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#1488868 --- 08/25/16 11:24 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
If NYS would pass the law requiring tribes to have sovereignty over the land to call it a reservation; sales tax laws would be enforceable in Seneca & Cayuga Counties.

The states have ZERO legal authority to do so.

Federal law explicitly prevents that.
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#1488884 --- 08/26/16 06:16 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
If NYS would pass the law requiring tribes to have sovereignty over the land to call it a reservation; sales tax laws would be enforceable in Seneca & Cayuga Counties.

The states have ZERO legal authority to do so.


better tell halftown to call obama about the PILOT he wants from the county... whistle

Originally Posted By: Timbo
Federal law explicitly prevents that.


Quote:
In its legal arguments, the Seneca Nation "expressly acknowledges that, as a general principle, New York State has the authority to require reservation retailers to collect excise taxes on sales to non-Indians," Arcara wrote.


Quote:
Court sides with Sherrill
Supreme Court justices rule 8-1
Oneida Nation must pay tax to city
Wed, Mar 30, 2005
R. PATRICK CORBETT Observer-Dispatch

The Oneida Indian Nation must pay taxes on its property in the city of Sherrill and potentially on all land it has bought outside of its 32-acre reservation in Madison County, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Tuesday . In an 8-1 decision, the court ruled that the New York Oneidas cannot disrupt two centuries of local development by refusing to pay local taxes on a gas station and T-shirt factory it owns in Sherrill in Oneida County. New York City lawyer Ira Sacks, who pleaded Sherrill's case pro bono, said, "We were very pleased. The Supreme Court agreed with the principal argument that after 200 years ... the Oneida Indian Nation can't pick and choose places to buy and take it out of local jurisdiction." The justices also remarked on the "distinctly non-Indian character of the area and its inhabitants," because most Oneida Indians moved out of the area about 150 years ago.


Federal Law
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#1488990 --- 08/29/16 07:24 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
If NYS would pass the law requiring tribes to have sovereignty over the land to call it a reservation; sales tax laws would be enforceable in Seneca & Cayuga Counties.

The states have ZERO legal authority to do so.

Federal law explicitly prevents that.

State law defines a state reservation and the Cayuga have none. Federal law only applies to reservations.

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#1488991 --- 08/29/16 08:43 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
If NYS would pass the law requiring tribes to have sovereignty over the land to call it a reservation; sales tax laws would be enforceable in Seneca & Cayuga Counties.

The states have ZERO legal authority to do so.

Federal law explicitly prevents that.

State law defines a state reservation and the Cayuga have none. Federal law only applies to reservations.

And as is repeatedly pointed out out, There is NO mechanism in place, in which to enforce tax payment. None, Zero, Zilch. Not now, not upon the state playing games of litigation, not ever. Any such power rests solely with the Federal Government. And even then, it would be almost impossible to legally justify, even under rules of commerce.

That's what happens when you violently force into submission, a whole "racial" class of natives as "protected" wards, while at the same time, trying to shirk the responsibility of governorship.

Hell, UCE can't even come up with sound estimates of facts relating to the issue of the Cayuga land claims, why should your assessments be any different?

"In the 205 years the Cayuga Indians have been paid 1.63 million dollars. Factoring reasonable interest and inflation these payments have a current equivalent value somewhere between 150 million - 1 billion dollars."


Edited by Timbo (08/29/16 09:02 AM)
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#1488993 --- 08/29/16 08:52 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
DR. D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 6477
Loc: Waterloo/Seneca Falls/Junius/T...
Originally Posted By: Timbo

That's what happens when you violently force into submission, a whole "racial" class....


Extremely true

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#1488999 --- 08/29/16 10:31 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
If NYS would pass the law requiring tribes to have sovereignty over the land to call it a reservation; sales tax laws would be enforceable in Seneca & Cayuga Counties.

The states have ZERO legal authority to do so.

Federal law explicitly prevents that.

State law defines a state reservation and the Cayuga have none. Federal law only applies to reservations.

And as is repeatedly pointed out out, There is NO mechanism in place, in which to enforce tax payment. None, Zero, Zilch. Not now, not upon the state playing games of litigation, not ever. Any such power rests solely with the Federal Government. And even then, it would be almost impossible to legally justify, even under rules of commerce.

