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#1516496 --- 07/08/18 11:18 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Formermac]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Let's see if I understand you correctly. Crestwood stores gas for other companies, right ? These companies are going to allow their gas to be stored in leaky salt caverns. RIGHT? Now it all makes perfect sense, everybody is in this to lose money.
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#1516660 --- 07/12/18 01:20 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2230
Loc: Seneca Lake

Crestwood’s Bid for Permit to Store LPG In Salt Caverns Is Denied by DEC

Peter Mantius
July 12, 2018

The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation has denied a permit application by a subsidiary of Crestwood Midstream Partners LP to store liquid petroleum gas, or LPG, in unlined caverns next to Seneca Lake, ending a eight-year regulatory battle.

Details to follow shortly.

https://waterfrontonline.blog/2018/07/12...-denied-by-dec/

Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Let's see if I understand you correctly. Crestwood stores gas for other companies, right ? These companies are going to allow their gas to be stored in leaky salt caverns. RIGHT? Now it all makes perfect sense, everybody is in this to lose money.
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#1516663 --- 07/12/18 02:12 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
As the old saying goes " the devil's in the details"


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/12/18 02:14 PM)
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#1516669 --- 07/12/18 03:22 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Timbo]
John Q Public Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/13
Posts: 46
Loc: NY
Intersting how Schuyler County turned their back on the project just before it got flushed. They were so behind it. Oh, it must have been in the details. Not.


Edited by John Q Public (07/12/18 03:22 PM)

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#1516670 --- 07/12/18 03:36 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: John Q Public]
all seeing eye Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2230
Loc: Seneca Lake
Here is the link to the "details:"

Seggos on LPG

Notwithstanding the recommendations of the rulings or the replies of Department staff and applicant to the appeals, my review of the record indicates that petitioners Gas Free Seneca,Seneca Lake Pure Waters Association and Seneca Lake Communities have made compelling arguments concerning cavern integrity and, in particular, potential gas or other leakage that would lead me to reject the conclusion that no adjudicable issues exist.

Even if that were not the case, Applicant’s May 2018 letter, as well as the Gas Free Seneca response thereto, provides a sufficient basis to identify cavern integrity as an adjudicable issue.

As noted, applicant advised that U.S. Salt (which is a separate entity from Finger Lakes LPG) found that well 64, which U.S. Salt is presently developing, “may be in communication with either Gallery 10 (which consists of wells 18, 52 and 57) and/or other nearby wells” (Applicant’s May 2018 letter at 1). Applicant indicated that it will be submitting the results of pressure testing of Gallery 10, which will include various wells as additional monitoring points, and requests that the other participants in the proceeding have the opportunity to comment. In this instance, such a comment process is insufficient – the results and their implications, particularly as they are being provided at this late date, render the adjudication of the cavern integrity issue as the more appropriate course in this situation.

The results of the pressure testing of Gallery 10 and information from the additional monitoring points must be fully evaluated in the context of the prior analyses relating to gas migration, leakage and other aspects of cavern integrity.

Applicant’s May 2018 Letter, it is possible that other pathways for contamination flow would need to be evaluated.

A substantive and significant issue has been raised. Accordingly, the adjudication of the cavern integrity issue would not only be warranted, but demanded. Any adjudication would need to address the extent to which the findings of the investigation affect the conclusions of any of the matters relating to cavern integrity that were contained in the petitions and whether any new cavern-related integrity issues or contamination pathways have been identified.
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#1516671 --- 07/12/18 04:45 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
In the first post it says Crestwood asked for a delay.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/
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#1516672 --- 07/12/18 04:50 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: John Q Public]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: John Q Public
Intersting how Schuyler County turned their back on the project just before it got flushed. They were so behind it. Oh, it must have been in the details. Not.
as the old saying goes "it ain't over till it's over"
You obviously don't understand what you are reading.
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#1516673 --- 07/12/18 05:59 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Timbo]
Crabby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 549
Loc: In the wind
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#1516677 --- 07/12/18 08:21 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
John Q Public Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/13
Posts: 46
Loc: NY
amp.pressconnects.com/amp/767871002

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#1516678 --- 07/12/18 09:16 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Crabby]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Cuomo picked the perfect commissioner for this job. His decision is beautiful and exactly what the opponents wanted. Just one question, can you even build a house in the Finger Lakes now without going against all that rubbish.
I guess we'll just have to wait until the blue green algae scares everyone out of the Finger Lakes. Or maybe we will run out of heating fuel and get froze out.
Anyway Cuomo is up for re-election, if he looses Segos will get fired. Just like the Dekota Axis Pipe Line this decision is temporary, besides I doubt it will hold up in court.


