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#1501338 --- 07/12/17 03:48 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: gassy one]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: gassy one
If you put ten scientists in a room and give them all the same data you are going to get ten different interpretations of the same data!

Tell that to a mathematician, you troglodyte. As I said... "You've confirmed your abject ignorance of science and the scientific process." crazy

Stay in school, Kids!
grin
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#1501339 --- 07/12/17 03:56 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
AND the number one human activity causing this, AGRICULTURE.

Uh, No.

The IUCN Red List now includes 77,340 species that were assessed for extinction risk, of which 22,784 are threatened. Loss and degradation of habitat was identified as the main threat to 85 percent of all species on the list, with illegal trade and invasive species as other key drivers of population decline.
What is the one human activity that causes degradation of habitat more than any other ? Unless you consider corn and soy bean fields habitat, it would be agriculture.

Sorry, Charlie. Your conclusions are utterly incorrect. You're making the very same flawed assumptions as your partner in scientific illiteracy, 'gassy'.

Now, go back and actually read the article and this time, pay attention to ALL the words written.
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#1501342 --- 07/12/17 04:23 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Gassy, my theory is timbo is really a chimpanzee.

https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Habitat-Loss.aspx

What are the main drivers of habitat loss in the U.S.?

Agriculture: Much of the habitat loss from agriculture was done long ago when settlers converted forests and prairies to cropland. Today, there is increasing pressure to redevelop conservation lands for high-priced food and biofuel crops.
Land conversion for development: The conversion of lands that once provided wildlife habitat to housing developments, roads, office parks, strip malls, parking lots and industrial sites continues, even during the current economic crisis.
Water development: Dams and other water diversions siphon off and disconnect waters, changing hydrology and water chemistry (when nutrients are not able to flow downstream). During the dry season, the Colorado River has little to no water in it by the time it reaches the Sea of Cortez.

At least a chimp has a chance of understanding the basic scientific information surrounding the discussion. crazy

So, first of all, your little cherry-pick assumes that events leading up to this newest extinction level event only relate to the US. Obviously NOT.

Secondly, for the several comprehension-ally challenged posters dragging their hairy knuckles around these forums, the greatest contributions to world-wide species extinction is Logging and Urbanization.

Tropical forests contain MORE than 1/2 of the Earth's species. Such habitat loss has been identified as the main threat to 85% of all species described in the IUCN's Red Lists. Humans have wiped out more than half of the world's old-growthl forests over the past 150 years and it's projected to increase to over 70% in less than 30 years.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/

Learning can be fun, kiddies!
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#1501344 --- 07/12/17 04:52 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 15770
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
http://wps.prenhall.com/wps/media/objects/1027/1052055/Regional_Updates/update30.htm

" Significant improvement in the quality of U.S. waters since enactment of the Clean Water Act has been due mainly to reductions in point-source pollution from industrial and municipal sources. Agricultural contamination of waters remains a major source of water pollution. Estimates by the US Environmental Protection Agency indicate that agriculture is the leading source of pollution of the nation's rivers, lakes, and wetlands, and among the leading sources of pollution of estuaries. The status of groundwaters is not as well known as that of surface waters. However, when groundwater pollution has been found, agriculture is most often cited as the source."
https://www.ecowatch.com/wotus-epa-clean-water-act-2449664043.html

Continuing its march toward elimination of key Clean Water Act protections, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) on Tuesday issued a formal notice of withdrawal of the Obama administration's rule defining which waters can be protected against pollution and destruction under federal law.

This is the first step in EPA administrator Scott Pruitt's plan to eliminate essential Clean Water Act protections for waterways across the country that have been in place since the 1970s.

Within the next few months, Pruitt is expected to take the more dangerous second step—adopting a narrow definition of "waters of the United States" (WOTUS) long sought by industry that will allow uncontrolled pollution and destruction of our nation's rivers, streams, lakes and wetlands.

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#1501354 --- 07/12/17 09:09 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1465
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Put they only plan to change what Obama changed in 2015, so your article is a little misleading.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-regulation-idUSKBN19I2L0
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#1501357 --- 07/12/17 09:14 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: Timbo]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1465
Loc: LOST IN SPACE


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/12/17 09:20 AM)
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#1501359 --- 07/12/17 09:25 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
Teonan Offline
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Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4768
Loc: West End
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck

Bigger question is is why the selective blindness?
Try ditching the disconnection. Everything is related.
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#1501363 --- 07/12/17 10:39 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: Teonan]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1465
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck

Bigger question is is why the selective blindness?
Try ditching the disconnection. Everything is related.
I'm not blind to anything. Humans have altered the face of the planet for thousands of years and will continue to do so. We have to determine what is acceptable and what is not. Playing the blame game will accomplish nothing because you all want the benefits of our modern society but refuse to accept the responsibility or make a sacrifice.
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#1501366 --- 07/12/17 11:10 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 15770
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Humans have altered the face of the planet for thousands of years and will continue to do so. We have to determine what is acceptable and what is not.
Yes a much smaller number of people for thousands of years with hand tools. It took millions of years for the human population to reach 1.6 billion people in 1900. Now we have 7 billion people and large machines. This can't go on at this pace forever without completely destroying our planet.

