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#1481296 --- 01/30/16 11:39 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Rather than start a Formermac Tangent thread

need not worry

I created the 'walk the walk' thread in the great debate section for that purpose

if another poster runs off topic just move any further discussion there

... and the "T-Baller" takes a swing and misses!

'Ts OK blue, everybody's a winner on these forums!
grin
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#1481450 --- 02/05/16 08:15 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
dwarren Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1542
Loc: West Seneca, NY
Updated material on UCE's appeal of Judge Kahn's March 26, 2015 land-into-trust decision to the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit is available at: http://www.upstate-citizens.org/UCE-v-United-States.htm

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#1481569 --- 02/10/16 12:55 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: dwarren]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY

The UCE's recent anti-Indian efforts are most ironic. Especially when considering the true historical context relating to ACTUAL "constitutional rights", "law" and "privilege". crazy

Equally as ironic, is that the very same laws created to further subjugate indigenous peoples, are yet, simultaneously, legally and utterly unenforceable.
whistle
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#1481577 --- 02/10/16 08:45 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Did you give your land back yet?

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#1481597 --- 02/11/16 02:54 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Did you give your land back yet?

'Still believe in might-over-right??? eek
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#1481600 --- 02/11/16 04:30 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Did you give your land back yet?

'Still believe in might-over-right??? eek
I believe in the might of America whose strong military have allowed us to create the greatest nation in the history of the world and where all its citizens are to be treated equally regardless of where their ancestors came from.

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#1481608 --- 02/11/16 07:58 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Did you give your land back yet?
'Still believe in might-over-right??? eek
I believe in the might of America whose strong military have allowed us to create the greatest nation in the history of the world and where all its citizens are to be treated equally regardless of where their ancestors came from.

Then you clearly need a refresher in US history, It's Constitutional principals and intent, as well as the primary obligation of ALL sworn service members to UPHOLD that same Constitution., even in the face of unlawful military orders. Refusal to abide by US and international treaty is incontrovertibly UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Oneida Indian-New York gaming deal is clearly ONE of those instances. Defined specifically by those very laws, the US is also guilty of committing crimes against humanity as well as genocide. A fact that also, under US law, renders any related agreements or treaties with the US, patently null-and-void. This includes the same state land deal that you mistakenly believe, somehow carries weight. Furthermore, even if that were NOT the case, there simply exists no governmental process with which to enforce these illegal laws/rulings. Like it or not.

For someone who claims to stand for "equality under the law" your position on this issue consistantly has a decidedly UN-equal racial component to it. Especially evidenced by the fact that whenever confronted with the actual laws laid down by these same European Invaders, you simply change the subject to avoid the fact that any such ruling against the indigenous peoples IS legally and utterly unenforceable. whistle

But hey... don't let uncontestable facts stand in the way of your own glaring hypocrisy.

Not that your previous two post have anything whatsoever to do with this thread.
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#1481619 --- 02/11/16 11:50 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Then you clearly need a refresher in US history, It's Constitutional principals and intent, as well as the primary obligation of ALL sworn service members to UPHOLD that same Constitution., even in the face of unlawful military orders. Refusal to abide by US and international treaty is incontrovertibly UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Oneida Indian-New York gaming deal is clearly ONE of those instances. Defined specifically by those very laws, the US is also guilty of committing crimes against humanity as well as genocide. A fact that also, under US law, renders any related agreements or treaties with the US, patently null-and-void. This includes the same state land deal that you mistakenly believe, somehow carries weight. Furthermore, even if that were NOT the case, there simply exists no governmental process with which to enforce these illegal laws/rulings. Like it or not.
All fourteen elected members of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors believe the Native Americans in this area should pay all sales taxes and property taxes the same as all other American citizens. As do all members of the Cayuga County Legislature. All NY state assemblymen and senators in this area believe that also. I wouldn't doubt but every assemblyperson and senator in upstate NY does also. So you are saying they all need a refresher course in US History? Ya right.

