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#1514437 --- 05/01/18 09:45 PM Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Bob Lonsberry on Twitter

Plenty of upset among #Seneca7 runners about political jab in race t-shirt. Running should not become another hotbed of progressive intolerance. Leave the politics at home. Race co-director Jackie Augustine, Keuka professor and former Geneva Democrat politician, is suspected.




7:31 AM - 1 May 2018

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#1514441 --- 05/02/18 07:01 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 631
Loc: Right here.
LOL! Leave it to Jackie (if indeed it was) to put something like this on the tee! Just can't leave it at home? It's also funny to note the the runner is dead last and the banner it tattered, it's the shortest and is not upright.

So many underlying messages in that....

It's not so funny that someone is so focused on that particular subject that it filters into all aspects of their life. We should be sympathetic to this persons' struggle.

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#1514444 --- 05/02/18 08:12 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
4sizzle Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 271
Loc: here and there
I find this very sad. This was an awesome event that several really good people donate to and it has to be tarnished by the beliefs of a few people. The people that donated to this are outraged that politics had to come into this. I wish them luck getting sponsors next year.

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#1514446 --- 05/02/18 09:41 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Finger Lakes
What is the "political jab" portrayed on the tee shirt?

Edit:
I've been informed the flag in question can be interpreted to represent a picture of the president's head. If true, that seems terribly immature and petty.


Edited by FLaker (05/02/18 10:49 AM)

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#1514448 --- 05/02/18 12:01 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
IrieInFLX Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 4
Loc: FLX
Sounds about right. "Doing the Write Thing", the self-righteous 'do as I say not as I do' garbage opinion piece from the garbage Finger Lakes Times. How some people can be so hypocritical and keep a straight face blows my mind.

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#1514450 --- 05/02/18 12:44 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 10899
Loc: Above ground
If all what any of you say is true, attempts to make a anti Trump statement in hopes of getting some form of attention......based on the views and comments, the culprit(s) have already accomplished their agenda by some taking issue with said subject.

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#1514451 --- 05/02/18 01:15 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
It's dumb. This is a nice event that hundreds of people participate in. Why does it have to get political? Since when is running/cycling politics? This event should encourage everyone who wants to participate in it, to do just that, participate. It shouldn't matter what your world views are. It's a shame that this event had to become part of someone's political agenda. We get it Jackie, you're a liberal and anti-trump. Guess what? No one cares. It's a race for Pete's sake.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514454 --- 05/02/18 03:17 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 231
This is a profit-making event for her and her boyfriend. People come from all over to participate. Sponsors want their brand in front of those people. Doubtful that any backlash (however well-deserved) will be effective.

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#1514466 --- 05/03/18 08:42 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
The event's Facebook page addressed the 'controversy' a day ago. You were probably so busy doing good things for the local community that you missed it. wink

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#1514467 --- 05/03/18 08:46 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: pingu]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: pingu
It's also funny to note the the runner is dead last and the banner it tattered, it's the shortest and is not upright.

So many underlying messages in that....



You're not wrong! Just your description of the flag... tattered... shortest... not upright... speaks volumes upon volumes about this administration.

(Well, shortest remains to be seen. But I think we all know haha.)

Edit: dead last on approval ratings? Oh it's too easy!!


Edited by Kells (05/03/18 09:30 AM)

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#1514482 --- 05/03/18 08:25 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
What are you talking about? The point here is that this is a race and politics has nothing to do with it. The fact that the shirt depicts what it does and having nothing to do with a race, but someone's (cough, Jackie Augustine, cough) political agenda, is the problem. Not the proper event to express an opinion that no one cares about. Trump supporter or not, does it really matter for this event? No.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514483 --- 05/03/18 09:35 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 631
Loc: Right here.
Your bias is showing.... read my post again. The anti-trump runner is last, the banner is tattered and is lowest compared to the rest.

Wow. If this was meant to be some protest against trump, it fell a bit short or at least finished last....

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#1514485 --- 05/03/18 10:45 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: pingu]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: pingu
If this was meant to be some protest against trump, it fell a bit short or at least finished last....


Stop, please, stop! Everything you say makes me think of a Trump presidency! You're slaying me over here.

