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#1509112 --- 11/17/17 10:42 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Wolf King]
gassy one Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/16
Posts: 2493
I have to sink down to your level!

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#1509138 --- 11/18/17 11:04 AM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Kells]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
We are getting this from one side here. One cannot judge an entire group of people based on the actions of one person from that group. "Racist cops" how are they racist? Do you know them? have you spoke with them? most people are basing their opinions of police officers on what other people have told them, or what they've read or seen on the internet. Let's not be so quick to judge here. people in general are ignorant of the law and how it works. So when a police officer tells someone something that is maybe not to their favor, or something they don't care to hear, they immediately go to "oh the cop is racist," or "the cop is crooked," or "the cop is homophobic." If the person is wrong, they're wrong. Being gay, straight, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. has nothing to do with it. People say the cops don't do anything, maybe some don't. If people don't have whatever issue they've gone to the police for taken care of in the time frame they think is suitable for that particular issue, all the sudden "it's the cops fault and they don't do anything." Are there bad police officers, of course there are, there are bad people in every profession. I think we all need to take a step back and start making some observations based on fact and not other people's opinions on what's popular in the media this week. Should police officers and city officials be held accountable? or course they should, but bashing them over the internet wont solve anything. I know there are plenty of police officers out there who do the job well and genuinely want to help people. "Is hate among us?", did we ever stop to think we are contributing to this hate by bashing officers and city officials without even getting their side of the story or getting some facts? "Well, police lie!", PEOPLE lie! Every day and mostly lie to the police. You want change? Fine, but don't hide behind a computer/smartphone and bash people. Go out and do something about it. If you are a tax paying citizen, you owe it to yourself to see that your money is being spent the best way possible on the best services possible. Let's grow up.
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1509140 --- 11/18/17 11:39 AM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14009
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
We are getting this from one side here. One cannot judge an entire group of people based on the actions of one person from that group. "Racist cops" how are they racist? Do you know them? have you spoke with them? most people are basing their opinions of police officers on what other people have told them, or what they've read or seen on the internet. Let's not be so quick to judge here. people in general are ignorant of the law and how it works. So when a police officer tells someone something that is maybe not to their favor, or something they don't care to hear, they immediately go to "oh the cop is racist," or "the cop is crooked," or "the cop is homophobic." If the person is wrong, they're wrong. Being gay, straight, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. has nothing to do with it. People say the cops don't do anything, maybe some don't. If people don't have whatever issue they've gone to the police for taken care of in the time frame they think is suitable for that particular issue, all the sudden "it's the cops fault and they don't do anything." Are there bad police officers, of course there are, there are bad people in every profession. I think we all need to take a step back and start making some observations based on fact and not other people's opinions on what's popular in the media this week. Should police officers and city officials be held accountable? or course they should, but bashing them over the internet wont solve anything. I know there are plenty of police officers out there who do the job well and genuinely want to help people. "Is hate among us?", did we ever stop to think we are contributing to this hate by bashing officers and city officials without even getting their side of the story or getting some facts? "Well, police lie!", PEOPLE lie! Every day and mostly lie to the police. You want change? Fine, but don't hide behind a computer/smartphone and bash people. Go out and do something about it. If you are a tax paying citizen, you owe it to yourself to see that your money is being spent the best way possible on the best services possible. Let's grow up.

Public servants should ALWAYS be held to a higher standard than the general population. The courts have upheld that fact time and time again.

If such a public servant publicly posts multiple abjectly racist pieces of content, then it is only natural that they will be held up to precisely the same public scrutiny (online or otherwise). It is not 'bashing' as you characterize it, but rather well-deserved outrage for despicable acts that should instantly disqualify someone from serving based upon the obvious psychological requirements for the job.

To suggest that those who publicly express their outrage online are somehow 'hiding' or un-entitled to do so, is merely victim-blaming. Not only do public demonstrations of outrage indeed 'change things', they're at the very heart of establishing fair, just, community standards.

