, all along the collection line. A bond was issued in 2015 to replace the pumps. However, the pumps have not been replaced.

The County told DEC its solution was to “escrow funds” using the bond revenue received “in the pursuit of capital improvements of the system. Several large improvement projects have been put on hold until the long term path is defined through a Preliminary Engineering Report. This bond revenue, exceeding $800,000, would be used in the event of an immediate reaction to a screw pump failure.”

That’s nice. They will fix the pumps AFTER they fail and contaminate Seneca Lake (and probably some residences), even though the customers are paying debt service and interest on the bond to repair the pumps.

Amazingly, DEC seems to have accepted this solution.

I have NO idea what is in the report that the Supervisors have before them, but I would suggest that customers of the Districts contact the Supervisors at supervisors@co.seneca.ny.us and ask them to slow down the process and share the report with the public. Customers might want to attend the meeting on Tuesday.

While the DEC set a date of August 1, for this report, if they accepted an escrow account, instead of replacing failing pumps, they will accept a short extension of the Report, beyond August 1, to address public concerns.
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
FingerLakes1.com
#1517406 --- 07/20/18 10:02 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
You can not be serious!!! There is something very dirty in Denmark. I almost want to assume there are some major kickbacks going on if this is going to happen.

Top
#1517480 --- 07/22/18 12:36 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
She's serious but not very accurate. If something stinks in Denmark it's the way you are getting your information.
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1517481 --- 07/22/18 01:01 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
The information I used was from a powerpoint presented by Barton and LoGuidice, in May, to stakeholders. I posted a link. It was obtained from the County under Freedom of Information.

Shocking you would question anything from the County.

Neither the County nor Barton and LoGuidice, have made any information available to the public, much less told residents that their sewer rates were going to double or triple. Much of the cost going to help with Depot development.

What I think "stinks in Denmark," is putting the approval on the fasttrack, with out informing the public who will have to pay for it.

Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
She's serious but not very accurate. If something stinks in Denmark it's the way you are getting your information.
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517484 --- 07/22/18 01:37 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
There has to be public hearings. And I think there is some sort of connection between Engineering and possibly officials. It seems things are not even being questioned.

Top
#1517485 --- 07/22/18 02:08 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
The proposal suggests they are going to try and create a "Joint District" using Inter Municipal Agreements, rather than follow the County Law which would require hearing to extend, consolidate or dissolve County Special Districts, which includes Sewer. Those laws require a public referendum, not just a hearing, which the BOS not only ignores, it doesn't even require a report from the hearing, before making a decision.



Originally Posted By: Gdog
There has to be public hearings. And I think there is some sort of connection between Engineering and possibly officials. It seems things are not even being questioned.
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517486 --- 07/22/18 02:40 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
John Q Public Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/13
Posts: 36
Loc: NY
I can't believe Bob and Cindy will go along with what is being suggested here. Time will tell. If they don't, is there another vote in Committee to stop it?

Top
#1517488 --- 07/22/18 02:46 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: John Q Public]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
The other members of Public Works are Don Trout, Ernie Brownell, and Paul Kronenwetter. Hopefully one or more of them will table this until the public can be informed.

If not, there are other votes going forward, but the BOS is going to be told, they have no choice, the next step is to implement the proposal that the BOS submitted to DEC.




Originally Posted By: John Q Public
I can't believe Bob and Cindy will go along with what is being suggested here. Time will tell. If they don't, is there another vote in Committee to stop it?
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517491 --- 07/22/18 02:59 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
So tell us why the BOS has "no choice". And explain how the state possibly doesn't know about this, when the DEC is a state agency.

Why don't you explain why this is on a fast track.


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/22/18 03:01 PM)
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1517492 --- 07/22/18 03:25 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
Of course, DEC knows about it. Karis Manning was at the May workshop.

DEC Probably has the report already. Which is why the rush to get BOS approval by August 1 is ridiculous.

The only reason to rush this is to do it without informing the public that is going to pay for it.

What other reason can you think of? Good government? Transparency?



Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
So tell us why the BOS has "no choice". And explain how the state possibly doesn't know about this, when the DEC is a state agency.

Why don't you explain why this is on a fast track.


Edited by all seeing eye (07/22/18 03:27 PM)
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517493 --- 07/22/18 03:28 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
Can they really not follow procedures and skip the referendum. I think this needs to be known by all that will be affected with these enormous rate hikes. I am a user of Sewer District 1 and this will be a mess. What about the Village of Lodi. I know they could not afford 3 times higher rates.

Top
#1517498 --- 07/22/18 04:18 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
I think, based on the May proposal, they are going to try, but can't tell until I see what the BOS will be voting on.

Most people in the County Sewer Districts can't afford it, but it will hit the Village of Lodi, Village of Ovid and the hamlets worst.