That's what happens when you violently force into submission, a whole "racial" class of natives as "protected" wards, while at the same time, trying to shirk the responsibility of governorship.

Hell, UCE can't even come up with sound estimates of facts relating to the issue of the Cayuga land claims, why should your assessments be any different?

"In the 205 years the Cayuga Indians have been paid 1.63 million dollars. Factoring reasonable interest and inflation these payments have a current equivalent value somewhere between 150 million - 1 billion dollars."

And what was the mechanism the feds used to shut down the Seneca-Cayuga? McCurn ruled they had as much claim as the NY Cayuga. So being an out of state tribe wasn't it.

Yes there are legal ways to collect taxes on all reservations but the state backed off when tribes rioted.

If the state tax law were changed to requiring sovereignty over the land, as I noted before, the Cayuga could legally be required to remit taxes or be shut down. Coupons need not be distributed to enforce it because it would not be a reservation. Under present state tax law, a reservation is defined as any land a tribe owns.

It has nothing to do with race. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

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#1489000 --- 08/29/16 11:29 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It has nothing to do with race. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

It has EVERYTHING to do with race, as any visit to the websites of CERA/CERF/UCE will clearly demonstrate to any intellectually honest individual.

I've NEVER seen a federal (or state) recognized (or otherwise) reservation or tribe of non-Native Americans... and neither has anyone else. Nor have ANY other "ethnic" group been deemed a Ward of Federal Governance.
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#1489001 --- 08/29/16 12:35 PM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
secure white guy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 455
Loc: blue yoga mat
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It has nothing to do with race. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

It has EVERYTHING to do with race, as any visit to the websites of CERA/CERF/UCE will clearly demonstrate to any intellectually honest individual.

Everything...

"By regaining control over small tracts of their land, Haudenosaunee people are regaining political power. For some people, call them what you will, this is unacceptable.

Indians can live under U.S. domination, but not as sovereign equals maintaining their own culture and laws. Hence, in the villages of Union Springs and Cayuga, New York, on the shores of Cayuga Lake, in Cayuga County, we now have an all-white group of people, the “Upstate Citizens for Equality,” who have formed to oppose a sovereign Cayuga presence. In essence, what UCE is doing, is struggling to maintain is their own political advantage
over the people who historically controlled the land UCE members now claim as their own.

Recently, UCE branched out to form a Western New York (Buffalo) chapter to join forces with anti-casino activists – in effect attempting to co-opt the anti-gaming forces into the anti-sovereignty movement. A month ago I wrote a column for Buffalo’s weekly ArtVoice, “Anti-Casino or Anti-Indian,” to ask the question, “when do well intentioned activists cross the line to racism?” Last week, Joel Rose, a leader of Buffalo’s anti-casino movement, responded to that column, writing a letter arguing, “We are not racists: I have never uttered a racist word or expression.” Rose went on to defend UCE, arguing, “UCE has based its position on the distinctly non-racist notion that we should all be playing by the same rules.” The problem with this argument is that the rules UCE argues we all have to play by aren’t mutually agreed upon – they are the rules that White society imposed on the Haudenosaunee during the Sullivan Campaign. In his letter, Rose goes on to describe Haudenosaunee territory as “islands of sovereignty
in the middle of a modern nation.” Now, while Rose isn’t donning a hood or shouting epithets, he is arguing the notion that Indians who live in the here and now are somehow not part of the modern world, and that hence,they have to play by rules that a so-called modern nation imposes upon them. This is the same rhetorical argument white society used to justify genocide and ethnocide gainst supposed “savage,” “primitive” or “uncivilized” Indian nations in the 17 the and 18th centuries. What UCE and Rose are arguing for is not equality – it’s the maintenance of a power dynamic that privileges non-natives at the cost of disempowering native nations. And of course, Roses statement begs the question, if Indians are not a modern nation, then what exactly is Rose saying they are? And if this assumption justifies their disempowerment,then is it racist?"

Will our Indian wars never end?
http://www.coldtype.net/Assets.06/Niman.06/Niman.17.06.pdf

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#1489018 --- 08/30/16 02:00 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I've NEVER seen a federal (or state) recognized (or otherwise) reservation or tribe of non-Native Americans... and neither has anyone else.


you mean there are not any british 'reservations' in the USA?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Timbo
CHEROKEES and CREEKS (among others TRIBES) in the southern interior and most Iroquois nations in the northern interior provided crucial support to the British war effort. With remarkably few exceptions, Native American support for the British was close to universal.