An argument simply can't be made that negates the justifiable outrage at the epidemic abuse of power endemic in most police forces today. You speak of word-of-mouth vs direct evidence... If scrubbing YouTube for endless examples of barbaric violence committed by police doesn't offer sufficient evidence to warrant utter distrust of law enforcement, then nothing does.

Again, police are not 'just people'. They have controversially been given greater powers and legal authority than the the citizenry (contrary to clear constitutional laws forbidding such 'super citizens'), and as such, are under greater legal obligation to perform their duties at a more elevated level of functioning.

One is born a citizen. Not so with public servants, therefore, one willingly and without qualification, accepts the burdens of the job (be that as they are). And since the police in America have systemically failed to police themselves, don't expect people to alter their views on the matter. This will assuredly only get worse until someone finally gets a hand on this rampant, vile behavior. Bringing such acts to the forefront of public discourse (in whatever manner necessary) is the first and inevitable step in the process.
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#1509141 --- 11/18/17 11:41 AM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Kells]
Wolf King Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/17
Posts: 240
Loc: The Forest
Once again, Timbo hits it out of the park.
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#1509158 --- 11/18/17 02:41 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Timbo]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
I don't disagree with you at all timbo. I think public officials and police officers should be held to a higher standard and I do not condone any type of behavior that would be racially motivated. I respect people's opinions and don't expect to change anyone's views. I'm simply saying that we need facts in order to make any sort of valid argument. I'm also saying that actions speak louder than words. Not all police officers think alike on everything and to group them together as all being "racist" by the actions of one particular officer is being childish. No one wants to be labeled by the negative behavior of one individual. I also respect that the forum is a way for some to vent!
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1509159 --- 11/18/17 02:56 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Wolf King]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
Everyone watches the negative videos on YouTube, but what about the positive ones? Are there any? Police officers do good everyday and no one seems to take notice or record anything because it's not the "popular" thing to do. Everyone is so negative all the time that no one stops to look at any of the positives. Its always someone else's fault and people pass the buck, not taking responsibility for their actions. Unless any of us are or have been police officers, then we really have no idea what the job is like and only "know" through our experiences with our interactions with police, be it negative or positive. Oh and police are people too and weren't born police officers. They were citizens at one point and will be again when they are no longer police officers. Most people have no clue what policing is like, myself included.
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1509172 --- 11/18/17 04:20 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Kells]
Wolf King Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/17
Posts: 240
Loc: The Forest
I don't think anyone was implying "all" police officers are bad. Only that the blatantly racist and hateful ones do need to be removed from that position. I dare say most people understand not all police are bad and that they do in fact do many good things. But the ones that are bad (and there are many, it's far more than a few bad apples, unfortunately) have the capacity to hurt many people. I do not agree at all that people critical or less-than-trusting of the police are that way simply because they believe it's the popular view to have. People base their perceptions on real-world experiences. When someone is treated poorly by a law-enforcement officer, that will naturally alter their perception. That person may or may not have deserved such treatment. I'm not talking about the murderers and child predators, because I honestly don't care how they are treated. But an unarmed and cooperating person should not be berated, beaten and even cut down in cold blood over jaywalking or weed possession or even a perceived disrespect. And it happens, every day. The "unless you've worked as a police officer" does not exactly fit here, because police are not any old job. They are not doctors, or janitors or truck drivers or bank tellers. These people have the capacity to immediately take life or freedom, and on a whim. Given the capacity these people possess, I would hardly say the general public is being too hard on them. We have every last right to hold them to this heightened standard. As you stated yourself, you don't know what the job is like. Neither do I. But I do know that an unarmed and compliant human being should not be cut down in cold blood because an officer claimed he or she "feared for my life". If that is the case, they do not need to be employed in that profession in any capacity.

