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#1517324 --- 07/20/18 11:25 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: justacitizen]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Finger Lakes
Seems like it'd be useful for the city to host a public forum where residents could pose questions to the finalists. Residents could then provide the committee with feedback.

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#1517334 --- 07/20/18 11:55 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
was this 'credible inside source' involved with executive council sessions?


Obviously.


is it true that council members sign a sworn statement NOT to release information released during executive session?


I'm not sure. Are you saying you know this for a fact?

Originally Posted By: bluezone
if a council member released confidential information talked about in executive session should that council member be removed from their position?


To my knowledge, a councilor can only be investigated for an ethics violation if this occurs.

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#1517335 --- 07/20/18 11:56 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: justacitizen]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
GB, please spare me the "I'm perplexed", "I'm flabbergasted" nonsense.  I stand by what I said, that's why i said it;  duh!, and, I say we need to continue the search for city manager.   Sage Gearing by default will not do.  The whole mess just seems like a not so clever plan to get Gerling the CM job.  It stinks!  Forget about Flynn Murphy and Gerling.  Time to move on.

A minor matter at this point, but you have poor reading comprehension skills, or something, 'cause i never suggested Gerling was weak, nor did i recommend we go back to Flynn and Murphy.  It would be a Herculean task to parse your written language, but i detect a lot of slimy seaweed in amoungst the words you choose to communicate your take on things Geneva.  Mixing fiction with fact, twisting words to suit your argument, quoting unnamed sources and basing an argument off of that is just not going to get you any much needed "street cred", at least not from me.

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#1517336 --- 07/20/18 11:58 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
You might be surprised at the list of sources that I have

I have had more than one source providing information related to the city manager search.


and yet all your sources did not intervene earlier to review the candidates that you are now questioning


The sources didn't "intervene." They provided the names of the final three candidates when they were available. I don't expect my sources to give me all information about everything all the time.

And the information was given to me due to very real concerns about the backgrounds of Rick Finn and Martin Murphy.

Do you, or anyone else, want to talk about Rick Finn or Martin Murphy?

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#1517339 --- 07/20/18 12:47 PM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: ruby2]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: ruby2
GB, please spare me the "I'm perplexed", "I'm flabbergasted" nonsense.  I stand by what I said, that's why i said it;  duh!,


Then can you offer some reasons? Can you give at least a couple of examples of how Sage Gerling ignores the needs of the working class that you claim to be championing?

"I stand by what I said" isn't terribly convincing.


Originally Posted By: ruby2
Forget about Flynn Murphy and Gerling.  Time to move on.


No, I don't think anyone should "forget about" the fact that Finn and Murphy were the two top favorites of council.

I want to know why. I want to know which councilors thought, out of 21 applicants, that Rick Finn was the best choice for our city at this time, and why.

Don't you?

Originally Posted By: ruby2
A minor matter at this point, but you have poor reading comprehension skills, or something, 'cause i never suggested Gerling was weak, nor did i recommend we go back to Flynn and Murphy.


You said that she would not be able to represent the working class, which I construed as meaning she would be a 'weak' advocate for the working class.

And I guess I am also a little baffled at how you and others want to talk about leaks, talk about me, and talk about everything except Rick Finn, Martin Murphy, and how the hell we ended up with them in the top two candidates. That's why I keep bringing them up, but it's apparent that, so far, nobody on this forum seems to want to talk about that aspect.

Originally Posted By: ruby2
It would be a Herculean task to parse your written language, but i detect a lot of slimy seaweed in amoungst the words you choose to communicate your take on things Geneva.  Mixing fiction with fact, twisting words to suit your argument, quoting unnamed sources and basing an argument off of that is just not going to get you any much needed "street cred", at least not from me.


"Hurculean task?" You flatter me. I think you can keep up with what I'm saying, you just choose not to.

And if my sources were wrong, there would have been denials from the city, especially when the story was covered by the Finger Lakes Times.

Anyway, I'd still be interested to hear your take on why Finn and Murphy were the top two candidates, and what led you to believe that Gerling would not be a good representative of the working class.

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#1517341 --- 07/20/18 01:04 PM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: FLaker]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: FLaker
Seems like it'd be useful for the city to host a public forum where residents could pose questions to the finalists. Residents could then provide the committee with feedback.


I agree.

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#1517349 --- 07/20/18 01:24 PM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: justacitizen]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
GB, You're exhausting!  I fear I've fallen into that bed of seaweed you live in.  I must go now if i hope to save myself from your relentless onslaught of almost-true, but really not-quite-true facts, accusations and taunts.  I have no more interest in this subject at present.  You have drained my blood of interest.

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#1517356 --- 07/20/18 01:39 PM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: ruby2]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: ruby2
GB, You're exhausting!  I fear I've fallen into that bed of seaweed you live in.  I must go now if i hope to save myself from your relentless onslaught of almost-true, but really not-quite-true facts, accusations and taunts.  I have no more interest in this subject at present.  You have drained my blood of interest.


Ah, I see you're using the old "accuse the other person of half-truths and taunts and then feign disinterest when you find yourself losing ground in a debate" ploy.

Yeah, I think it's best you step away from this one now, but if you'd like to have an actual discussion, I'm always around.

