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#1480801 --- 01/20/16 11:28 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Well the Oneida “sue” tribe is living true to its reputation. It is suing against the casino opening in Seneca County and obviously against the settlement it agreed to with NYS. Oddly part of the settlement was that no municipality or the State could sue to challenge the settlement or it would become null and void.

This lawsuit by the Oneida could well invalidate their own settlement.


http://auburnpub.com/blogs/eye_on_ny/one...b5b11f6dc4.html
Oneidas file lawsuit against Seneca County casino project, NY Gaming Commission

A new lawsuit filed in a Manhattan court Tuesday by the Oneida Indian Nation says the state Gaming Commission's selection of Lago Resort & Casino in Tyre, Seneca County was illegal and should be nullified.

According to court documents provided by the Oneidas, attorneys for the tribe contend the Gaming Commission's selection process was "ad hoc, subjective and result-oriented" and didn't abide by standards established in the Upstate NY Gaming Economic Development Act, a measure that was signed into law in 2013 by Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

The Oneidas reiterated that if Lago is built in Tyre, it will cannibalize revenues from existing upstate gaming facilities, including the nation's Turning Stone Resort Casino in Verona and Yellow Brick Road Casino in Chittenango.

Members of Casino Free Tyre, a group of town residents opposing the $425 million project, are listed with the Oneidas as petitioners.

"When the Oneida Indian Nation and a majority of New Yorkers supported the measure to expand gaming, we supported a very clear law — one that mandated a review formula requiring new gaming facilities to prove they will create new jobs, rather than simply cannibalizing local economies," the Oneidas said in a statement.

"That new law did not empower the Gaming Commission to create an arbitrary make-it-up-as-you go licensing process that allows commissioners to change their review criteria on a whim. This lawsuit is simple: we are asking the court to force the Gaming Commission to enforce and respect the law that it is responsible for upholding."

A spokesman for the state Gaming Commission declined comment.

Wilmorite, a Rochester-area real estate development firm, first proposed Lago Resort & Casino in late 2013. Almost immediately, some town residents spoke out against the project.

The opposition heated up in December 2014 after the state Gaming Facility Location Board, which was tasked with reviewing gaming resort proposals, recommended Lago for a casino license. There were ad campaigns, lawsuits, letters to the state Gaming Commission and rallies.

Last month, the state Gaming Commission awarded Lago a license to operate a casino in New York.

The Oneidas' lawsuit was filed four days after a beam signing ceremony was held at the Lago construction site in Tyre.

Lago is expected to open in early 2017.

In a statement, Lago spokesman Steve Greenberg said the latest legal challenge is part of the Oneidas' "all-out assault against competition."

"The Oneidas are moving ahead with yet another lawsuit despite the well-considered, lawful actions of the New York State Gaming Commission, the indisputably significant economic benefits Lago will provide for the region and the state and the overwhelming support for Lago among public officials, business leaders and the public," he said.

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#1480818 --- 01/20/16 02:40 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/11/ny-village-mulls-changing-seal.html#commentsDiv
NY village to keep seal some call racist

In a non-binding vote Monday night, residents voted 157-55 to not change their current seal.

"Whitesboro views this seal as a moment in time when good relations were fostered," Nimey-Olney said. "It is a wrestling match, part of the history, and nothing more."

Update-Whitesboro Residents to Celebrate Village Seal Vote with Historical "Wrestling Match" Reenactments:

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#1480894 --- 01/22/16 02:32 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Yes, in politics, politicians CAN be bought.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2...rsial_seal.html
Contrary to the village of Whitesboro's public vote to keep its controversial seal, the mayor has announced a decision to change the logo.

In a joint statement released today, Whitesboro Village Mayor Patrick O'Connor and the Oneida Nation said they will be meeting to discuss the creation of a new emblem.


"The Daily Show" announced the village's decision to change the seal on its show Thursday night. After inquiries by Syracuse.com about when the decision was made to change the seal and by whom, the village and Oneida Nation released a statement saying they were working together to design a new village seal.

On Jan. 11, 2016, 157 of 212 village residents voted to keep the seal. The vote was non-binding. Numerous logos presented to residents at the vote were designed by "The Daily Show."

In the statement, O'Connor said residents since that voters have supported keeping the seal, but redesigning it in "a more modern, detailed, and culturally appropriate way."

After the vote, O'Connor said the village was setting up a committee to consider changing the seal, but was keeping it for now.

The seal, which dates back to 1883, shows a white settler with his hands apparently choking a Native American man. Although village officials said the seal depicts a friendly wrestling match between Hugh White, the town's founder, and a member of the local Oneida tribe; it's caused controversy for years. Many called it racist and offensive.