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#1514486 --- 05/03/18 10:48 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: rock 963
What are you talking about? The point here is that this is a race and politics has nothing to do with it. The fact that the shirt depicts what it does and having nothing to do with a race, but someone's (cough, Jackie Augustine, cough) political agenda, is the problem. Not the proper event to express an opinion that no one cares about. Trump supporter or not, does it really matter for this event? No.


You should suck on a lozenge for that cough.

Someone on the race's Facebook page posted a picture of Trump photoshopped to look like Jesus, along with a comment that Trump should build that wall. The irony of this was lost on the conservatives who raced to the page to like that comment. How did conservatism lower itself to this level? Discuss.


Edited by Kells (05/03/18 10:49 PM)

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#1514487 --- 05/04/18 12:57 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Apparently, Lonseberry and more than a few forum posters are too busy defensively carping over some perceived slight, than to investigate the actual reason that the image was used on T-shirts in the first place. The group is a strong public proponent of Seneca Lake environmental wellbeing. The flag is representative of the Trump administration's drastic cuts to environmental funding that would have a direct, dramatic negative effect on the local environment.

If you don't like the message, dispense with the insincere outrage and organize you own event.

Last I knew, it was a free country.
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514488 --- 05/04/18 01:00 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
What are you talking about? The point here is that this is a race and politics has nothing to do with it. The fact that the shirt depicts what it does and having nothing to do with a race, but someone's (cough, Jackie Augustine, cough) political agenda, is the problem. Not the proper event to express an opinion that no one cares about. Trump supporter or not, does it really matter for this event? No.

Apparently, more than a few DO indeed care. Their event, their rules.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514493 --- 05/04/18 07:19 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Timbo]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The flag is representative of the Trump administration's drastic cuts to environmental funding that would have a direct, dramatic negative effect on the local environment.


So true! Trump slashed the budget to protect the lakes by 90% - silence. A race put a slash across Trump on a t-shirt - OUTRAGE!

Those must be the conservative values we hear so much about. As their fearful leader would say: SAD!

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#1514504 --- 05/04/18 12:40 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
The point here is that there shouldn't be ANY politics involved in this event. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever. It's a f'in race and politics have no business in it, regardless of your views. That's the problem with people nowadays is that we've become so enthralled in the bs that we can't even take some time to enjoy a race without someone trying to push their agenda. Just leave the crap out of it. Oh and Kells, I'll give you a lozenge.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514508 --- 05/04/18 01:08 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Finger Lakes
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.

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#1514509 --- 05/04/18 01:33 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Blue_man Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/00
Posts: 423
Loc: Required, FD
Considering the race runs through a number of "conservative" counties (Ontario, Yates, Schuyler, Seneca) and relies on volunteers who reside in those counties, I'm not sure I'd want to be offending Republicans, unless Jackie wants to start paying people to work the event out of her own pocket.

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#1514512 --- 05/04/18 02:38 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Blue_man]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: Blue_man
Considering the race runs through a number of "conservative" counties (Ontario, Yates, Schuyler, Seneca) and relies on volunteers who reside in those counties, I'm not sure I'd want to be offending Republicans


There are conservatives, and there are Trump conservatives. There are still a lot of very fine people in Ontario, Yates, Schuyler, and Seneca counties who are Republican but are disgusted with their party for putting a serial adulterer, [xxxxx]-grabbing, swindling, bigot in the Oval Office.

Sure, some will put their love for Trump over everything. But let's not lump all conservatives with the same Trump-stained brush - some of them care about things like the environment and the health of these lakes, and I doubt this t-shirt offended them too much.


Edited by Kells (05/04/18 02:40 PM)

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#1514513 --- 05/04/18 02:43 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Also, don't forget the farmers, especially the soybean farmers in this area. Trump's trade war is about to seriously crush their farms. Probably not what the locals were expecting when they lined up behind Trump. Sad.

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#1514516 --- 05/04/18 03:23 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
FLaker and Blue_man got it right. This isn't about politics! Am I speaking some alien language that us humans cannot understand. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER WHERE YOUR POLITICAL COMPASS POINTS! It has nothing to do with the race at all. Trump fan or not. Conservative or liberal. Man or woman. It's a race for EVERYBODY!