Originally Posted By: Timbo

The MOHAWK chief THAYENDANEGEA (known to Anglo-Americans as JOSEPH BRANT) was the most important Iroquois leader in the Revolutionary Era. He convinced four of the six Iroquois nations to join him in an alliance with the British and was instrumental in leading combined Indian, British, and Loyalist forces on punishing raids in western New York and Pennsylvania in 1778 and 1779.


Originally Posted By: Timbo

Most fought with the British, but all lost in the Peace which followed. The Preliminary Articles of Peace of 1782 did not mention the Native Americans at all. Brant was outraged that the British were selling out the tribes.The British failed to set aside areas which were promised by Treaties they had made with the tribes.





Originally Posted By: Timbo
Nor have ANY other "ethnic" group been deemed a Ward of Federal Governance.


how is that US citizenship working for ya?

Originally Posted By: Timbo
You can't have it both ways
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#1489019 --- 08/30/16 02:09 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
UCE can't even come up with sound estimates of facts relating to the issue of the Cayuga land claims


land claim?

did the cayuga side with the british?

the british LOST

when will the british bring forth a 'land claim'?
crazy
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1489020 --- 08/30/16 02:22 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
"In the 205 years the Cayuga Indians have been paid 1.63 million dollars. Factoring reasonable interest and inflation these payments have a current equivalent value somewhere between 150 million - 1 billion dollars."


$150,000,000 / 64,000 acres = $2343.75 per acre

$1,000,000,000 / 64,000 acres = $15625 per acre

the depot just sold for about $100 per acre

what are you complaining about?

ring up the queen with your concerns...
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1489021 --- 08/30/16 02:34 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It has EVERYTHING to do with race

I've NEVER seen a federal (or state) recognized (or otherwise) reservation or tribe of non-Native Americans... and neither has anyone else. Nor have ANY other "ethnic" group been deemed a Ward of Federal Governance.


are you not able to see your own contradiction in your own post?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1489022 --- 08/30/16 02:42 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
the Cayuga land claims


"In the 205 years the Cayuga Indians have been paid 1.63 million dollars. Factoring reasonable interest and inflation these payments have a current equivalent value somewhere between 150 million - 1 billion dollars."

[/quote]

explain how the cayuga 'tribe' can have a 'land claim' when you pointed out they have been paid for the land?

the USA did not have pay them any money as the land came from defeating the british as you pointed out in your prior posts
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1489026 --- 08/30/16 03:52 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: bluezone]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
the Cayuga land claims

"In the 205 years the Cayuga Indians have been paid 1.63 million dollars. Factoring reasonable interest and inflation these payments have a current equivalent value somewhere between 150 million - 1 billion dollars."

explain how the cayuga 'tribe' can have a 'land claim' when you pointed out they have been paid for the land?
A good point.
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#1489027 --- 08/30/16 06:55 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It has nothing to do with race. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

It has EVERYTHING to do with race, as any visit to the websites of CERA/CERF/UCE will clearly demonstrate to any intellectually honest individual.

I've NEVER seen a federal (or state) recognized (or otherwise) reservation or tribe of non-Native Americans... and neither has anyone else. Nor have ANY other "ethnic" group been deemed a Ward of Federal Governance.


There ya go, the key word is tribe. As a tribe, which has political governance over it's members, the feds establish a political a government to government recognition.

It is true that Indians are the key as “federal instrumentalities” to be used in stealing natural resources and lands for the feds. But ONLY as a tribal government. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

I know you go by the one drop of Indian blood rule claiming all with such are Indians. But the feds only made treaties with those of 50% blood quantum. As such, individuals have been granted tribal status who in turn set the requirements for their own members.

The Buena Vista tribe in California started with only one member. Then she cut a deal for a casino. There were no relatives with more than 50% blood quantum so she eliminated the blood quantum requirement to include cousins, who in turn voted her out of office.

Federal acknowledgment of the tribe is now being challenged by “Friends of Amador County”.

