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#1514512 --- 05/04/18 02:38 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Blue_man]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: Blue_man
Considering the race runs through a number of "conservative" counties (Ontario, Yates, Schuyler, Seneca) and relies on volunteers who reside in those counties, I'm not sure I'd want to be offending Republicans


There are conservatives, and there are Trump conservatives. There are still a lot of very fine people in Ontario, Yates, Schuyler, and Seneca counties who are Republican but are disgusted with their party for putting a serial adulterer, [xxxxx]-grabbing, swindling, bigot in the Oval Office.

Sure, some will put their love for Trump over everything. But let's not lump all conservatives with the same Trump-stained brush - some of them care about things like the environment and the health of these lakes, and I doubt this t-shirt offended them too much.


Edited by Kells (05/04/18 02:40 PM)

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#1514513 --- 05/04/18 02:43 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Also, don't forget the farmers, especially the soybean farmers in this area. Trump's trade war is about to seriously crush their farms. Probably not what the locals were expecting when they lined up behind Trump. Sad.

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#1514516 --- 05/04/18 03:23 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
FLaker and Blue_man got it right. This isn't about politics! Am I speaking some alien language that us humans cannot understand. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER WHERE YOUR POLITICAL COMPASS POINTS! It has nothing to do with the race at all. Trump fan or not. Conservative or liberal. Man or woman. It's a race for EVERYBODY!


Edited by rock 963 (05/04/18 03:23 PM)
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514534 --- 05/05/18 07:39 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Kells Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 111
Originally Posted By: rock 963
This isn't about politics! Am I speaking some alien language that us humans cannot understand. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER WHERE YOUR POLITICAL COMPASS POINTS! It has nothing to do with the race at all. Trump fan or not. Conservative or liberal. Man or woman. It's a race for EVERYBODY!


Now you're getting it. It isn't about politics. It is about the environment. Specifically the environment of the Finger Lakes, and Seneca Lake in particular. Trump's 99% cuts to it would be devastating for all of us. Trump fan or not. Conservative or liberal. Man or woman. It's the primary source of drinking water for EVERYBODY!

Are they speaking some alien language that us humans cannot understand? Drink your clean water and write two letters as you chug it, Rock. One to the president, asking him not to mess with the Great Lakes and/or Finger Lakes anymore. And one to thank the senators and congressmen who stopped him in his tracks the first two times.

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#1514538 --- 05/05/18 10:04 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
Eyes rolling.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514568 --- 05/07/18 10:47 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
darnedsox Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 5
Loc: fingerlakes
Would those who ran and don't like their shirts, please raise your hands. Petition the sponsors for your donation back. And, if you think politics doesn't affect the environment, you're not really paying attention. Pick up the litter in your front yard-
_________________________
"You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows"........ Robt. Zimmerman

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#1514574 --- 05/07/18 04:14 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 231
I repeat: this is a business, not a non-profit community endeavor. They give enough to charities to keep the volunteers coming, but IT'S A BUSINESS. They have carefully calculated the message that appeals to the sponsors and the runners (who pay, not donate). I'm not saying they are insincere, but they know their niche. If they lose a few Trump supporters my guess is that they sign up 10 times more who don't agree with his policies. Good business tactics.

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#1514576 --- 05/07/18 04:47 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Tacitus]
LittleKing Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 167
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I repeat: this is a business, not a non-profit community endeavor. They give enough to charities to keep the volunteers coming, but IT'S A BUSINESS. They have carefully calculated the message that appeals to the sponsors and the runners (who pay, not donate). I'm not saying they are insincere, but they know their niche. If they lose a few Trump supporters my guess is that they sign up 10 times more who don't agree with his policies. Good business tactics.


Did Jackie tell all the volunteer groups who helped along the route that it was a for profit business?

Did "the business" pick up the tab for the police agencies that had to direct traffic along the route?

What a scam.

Is this the type of "ethics" she teaches her students?

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#1514589 --- 05/08/18 07:15 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
The point here is that there shouldn't be ANY politics involved in this event. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever. It's a f'in race and politics have no business in it, regardless of your views. That's the problem with people nowadays is that we've become so enthralled in the bs that we can't even take some time to enjoy a race without someone trying to push their agenda. Just leave the crap out of it. Oh and Kells, I'll give you a lozenge.

The REAL problem with the world today, is that people prefer to bury their heads in the sand, rather than to support or take meaningful, beneficial action to counter harmful actions taken by greedy individuals and political parties.

As I said, if you don't like like it, muster the personal ambition and fortitude to do the heavy lifting that's required to establish an event that suits your own agenda.
crazy
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514590 --- 05/08/18 07:19 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: FLaker]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: FLaker
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.

If an environmentally sound Finger Lakes aren't a quintessentially 'public asset', then nothing is.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514591 --- 05/08/18 07:22 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
The point here is that there shouldn't be ANY politics involved in this event. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever. It's a f'in race and politics have no business in it, regardless of your views. That's the problem with people nowadays is that we've become so enthralled in the bs that we can't even take some time to enjoy a race without someone trying to push their agenda. Just leave the crap out of it. Oh and Kells, I'll give you a lozenge.

The point here... is that the race was established to DRAW ATTENTION to, and benefit the health of the Finger Lakes and their surrounding communities. Is that really so hard for people to understand?

If people prefer to be insulated from politics in their day-to-day lives, then they best move to the closest thing to a Libertarian country that the world has to offer. I suggest Somalia.
whistle

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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514592 --- 05/08/18 07:24 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Kells]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Kells
Also, don't forget the farmers, especially the soybean farmers in this area. Trump's trade war is about to seriously crush their farms. Probably not what the locals were expecting when they lined up behind Trump. Sad.