Edited by rock 963 (05/04/18 03:23 PM)
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514534 --- 05/05/18 07:39 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: rock 963
This isn't about politics! Am I speaking some alien language that us humans cannot understand. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER WHERE YOUR POLITICAL COMPASS POINTS! It has nothing to do with the race at all. Trump fan or not. Conservative or liberal. Man or woman. It's a race for EVERYBODY!


Now you're getting it. It isn't about politics. It is about the environment. Specifically the environment of the Finger Lakes, and Seneca Lake in particular. Trump's 99% cuts to it would be devastating for all of us. Trump fan or not. Conservative or liberal. Man or woman. It's the primary source of drinking water for EVERYBODY!

Are they speaking some alien language that us humans cannot understand? Drink your clean water and write two letters as you chug it, Rock. One to the president, asking him not to mess with the Great Lakes and/or Finger Lakes anymore. And one to thank the senators and congressmen who stopped him in his tracks the first two times.

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#1514538 --- 05/05/18 10:04 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
Eyes rolling.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514568 --- 05/07/18 10:47 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
darnedsox Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 5
Loc: fingerlakes
Would those who ran and don't like their shirts, please raise your hands. Petition the sponsors for your donation back. And, if you think politics doesn't affect the environment, you're not really paying attention. Pick up the litter in your front yard-
_________________________
"You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows"........ Robt. Zimmerman

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#1514574 --- 05/07/18 04:14 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 231
I repeat: this is a business, not a non-profit community endeavor. They give enough to charities to keep the volunteers coming, but IT'S A BUSINESS. They have carefully calculated the message that appeals to the sponsors and the runners (who pay, not donate). I'm not saying they are insincere, but they know their niche. If they lose a few Trump supporters my guess is that they sign up 10 times more who don't agree with his policies. Good business tactics.

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#1514576 --- 05/07/18 04:47 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Tacitus]
LittleKing Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 167
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I repeat: this is a business, not a non-profit community endeavor. They give enough to charities to keep the volunteers coming, but IT'S A BUSINESS. They have carefully calculated the message that appeals to the sponsors and the runners (who pay, not donate). I'm not saying they are insincere, but they know their niche. If they lose a few Trump supporters my guess is that they sign up 10 times more who don't agree with his policies. Good business tactics.


Did Jackie tell all the volunteer groups who helped along the route that it was a for profit business?

Did "the business" pick up the tab for the police agencies that had to direct traffic along the route?

What a scam.

Is this the type of "ethics" she teaches her students?

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#1514589 --- 05/08/18 07:15 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
The point here is that there shouldn't be ANY politics involved in this event. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever. It's a f'in race and politics have no business in it, regardless of your views. That's the problem with people nowadays is that we've become so enthralled in the bs that we can't even take some time to enjoy a race without someone trying to push their agenda. Just leave the crap out of it. Oh and Kells, I'll give you a lozenge.

The REAL problem with the world today, is that people prefer to bury their heads in the sand, rather than to support or take meaningful, beneficial action to counter harmful actions taken by greedy individuals and political parties.

As I said, if you don't like like it, muster the personal ambition and fortitude to do the heavy lifting that's required to establish an event that suits your own agenda.
crazy
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514590 --- 05/08/18 07:19 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: FLaker]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: FLaker
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.

If an environmentally sound Finger Lakes aren't a quintessentially 'public asset', then nothing is.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514591 --- 05/08/18 07:22 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
The point here is that there shouldn't be ANY politics involved in this event. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever. It's a f'in race and politics have no business in it, regardless of your views. That's the problem with people nowadays is that we've become so enthralled in the bs that we can't even take some time to enjoy a race without someone trying to push their agenda. Just leave the crap out of it. Oh and Kells, I'll give you a lozenge.

The point here... is that the race was established to DRAW ATTENTION to, and benefit the health of the Finger Lakes and their surrounding communities. Is that really so hard for people to understand?

If people prefer to be insulated from politics in their day-to-day lives, then they best move to the closest thing to a Libertarian country that the world has to offer. I suggest Somalia.
whistle

_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514592 --- 05/08/18 07:24 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Kells
Also, don't forget the farmers, especially the soybean farmers in this area. Trump's trade war is about to seriously crush their farms. Probably not what the locals were expecting when they lined up behind Trump. Sad.