The world population was estimated to have reached 7.5 billion in April, 2017. The United Nations estimates it will further increase to 11.2 billion in the year 2100. World population has experienced continuous growth since the end of the Great Famine of 1315–17 and the Black Death in 1350, when it was near 370 million.

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#1501367 --- 07/12/17 11:44 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1465
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
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#1501368 --- 07/12/17 11:58 AM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 15770
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
It tells me we must work on consuming less. Do you agree?

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#1501369 --- 07/12/17 12:12 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1465
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
It tells me we must work on consuming less. Do you agree?
That would be totally un american grin I mean how would you expect someone to live without the fancy car, the big house, the boat and camper ? I mean people would actually be able to pay off all their credit card debt, maybe even pay off the mortgage. That is simply not the American way !!!!! And do you really think my neighbor should have to go to work without his 4x4 $60,000 pickup truck when he lives 2 blocks away ? RIDICULOUS


Edited by scwoodchuck (07/12/17 12:25 PM)
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#1501373 --- 07/12/17 12:26 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck

Bigger question is is why the selective blindness?
Try ditching the disconnection. Everything is related.
I'm not blind to anything. Humans have altered the face of the planet for thousands of years and will continue to do so. We have to determine what is acceptable and what is not. Playing the blame game will accomplish nothing because you all want the benefits of our modern society but refuse to accept the responsibility or make a sacrifice.

First of all, many millions of people (though I doubt you) make great personal sacrifices for the good of the planet every day. So you can ditch that lame argument.

Secondly, it's no blame-game. it's unequivocal hard science that establishes through peer review, a fleshed-out series of facts in order to correctly understand true cause-and-effect.

The only blame to be had is your intransigent denials in the face of mountains of irrefutable supporting evidence.
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#1501374 --- 07/12/17 12:29 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 15770
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
It tells me we must work on consuming less. Do you agree?
That would be totally un american grin I mean how would you expect someone to live without the fancy car, the big house, the boat and camper ? I mean people would actually be able to pay off all their credit card debt, maybe even pay off the mortgage. That is simply not the American way !!!!! And do you really think my neighbor should have to go to work without his 4x4 $60,000 pickup truck when he lives 2 blocks away ? RIDICULOUS
Your comments here make you sound like an environmentalist. Is that what you consider yourself?

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#1501375 --- 07/12/17 12:31 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: kyle585]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4768
Loc: West End
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
It tells me we must work on consuming less. Do you agree?
That would be totally un american grin I mean how would you expect someone to live without the fancy car, the big house, the boat and camper ? I mean people would actually be able to pay off all their credit card debt, maybe even pay off the mortgage. That is simply not the American way !!!!! And do you really think my neighbor should have to go to work without his 4x4 $60,000 pickup truck when he lives 2 blocks away ? RIDICULOUS
Your comments here make you sound like an environmentalist. Is that what you consider yourself?


** grin **
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#1501376 --- 07/12/17 12:35 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
It tells me we must work on consuming less. Do you agree?
That would be totally un american grin I mean how would you expect someone to live without the fancy car, the big house, the boat and camper ? I mean people would actually be able to pay off all their credit card debt, maybe even pay off the mortgage. That is simply not the American way !!!!! And do you really think my neighbor should have to go to work without his 4x4 $60,000 pickup truck when he lives 2 blocks away ? RIDICULOUS

And yet, it's a virtual certainty that the majority of those owners of massive, non-essential off-road Pigs, McMansions and powerboats are of the conservative bent. Those who flip the finger to the causes of environmental protection. Nor is it "un-American" to mind the impact your family has on the planet.

Canards all.
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#1501377 --- 07/12/17 12:38 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
It took millions of years for the human population to reach 1.6 billion people in 1900.

Uh, sorry can't let this one slide...

The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are from the Middle Paleolithic, about 195,000 years ago.
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#1501378 --- 07/12/17 12:41 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13470
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck

EVERYTHING.
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#1501385 --- 07/12/17 02:18 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 15770
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
It took millions of years for the human population to reach 1.6 billion people in 1900.

Uh, sorry can't let this one slide...

The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are from the Middle Paleolithic, about 195,000 years ago.
LOL. OK. I didn't do a lookup on it. I tried gassy's method of no research. grin

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#1501386 --- 07/12/17 02:20 PM Re: Seneca Meadows used as bad example in Malaysia [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 15770
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
And the average American consumes 32 times what someone consumes in a devoloping country. Tell you anything ?
It tells me we must work on consuming less. Do you agree?
That would be totally un american grin I mean how would you expect someone to live without the fancy car, the big house, the boat and camper ? I mean people would actually be able to pay off all their credit card debt, maybe even pay off the mortgage. That is simply not the American way !!!!! And do you really think my neighbor should have to go to work without his 4x4 $60,000 pickup truck when he lives 2 blocks away ? RIDICULOUS
I have read numerous times that the earth could not sustain this level of luxury for the current entire world population so the earth is already populated beyond the earth's carrying capacity.

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