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#1517422 --- 07/21/18 08:33 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: Geneva Believer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Another search would be costly and time-consuming


and what would be the cost?



I don't know exactly, but there's a cost for re-posting the job on a national scale, and there's a cost for city employees (including councilors) to do the search again (they get paid so their time is money).


you stated that there were 21 individuals that applied for the job

just go down the list of the remaining individuals

councilors get paid a flat fee so having them interview a few more individuals would not cost the taxpayers any more money

the city is not paying a salary/benefits/health/car expenses... package for matt horn so there is a temporary savings

most likely the city is paying less to cover the vacant postion of city manager until a full time city manager is found


it is not costly to post a job opening online

is it true that the city, ontario county and NYS have their own website to post it on?


_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1517423 --- 07/21/18 08:52 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: Geneva Believer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
You might be surprised at the list of sources that I have

I have had more than one source providing information related to the city manager search.


and yet all your sources did not intervene earlier to review the candidates that you are now questioning


The sources didn't "intervene." They provided the names of the final three candidates when they were available. I don't expect my sources to give me all information about everything all the time.


if you do not have all the facts how can you even make any proper decision?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1517425 --- 07/21/18 09:00 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: Geneva Believer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
was this 'credible inside source' involved with executive council sessions?


Obviously.


is it true that council members sign a sworn statement NOT to release information released during executive session?


I'm not sure.


what do you mean you are not sure?

do you even know why they go into executive session?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1517427 --- 07/21/18 09:21 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: Geneva Believer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
if a council member released confidential information talked about in executive session should that council member be removed from their position?


To my knowledge, a councilor can only be investigated for an ethics violation if this occurs.


are you saying that if a councilor releases CONFIDENTIAL information talked about in an executive session you do NOT consider that an ETHICS VIOLATION?

if you have no clue you may better ask one of your trusted 'insiders'
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1517428 --- 07/21/18 09:30 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: Geneva Believer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
I want to know why. I want to know which councilors thought, out of 21 applicants, that **** **** was the best choice for our city at this time, and why.

Don't you?


did your trusted 'insiders' not give you all that information?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1517429 --- 07/21/18 09:57 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone

you stated that there were 21 individuals that applied for the job

just go down the list of the remaining individuals


You originally suggested that they "do another search."

But now you're suggesting something completely different, which is to use the list of applicants from 6 months ago, which is already an outdated list as some applicants have already found jobs, and the list would not include any candidates who have started a job search in the last six months.

Posting a job online for a national search does, in fact, cost money, both in listing fees and the time it takes for city staff to list the jobs. They can't just take a few minutes to list the job on local government websites and call it a "national search."

I hope this helps clear up some of the misunderstandings you have about the search process.

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#1517430 --- 07/21/18 10:01 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone


if you do not have all the facts how can you even make any proper decision?


My point was that my sources weren't giving me daily transcripts of every last detail and occurrence inside the search process. That's usually not how sources work.

I hope this helps you to better understand how journalistic sources work.

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#1517431 --- 07/21/18 10:06 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone

what do you mean you are not sure?

do you even know why they go into executive session?


I am not 100% certain that city councilors sign an agreement swearing that they will not reveal anything said in executive session.

I am 100% certain that they cannot face "charges" for revealing executive session material, as you claimed.

After deeply researching the subject of executive sessions related to past articles I've done about transparency, I am quite confident that I know the reasons why executive sessions are held.

I hope this helps you to understand better.

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#1517432 --- 07/21/18 10:09 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone

are you saying that if a councilor releases CONFIDENTIAL information talked about in an executive session you do NOT consider that an ETHICS VIOLATION?


That would depend on the information released. If the information should not have been withheld from the public and discussed in executive session, I would not see it as an ethics violation. Also, if the information could cause harm to the city by being withheld, I wouldn't consider that an ethics violation either.

I hope this helps you to understand better.



Edited by Geneva Believer (07/21/18 10:09 AM)

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#1517433 --- 07/21/18 10:12 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: bluezone]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva Believer
I want to know why. I want to know which councilors thought, out of 21 applicants, that **** **** was the best choice for our city at this time, and why.

Don't you?


did your trusted 'insiders' not give you all that information?



They did not give me all of the details of why councilors had Finn and Murphy as the front-runners. There also are some details that they did give me that I have withheld for my own reasons.

Also, you don't need to censor Rick Finn's name when you post it. He has already been hired by another city, and he already confirmed that he was one of the candidates for the Geneva job.

I hope this helps you to understand better.


Edited by Geneva Believer (07/21/18 10:15 AM)

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#1517434 --- 07/21/18 10:13 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: justacitizen]
Geneva Believer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/18
Posts: 53
Loc: Geneva, NY
bluezone, what's your opinion on Rick Finn?

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#1517465 --- 07/22/18 06:47 AM Re: Who's in Charge here??? [Re: justacitizen]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
GB, What's the point of continuing to dog Rick Finn.  He's out of the running now in Geneva.  Let him go.

My sources tell me he's working in Watertown as their city manager.  Watertown took him on.  What's the point of your continuing to harass him.  He's not relevant anymore to Geneva's search.  Let him live his life.


Edited by ruby2 (07/22/18 06:50 AM)

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