Precisely.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514596 --- 05/08/18 09:24 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Timbo]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Finger Lakes
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: FLaker
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.


If an environmentally sound Finger Lakes aren't a quintessentially 'public asset', then nothing is.


If the environment is that important to the race directors, they should probably rethink the race concept. Road running races involving vans driving from checkpoint to checkpoint is probably the least environmentally friendly running race format out there.

Edit:

This is not meant to be an attack on the race. It's a wonderful event that draws people to the region to explore the natural beauty and participate in some commerce. It's just the decision to put that particular decisive and polarizing symbol on the race shirt seems terribly ill advised and petty.


Edited by FLaker (05/08/18 10:59 AM)

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#1514601 --- 05/08/18 05:35 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514637 --- 05/10/18 08:20 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: FLaker]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: FLaker
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: FLaker
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.

If an environmentally sound Finger Lakes aren't a quintessentially 'public asset', then nothing is.

If the environment is that important to the race directors, they should probably rethink the race concept. Road running races involving vans driving from checkpoint to checkpoint is probably the least environmentally friendly running race format out there.

Edit:

This is not meant to be an attack on the race. It's a wonderful event that draws people to the region to explore the natural beauty and participate in some commerce. It's just the decision to put that particular decisive and polarizing symbol on the race shirt seems terribly ill advised and petty.

Assuming that instead of decisive, you really meant "divisive" and polarizing, then I submit, that it is, only if you choose to take it that way. You have the right to engage in the event, and an equal right not to. Conversely, they have a right to present their event in any way they choose, if that what it takes to make the point. Trump most deservedly warrants the editorial commentary. If castrating environmental funding in order to give billionaires MASSIVE tax cuts isn't petty and ill-advised, then I don't know what is.

Sadly, some seem to be far more outraged by the manner of aggressively getting the message out, than by the actual offense itself. As for 'chase' vans... If their use results in bringing attention to the slashed funding, the greater good will have been served. It's THAT important.

I for one, support the effort, and the method.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514638 --- 05/10/18 08:26 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514645 --- 05/11/18 07:41 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Timbo]
IrieInFLX Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 4
Loc: FLX
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.


Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.


I disagree, In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.




Edited by IrieInFLX (05/11/18 09:36 AM)

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#1514651 --- 05/11/18 08:38 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Finger Lakes
Generally, it is my understanding that, whether for-profit or not-for-profit, races need to obtain and pay for municipal permits. Races generally must also pay a premium for law enforcement coverage (sometimes at overtime rates), which, depending on the event, is mandatory.

There is definitely a lack of transparency with regard to volunteers and how race proceeds are disbursed, and it's not related solely to this event. Many races are not be feasible without volunteers, and volunteers often do receive token consideration for volunteering (food, clothing, other "swag" which is often paid for by sponsors). Some volunteer organizations (generally not-for-profits) also receive payment in exchange for providing volunteers. However, it's quite evident that many volunteers walk away from for-profit events thinking they volunteered for a 100% charity function, when in actuality, a majority of the proceeds go directly to the race directors. Absolutely nothing wrong with that setup, but races should be more transparent.

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#1514679 --- 05/13/18 12:03 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: IrieInFLX
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.

I disagree, In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.

You make many accusations. Care to provide the 'offending' letter that so clearly irritates you, or should we simply take you at your rancorous opinion and say "to hell with basis or supporting evidence?"

How conveniently mercurial, your high standards of "journalistic integrity" are when applied to your own statements.
whistle



_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514683 --- 05/13/18 08:25 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
Sam the Sham Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 683
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: IrieInFLX
In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.


The Times seems to be getting increasing insular, what with one columnist (Mitchell) allowed to attack potential business rivals such as the restaurants at the casino, another (Augustine) being allowed to defend/to promote her business and yet a third (Fitzgerald) allowed to write more or less the same column every week about a region not normally covered by the paper (Watkins Glen), in order to shill his fiction books.

The thing about a "non-profit" is that it can pay little, or no, taxes and still pay its directors an extremely generous salary.