Concerning this particular officer with the GPD, I do believe posting the flag of an enemy nation of these United States (confederate) should be grounds for termination. He should have been a bit more intelligent than to post such things on his Facebook, being a police officer.
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#1509190 --- 11/18/17 08:03 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Wolf King]
gassy one Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/16
Posts: 2493
The problem with your theories is the majority of Americans don't buy into them! The first thing minorities do when they are interacting with police is play the race card and accept no responsibility for their actions! It's always somebody Else's fault! There is a reason why there are 5 times more blacks in jail than whites and it isn't because of racism!

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#1509202 --- 11/18/17 08:30 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Wolf King]
Cowgirl Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 274
Loc: NY
The police know of the atrocities their "brother in blue" do, but are too cowardly to come forward, and/or try to put a stop to it; that makes them just as guilty. The prosecutors, judges, FBI, NYSAG, and attorneys also know when the police do something illegal, and instead of serving justice they let innocent people suffer. Then we have completely ignorant uneducated people who believe what the media says therefore repeats on this forum. They are all tools and players. Why do we allow it?

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#1509205 --- 11/18/17 08:38 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Cowgirl]
gassy one Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/16
Posts: 2493
Everything is a big conspiracy! LOL!

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#1509207 --- 11/18/17 09:21 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: gassy one]
Cowgirl Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 274
Loc: NY
No - what they (the police, judges, lawyers, politicians) do is criminal. Its a crime against the laws created by man and a crime against humanity.

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#1509208 --- 11/18/17 10:01 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: gassy one]
Wolf King Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/17
Posts: 240
Loc: The Forest
Originally Posted By: gassy one
The problem with your theories is the majority of Americans don't buy into them! The first thing minorities do when they are interacting with police is play the race card and accept no responsibility for their actions! It's always somebody Else's fault! There is a reason why there are 5 times more blacks in jail than whites and it isn't because of racism!




Just LOL at this entire post. How are you using the internet from 1865?
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#1509215 --- 11/19/17 03:09 AM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: gassy one]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14009
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: gassy one
There is a reason why there are 5 times more blacks in jail than whites and it isn't because of racism!

Almost entirely untrue. Perhaps the greatest reason being, that they're prosecuted at many times the rate and for FAR longer sentences than for equal crimes committed by white men.

But to hell with the cold, hard facts issued by the U.S. Sentencing Commission, isn't that right, my li'l Peckerwood friend?


https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...emographics.pdf
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1509234 --- 11/19/17 11:00 AM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Wolf King]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
What if he had posted a pic with the Japanese flag? Or the United kingdom's? Both were "enemy nations" at one point. I don't view the confederate flag as racist or that is represents racism. I realize that some people may, but it's freedom of speech for one thing and just because someone posts pics of it, doesn't make them racist. I'm more concerned about the comments that were posted. While it's freedom of speech, they shouldn't have been posted on social media especially by an officer of the law. Also, I would like to see the numbers on there being far more bad cops than good. And I do believe people get their views of the police from the media and what is popular. People do group all cops together and generalize them by the actions of a few. I'm sorry if you've had a negative experience with the police, but I have not. Anytime I've had any interactions with police officers, they've been respectful. Do you know why? Because I'm respectful. Simple as that. Are there dumb cops? Sure, but there are a lot of dumb people too.


Edited by FL1 Mod 2 (11/20/17 01:35 PM)
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1509239 --- 11/19/17 12:51 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14009
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
What if he had posted a pic with the Japanese flag? Or the United kingdom's? Both were "enemy nations" at one point. I don't view the confederate flag as racist or that is represents racism. I realize that some people may, but it's freedom of speech for one thing and just because someone posts pics of it, doesn't make them racist. I'm more concerned about the comments that were posted. While it's freedom of speech, they shouldn't have been posted on social media especially by an officer of the law. Also, I would like to see the numbers on there being far more bad cops than good. And I do believe people get their views of the police from the media and what is popular. People do group all cops together and generalize them by the actions of a few. I'm sorry if you've had a negative experience with the police, but I have not. Anytime I've had any interactions with police officers, they've been respectful. Do you know why? Because I'm respectful. Simple as that. Are there dickhead cops? Sure, but there are a lot of dickhead people too.