Descendants of Hugh White also contacted the village, saying while they wanted to preserve the history of the seal, all the negative controversy and national attention prompted them to support a redesign, said Village Clerk Dana Nimey-Olney.

Nimey-Olney said six residents came to the meeting held after the vote and said they would support a redesign, as long as the history was preserved. The board didn't vote to change the seal, but she said the board "is all in agreement the seal can be done better."

"In speaking with a lot of the residents that voted to keep the seal, I think they were surprised at the negative attention that Whitesboro was receiving as a result of the vote. They wanted to preserve history at the time of the vote, but also want to ensure that village is seen as the inclusive place that it is," O'Connor said in his statement.

He could not be reached for comment Friday.

Oneida Nation Chief Executive Officer and Oneida Indian Nation Representative Ray Halbritter said "we are happy to work with anyone who wants to make sure the symbols they are promoting are honoring and respecting all people. We applaud the village leaders' willingness to evaluate their own symbols and how to make sure they accurately reflect their community's core values."

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#1480900 --- 01/22/16 07:00 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY

Whitesboro, N.Y. Decides Racist Seal Is A Bad Idea After All:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whitesboro-to-change-town-seal_us_56a28d3ae4b0404eb8f19118

The Village of Whitesboro, N.Y. has succumbed to public pressure and announced that, despite a recent vote of support, it will do away with a town seal many view as racist and offensive.

The logo, which has drawn national ridicule in recent weeks, appears to show a white man choking a Native American.

On Thursday, Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" aired a segment about the controversial seal, with reporter Jessica Williams at one point asking, "Is that pioneer choking that Native American dude to death or do I have something crazy in my eye."

Williams announced on the show that, despite the 157-55 vote to keep the historic seal, the village now planned to work with the Oneida Indian Nation to come up with a new emblem.

According to Whitesboro's website, the seal, which was modified in the 1970s to make clear the Native American was not being choked, depicts a friendly wrestling match between the town's founder, Hugh White, and an Oneida Indian. The village writes that the match was "an important event in the history of the settling of the Village of Whitesboro and helped foster good relations between White and the Indians."

As "The Daily Show" segment points out, the villagers and the Oneida Indian Nation were even allies against the British during the Revolutionary War.

In a statement Friday, Whitesboro Mayor Patrick O’Connor said many local residents "were surprised at the negative attention" the village received as a result of its Jan. 11 vote.

"They wanted to preserve history at the time of the vote, but also want to ensure that the Village is seen as the inclusive place that it is,” O’Connor said.

Whitesboro is a village within Whitestown and its 3,735-person population is 94.3 percent "white alone." It has just five Native American residents.

Ray Halbritter, a representative of the Oneida Indian Nation, applauded Friday's decision to create a new seal that will better reflect the community's core values.

“We are happy to work with anyone who wants to make sure the symbols they are promoting are honoring and respecting all people," he said in a statement. “This is but one of many important examples of communities taking welcome steps to be inclusive and promote our region’s commitment to civility."

See below for "The Daily Show" segment on Whitesboro:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/y3nhwj/the...-whitesboro--ny

Attempts to reach Whitesboro officials for comment Friday were unsuccessful. grin
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#1480910 --- 01/22/16 09:30 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
secure white guy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 455
Loc: blue yoga mat

Settler looks like a Cro-Magnon. And it appears the Oneida literally gave the shirt off his back,only to be throttled. The current demographic makeup of Whitesboro suggests there's more to this feigned wrestling match rationale. Common sense prevails nonetheless.

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#1480915 --- 01/23/16 05:04 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Ray Halbritter, a representative of the Oneida Indian Nation, applauded Friday's decision to create a new seal that will better reflect the community's core values.
Ray runs Turning Stone and pays no taxes. Such are his core values.
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#1480922 --- 01/23/16 07:33 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
secure white guy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 455
Loc: blue yoga mat
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Ray Halbritter, a representative of the Oneida Indian Nation, applauded Friday's decision to create a new seal that will better reflect the community's core values.
Ray runs Turning Stone and pays no taxes. Such are his core values.


Nice try thread pirate.

Now, please explain your opposition to this decision without tripping over your 'agenda'.


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#1480933 --- 01/23/16 09:27 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: secure white guy]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: secure white guy
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Ray Halbritter, a representative of the Oneida Indian Nation, applauded Friday's decision to create a new seal that will better reflect the community's core values.
Ray runs Turning Stone and pays no taxes. Such are his core values.
Nice try thread pirate.

