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#1498173 --- 04/28/17 08:24 AM $53 MILLION school budget
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
as the article below points out the geneva city school had to exceed the tax cap last year and now the school system wants even more money

the canandaigua school system covers 80 square miles and all their students are bused

the geneva school system only covers 40 square miles and not all students are bused

strange that canandaigua can bus all their students and still spend far less per student than the geneva school system

must be the canandaigua buses run on sunshine and rain drops grin

guardian glass just got a $30 million reduction in their taxes

how much will the geneva school taxes go up with those two conditions?

Quote:
GENEVA — Residents get their chance to sound off on the city school district’s $48.825 million budget proposal at a public hearing tonight.

Susan Gray, the district’s director of business and finance, said officials will offer a PowerPoint presentation on the budget before taking comments and questions. The session starts at 6 p.m. in the high school library.

The budget would increase the tax levy by 1.95 percent, bringing it to $18.051 million. Because the state formula allows Geneva a tax increase of 0.34 percent, the district will need the approval of at least 60 percent of its voters May 19 to enact the budget.

If the district gets it, the tax rate will rise from $21.82 per $1,000 of assessed property value to $22.17. For a home assessed at $100,000, that equates to a $35 hike in school taxes.

If the budget fails, administrators can reassess the plan and hold another vote. If it fails a second time, the district would adopt a contingency budget.

The budget increases spending by about $2 million over the current fiscal year. It includes these cuts:

• A counselor’s position (through resignation). A behavioral psychologist will replace the position.

• A teacher (a teacher is relocating).

• Three teaching assistants.

• Reduced hours for one secretary.

The district will realize savings by replacing higher-paid retirees with new hires and through a $60,000 reduction in transportation expenses.

On the other side of the ledger, the district divided the proposed spending increase into two categories. The first, which totals $1.437 million, includes increases in the cost of debt service, insurance, salaries and BOCES; the second, which totals $613,219, includes additions Superintendent Trina Newton proposed April 9. Those additions include a cleaner, a groundskeeper, a full-time translator/interpreter, a social worker, another dual language teacher, and, possibly, a teacher evaluator.

In addition, administrators are proposing $300,000 worth of technology upgrades.

District officials say many of the additions restore items cut in previous years.

The school board unanimously approved the budget last month.
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#1498906 --- 05/17/17 08:04 AM Re: $53 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
with a reduction in student enrollment down by 300 students and cost per student at about $19,000

300 x $19,000 = $5,700,000

the savings per year should be about $5,700,000

why has the school budget not gone down by $5.7 million ?
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#1499311 --- 05/26/17 11:42 AM Re: $53 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
ScubaSteve78 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 270
Loc: Bottom of Seneca Lake
In 2014 40% of GCSD kids were living in defined poverty. 2017 it's 55%. Most graduates who go to college do not come back to Geneva or upstate New York because of employment opportunity and taxes. That leaves behind those stuck in the cycle of socio-economic poverty, a dwindling senior citizen population due to no housing and high taxes, and lower middle income families. Soon the taxes will be so high that instead of having 60% of the cities residential units as rentals, it will be closer to 75%. With the high taxes cutting into profits of landlords or in some cases negating them, the houses will be maintained even more poorly (meeting code and nothing more) and will slowly decline street by street until over half of Geneva looks like Colt Street.

Hold city council and the school board accountable.

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#1514631 --- 05/10/18 01:46 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: ScubaSteve78]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ScubaSteve78
In 2014 40% of GCSD kids were living in defined poverty. 2017 it's 55%. Most graduates who go to college do not come back to Geneva or upstate New York because of employment opportunity and taxes. That leaves behind those stuck in the cycle of socio-economic poverty, a dwindling senior citizen population due to no housing and high taxes, and lower middle income families. Soon the taxes will be so high that instead of having 60% of the cities residential units as rentals, it will be closer to 75%. With the high taxes cutting into profits of landlords or in some cases negating them, the houses will be maintained even more poorly (meeting code and nothing more) and will slowly decline street by street until over half of Geneva looks like Colt Street.

Hold city council and the school board accountable.



the school budget was just $48 million two years ago

now they want $56 million?

seems to be a nearly 17% increase in just two years

enrollment is down

LOWER the budget by 17%
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#1514636 --- 05/10/18 05:05 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
Do the math - $25K per student and they still can't read - 51% of third graders rated insufficient in English Language arts.