1) Freedom of speech does NOT extend to one's place of employment (as both state and federal supreme courts have consistently ruled).

2) The south was NOT an enemy "nation". They were, by every legal definition, traitors to the nation and they were defeated in war.

3) Contrary to your 'beliefs", the stars and bars were ALL about slavery. The designer of the Confederate Battle Flag, the Proclamation of Secession and the 'legal' foundation for the creation of the electoral college each state, in total specificity, that a slavery-based economy was the sole reason behind it. I'm sorry, but the historical record trumps your lack of knowledge on this subject.

4) You're applying severely hypocritical standards in your argument by assailing those who allegedly lump all cops into one group, by lumping them all into the same group. See the 'irony' in that???

5) You say you've 'never had a negative experience with the police'. Dollars to donuts (pun intended) says that you're Lilly-White.

6) Just because something 'popular' is posted on 'the media', in NO way, shape, or form lessens its accuracy.

7) I'm as white as they come and am ALWAYS respectful to those I deal with, but in spite of my courtesies, have more than a few times been treated with contempt, disrespect, intimidation and had my constitutional rights violated by law enforcement. Just imagine what abuses the most horrifically abused group in American history (after that of Native Americans) deals with on a regular basis. Oh wait... no one has to imagine. It's broadcast in full gory color on a daily basis (or there abouts).

8) My 'record' is and always has been spotless. As a US veteran, I've come to prize my constitutional rights with uncompromising gravity. The issue isn't wether it's some, most or all cops that are corrupted by power... it's that the corruption is no longer simply an endemic problem with some police. It is now utterly systemic and systematic in police forces and within the legal system nationwide.

Feel free to surrender your own Constitutional rights, I'll fight to the death to preserve mine and those of every American.
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#1509242 --- 11/19/17 02:27 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Timbo]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
Where's an "eyes rolling" emoji when ya need one?
_________________________
before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1509244 --- 11/19/17 02:49 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14009
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
Where's an "eyes rolling" emoji when ya need one?

That's OK, I understand. There's not much to be said when your entire argument has been laid-waste by unequivocal FACTS. smirk
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1509251 --- 11/19/17 03:45 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Timbo]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
I don't disagree with you Timbo, I was just taking some quotes from Wolf's post when they referred to the Confederate States as an enemy nation. I will have to think the CSA was a nation, albeit an unrecognized one, and would assume the people living in the CSA saw themselves as a nation. The stars 'n' bars is actually not the confederate flag, but the battle flag of northern Virginia. the confederacy used many flags, but the stars 'n' bars is the one most associated with the CSA. The stars 'n' bars represents secession and that the southern states no longer wanted to be part of the union. Yes, slavery was part of it, but not the entire reason the states seceded. racists and white supremacists have adopted the flag to represent their racial beliefs because the CSA had slavery, but I do not believe that's what the flag was designed to represent. I'm not Lilly-white btw, I'm bi-racial and have a darker complexion. I have been pulled over by police, given tickets, have been spoken to by the police, however I do not consider these negative experiences. I got a ticket that I deserved, the officer was not an ahole. I never questioned your record either. I just have to go back to the whole thing about bad cops. they're out there for sure, but I think most are good PEOPLE. they're people too. They eat, shit and sleep just like everyone else. Wolf, I too agree with you when you say that being a police officer is no ordinary job, but to say they can take life on a whim? come on. you think that if an officer is to take a life, it's on a whim? you don't think it effects him/her? I find it hard to believe that anyone who is an officer, wakes up in the morning and says "hey, I think I'm going to take a life today", or "I think i'll violate someone's civil rights today", cops aren't robots. I just don't get all the sweeping generalizations that are being made. to even say a majority of cops are bad, is ridiculous. corrupt cops are out there, corrupt officials are out there, but most try to do good, IMO. go to the citizen's academy that GPD puts on every year. I did and it changed my perspective on some things. Timbo, thank you for your service and happy belated veteran's day.