The directors of the Seneca7 had better hope the volunteers and law enforcement agencies around the lake have short memories and forget this controversy by next year. I could see a few groups pull out to avoid participating in a "political" event.

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#1514700 --- 05/14/18 01:35 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
In case any of you didn't know, Timbo got a thesaurus recently. Hey, can you look up any similar words for douche?

Always entertaining watching the illiterate attempt to compensate for their shortcomings by attacking those who aren't.

Clearly, I'M not the one in need of a thesaurus. But without looking, I'd bet that there are far MORE synonyms for the word ignoramus.
cool
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514701 --- 05/14/18 01:56 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Sam the Sham]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Sam the Sham
Originally Posted By: IrieInFLX
In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.

The Times seems to be getting increasing insular, what with one columnist (Mitchell) allowed to attack potential business rivals such as the restaurants at the casino, another (Augustine) being allowed to defend/to promote her business and yet a third (Fitzgerald) allowed to write more or less the same column every week about a region not normally covered by the paper (Watkins Glen), in order to shill his fiction books.

The thing about a "non-profit" is that it can pay little, or no, taxes and still pay its directors an extremely generous salary.

The directors of the Seneca7 had better hope the volunteers and law enforcement agencies around the lake have short memories and forget this controversy by next year. I could see a few groups pull out to avoid participating in a "political" event.

You should do your homework. Watkins Glen is one of the specific areas covered regularly in the newspaper's distribution market. Furthermore, if meaningful, concise editorials are sent for consideration, the editors will likely print it.

What with all your pent-up acrimony, you'd be the perfect candidate to write your own insightful, print-worthy rebuttal. But, then again, it's probably just WAY easier to wank about it anonymously on some internet forum, instead.

The only smug or insular things going on around here, are all the snivelers complaining about a subject that they're too lazy to actually do something about. So, stop kvetching and write a well-reasoned letter to the editor.


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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514705 --- 05/14/18 02:36 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY

Since no one else can be bothered to get their facts straight, allow me...


From the Finger Lakes Times:
"Q: A Times reader emailed with the following question Monday: What is the meaning behind the burning flag and what looks like an anti-Trump picture on the race shirts that were the official race shirt of the Seneca7?

A: We went to the organizers of the event, Jackie Augustine and Jeff Henderson, for an answer.

First of all, Augustine replied with, ďI can say right up front that nothing on the shirt is burning!Ē

They later issued a joint statement regarding the shirts:

ďWeíre surprised that this image, which has been on our website for over a month and received zero complaints, created such a social media firestorm in the past two days. We guess these days everyone wants to shout a political message over social media; we just choose not to.

ďIf taken in the context of the course guide and shirt design, it is clear that each symbol represents some element of the race, which has been focused on environmental protection, principles of zero waste, and Seneca Lake water quality from day one. Our finisher bottle for the first year included advocacy information from Gas Free Seneca, and weíve focused on issues affecting our region every year since.

ďFor the past two years, the current administration has proposed funding cuts for the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative (this yearís proposal would have cut it by 90 percent) and it has taken bipartisan support in the House and Senate to get the funding restored. Local agencies receive monies from these sources to control invasive species in our Finger Lakes, and we are all better for it.

ďIf taken out of context, we guess people could think weíre taking a stand against mocking the disabled, running around with adult entertainers, bragging about sexual assault, or vilifying people from other countries. So be it. We set out eight years ago to produce an event that upholds our values and we are sticking to that.Ē"


From another article:
"The race itself has evolved into a major local platform for charitable giving, with more than $67,000 of donations made to more than 40 charities since 2011, according to race coordinator Jeff Henderson."
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#1514706 --- 05/14/18 02:43 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
This is a profit-making event for her and her boyfriend. People come from all over to participate. Sponsors want their brand in front of those people. Doubtful that any backlash (however well-deserved) will be effective.

Do you have any actual evidence, or are you just committing libel?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514707 --- 05/14/18 02:49 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I repeat: this is a business, not a non-profit community endeavor. They give enough to charities to keep the volunteers coming, but IT'S A BUSINESS. They have carefully calculated the message that appeals to the sponsors and the runners (who pay, not donate). I'm not saying they are insincere, but they know their niche. If they lose a few Trump supporters my guess is that they sign up 10 times more who don't agree with his policies. Good business tactics.