Now another capital project - it's "free" since we're getting state aid and using reserves from the capital account. Didn't the state aid and reserves come out of my pocket a year ago?

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#1514684 --- 05/13/18 09:12 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
764379255223 Offline
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Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Ontario County
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less
than $ 1 per week. That's a very small amount to pay to educate our young people and give them a "CHANCE" in life whether here or someplace else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#1514685 --- 05/13/18 02:25 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: 764379255223]
IHHSG Offline
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Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 113
Loc: 14456
Originally Posted By: 764379255223
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less
than $ 1 per week. That's a very small amount to pay to educate our young people and give them a "CHANCE" in life whether here or someplace else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But it's not just about the one-time tax increase. It's every year, year after year after year. All those "just an extra dollar a week" add up year after year after year. Every time there's a school budget vote citizens are threatened "we will have to go to an austerity budget" and "we'll have to cut programs" and "what's another few dollars a year when it's for the children?" Enough is enough. If enrollment is declining, there is no reason to increase the budget by millions a year.

Those young people you mention will ALL end up someplace else due to the ridiculously high taxes in the city.

The district needs to start making hard choices, starting with the outlandish salary that Trina Newton takes home.

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#1514688 --- 05/13/18 04:04 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
From: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html you can see that NY is way ahead of every other state including unionized states like Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Are our kids that much smarter? Try not to faint when you look at the $Benefits per pupil.

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#1514703 --- 05/14/18 02:08 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14295
Loc: CNY

NY State primary education ranks 31st, yet the rate of graduation is higher than at any point in state history. NY's secondary education ranks 14th, and 5th highest in the nation for advanced degrees, job placement and career salary.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/higher-education
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#1514708 --- 05/14/18 03:08 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
One interpretation is that we have made graduation so easy that anyone can do it. Certainly the Regents exams have been dumbed down since we took them. As far as higher education, there's no arguing that NY attracts a solid bench of out-of-state and foreign students, who go on to get great jobs in low tax states.

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#1514713 --- 05/14/18 04:50 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14295
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
One interpretation is that we have made graduation so easy that anyone can do it. Certainly the Regents exams have been dumbed down since we took them. As far as higher education, there's no arguing that NY attracts a solid bench of out-of-state and foreign students, who go on to get great jobs in low tax states.

WOW! Those are some rather broad and highly specific leaps of logic. I can do that too, you know. crazy
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#1514717 --- 05/14/18 05:29 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
Your last post shows that you ability.

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#1514783 --- 05/16/18 12:10 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: 764379255223]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 764379255223
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less
than $ 1 per week.


feel free to just write out a check for the nearly $7 million increase

nearly 70% of the properties in the city are OFF THE TAX ROLLS

the city taxpayers already pay three times more for property taxes and the school taxes are higher compared to all other schools in Ontario county

and they do not even get their trash picked up for their high taxes

they have to spend even more for that also

Quote:


County of Ontario
Municipality Tax Rate
Per $1000 AV


City of Canandaigua 6.31
City of Geneva 18.29
Town of Canandaigua 1.15
Town of Victor 0.72
Village of Victor 4.23

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#1514784 --- 05/16/18 12:12 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: 764379255223]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 764379255223
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less than $ 1 per week.


at the current rate in just over 7 years the school budget will exceed $100 million

hope all that money they spent to raise the gym ceiling will improve the graduation rates... whistle
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#1514802 --- 05/17/18 05:00 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
They just hired a business manager for $92K plus the perks - maybe she can figure it out.

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#1514807 --- 05/17/18 10:10 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
They just hired a business manager for $92K plus the perks - maybe she can figure it out.


The school system loves to spend taxpayer money
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#1514808 --- 05/17/18 10:14 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: 764379255223]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 764379255223
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less
than $ 1 per week.


Care to explain why the city of geneva has to offer the 'live where you work' program to entice people to buy a home inside the city limits?
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#1514810 --- 05/17/18 10:21 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 11415
Loc: Above ground
Question, if you saw a Chevrolet salesperson driving nothing but Ford, what does that say about Chevrolet?
I grew up in Ovid and went to South Seneca, one of their teacher sent his children to Geneva DeSales, is that a message that I'll take school district's money but I rather send my kids to a better school?

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#1514884 --- 05/19/18 04:55 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
If a charter school with no religious affiliations had taken over DeSales I would have been interested, given that my kids, in 8th grade, were sitting next to students that didn't even know their multiplication tables.