Precisely.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514596 --- 05/08/18 09:24 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Timbo]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Finger Lakes
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: FLaker
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.


If an environmentally sound Finger Lakes aren't a quintessentially 'public asset', then nothing is.


If the environment is that important to the race directors, they should probably rethink the race concept. Road running races involving vans driving from checkpoint to checkpoint is probably the least environmentally friendly running race format out there.

Edit:

This is not meant to be an attack on the race. It's a wonderful event that draws people to the region to explore the natural beauty and participate in some commerce. It's just the decision to put that particular decisive and polarizing symbol on the race shirt seems terribly ill advised and petty.


Edited by FLaker (05/08/18 10:59 AM)

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#1514601 --- 05/08/18 05:35 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: newsman38]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Geneva, NY
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1514637 --- 05/10/18 08:20 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: FLaker]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: FLaker
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: FLaker
It's disappointing to me because, as I understand it, this race was created in conjunction with Hobart and William Smith students to invite and welcome people to the Finger Lakes. Some people walked away from the race and the region unnecessarily disappointed and offended. If a race is advertised as a public asset, treat it as such.

If an environmentally sound Finger Lakes aren't a quintessentially 'public asset', then nothing is.

If the environment is that important to the race directors, they should probably rethink the race concept. Road running races involving vans driving from checkpoint to checkpoint is probably the least environmentally friendly running race format out there.

Edit:

This is not meant to be an attack on the race. It's a wonderful event that draws people to the region to explore the natural beauty and participate in some commerce. It's just the decision to put that particular decisive and polarizing symbol on the race shirt seems terribly ill advised and petty.

Assuming that instead of decisive, you really meant "divisive" and polarizing, then I submit, that it is, only if you choose to take it that way. You have the right to engage in the event, and an equal right not to. Conversely, they have a right to present their event in any way they choose, if that what it takes to make the point. Trump most deservedly warrants the editorial commentary. If castrating environmental funding in order to give billionaires MASSIVE tax cuts isn't petty and ill-advised, then I don't know what is.

Sadly, some seem to be far more outraged by the manner of aggressively getting the message out, than by the actual offense itself. As for 'chase' vans... If their use results in bringing attention to the slashed funding, the greater good will have been served. It's THAT important.

I for one, support the effort, and the method.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514638 --- 05/10/18 08:26 PM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514645 --- 05/11/18 07:41 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: Timbo]
IrieInFLX Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 4
Loc: FLX
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.


Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.


I disagree, In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.




Edited by IrieInFLX (05/11/18 09:36 AM)

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#1514651 --- 05/11/18 08:38 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Finger Lakes
Generally, it is my understanding that, whether for-profit or not-for-profit, races need to obtain and pay for municipal permits. Races generally must also pay a premium for law enforcement coverage (sometimes at overtime rates), which, depending on the event, is mandatory.

There is definitely a lack of transparency with regard to volunteers and how race proceeds are disbursed, and it's not related solely to this event. Many races are not be feasible without volunteers, and volunteers often do receive token consideration for volunteering (food, clothing, other "swag" which is often paid for by sponsors). Some volunteer organizations (generally not-for-profits) also receive payment in exchange for providing volunteers. However, it's quite evident that many volunteers walk away from for-profit events thinking they volunteered for a 100% charity function, when in actuality, a majority of the proceeds go directly to the race directors. Absolutely nothing wrong with that setup, but races should be more transparent.

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#1514679 --- 05/13/18 12:03 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14278
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: IrieInFLX
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: rock 963
All I'm saying is that this race doesn't have to be political and the event organizer(s) seemed to have made it that way. My question is why? It's a race.

Actually, It's a race benefiting the region's environment. BIG difference.

I disagree, In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.

You make many accusations. Care to provide the 'offending' letter that so clearly irritates you, or should we simply take you at your rancorous opinion and say "to hell with basis or supporting evidence?"

How conveniently mercurial, your high standards of "journalistic integrity" are when applied to your own statements.
whistle



_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1514683 --- 05/13/18 08:25 AM Re: Anti-Trump Seneca7 shirt controversy [Re: IrieInFLX]
Sam the Sham Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 683
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: IrieInFLX
In my opinion, it appears to be a race benefiting the directorís pocket book on the backs of tax payers and volunteers under the guise of benefitting the regions environment.

The smug response from J.A. in the Finger Lakes Times sealed my opinion. Sadly, instead of practicing journalistic integrity, FLT gave their crony a free pass and once again another outlet for J.A. to spew her garbage (as if every other week isnít enough).

Hypocrisy and surreptitiousness is where I take issue. If itís truly to raise awareness and benefit our environment, make it non-profit. If itís a for profit business, great, but donít narcissistically portray it as a gift to the region.

Iíd be interested to know what amount in taxes were paid by this event.


The Times seems to be getting increasing insular, what with one columnist (Mitchell) allowed to attack potential business rivals such as the restaurants at the casino, another (Augustine) being allowed to defend/to promote her business and yet a third (Fitzgerald) allowed to write more or less the same column every week about a region not normally covered by the paper (Watkins Glen), in order to shill his fiction books.

The thing about a "non-profit" is that it can pay little, or no, taxes and still pay its directors an extremely generous salary.

The directors of the Seneca7 had better hope the volunteers and law enforcement agencies around the lake have short memories and forget this controversy by next year. I could see a few groups pull out to avoid participating in a "political" event.

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