Again... WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE? whistle
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514709 --- 05/14/18 03:13 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 231
The organization in question is not a non-profit, just look up their EIN. Or, better yet, Timbo, go ask them for a P & L statement for the race, I doubt if you'll get one.

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#1514710 --- 05/14/18 04:16 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Sam the Sham Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 683
Loc: USA
At Timbo's urging to research things, I went to the NYS Corporation database and was unable to find any listing for "Seneca7" or "One Million Revolutions" (the organization holding the copyright on the Seneca7 website) as a Not For Profit Corporation.

Maybe I was using the site incorrectly. If Timbo, or anyone else, wants to post a link showing their incorporation papers, 501(c)(3) filing or similar documents, I'd appreciate it.

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#1514711 --- 05/14/18 04:37 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY

Lack of evidence doesn't magically qualify as evidence. Additionally, I'm not the one making assertions. You are, and by extension, the onus falls upon YOU to provide the supporting evidence.

Debate 101, my friend.

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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514712 --- 05/14/18 04:44 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Sam the Sham]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Sam the Sham
At Timbo's urging to research things, I went to the NYS Corporation database and was unable to find any listing for "Seneca7" or "One Million Revolutions" (the organization holding the copyright on the Seneca7 website) as a Not For Profit Corporation.

Maybe I was using the site incorrectly. If Timbo, or anyone else, wants to post a link showing their incorporation papers, 501(c)(3) filing or similar documents, I'd appreciate it.


As would I.

I also checked the database for a few that I know for a fact are active and got a "no results" reply.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514719 --- 05/14/18 06:33 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 231
OK - so it's a profit making entity. I don't have a problem with that, I never did. I just object to those who assume all of their motives are charitable.

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#1514724 --- 05/14/18 07:46 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 116
Loc: new york state
So lets just keep bitching about it and drive the people who do all the work to a point where they say screw it, lets not even bother with this. A few people bust their A@S getting this event up and running. It brings people from many places to our area and they spend a little money here too. Its almost impossible to even get signed up for this event because it sells out in less than an hour. But hey Geneva..... lets do what we always do: bring it to a screeching halt and be rid of it, like we do and have done with so many other things here in this town. That s what we re best at..... stopping things from happening here. And you wonder why the young folks are graduating high school and leaving? Stop your bitching!

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#1514725 --- 05/14/18 11:28 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
OK - so it's a profit making entity.

That has NOT been established.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514732 --- 05/15/18 08:18 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Timbo]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1341
Loc: N.Y.
300 teams at $527 each equals $158,100 all volunteer workers no overhead and about $10,000 donated a year not a bad little profit.

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#1514733 --- 05/15/18 08:33 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Sam the Sham]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: Sam the Sham
The directors of the Seneca7 had better hope the volunteers and law enforcement agencies around the lake have short memories and forget this controversy by next year. I could see a few groups pull out to avoid participating in a "political" event.


I think you may be underestimating the professionalism of law enforcement in our region. They don't "pull out" of providing safety at events because the events are political. Law enforcement, it may surprise you to know, actually provide their services at events that are purely political. Like political conventions, even. And white supremacist marches.

Law enforcement aren't actually volunteering their time for any of these events - they are providing a valuable service at a premium rate, often overtime rates, which events must pay as part of the permitting process. Thus, they can afford to be apolitical, and not "pull out" of events because they disagree with a flag on a t-shirt.

As for volunteers, it is true that there may be some die-hard Trump lovers who would prioritize their love for Trump over all else. I think that number is growing smaller every day, though.


Edited by Kells (05/15/18 08:36 AM)

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#1514734 --- 05/15/18 08:42 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: tubby]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: tubby
300 teams at $527 each equals $158,100 all volunteer workers no overhead and about $10,000 donated a year not a bad little profit.


Your math sucks.

Still, I would like to read your analysis on these events impact on the local economy next. Please continue with the #tubbymath.