It might take a lawsuit to stop them. Not sure fairness and reasonableness arguments will work.
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517519 --- 07/22/18 07:20 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
There is a perfectly ligitimate reason for the way it's being done, you just withhold some details and put a negative spin on it. There are two choices, do it your way now or do it when the DEC comes crashing down on you, their way.
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1517520 --- 07/22/18 08:23 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
Can you share what the "perfectly legitimate" reason might be?

Pretty sure DEC isn't crashing down on anyone. Not their style. If you think so, please share an example.

Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
There is a perfectly ligitimate reason for the way it's being done, you just withhold some details and put a negative spin on it. There are two choices, do it your way now or do it when the DEC comes crashing down on you, their way.
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517521 --- 07/22/18 08:41 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
DEC inspectors are very easy to work with. They give you ample time to make repairs and/or improvements. They give you a timeline that suits both parties. I have dealt with them numerous times.

Top
#1517522 --- 07/22/18 08:56 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
I agree.

But DEC is useful to scare the uninformed to make uninformed decisions and statements.






Edited by all seeing eye (07/22/18 09:01 PM)
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517534 --- 07/23/18 07:27 AM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1892
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
It's way too obvious that you two are working together on this wink. You are both insiders with a personal agenda. In the end everything will work out because there are too many board members who aren't as dumb as you think. There are three board members who are just plain obstructionists that try to make things seem more complicated and cause problems for the county manager and the rest of the board. Things have improved since Churchill left but there are two more board members that need to go.

Didn't the DEC already give them a deadline on this sewer issue sick


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/23/18 07:28 AM)
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1517548 --- 07/23/18 12:02 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
Just got access to the Final Engineering report. No mention of Referenda in its goals:

Additional long-term project goals and objectives included:

Development of a sustainable and affordable capital improvement plan and plan of finance for County Sewer District 1 and 2 wastewater treatment and conveyance systems to achieve consistent compliance with WWTP SPDES permits;

Providing capacity for anticipated organic growth and development;

Addressing I/I within the existing in- and out-of-district collection systems, resulting in reduced flows and operating costs;

Development of IMAs and agreements between the Districts and the various in- and out-of-district municipalities and major institutional users;

Simplification of daily operations and process controls through enhanced automation and remote communications;

Providing for consistent, fair and equitable allocation of sewer debt service, operation and maintenance costs across all users; and

Consolidation of districts and associated infrastructure assets for simplicity of operations.

"Anticipated organic growth and development," means providing a sewer services to the Depot property bought by Earl Martin:

2.2.6

Anticipated Development

Future development within the Sewer Districts is anticipated to occur on the former Depot property. Approximately 7,000 acres of the Depot was sold to a local developer in 2017 who is currently developing plans to expand operations onto the Depot property. The proposed manufacturing facility, Seneca Ironworks, will provide manufacturing of agricultural equipment. Following expansion, it is anticipated this facility will employ 300 people and generate approximately 200,000 gallons per month (average of ~6,700 gpd) of pre-treated industrial wastewater. Additionally, the future development will include construction of an estimated 30 homes as well as plans for potential commercial development along the interior County Road 135. The additional development potential is largely dependent upon future access to sanitary sewer conveyances




Originally Posted By: Gdog
Can they really not follow procedures and skip the referendum. I think this needs to be known by all that will be affected with these enormous rate hikes. I am a user of Sewer District 1 and this will be a mess. What about the Village of Lodi. I know they could not afford 3 times higher rates.


Edited by all seeing eye (07/23/18 12:31 PM)
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
#1517555 --- 07/23/18 01:07 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: all seeing eye]
Gdog Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 319
Very deceptive, No real mention of any facts or intentions.

Top
#1517561 --- 07/23/18 02:01 PM Re: Heads Up, Seneca County Sewer District #1 and #2 Customers [Re: Gdog]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2176
Loc: Seneca Lake
And, while the 3rd Workshop discusses a "'joint' project structure," implemented by intermunicipal agreements, this report is strangely silent on the required legal steps to implement the recommendation.

It just moves along with DEC approval, application for grants and loans, then construction:

Page 215:

Project Schedule Milestone

Submit PER to NYSDEC in accordance with NOV conditions August 2018
Submit Final PER to EFC for CWSRF Project Listing, Draft/Final IUP September 2018
Environmental Review (SEQR/SERP) Fall 2018
Map & Plans - 202b Improvements Process Fall/Winter 2018
Agreement Negotiations/Revisions/Execution Winter/Spring 2019
Bond Resolution(s) Spring 2019
Submit CWSRF funding application to NYSEFC Spring 2019
Submit WIIA Grant Application June 2019
Submit 2019 CFA Application (WQIP, ESD) July 2019
Close on Short Term Financing (CWSRF) Fall 2019
Final Design and Permitting Winter/Spring 2019/20
Submit Project Plans & Specifications for Review and Approval Spring 2020
Permits and Approvals Spring/Summer 2020
Project Letting/Bidding Phase Fall 2020
Award Bids Winter 2020
Construction Start Spring 2021
_________________________
I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say "Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >