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#1511976 --- 01/05/18 04:57 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
The "neighbors" ("community" might be another term) had seen very few weddings, but those that occurred were usually on weekends, frequently during the summer months when HWS was not in session. The promoter is asking for the opportunity to host large events at any time, which is a significant departure from current use.

There are two issues: how do the congregants of Trinity continue to worship, and what to do with this property. They are NOT irrevocably linked, as the congregants could elect to join the other, growing, congregation at St. Peter's. If this issue is resolved, then the building issue (turning it into apartments) is easier to accept.

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#1511978 --- 01/05/18 05:47 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
There are two issues: how do the congregants of Trinity continue to worship, and what to do with this property. They are NOT irrevocably linked, as the congregants could elect to join the other, growing, congregation at St. Peter's.


would it be correct that parking at st. peters is limited?

a more logical approach would be for the congregation of st. peters to join the trinity congregration and use the trinity for both of them.

they will now both have ample parking

st. peters building could be used as the new site for the developer instead of the trinity building

homes near st. peters could be bought (torn down or moved) and a parking lot be made at that location

trinity needs $1.5 million in repairs

if st. peters sold for $2 million to the developer it would cover the repair costs at trinity

st. peters does not need any repair so a $2 million sales price should be fair to the developer

two problems solved

would you agree?

the neighbors on south main st may like that idea better
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#1511997 --- 01/06/18 05:32 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
Parking at St. Peter's is not an issue since most of the usage is on Sunday, not at random times throughout the week, and they can access the parking in the lot off Geneva Street which is empty on Sunday.

St. Peter's also conducts two services. To extend your illogical process, I'm sure the neighbors on S. Main would be fine with an events center that limited its events to 60 people, but ran all day - say, 4 sessions of a wedding reception. St. Peter's has a growing congregation, while Trinity's is shrinking. Is it easier to move 60 people (tops) or over 300?

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#1512000 --- 01/06/18 07:23 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Parking at St. Peter's is not an issue since most of the usage is on Sunday, not at random times throughout the week,

Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Is it easier to move 60 people (tops) or over 300?


if 300 attend on sunday with two per car then that would mean parking for 150 cars?
how does that not impact the neighbors near st peters if all the parking is mostly on the street?

Originally Posted By: Tacitus
they can access the parking in the lot off Geneva Street which is empty on Sunday.


are you refering to the city parking lot?

if so then that would mean there is not enough parking for st peters

if a large gathering occurred at st peters on any other day besides sunday would that not have a large impact on the neighbhors in that area because the city parking lot would be largely utilized?

Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I'm sure the neighbors on S. Main would be fine with an events center that limited its events to 60 people


when trinity had a full congregation were the gatherings around 60 or far greater?
the s main neighbors had little concern when the gatherings were far greater than 60 at trinity

Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Is it easier to move 60 people (tops) or over 300?


move?
the building is not going to be moved

the people attending the services could easily drive to the south main street trinity location

if 60 more were added to st peters services then were would the additional 30-60 parking spaces come from?

Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I'm sure the neighbors on S. Main would be fine with an events center that limited its events to 60 people


if the project does not move forward it may likely turn into a frat house
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#1512023 --- 01/06/18 01:21 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14295
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Not so easily solved, I say.
so where is your solution?

timbo - you have had 4 days for a solution and have failed to present one

Unlike some, I prefer to hold my tongue until greater examination allows for good, workable solutions. grin
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#1512028 --- 01/06/18 02:37 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
Blue, I see your problem: you're trying to compare church services at St. Peter's with 24 / 7 events center activity at Trinity. I concede that St. Peter's would be unsuitable as an event center. That doesn't mean Trinity isn't also unsuitable as well.

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#1512033 --- 01/06/18 03:35 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
you're trying to compare church services at St. Peter's with 24 / 7 events center activity at Trinity.


Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I'm sure the neighbors on S. Main would be fine with an events center that limited its events to 60 people


it appears you want to restrict usage at trinity by the number of cars that can be parked in their on site parking lot - about 60

should that also apply to other establishments?

