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#1495729 --- 02/24/17 09:52 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Oogie]
Geneva_grl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1313
Loc: G-Town
All of the Presidents of HWS have lived in that house. Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.

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#1495797 --- 02/25/17 04:56 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Geneva_grl]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
All of the Presidents of HWS have lived in that house. Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.


is it true that during his time at HWS that $6 million worth of property on south main street alone has been taken OFF the tax rolls when the college purchased those properties?

could this be one of the reasons why geneva has the highest poverty rate in all of ontario county?
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#1495837 --- 02/26/17 11:17 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Geneva_grl]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
All of the Presidents of HWS have lived in that house. Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.


is it true that he/hws wanted to sue the city of geneva for trying to bring forth the benefits assessment district that would give relief to the over taxed homeowners in the city of geneva all while planning a $25 million performance center in his name?

Quote:

County of Ontario
Municipality Tax Rate
Per $1000 AV



City of Canandaigua 6.31
City of Geneva 18.29
Town of Canandaigua 1.15
Town of Victor 0.72
Village of Victor 4.23



strange that HWS has a new $25 million performance center but just across the street you have children living in poverty

explain the logic in that?
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#1495896 --- 02/27/17 08:14 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Jeff Peters Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 1004
Loc: Geneva
HWS was not going to sue, but they were going to fight it in court. And they were joined by every church and most of the not-for-profits in the city. The hospital hired its own lawyers.

What killed the plan you were talking about was the fact that not all homeowners would have gotten a lower tax rate. As an example, anyone living on a corner lot would have seen their taxes go up. At least a couple of Council members said that unless every home owner paid less in tax, they would not vote for the benefit assessment plan.

To eliminate poverty, you need jobs.

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#1495904 --- 02/28/17 08:28 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
DeReRustica Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 287
Loc: Boondox, Seneca Co.
The high taxes in the city are due to the city providing expensive services to Town of Geneva residents, but not getting the tax revenue to cover the costs.

One solution would be to dissolve the city and combine it into the town. Lyons and Seneca Falls did it, Rushville is working on it. The state is offering big incentives to consolidate government functions. Every small-government proponent should be all over this idea.

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#1496103 --- 03/03/17 07:40 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was not going to sue, but they were going to fight it in court.


HWS was resistant to all property owners paying their fair share of city services?
how honorable of HWS...

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
And they were joined by every church and most of the not-for-profits in the city. The hospital hired its own lawyers.


and there is a 25% poverty rate in the city of geneva
must be all those entities do not realize that fact

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
What killed the plan you were talking about


are you suggesting that resistance from HWS and the other 60% tax exempt entities did not 'kill' the plan?

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
What killed the plan you were talking about was the fact that not all homeowners would have gotten a lower tax rate. As an example, anyone living on a corner lot would have seen their taxes go up.


taxes would have gone down for all taxpaying homeowners

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
At least a couple of Council members said that unless every home owner paid less in tax, they would not vote for the benefit assessment plan.


do you agree with that flawed theory?

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
To eliminate poverty, you need jobs.


and how many businesses want to locate in a city where nearly 70% of the properties are off the tax rolls?

Quote:
County of Ontario
Municipality Tax Rate
Per $1000 AV

City of Canandaigua 6.31
City of Geneva 18.29
Town of Canandaigua 1.15
Town of Victor 0.72
Village of Victor 4.23

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496544 --- 03/12/17 04:08 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
At least a couple of Council members said that unless every home owner paid less in tax, they would not vote for the benefit assessment plan.


so lets see if we understand why a 'couple of council members' voted it down

if all property owners (100%) pay into the city budget then ALL the current non tax exempt taxpayers (about 30%) taxes would go DOWN

not sure why the taxes would go up for the (about 30%) current non tax exempt property homeowners if ALL (100%) property owners paid into the city budget

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496547 --- 03/12/17 04:28 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
What killed the plan you were talking about was the fact that not all homeowners would have gotten a lower tax rate.


the taxes would have gone down for all current property owners
their benefits assessment amount would have been applied


Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
As an example, anyone living on a corner lot would have seen their taxes go up.


their taxes would have gone down

their benefits assessment may have been higher compared to a property owner not on a corner lot

but there is a simple solution -

either

the frontage on the corner lot could have the full benefits asseessment applied
and the side street portion of the corner lot could have had a lower benefits assessment applied - at 80%, 70%, 60% or 50%... of the benefits assessment

or

the total frontage and side street portion could be totaled and calculated not at 100% of the benefits assessment but at a lower rate - 90%, 80%, 70%...

a simple fix that would have allowed ALL property owners to share the cost of city services
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496576 --- 03/13/17 05:51 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Jeff Peters Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 1004
Loc: Geneva
The only service I know the City supplies to the Town is that some (not all) Town residents do get city water. The agreement is decades old and difference in rates is being done away with. Seneca Falls and Lyons were Villages and Geneva is a City, it is much more complicated to dissolve a City.

HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage. But it was not only HWS, the Station, Geneva General, and every not-for-profit was involved and they did not want this charge either. The pastors of both the Roman Catholic and Presbyterian churches made appearances in front of Council in opposition and others contacted their own Council members. Some of them actually said that they would have to withdraw from community programs or even close their doors if this went through.

There were various rates discussed. One for single family owner occupied, one for multiple family residences, corner properties getting a "discount" on one of the street fronts, and a special rate for other not-for-profits. And what about HWS and their corner properties? They had to be included or the district would be illegal.

All of this became too complicated to be workable.

Some property owners would have paid more under this plan. This is not theoretical as specific properties were actually identified.

Here is an example I knew of: an elderly couple living in a multiple family residence on a corner lot, one side of which was a double lot. They did not have the rental unit rented, but they were still listed as multiple family on the tax rolls. Because of their age, military service, etc. they were taxed at less than assessed value, but they would have gone away with the benefit district.

Some members of the Council said they would support this benefit district only if every one's taxes decreased and that was not going to happen, but in the end it was the complexity of trying to figure out who what pay which rates that defeated this plan.

I hope this answers some of the questions.

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#1496586 --- 03/14/17 09:29 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Here is an example I knew of: an elderly couple living in a multiple family residence on a corner lot, one side of which was a double lot. They did not have the rental unit rented, but they were still listed as multiple family on the tax rolls. Because of their age, military service, etc. they were taxed at less than assessed value, but they would have gone away with the benefit district.


so the city dropped the plan because one home owner living in a multi family did want to rent out their home... sound illogical whistle

options

1) rent out the other half of the home to pay for their benefits assessment - one or two months worth of rent would have paid for their benefits assessment and the other 10 months of rent would have been going into their pockets as profit

2) sell the home and move to a single family home not on a corner lot
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496591 --- 03/14/17 09:46 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


but yet they spent $25 million for a performance center, spent millions to build their football field / stadium / athletic center, spent millions buying taxable properties on south main street, hamilton street, st. clair and taking them off the tax rolls, spent a large sum of money to build a 10 foot tall wrought iron fence with large brick colums (every 10 feet) around the perimeter of their campus

have hws sell those properties they have concerns with and put them back on the tax rolls if their $200 million endowment is in such financial crisis

Note - 25% poverty rate in the city of geneva
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496593 --- 03/14/17 10:02 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA

Originally Posted By: Libertas
Per the Democrat and Chronicle...

"White Plains residents pay the highest total property taxes per capita among cities in New York, while Binghamton has the highest effective property-tax rate in the state, a review today found.

Albany had the highest effective property-tax rate — which is the total raised through property taxes divided by adjusted full value of property — among large cities at 1.22 percent. Overall among cities, Binghamton led the pack at 2.51 percent, the Empire Center for State Policy found.

Among cities, White Plains residents paid the highest per capita taxes at $1,898, and the Westchester County city also had the highest per capita spending at $3,716.

Rye ranked second in property taxes per capita at $1,500 and Yonkers ranked third at $1,381. They are all in Westchester, which has the highest property taxes in the nation. The city of Rochester ranked eight at $2,675 per capita, the group said.

Geneva, Ontario County, had the highest per capita debt at $3,318.

The group calculated the rates through its Benchmarking New York online tool.

“New Yorkers are paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, and Benchmarking New York is a powerful tool that lets them see exactly how their taxes compare to those in other communities,” said Tim Hoefer, executive director of the conservative, Albany-based group.

It found that Lewis County in northern New York had the highest expenditure among counties in New York, at $4,659 per capita. Westchester ranked fourth at $2,670, while Broome County ranked fifth at $2,655.

The small Adirondacks town of Newcomb had the highest expenditure and taxes per capita among New York towns. Among villages, the Fire Island village of Saltaire had the highest expenditures and taxes per capita — a whopping $58,566 per home owner, which totals about 37 year-round residents."


Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496595 --- 03/14/17 10:20 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


HWS is worried about a 'street benefit'

the local newspaper had an article that HWS has had numerous calls PER DAY for false fire alarms because HWS does not want to put in a system to root out the false alarm calls

how about the city charge HWS a $20,000 charge PER false alarm calls

a false alarm call puts the fire/emergency responders at risk, it puts at risk ACTUAL emergencies situtations that should be handled over a false alarm from HWS

10 false alarms per day from HWS at $20,000 per call multiplied by 365 days in year = $73,000,000

10 x $20,000 X 365 = $73,000,000

the city could give HWS a volume discount whistle and only charge them for half or $36,500,00

that pays for the yearly city budget with a sizable surplus

or HWS could spend some money to correct their false alarm problems and it would save the city money and not put emergency responders at risk
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496753 --- 03/18/17 11:56 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Geneva_grl]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.


howz about this idea

have hws president gearan set up a small fire station on hws campus

when ever there is an emergency on hws campus their fire station will be the first responder

the response time will be almost immediate because they will be located on campus and not the other side of the city like the current fire stations

the city fire station response time is greatly reduced because they have to tend with traffic either on main/south main or pulteney street - both high traffic streets --- the traffic problems are a result of hws not providing enough parking for their staff and students (whoda thunk whistle)


if the hws fire department needs assistance after arriving on a call then the hws 'fire chief' can call to the city with details

this would eliminate false alarms by hws

this would allow the city responders to deal with actual emergencies for taxpayers and not waste their time with hws false alarms

the city would not be putting their staff at risk with hws false alarms

savings on gas, wear and tear on city vehicles

hws could pay for their own fire staff, their fire trucks, their equipment, their building, their pensions, their healthcare, their training, their 911 call center... and the city would save money

all city councel members should move forward with this idea as it will save city taxpayers money
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496788 --- 03/19/17 02:29 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13604
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May

did you speak with the 55% at the poverty level?
Where did you come up with 55%, BZ?

He's had the facts categorically proven to him, time, and time again, that it is NOT 55%.

Misrepresenting the actual facts simply plays to his ridiculously fallacious narrative.
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#1496922 --- 03/22/17 09:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1497087 --- 03/28/17 07:20 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.



herez an idea

the geneva school district is starting to spend $30 million to replace the sports fields

rather then spend the $30 million just have hws let the local school use their sports fields and stadium

the cost to bus the students over to hws during the year for sports should be only about $20,000 or less per year

if the $30 million is divided over 30 years than that would be about $1 million per year for the cost of the 'newer' fields

the local school district would save around $980,000 per year ($1 million - $20,000 bus costs = $980,000 savings per year to the local school) by not spending the $30 million for the 'newer' fields

hws has more than enough sports fields to share

geneva 2020 is not just about books but also could be about sports improvement by hws shairing their fields

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1497298 --- 04/02/17 09:29 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.



herez an idea

the geneva school district is starting to spend $30 million to replace the sports fields

rather then spend the $30 million just have hws let the local school use their sports fields and stadium

the cost to bus the students over to hws during the year for sports should be only about $20,000 or less per year

if the $30 million is divided over 30 years than that would be about $1 million per year for the cost of the 'newer' fields

the local school district would save around $980,000 per year ($1 million - $20,000 bus costs = $980,000 savings per year to the local school) by not spending the $30 million for the 'newer' fields


the $20,000 in bus costs per year would actually be less when you factor in that there would be no ongoing costs for the upkeep, utilities, mowing... of the local schools sport field and stadium

the local school could save even more by sharing hws sport field and stadium
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1497321 --- 04/03/17 07:45 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


and how much taxable property have they taken off the tax rolls when they acquired those homes?

$6 million, $8 million or even higher?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1497517 --- 04/07/17 08:28 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32045
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


hws could have made a 'donation' close to what taxes would have been to help out the city taxpapers

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Some property owners would have paid more under this plan. This is not theoretical as specific properties were actually identified.


their property tax bill would have went down because all property owners would be sharing the cost

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Here is an example I knew of: an elderly couple living in a multiple family residence on a corner lot, one side of which was a double lot. They did not have the rental unit rented, but they were still listed as multiple family on the tax rolls. Because of their age, military service, etc. they were taxed at less than assessed value, but they would have gone away with the benefit district.


they were still paying nearly 3 times more compared to canandaigua per year so where were the councilors all those years?

canandaigua offers trash pick-up with their lower taxes so where were the councilors then to help out the geneva taxpayer?

the city has a 'live where you work' program
just use that money to cover that one homeowner

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Some members of the Council said they would support this benefit district only if every one's taxes decreased and that was not going to happen, but in the end it was the complexity of trying to figure out who what pay which rates that defeated this plan.


so when the city taxpayers have paid nearly 3 times more in property taxes per year compared to canandaigua for less services were where those few councilors then?

where were the few councilors when the city taxpayers were paying double for the duplicate 911 service for many years?

where were the few city councilors when hws took countless properties off the tax rolls leading to higher taxes for everyone else?

...
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