Now, please explain your opposition to this decision without tripping over your 'agenda'.
Oh I have no objection to this decision. I don't care one way or the other. My only complaint is that Native Americans should pay the same taxes and follow all the same laws as all other American citizens.
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#1480943 --- 01/23/16 10:55 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY

Then feel free to vent your spleen on the appropriate thread(s). Not here.
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#1480948 --- 01/23/16 11:54 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Then feel free to vent your spleen on the appropriate thread(s). Not here.
This thread is labeled "Still more Tribal News". It was started by Rich who I know agrees with me on my aforementioned comment. I would think anything related to Native Americans would be an appropriate post on this thread.
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#1480951 --- 01/23/16 12:58 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Then feel free to vent your spleen on the appropriate thread(s). Not here.
This thread is labeled "Still more Tribal News". It was started by Rich who I know agrees with me on my aforementioned comment. I would think anything related to Native Americans would be an appropriate post on this thread.

Except that your post isn't news. In facts, it's tired, old commentary. So, No. It isn't appropriate.

Why don't you start a new thread to replace the one titled "Payment in Lieu [sic] of Taxes"? You know, the one that was locked because of your inability to stick to the thread topic??? You can call it "STILL More Payment in Lieu of Taxes", like your "buddy" did with this thread. crazy
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#1480960 --- 01/23/16 03:50 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Rather than start a Formermac Tangent thread from the Donald Trump thread on which he can’t stay on topic or starting another Indian thread I opted to do what I recommended he do and post in the correct thread.

Originally Posted By: Formermac
Not quite Rich, America will be great once you WASP are extinct and the current America can get on with the business of making progress unrestricted.

My reply: There you go again exposing your hatred. Maybe that explains why the majority of violent criminals are Democrats.

Formermac reply:
LOL, not quite hatred son, lets review history for the last 2 century,

who brought slavery to the United States?

[My answer: The Dutch started in about 1600 mainly importing slaves from the Caribbean as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. But it wasn’t the United States yet and slavery was worldwide and still is to a great extent.

In the 16 th – 18 th century, Africans enslaved 1.5 white Europeans in the Barbary Slave Trade. Whites were the first people to stop slavery in modern times and that’s thanks to our Constitution and the means to made amendments.

The ethic of conquest, the idea that you get land by grabbing it from someone else has been occurring since the dawn of mankind, native Americans often took land from others. Only a racist would excuse their actions because they stole from their own race.

Slavery was a universal institution, but only one nation, the United States, fought a war to end it.]

who left their mother land to seek a better life?

[My answer: Well, obviously everyone who migrated including those referred to as Native Americans. ]

who wrote a Constitution declaring themselves a people with certain inalienable rights yet negated to make Women and and people placed under substandard conditions inclusive to those rights?

[My answer: Actually some of my own ancestors wrote the first constitution in history in which the foundation of government was based upon the individual sovereignty and will of the people. Thanks to the means to change that constitution, as part of the Constitution itself, women and African Americans are now equal under the law. Unfortunately tribal Native Americans have yet to acquire those rights. ]

who created Jim Crow laws in the South?

[My answer: Well, being that you are talking about race and religion, that would be the same people who through Brown v. Board of Education eliminated the Jim Crow laws.]

Who reluctantly gave rights to women and Blacks during the 20th century?

[My answer: again being that you are talking about race and religion, that would be the same people who wrote the Constitution. ]

Who were the only species allowed to own land in the United States decades ago and BTW, land brutally taken from the true Native American here?

[My answer: That depends on how selective you wish to narrow your decades. Since the 1924 Citizenship Act and to all citizens before who were citizens, all species have been allowed to own land in the United States. ]

History records a past riddle with WASP deeming themselves the only being capable of governing a Nation.

[Comment: History records a past of all races conquering others and your selective racist hatred has only become elaborated upon by adding a hatred for Christians as well. Yes, Formermac, you are in self denial but you are full of hate.]

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#1480967 --- 01/23/16 06:51 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Maybe that explains why the majority of violent criminals are Democrats.

There's absolutely NO evidence to support that statement. In fact, the original sources that are always used to allegedly support that old canard had have made it clear that making such claims based on these studies is "misinterpreting our research".

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...iminals-democr/
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/12/cruz-on-violent-criminals-and-democrats/

On the other hand...

Red States Have Higher Crime Rates Than Blue States:
http://editions.lib.umn.edu/smartpolitics/2009/09/16/red-states-have-higher-crime-r/

The rest of that post remains wholly absurd, to boot.

Case in point:
Q: "who left their mother land to seek a better life?"

A: "Well, obviously everyone who migrated including those referred to as Native Americans."