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#1481620 --- 02/11/16 11:53 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
For someone who claims to stand for "equality under the law" your position on this issue consistantly has a decidedly UN-equal racial component to it.
So all of our local and state elected officials I mentioned above are racists just like me? Wow

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#1481629 --- 02/11/16 01:32 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
For someone who claims to stand for "equality under the law" your position on this issue consistantly has a decidedly UN-equal racial component to it.
So all of our local and state elected officials I mentioned above are racists just like me? Wow

There you go yet again, putting words in the mouths of others.

I'm not saying that you're a racist. I'm saying that you're a hypocrite.
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#1481630 --- 02/11/16 01:36 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Then you clearly need a refresher in US history, It's Constitutional principals and intent, as well as the primary obligation of ALL sworn service members to UPHOLD that same Constitution., even in the face of unlawful military orders. Refusal to abide by US and international treaty is incontrovertibly UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Oneida Indian-New York gaming deal is clearly ONE of those instances. Defined specifically by those very laws, the US is also guilty of committing crimes against humanity as well as genocide. A fact that also, under US law, renders any related agreements or treaties with the US, patently null-and-void. This includes the same state land deal that you mistakenly believe, somehow carries weight. Furthermore, even if that were NOT the case, there simply exists no governmental process with which to enforce these illegal laws/rulings. Like it or not.
All fourteen elected members of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors believe the Native Americans in this area should pay all sales taxes and property taxes the same as all other American citizens. As do all members of the Cayuga County Legislature. All NY state assemblymen and senators in this area believe that also. I wouldn't doubt but every assemblyperson and senator in upstate NY does also. So you are saying they all need a refresher course in US History? Ya right.

So you're saying that six million Nazis can't be wrong???
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-79836.html

Yeah, RIGHT! crazy crazy crazy
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#1481634 --- 02/11/16 02:00 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
For someone who claims to stand for "equality under the law" your position on this issue consistantly has a decidedly UN-equal racial component to it.
So all of our local and state elected officials I mentioned above are racists just like me? Wow
There you go yet again, putting words in the mouths of others.

I'm not saying that you're a racist. I'm saying that you're a hypocrite.
So you are saying that all these elected officials I mentioned are hypocrites?

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#1481637 --- 02/11/16 02:04 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Then you clearly need a refresher in US history, It's Constitutional principals and intent, as well as the primary obligation of ALL sworn service members to UPHOLD that same Constitution., even in the face of unlawful military orders. Refusal to abide by US and international treaty is incontrovertibly UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Oneida Indian-New York gaming deal is clearly ONE of those instances. Defined specifically by those very laws, the US is also guilty of committing crimes against humanity as well as genocide. A fact that also, under US law, renders any related agreements or treaties with the US, patently null-and-void. This includes the same state land deal that you mistakenly believe, somehow carries weight. Furthermore, even if that were NOT the case, there simply exists no governmental process with which to enforce these illegal laws/rulings. Like it or not.
All fourteen elected members of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors believe the Native Americans in this area should pay all sales taxes and property taxes the same as all other American citizens. As do all members of the Cayuga County Legislature. All NY state assemblymen and senators in this area believe that also. I wouldn't doubt but every assemblyperson and senator in upstate NY does also. So you are saying they all need a refresher course in US History? Ya right.
size:11pt]So you're saying that six million Nazis can't be wrong???[/size]http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-79836.html Yeah, RIGHT! crazy crazy crazy
Only a small number of Nazis were believers. The rest were just following orders or upset that Germany lost WWI. I am concerned about the same thing if Trump got to be president.