HWS does not have enough on site parking for their larger football,lacrosse, soccer... games

should their events be limited to the amount of on site parking they have available?

HWS has overwhelmed the south main street parking area with their frat homes, college offices and dorms

should they be limited by the amount of on site parking they provide?

St. Peters lacks ample on site parking for 300 members

should they be required to buy land and provide ample parking for their 300 members?

if they fail to do so should they stop their events?

it was written in the times that the attorney that opposes this idea has 3 apartment buildings on south main that all lack any on site parking

should be allowed?

the trinity situation is complex

hopefully a compromise can be reached to preserve the structure
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#1512042 --- 01/06/18 04:18 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
As apartments.

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#1512044 --- 01/06/18 04:26 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
As apartments.


how many apartments?
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#1512045 --- 01/06/18 04:32 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I prefer to hold my tongue


is that your new years resolution?

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1512057 --- 01/06/18 05:25 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
As apartments.


would require an egress/fire exit for each apartment on the exterior wall

second story apartments would require a stairway to teh ground

very expensive if the walls may approach a 2 foot thickness in some spots

very unattractive

all the stain glass windows would need to be removed and safety glass installed

very expensive to have large windows custom made that size and have them installed

the electrical, plummbing and drains could not be run inside the stone walls

any drains in the floor would require a trench be cut into the floor

heating and air conditioning is a challenge for stone walls

wood frame structures are less of a challenge and less of an expense

just a few items needing to be addressed with apartment conversion
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#1512101 --- 01/07/18 04:56 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
All of which, and more, would be required of a facility that hosts 200+ people. Don't forget ADA compliance.

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#1512103 --- 01/07/18 07:59 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
All of which, and more, would be required of a facility that hosts 200+ people. Don't forget ADA compliance.


incorrect

the building can currently host 200+ people as it relates to egress/fire exits
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#1512104 --- 01/07/18 08:09 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
As apartments.


the leadership of the trinity have said they looked at all viable options and apartments are not possible

do you believe the leadership of the church are going to withhold information if apartments were an option?

remember they are the leadership of a church

those that are against this may want to get money together to purchase the trinity and spend large amounts of money to convert it to apartments

before you even put up one piece of drywall to convert it to apartments you would need to spend $1.5 million on the needed repairs

unless you want a frat house at that location
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#1512107 --- 01/07/18 08:54 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
As apartments.


if they were to convert some of the area to a small coffee shop, sub shop, pizza shop, grocery store... or some other needed venue to cater to the HWS students/neighbors that would allow them to get the money to make the needed repairs would that be acceptable to the neighbors?
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#1512176 --- 01/08/18 06:04 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
As I stated originally, I think the this issue is actually 2 questions, what to do to keep the building, and what to do to keep the congregation in the building. I think the congregation is assuming both have to happen when they argue for an events center, while I think you can preserve the outside of the building via an apartment conversion that has little impact on the neighborhood. I'm not a neighbor, and I don't claim to speak for them. I think a coffee, sub or pizza shop would be likely to fail given the competition nearby and on campus, nor would it generate enough income to cover repairs.

The fact that a congregation of 60 (and dwindling) needs $1.5 million to make basic repairs speaks volumes.

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#1512180 --- 01/08/18 06:41 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
while I think you can preserve the outside of the building via an apartment conversion that has little impact on the neighborhood


if it were converted to apartments

20 possible apartments?

10 smaller apartments (1 bedroom) with possibly 1 parking space needed
10 larger apartements(2 bedroom) with possibly 2 parking spaces needed

total parking would be about 30 or more for tenants
excluding visitors coming to see the tenants

church may need around 40-60?

their parking lot has exceeded the 60 spaces

reduce the amount of apartments down to 10 or 15?

the parking lot is still exceeding capacity
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#1512195 --- 01/08/18 01:37 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 234
RE-calculate using 0 for church parking and you're all set.

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#1512252 --- 01/09/18 04:22 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
As apartments.


senior citizens housing?

some of their members may have an interest in living there

possible funding from NYS?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1512825 --- 01/30/18 10:01 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
the geneva historical society needs more space
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