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#1514891 --- 05/20/18 03:25 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14295
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: 764379255223
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less than $ 1 per week.

at the current rate in just over 7 years the school budget will exceed $100 million whistle

Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results... EVER.

See, I can use large type size too. Your use of it however, doesn't magically make your assumptions accurate. whistle
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#1514892 --- 05/20/18 04:55 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
Blue may be closer to being correct than you may think, Timbo. The district's automatic pay ("step") increases, the rate of pension co-pay for the district (the teachers pay nothing after 3 years) and the health care rate all trend together and are fairly constant. I haven't checked his math, but there are few factors that exhibit a downward pressure on school costs. As the last vote indicates, the citizens think this is money worth spending.

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#1514894 --- 05/20/18 11:38 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14295
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Blue may be closer to being correct than you may think, Timbo. The district's automatic pay ("step") increases, the rate of pension co-pay for the district (the teachers pay nothing after 3 years) and the health care rate all trend together and are fairly constant. I haven't checked his math, but there are few factors that exhibit a downward pressure on school costs. As the last vote indicates, the citizens think this is money worth spending.

"May" is the working word, here, and bluezone is notorious for making ludicrous conclusions based on inane leaps of logic and a highly biased agenda, as she's once again doing in this instance.

So, I challenge bluezone or anyone else to try to make informed, accurate prognostications of the relevant financial numbers, seven years hence.



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#1514936 --- 05/23/18 04:54 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
I guess we'll have to wait seven years to see if Bluezone is right.

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#1514939 --- 05/23/18 10:02 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 764379255223
$35 per $100,000 equates for most people in Geneva to less
than $ 1 per week.


Less than $1 per week?

Must be you are not aware that the geneva school system qualifies for the federal free lunch program because nearly 60% of the students are at the poverty level

If their parents are unable to afford to buy their children lunch how do you expect them to come up with more money to pay higher school taxes?
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#1514940 --- 05/23/18 10:08 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo

So, I challenge bluezone or anyone else to try to make informed, accurate prognostications of the relevant financial numbers, seven years hence.[/size]


The larger the school budget grows the faster the total school budget increases even if under the state tax cap

2% of $56 million is much larger than 2% of $23 million

Simple math
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#1514943 --- 05/23/18 10:48 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
"May" is the working word, here, and bluezone is notorious for making ludicrous conclusions based on inane leaps of logic and a highly biased agenda, ,,,,


Is it true that the enrollment is down by 17%?

Is it true that the school budget increase over the past two years is 17%?

Seems to be a 34% increase even with enrollment down

With the enrollment down it should be easy to have a ZERO INCREASE in the school budget because the money NOT being spent on the students that left the district should cover any increase
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#1514944 --- 05/23/18 11:00 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
the


Go to your boss and say you want a 17% increase in your pay BUT you will be doing 17% LESS work for that 17% pay increase

Expect your boss to LAUGH you out of his/her office
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#1515292 --- 06/05/18 01:26 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo

So, I challenge bluezone or anyone else to try to make informed, accurate prognostications of the relevant financial numbers, seven years hence.[/size]



You know that the school budget has increased 17% over the past two years

now just use those same numbers going out 7 years and you will see that the school budget will reach $100 MILLION if the current trend continues

the school employees vote for all increases in the budget because it benefits them

the school budget and the employee (pay, benefits, healthcare, pensions...) budget should be seperated and voted on seperately

the employees and their familes should not be allowed to vote themselves an increase


Quote:
Quote:
Seventy percent or more of our annual budgets go to personnel costs, including the pensions, health care and salaries of our teachers and staff, past and present.

We face state employee pension, workers compensation and healthcare costs for the upcoming year that continue to overwhelm school budgets

Trina Newton
Geneva CSD



Quote:
Trina Newton - As far as the issues, when I look at the financial piece, healthcare is just out of control. When I take a look at what’s driving the budgets, it’s not what should be driving the budgets.

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#1515698 --- 06/16/18 07:42 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Blue may be closer to being correct than you may think, Timbo. The district's automatic pay ("step") increases, the rate of pension co-pay for the district (the teachers pay nothing after 3 years) and the health care rate all trend together and are fairly constant. I haven't checked his math, but there are few factors that exhibit a downward pressure on school costs. As the last vote indicates, the citizens think this is money worth spending.

"May" is the working word, here, and bluezone is notorious for making ludicrous conclusions based on inane leaps of logic and a highly biased agenda, as she's once again doing in this instance.