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/12/18 09:20 PM)
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#1516687 --- 07/13/18 06:57 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
Betty. Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 530
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Cuomo picked the perfect commissioner for this job. His decision is beautiful and exactly what the opponents wanted. Just one question, can you even build a house in the Finger Lakes now without going against all that rubbish.
I guess we'll just have to wait until the blue green algae scares everyone out of the Finger Lakes. Or maybe we will run out of heating fuel and get froze out.
Anyway Cuomo is up for re-election, if he looses Segos will get fired. Just like the Dekota Axis Pipe Line this decision is temporary, besides I doubt it will hold up in court.



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#1516688 --- 07/13/18 07:05 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1632
Loc: New York, Seneca
People seem to have a distorted unrealistic sence of value putting wine over heat. When a bottle of wine costs about $15 and a tank of propane about $9 there is something desperately wrong. The gas companies are probably sitting back laughing and counting the huge profits they will be making in the future. When your utility bill goes out of sight you can thank the environmentalist and Cuomo.
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#1516689 --- 07/13/18 07:43 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Betty.]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Betty.


Don't bother me none, I actually think it's hilarious just how stupid people can be. If you would apply the same standards to agriculture (wineries) you might actually be accomplishing something. grin


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/13/18 07:44 AM)

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#1516690 --- 07/13/18 08:13 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 11298
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: Betty.


Don't bother me none, I actually think it's hilarious just how stupid people can be. If you would apply the same standards to agriculture (wineries) you might actually be accomplishing something. grin


Apparently, it does because here we are days later and you systematically still whine over the ruling. whistle

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#1516713 --- 07/13/18 11:40 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Formermac]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: Betty.


Don't bother me none, I actually think it's hilarious just how stupid people can be. If you would apply the same standards to agriculture (wineries) you might actually be accomplishing something. grin


Apparently, it does because here we are days later and you systematically still whine over the ruling. whistle
Where I am I don't have to deal with the consequences and I don't have family that will have to deal with it either. So I hope you liked the increase in your utility bill last year and I hope you are prepared for the next one and the next one and the next one and the next one
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#1516719 --- 07/13/18 11:46 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2230
Loc: Seneca Lake
The LPG to be stored at Reading was to be moved by pipeline to serve New England and for export. In fact, this is mentioned in the decision:


On August 8, 2016, applicant filed a letter detailing several project modifications that it committed to implementing (Applicant’s August 8, 2016 Letter). The modifications include:

(1) the elimination of the proposal to store liquid butane at the facility and the reduction of propane storage capacity from 2.1 million barrels to 1.5 million barrels;

(2) the elimination of the project's rail and truck loading facilities, thereby eliminating the delivery of liquefied petroleum gas by rail or truck to or from the project -- as a result, all deliveries of liquefied petroleum gas would be by pipeline;



Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
People seem to have a distorted unrealistic sence of value putting wine over heat. When a bottle of wine costs about $15 and a tank of propane about $9 there is something desperately wrong. The gas companies are probably sitting back laughing and counting the huge profits they will be making in the future. When your utility bill goes out of sight you can thank the environmentalist and Cuomo.
_________________________
Only fools are positive.
Moe Howard

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#1516720 --- 07/13/18 11:52 AM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 11298
Loc: Above ground
Logically , I'm way ahead of the curve because having a clear understanding as to why we have astronomical heating an electrical bill cause one to take preventative actions in lowering one's utility bills. I'll tell you how this work once you get on board to what must Northern states already know. Maybe you 'll understand the fact that 75% of gas drilled in the United Sates and Canada is sold in those few states and why utilities clamor for a piece of the proverbial pie.

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#1516721 --- 07/13/18 12:00 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
In the first post it says Crestwood asked for a delay.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/
Cuomo and Segos are safe on this one. In reality who got their way ? I would have to say Crestwood. When the caverns have been tested they can just reapply but you can bet they'll wait till after the November elections.
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#1516723 --- 07/13/18 12:03 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: scwoodchuck]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 11298
Loc: Above ground
let me help you further, logistics are essential in gas delivery, if the needed commodity is in the Gulf of Mexico on Friday the 13th and it's 10 degrees out, someone is tough out of luck if the demand become high,thus the reason(s) for creating local (let's call them warehouse) to get the supplies to their destinations a whole lot quicker. Therein lies you problem, you need it that badly, you're going to pay a premium. Now for my point, Trump convince you and others that fossil fuel is our future, whereas in reality, renewable energy is where technology is headed, put two and two together and you'll understand why many Northerner are well prepared and can actually save money as we speak.

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#1516724 --- 07/13/18 12:05 PM Re: Multiple Salt Mine Leaks [Re: Formermac]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1936
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Utilities are just distributors the gas suppliers are more interested in exporting. grin It's a bigger pie.
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