From where exactly do you get your "facts", these days??? crazy

But I digress.
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1481093 --- 01/27/16 12:05 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
The crime rates for all states have been falling for years and some states just not as fast as others. But the data is skewed because divided by county, those that voted for Obama had higher crime rates.

As pointed out in one of the letters following that same article:

Crime rates for Missouri by county

http://www.sos.mo.gov/enrmaps/20081104/pres_map.asp?oTypeID=1&Friday, December 04, 2009

What conclusion may be drawn? Certainly, no assertion of extraordinary criminal behavior by right leaning populations can be made from this analysis. The Blue Counties have a crime rate that is 2.72 TIMES that of Red Counties in Missouri.

Here is another tidbit: The two major cities in Missouri, St. Louis and Kansas City voted red by a margin of 149,349 McCain to 343,749 to Obama showing a red/blue bias of 39.4%. These two cities voted 39.4% more for Obama than McCain. The crime rate for these two dense Democratic bastions in Missouri was a combined rate of 1,307. A crime rate 4.3 times that of the Red Counties.

Liars. Shame on you.

As for the Google expert, you could easily see who the first humans were that migrated to the Americas, but when presented with facts you just don’t like the answers. And regardless of who was first, they were all immigrants.

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#1481098 --- 01/27/16 03:51 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
The crime rates for all states have been falling for years and some states just not as fast as others. But the data is skewed because divided by county, those that voted for Obama had higher crime rates.

As pointed out in one of the letters following that same article:

Crime rates for Missouri by county

http://www.sos.mo.gov/enrmaps/20081104/pres_map.asp?oTypeID=1&Friday, December 04, 2009

What conclusion may be drawn? Certainly, no assertion of extraordinary criminal behavior by right leaning populations can be made from this analysis. The Blue Counties have a crime rate that is 2.72 TIMES that of Red Counties in Missouri.

Here is another tidbit: The two major cities in Missouri, St. Louis and Kansas City voted red by a margin of 149,349 McCain to 343,749 to Obama showing a red/blue bias of 39.4%. These two cities voted 39.4% more for Obama than McCain. The crime rate for these two dense Democratic bastions in Missouri was a combined rate of 1,307. A crime rate 4.3 times that of the Red Counties.

Liars. Shame on you.

As for the Google expert, you could easily see who the first humans were that migrated to the Americas, but when presented with facts you just don’t like the answers. And regardless of who was first, they were all immigrants.



Nice Spin, Rich. Lets's dismantle the illogic of it all, point-by-point.

1) The crime rate for ALL states has indeed NOT been falling for all states.

2) The violent crime rates in those listed, I submit, are a result of right-leaning policies which inevitably result in high gun ownership, unemployment, poverty and lack of public assistance, etc.. NOT population or ideology. So, don't be so obtuse as to suggest that I implied otherwise.

3) By using your own angular logic, the entire human species are immigrants. There are logical, scientific measures of criteria used for the characterization of the term. Your non-descriminatory yardstick, clearly doesn't meet that standard. What you see as "easy" others recognize as a mangled and intentionally misleading attempt to shoehorn half-facts and distortions into a seemingly cohesive, accurate argument. Your statement is untrue by virtually every meaningful, applicable metric. To discount the consideration of who was here first, only highlights your disingenuousness while discussing the subject.
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#1481101 --- 01/27/16 04:08 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
By using your own angular logic, the entire human species are immigrants.
Therefore there is no such thing as Native Americans. The first "settlers", as Teonan likes to call them, came over the land bridge from Russia to Canada many thousands of years ago.
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#1481104 --- 01/27/16 04:16 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14293
Loc: CNY

Missed the point completely, didn't you? frown

At least you understand that Rich's argument holds no water.
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#1481129 --- 01/27/16 08:58 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Of course you didn’t imply otherwise because using state data as opposed to county or city data doesn’t fit your agenda.

Sorry to hear your Google is broken. Glad to see you acknowledge you argument is based on which immigrants you think were here first.

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#1481132 --- 01/27/16 09:17 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
By using your own angular logic, the entire human species are immigrants.
Therefore there is no such thing as Native Americans. The first "settlers", as Teonan likes to call them, came over the land bridge from Russia to Canada many thousands of years ago.
By a Google of the question, one can see the data suggesting that the first migrants likely came via water and they weren’t Mongolian. But I stated that regardless of which race migrated here first, they were all migrants looking for a better place to live. That answered Formermac’s question, in the Trump thread, which he chooses to ignore.

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#1481225 --- 01/29/16 04:33 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Rather than start a Formermac Tangent thread


need not worry

I created the 'walk the walk' thread in the great debate section for that purpose

if another poster runs off topic just move any further discussion there
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