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#1481638 --- 02/11/16 02:06 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Then you clearly need a refresher in US history, It's Constitutional principals and intent, as well as the primary obligation of ALL sworn service members to UPHOLD that same Constitution., even in the face of unlawful military orders. Refusal to abide by US and international treaty is incontrovertibly UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Oneida Indian-New York gaming deal is clearly ONE of those instances. Defined specifically by those very laws, the US is also guilty of committing crimes against humanity as well as genocide. A fact that also, under US law, renders any related agreements or treaties with the US, patently null-and-void. This includes the same state land deal that you mistakenly believe, somehow carries weight. Furthermore, even if that were NOT the case, there simply exists no governmental process with which to enforce these illegal laws/rulings. Like it or not.
All fourteen elected members of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors believe the Native Americans in this area should pay all sales taxes and property taxes the same as all other American citizens. As do all members of the Cayuga County Legislature. All NY state assemblymen and senators in this area believe that also. I wouldn't doubt but every assemblyperson and senator in upstate NY does also. So you are saying they all need a refresher course in US History? Ya right.

So you're saying that six million Nazis can't be wrong???
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-79836.html

Yeah, RIGHT! crazy crazy crazy
So you are saying that all these elected officials I mentioned are wrong and don't understand the constitution? Even though they took an oath to defend it?

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#1481639 --- 02/11/16 02:48 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
For someone who claims to stand for "equality under the law" your position on this issue consistantly has a decidedly UN-equal racial component to it.
So all of our local and state elected officials I mentioned above are racists just like me? Wow
There you go yet again, putting words in the mouths of others.

I'm not saying that you're a racist. I'm saying that you're a hypocrite.
So you are saying that all these elected officials I mentioned are hypocrites?

I'm saying that The Constitution and International law (both equally binding under law) expressly state that any Treaty, Law, Agreement. Accord or Ruling established under direct or threat of force, coercion or duress are illegal and therefore non-binding and unenforcible. Feel free to label it what you will.
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#1481640 --- 02/11/16 02:54 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Only a small number of Nazis were believers. The rest were just following orders or upset that Germany lost WWI. I am concerned about the same thing if Trump got to be president.

Don't be obtuse.

The point is... that what's "just" is not effected by the number of those who subscribe to that which is not (contrary to your post that suggests otherwise).

It also suffers a complete deficit of logic by being totally irrelevant to the argument. crazy
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#1481643 --- 02/11/16 03:28 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
For someone who claims to stand for "equality under the law" your position on this issue consistantly has a decidedly UN-equal racial component to it.
So all of our local and state elected officials I mentioned above are racists just like me? Wow
There you go yet again, putting words in the mouths of others. I'm not saying that you're a racist. I'm saying that you're a hypocrite.
So you are saying that all these elected officials I mentioned are hypocrites?
I'm saying that The Constitution and International law (both equally binding under law) expressly state that any Treaty, Law, Agreement. Accord or Ruling established under direct or threat of force, coercion or duress are illegal and therefore non-binding and unenforcible. Feel free to label it what you will.
Unfortunately I feel quite confident this will never ever be settled to anyone's satisfaction and this Native American mess will go on forever. frown

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#1481645 --- 02/11/16 03:35 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Unfortunately I feel quite confident this will never ever be settled to anyone's satisfaction...
Easily predictable results when committing atrocities upon millions of original, indigenous inhabitants as has been done in this case. frown
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#1481646 --- 02/11/16 03:45 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 17101
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Unfortunately I feel quite confident this will never ever be settled to anyone's satisfaction...
Easily predictable results when committing atrocities upon millions of original, indigenous inhabitants as has been done in this case. frown
That all happened hundreds of years ago and it will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction. frown

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#1481649 --- 02/11/16 04:14 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14149
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Unfortunately I feel quite confident this will never ever be settled to anyone's satisfaction...
Easily predictable results when committing atrocities upon millions of original, indigenous inhabitants as has been done in this case. frown
That all happened hundreds of years ago and it will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction. frown

Even if that were true (and it's categorically NOT), There is no statute of limitations for acts of Genocide or other Crimes Against Humanity. Otherwise, there wouldn't be 94 year old Nazi prison guards being tried for such crimes, as we speak.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/europe/germany-auschwitz-guard-trial/

Try telling Jewish holocaust survivors that there's no satisfaction in the capture, prosecution, conviction and reparations carried out during The Nuremberg trials. crazy

https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Nuremberg_trials.html

Your desperate rationalizations fail on each and every front, my "friend".
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