So, I challenge bluezone or anyone else to try to make informed, accurate prognostications of the relevant financial numbers, seven years hence.


you have had plenty of time to run the basic numbers

double check the numbers below - it is simple math wink

if the current increases to the school budget over the past two years were drawn out over the next 7 years the numbers below indicate a $100 million school budget in just over 7 years

starting with the current $56 million school budget

the next years budget would be $60,760,000 if the same increases were applied

year #2) $65,924,600
year #3) $71,528,191
year #4) $77,608,087
year #5) $84,204,774
year #6) $91,362,179
year #7) $99,127,964
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#1515699 --- 06/16/18 07:52 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
bluezone is notorious for making ludicrous conclusions based on inane leaps of logic


you have been given the numbers

find fault in the numbers and point it out

yawn...
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#1515782 --- 06/18/18 07:01 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14295
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
bluezone is notorious for making ludicrous conclusions based on inane leaps of logic

you have been given the numbers

find fault in the numbers and point it out

yawn...

Brilliant long-after-the-fact analysis, there. Even a broken clock's right twice a day.

In the words of Tacitus: "As the last vote indicates, the citizens think this is money worth spending."

< even bigger yawn >

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#1515847 --- 06/19/18 04:27 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
And if you project this growth rate over 20 years it's even more dramatic, but it relies on some pretty squishy assumptions, like nothing else changing.

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#1515856 --- 06/19/18 05:46 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Brilliant long-after-the-fact analysis, there.


was just waiting for you to present your facts

has the enrollment dropped by 17%?
did the school budget increase by 17% over the past two years?


yawn...


Originally Posted By: Timbo
"As the last vote indicates, the citizens think this is money worth spending."


the school employees voted for the budget increase as it benefits them
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#1515869 --- 06/20/18 04:41 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
Just how do you come up with the numbers to support that absurd statement? Do you think it's really possible that a 514 to 156 victory was due to school employees voting while the rest of the community stayed home? If that's true, shame on us.

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#1515887 --- 06/20/18 09:01 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Tacitus]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 116
Loc: new york state
There are so many school employees that cant vote for this budget because they dont live in the district so even if the ones that did all voted, it would not be that overwhelming. I think the problem may have been the number of tax payers that did not get out there to vote for this budget. That is just my thought......

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#1515889 --- 06/20/18 09:03 AM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: roundtable]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 116
Loc: new york state
As I think more on this, maybe that number in favor to pass the vote had a lot of non school employees thinking it should happen.? Anyone else think this may have been the case?

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#1515975 --- 06/21/18 04:11 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
First, if you are the school district, you have to ask yourself who your likely yes votes are; generally these are the parents and grandparents who have kids in school.

Then you need a way to make sure those yes votes get to the polls, so you schedule concerts, plays, and athletic events on the day of the vote. You might even mention that the polls are open when you introduce the event.

Finally, you mail out a newsletter just before the vote extolling the wonderful achievements students have made, while carefully avoiding any reference to the test data that tells an entirely different story.

If there is a capital project, you explain how the project is "free" because the local share comes from the capital reserve account, as if this isn't money that you were taxed for in previous years.

Make no mention of the budget impact that additional square feet will have on operating costs.

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#1515994 --- 06/22/18 02:12 PM Re: $56 MILLION school budget [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: newsman38


Geneva School Reserves Overfunded: NYS Audit

Geneva City School District - Reserves (2018M-51)


Audit Objective
• Determine whether the Board reasonably and transparently financed reserves.


Key Findings
• The Board has not adopted a reserve policy.
The Board did not include provisions to fund reserves in its annual budgets.
Seven reserves with balances totaling $9.4 million (72 percent of total reserves) are overfunded by $7.8 million and potentially unnecessary.

Key Recommendations

The Board should adopt a reserve policy.
Appropriately budget to fund reserves.
Determine if the amounts reserved are necessary, reasonable and in compliance with statutory requirements.


Released: June 22, 2018 -- [read complete report - pdf]
Local Government and School Accountability Contact Information:

Phone: (518) 474-4037; Email: localgov@osc.ny.gov
Address: Office of the State Comptroller, Division of Local Government and School Accountability
110 State Street, 12th Floor; Albany, NY 12236






Originally Posted By: Timbo
bluezone is notorious for making ludicrous conclusions


miss timbo make sure you tell the AG that they have false information

did the school budget even need any increase this past year?

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