Edited by FL1 Mod 2 (11/20/17 01:50 PM)
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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#1509253 --- 11/19/17 04:15 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: rock 963]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14009
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: rock 963
I don't disagree with you Timbo, I was just taking some quotes from Wolf's post when they referred to the Confederate States as an enemy nation. I will have to think the CSA was a nation, albeit an unrecognized one, and would assume the people living in the CSA saw themselves as a nation. The stars 'n' bars is actually not the confederate flag, but the battle flag of northern Virginia. the confederacy used many flags, but the stars 'n' bars is the one most associated with the CSA. The stars 'n' bars represents secession and that the southern states no longer wanted to be part of the union. Yes, slavery was part of it, but not the entire reason the states seceded. racists and white supremacists have adopted the flag to represent their racial beliefs because the CSA had slavery, but I do not believe that's what the flag was designed to represent. I'm not Lilly-white btw, I'm bi-racial and have a darker complexion. I have been pulled over by police, given tickets, have been spoken to by the police, however I do not consider these negative experiences. I got a ticket that I deserved, the officer was not an asshole. I never questioned your record either. I just have to go back to the whole thing about bad cops. they're out there for sure, but I think most are good PEOPLE. they're people too. They eat, shit and sleep just like everyone else. Wolf, I too agree with you when you say that being a police officer is no ordinary job, but to say they can take life on a whim? come on. you think that if an officer is to take a life, it's on a whim? you don't think it effects him/her? I find it hard to believe that anyone who is an officer, wakes up in the morning and says "hey, I think I'm going to take a life today", or "I think i'll violate someone's civil rights today", cops aren't robots. I just don't get all the sweeping generalizations that are being made. to even say a majority of cops are bad, is ridiculous. corrupt cops are out there, corrupt officials are out there, but most try to do good, IMO. go to the citizen's academy that GPD puts on every year. I did and it changed my perspective on some things. Timbo, thank you for your service and happy belated veteran's day.

First of all, I was the one to correctly refer to it as the confederate battle flag. So don't waste your time trying to pretend that you know something that I don't. Besides... your point is entirely irrelevant seeing as how it's the very same flag that you were referring to in your patently false assertion that it was only partially the reason for secession. It was entirely the reason. Go read the the exact wording of the terms for intent to secede for yourself. I won't waste my time trying to explain well-documented facts to someone who hasn't taken the time to explore them for themselves. It's also irrelevant how the Confederate States imagined themselves. They already were PART of a nation, otherwise they would have no call to secede. Period.

The point of mentioning that I have a spotless record was simply to eliminate the argument that my background may have somehow been a contributing factor in my unfortunate experiences with police and the legal system.

Regardless of your willingness to allow for police being 'people too', The courts have ruled very specifically, articles requiring police performance above and beyond that of the general population. Put simply... it's irrelevant that they are people too. They are law enforcement personnel and are responsible to behave at a higher standard and are to be prosecuted accordingly. The legal system however, is in direct opposition to those principals, colludes with those who suppress and/or destroy evidence, systematically refuse to release public records and with few exceptions fail to uphold official policies and disciplinary actions in meaningful, effective ways.

I have several family members in law and law enforcement. I have no need to have my feathers smoothed over by disingenuous public relations feel-good presentations.

And you are sincerely welcome.
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#1509254 --- 11/19/17 04:22 PM Re: Is hate among us? Oh my! [Re: Timbo]
rock 963 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Geneva, NY
wow.
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before going to bed at night, the boogey man checks the closet for chuck norris.

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