Now others vie for membership or control and the BIA was asked to intervene but declines, as standard procedure, claiming it to be a an internal tribal matter.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.co...egal-heir-85228

The Mashantucket Pequots are another tribe which started quite the same way. The Iroquois will tell you they're not Indians.

There are many tribes with less than 50% Indian blood quantum, and thus more something other than Indian.

But I know you disagree with percentages of blood quantum and federal law. So I guess we'll just have to disagree.

But keep playing that race card and once SCOTUS agrees with you tribes become unconstitutional.

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#1489053 --- 08/30/16 01:04 PM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
It has nothing to do with race. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

It has EVERYTHING to do with race, as any visit to the websites of CERA/CERF/UCE will clearly demonstrate to any intellectually honest individual.

I've NEVER seen a federal (or state) recognized (or otherwise) reservation or tribe of non-Native Americans... and neither has anyone else. Nor have ANY other "ethnic" group been deemed a Ward of Federal Governance.

There ya go, the key word is tribe. As a tribe, which has political governance over it's members, the feds establish a political a government to government recognition.

It is true that Indians are the key as “federal instrumentalities” to be used in stealing natural resources and lands for the feds. But ONLY as a tribal government. Non-tribal Indians pay taxes all the time.

I know you go by the one drop of Indian blood rule claiming all with such are Indians. But the feds only made treaties with those of 50% blood quantum. As such, individuals have been granted tribal status who in turn set the requirements for their own members.

The Buena Vista tribe in California started with only one member. Then she cut a deal for a casino. There were no relatives with more than 50% blood quantum so she eliminated the blood quantum requirement to include cousins, who in turn voted her out of office.

Federal acknowledgment of the tribe is now being challenged by “Friends of Amador County”.

Now others vie for membership or control and the BIA was asked to intervene but declines, as standard procedure, claiming it to be a an internal tribal matter.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.co...egal-heir-85228

The Mashantucket Pequots are another tribe which started quite the same way. The Iroquois will tell you they're not Indians.
There are many tribes with less than 50% Indian blood quantum, and thus more something other than Indian.

But I know you disagree with percentages of blood quantum and federal law. So I guess we'll just have to disagree.

But keep playing that race card and once SCOTUS agrees with you tribes become unconstitutional.

All disparate non-sequiturs.
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#1489054 --- 08/30/16 02:53 PM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
The Buena Vista tribe ialifornia started with only one member. Then she cut a deal for a casino. There were no relatives with more than 50% blood quantum so she eliminated the blood quantum requirement to include cousins, who in turn voted her out of office.
LOL. I love it.
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#1489103 --- 08/31/16 09:32 PM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I've NEVER seen a federal (or state) recognized (or otherwise) reservation or tribe of non-Native Americans


ain't you heard of the United States of America?

grin

Quote:
tribe - any group of people with interests in common


UNITED WE STAND
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#1489108 --- 08/31/16 10:42 PM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14393
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
The Buena Vista tribe ialifornia started with only one member. Then she cut a deal for a casino. There were no relatives with more than 50% blood quantum so she eliminated the blood quantum requirement to include cousins, who in turn voted her out of office.
LOL. I love it.

Then you're only exposing your abject ignorance of human biology, since "blood quantum" is 90% Pseudoscience and 100% meaningless in true scientific terms of genetics.

It was a European, Colonial Concept That Was Imposed Upon the Native Peoples.

Stay in school, boys and girls, or this could be YOU.
shocked sick
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#1489115 --- 09/01/16 08:08 AM Re: Unity Council now known as Cayuga Nation Council [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
The Buena Vista tribe ialifornia started with only one member. Then she cut a deal for a casino. There were no relatives with more than 50% blood quantum so she eliminated the blood quantum requirement to include cousins, who in turn voted her out of office.
LOL. I love it.
Then you're only exposing your abject ignorance of human biology, since "blood quantum" is 90% Pseudoscience and 100% meaningless in true scientific terms of genetics.

It was a European, Colonial Concept That Was Imposed Upon the Native Peoples.

Stay in school, boys and girls, or this could be YOU.
shocked sick
Are you disputing the fact that this "tribe" was down to one member? Sounds like we are all mixed race now. We are, or should be, all equal under the law. Tell Trump no wall is necessary to keep out non-natives. smile


Edited by kyle585 (09/01/16 08:09 AM)
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