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#1514735 --- 05/15/18 08:45 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: roundtable]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: roundtable
So lets just keep bitching about it and drive the people who do all the work to a point where they say screw it, lets not even bother with this. A few people bust their A@S getting this event up and running. It brings people from many places to our area and they spend a little money here too. Its almost impossible to even get signed up for this event because it sells out in less than an hour. But hey Geneva..... lets do what we always do: bring it to a screeching halt and be rid of it, like we do and have done with so many other things here in this town. That s what we re best at..... stopping things from happening here. And you wonder why the young folks are graduating high school and leaving? Stop your bitching!


I've been saying this for years... if you only came to the FingerLakes1.com forums you would think Geneva and the surrounding area was against these events, and you might wonder why anything takes place here. Actually get out and GO to the events, though, and you'll be caught up in the spirit of them. Get out and volunteer at some of these, and you won't be sorry!

The disgruntlement that has become much of these forums is NOT easily found out in the community.

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#1514737 --- 05/15/18 09:16 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 116
Loc: new york state
Kells... you are correct. Ive participated in the event for several years. Ive had friends come here from out of town to run as well. Its a great event and it must take a ton of planning on the planners part. Why do these sedentary folks who get on their computers and spew negative thoughts even care about it. I would agree..... most of them probably dont really know what its like to be a part of this event..... they just bitch and complain. However..... I ve noticed this happens for almost every thing that tries to happen here from way back..... back before the forums. Resist any change that may brighten our city in any way or even bring people here to boost our economy..... As I said prior.... its what Geneva does best.

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#1514738 --- 05/15/18 09:30 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: roundtable]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1341
Loc: N.Y.
I have volunteered at one of the exchange points for the past three years and agree it is a great event for the area my reply was to Timbo merely stating that it is definitely for profit.

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#1514739 --- 05/15/18 10:12 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: tubby]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: tubby
I have volunteered at one of the exchange points for the past three years and agree it is a great event for the area my reply was to Timbo merely stating that it is definitely for profit.


Well, then, here's something you'll rarely see on this forum... my apologies then. Volunteering is awesome!

The 'no overhead' though, leaves out the many things events are required to pay for, like permits, venue rentals, law enforcement OT pay, and more. I'm sure that many of these events can be very profitable, but there are many around the country that don't make it to the next year because organizers couldn't figure out how to turn a profit.

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#1514740 --- 05/15/18 10:17 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: roundtable]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: roundtable
Kells... you are correct. Ive participated in the event for several years. Ive had friends come here from out of town to run as well. Its a great event and it must take a ton of planning on the planners part. Why do these sedentary folks who get on their computers and spew negative thoughts even care about it. I would agree..... most of them probably dont really know what its like to be a part of this event..... they just bitch and complain. However..... I ve noticed this happens for almost every thing that tries to happen here from way back..... back before the forums. Resist any change that may brighten our city in any way or even bring people here to boost our economy..... As I said prior.... its what Geneva does best.


My grandfather used to tell me that Geneva was made up of two camps: those who were for, and those who were against. "Against what, Grandpa?" "Against anything and everything."

Not much has changed in all these years, it seems. At least the 'against' crowd seem to stick to themselves and complain in a group while the 'for' folks do their thing.

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#1514741 --- 05/15/18 11:14 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 10899
Loc: Above ground
I see a valid point from both sides but therein lies a problem, tell us who's right or wrong from either perspective? Any entity or faction can make their case but sometimes, we tend to overlook or even care to understand the opposing views we deem as "being negative" I've post an old article concerning the infamous Whale Watch of yesteryear. Several years before it's demise, many sought to keep it going at any cost...literally, at the expense of Geneva's residence, agreed or disagreed. I've come to Geneva for several consecutive years to attend the Afro American fest but the event planners are often discouraged due to restrictions from ie. the city or some residents not mentioned in other events. I love your car shows but find it astounding that one can be arrested for public intoxication based on law but in another vein, barricades can be erected and you can drink publicly at your heart content. So as you've mention, there are the planners and the naysayers but tell us why must either side always be relegated to being "the good guy or bad?", seeing that rules and regulations are set forth at the discretion of the powers that be.

http://www.fltimes.com/news/no-more-whale-watch/article_ffc7769b-eb28-5070-a6a8-b36d3bb70c75.html

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